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Kitsuki
15-06-2008, 20:28:50
I was staggered to find out today that only 23% of Americans have a passport... Do you guys not go abroad...? :o

Oerdin
15-06-2008, 20:44:25
A great many Americans never do leave the country which helps to explain why so many of them are so god damned ignorant of the rest of the world.

JM^3
15-06-2008, 20:51:17
I have been to Canada, that is about it.

One thing is that we can travel (or at least use to be able to) over quite a large amount of territory without a passport.

JM

Asher
15-06-2008, 20:54:03
Yes, not every country is a tiny spec like the UK.

protein
15-06-2008, 21:06:08
if you are american and not interested in culture, there's enough to keep you occupied for a lifetime of holidays inside the usa.

LoD
15-06-2008, 21:12:21
Not every country is a vast wildland devoid of human life like Canada.

Kitsuki
15-06-2008, 21:33:49
Originally posted by Asher
Yes, not every country is a tiny spec like the UK.

The UK is a very diverse country though - probably on a par with the USA...

Dyl Ulenspiegel
15-06-2008, 21:36:22
It is also a vast wildland devoid of human life.

Asher
15-06-2008, 21:58:41
Originally posted by Kitsuki
The UK is a very diverse country though - probably on a par with the USA...

You've got to be shitting me.

Which parts of the US have you been to?

Asher
15-06-2008, 21:59:55
Originally posted by LoD
Not every country is a vast wildland devoid of human life like Canada.
If you don't like wilderness, that's your own damn fault. Canada is a large, beautiful country and the UK is a tiny, crowded country. Take your pick, jackass.

Oerdin
15-06-2008, 22:21:05
I hate how the current government has made it so you have to have a passport to visit Canada and Mexico. Previously you could travel all over the continent without a passport.

JM^3
16-06-2008, 00:08:27
Yeah, expect a lot more people to get passports.

JM

KrazyHorse
16-06-2008, 02:00:51
I never had a passport until I was 23. Not that unusual. The only real reason I would have needed a passport up until then would have been to travel to a totally different continent.

Drake Tungsten
16-06-2008, 05:46:25
if you are american and not interested in culture, there's enough to keep you occupied for a lifetime of holidays inside the usa.

There's more than enough culture in America to keep you occupied for a lifetime, as well.

Vincent
16-06-2008, 05:55:03
dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 06:36:20
Originally posted by Asher
You've got to be shitting me.

Which parts of the US have you been to?

Look, this thread was not supposed to be some crude anti-American bashing - I am genuinely curious as to why so few Americans travel abroad.

I am going to the USA for the first time this summer (a month traveling up and down the east coast.) But I have travelled extensively across Europe, Russia, India, South-East Asia, the Middle East and Australia before now.

In the UK I think quite a high value is placed on traveling - it's seen as a very worthwhile thing in and of itself.

Although the US is a fairly diverse country, I fail to believe that it can be so varied that it negates the value of seeing the rest of the world...

JM^3
16-06-2008, 06:41:38
I didn't think Russia was ever part of the empire?

JM

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 06:48:18
Neither was most of Europe, but we did save them from world wars on three occasions... ;)

St Petersburg and Moscow are particularly worth visiting.

C.G.B. Spender
16-06-2008, 06:51:39
I've been to Rotterdam

MoSe
16-06-2008, 07:39:21
I think I was required to get a passport when I visited UK and Spain as a teenager.
I didn't renew it and I don't have one since

As I never left europe, I am now in the same condition of a US citizen wrt this thread topic: an ID card would be enough to go to all the places I've visited, and in most of them I wouldn't even need to show it, now.

Funko
16-06-2008, 08:08:12
An American without a passport could have travelled as far as a European who's only travelled within Europe.

And looking at the thread above, eg. MoSe.

C.G.B. Spender
16-06-2008, 08:15:13
MoSe is no European, he's Italian!

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 08:36:50
Originally posted by Funko
An American without a passport could have travelled as far as a European who's only travelled within Europe.

And looking at the thread above, eg. MoSe.

Assuming no air travel.

Oerdin
16-06-2008, 09:42:17
In the US, until very recently, you could travel North America and even most of Central America & the Caribbean without a passport. That included air travel.

protein
16-06-2008, 10:16:19
Originally posted by Kitsuki
The UK is a very diverse country though - probably on a par with the USA...
in terms of history, multiculturalism and high-brow culture, london is probably more diverse than america. but in terms of intesting places to travel, america wins hands down. london is exciting and vibrant but is it as exciting and vibrant as new york or hollywood? dunno.

this is from recent experience travelling to almost every county in the uk and only just racing through a handful of states in america.

i recently went to loch ness, which is very nice, but compare that with the grand canyon. padstow is lovely but compare that to san fransisco.

we've got thorpe park, america has disney. we have the isle of man, america has the carribean.

driving through britain in the summer is beautiful but driving into wyoming in the spring actually put a tear in my eye.

if you argued that america was as diverse as europe i'd agree, then you've got paris, prague, the alps, venice, berlin, the mediterranean and so on.

C.G.B. Spender
16-06-2008, 10:25:00
And Zurich!

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 10:26:40
Originally posted by protein


this is from recent experience travelling to almost every county in the uk and only just racing through a handful of states in america.

i recently went to loch ness, which is very nice, but compare that with the grand canyon. padstow is lovely but compare that to san fransisco.

we've got thorpe park, america has disney. we have the isle of man, america has the carribean.

driving through britain in the summer is beautiful but driving into wyoming in the spring actually put a tear in my eye.

if you argued that america was as diverse as europe i'd agree, then you've got paris, prague, the alps, venice, berlin, the mediterranean and so on.

Perhaps so, but travel is also about experiencing different cultures and societies, meeting different people, understanding other world views and much more.

I suppose my own penchant for that, and also for preferring places with a little more history, probably biases me against people who don't seem so keen to travel.

Oerdin
16-06-2008, 10:29:37
I've never heard of thorpe park. I'll have to visit it next time I'm in the UK.

Oerdin
16-06-2008, 10:30:57
Originally posted by Kitsuki
Perhaps so, but travel is also about experiencing different cultures and societies, meeting different people, understanding other world views and much more.

I suppose my own penchant for that, and also for preferring places with a little more history, probably biases me against people who don't seem so keen to travel.

I agree foreign travel is great and I wish more Americans would do it but given how the dollar just keeps sliding it would seem fewer and fewer people can afford to travel abroad these days.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 10:59:04
Originally posted by Oerdin
I agree foreign travel is great and I wish more Americans would do it but given how the dollar just keeps sliding it would seem fewer and fewer people can afford to travel abroad these days.

On the plus side, I'm paying a pittance for spending a month in the states...

MoSe
16-06-2008, 11:05:00
Originally posted by C.G.B. Spender
MoSe is no European, he's Italian!

I'm eeewwww-raw-peon

C.G.B. Spender
16-06-2008, 11:25:40
zug zug

Asher
16-06-2008, 11:45:43
Originally posted by Kitsuki
Look, this thread was not supposed to be some crude anti-American bashing - I am genuinely curious as to why so few Americans travel abroad.

I am going to the USA for the first time this summer

Thought so. Carry on.

Yet another ignorant UKer who hasn't seen the other parts of world and sees fit to judge it.

Why does this song and dance sound familiar if not hypocritical?
:shoot:

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 11:57:25
Originally posted by Asher
Thought so. Carry on.

Yet another ignorant UKer who hasn't seen the other parts of world and sees fit to judge it.

Why does this song and dance sound familiar if not hypocritical?
:shoot:

Hasn't seen the other parts of the world? I gave you a long list of all of the places I have been - and I am going to spend 6 weeks in South America next year to boot - then I will have been to every continent...

As above Asher - it may disappoint you to know that this wasn't a flame thread - I am genuinely curious about this - and given there are people from all over the world posting here I thought it would be a good place to ask.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 12:01:47
Originally posted by Kitsuki

I am going to the USA for the first time this summer (a month traveling up and down the east coast.) But I have travelled extensively across Europe, Russia, India, South-East Asia, the Middle East and Australia before now.


For your benefit Asher, I have been to -

Russia, Australia, Austria, Dubai, The United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Belgium, Croatia, Czech Republic, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, Luxembourg, Holland, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Egypt and Nepal...

By what definition have I not been out and seen the world?

Funko
16-06-2008, 12:02:31
This statistic is one that's frequently pulled up on places like 'poly as a way of slagging off Americans.

Asher is reacting as if this were there.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 12:03:11
Not forgetting the Vatican City.

Funko
16-06-2008, 12:05:17
I'd be interested to know how many Brits with passports only use them once a year to do their 2 week summer holiday in some Spanish resort where they can get their good old english breakfasts and chips with everything?

Funko
16-06-2008, 12:06:39
If you've been to Russia, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, UAE and France they probably won't let you into the US!

MoSe
16-06-2008, 12:10:00
won't you just have to declare on the proper form that you're not a terrorist?

Funko
16-06-2008, 12:11:31
I think they figured out that terrorists might lie on that question.

Mr. Bas
16-06-2008, 12:11:34
Prepare for a full cavity search.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 12:11:45
Originally posted by Funko
If you've been to Russia, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, UAE and France they probably won't let you into the US!

Hehe - I have heard about the horrible wait times at American airports... I am flying into NY in the morning though so hopefully even if I have to wait a couple of hours won't be any trouble booking into my first hotel!

I am going to NY, Washington, Philadelphia and Boston from mid July till Mid August (in that order, week in each.) Anyone got any travel advice?

Funko
16-06-2008, 12:12:22
Fly to Newark not JFK. Probably too late.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 12:13:10
Originally posted by Funko
I'd be interested to know how many Brits with passports only use them once a year to do their 2 week summer holiday in some Spanish resort where they can get their good old english breakfasts and chips with everything?

I'm equally astonished by this - especially with how cheap and easy it is for us to visit all of Europe (much of it being much cheaper than Spain or Portugal!)

C.G.B. Spender
16-06-2008, 12:13:12
Originally posted by Funko
This statistic is one that's frequently pulled up on places like 'poly as a way of slagging off Americans.

Asher is reacting as if this were there. Tis not?

if you are polytubby, there's enough to keep you occupied for a lifetime inside poly.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 12:13:50
Originally posted by Funko
Fly to Newark not JFK. Probably too late.

Already had that advice, and am indeed going to Newark.

I'm a Lonely Planet kind of traveller! :)

MoSe
16-06-2008, 12:14:19
"why are coming to US?"
"I'm here to visit a guy named Venom. I met him on the internet!"

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 12:17:12
"Is he morbidly obese?"

Debaser
16-06-2008, 12:17:13
Originally posted by Kitsuki
Hehe - I have heard about the horrible wait times at American airports... I am flying into NY in the morning though so hopefully even if I have to wait a couple of hours won't be any trouble booking into my first hotel!

Do you mean checking in to your first hotel? If you do mean booking then you should probably do that before you fly 'cos they wont let you in to the country if you don't have a place to stay already sorted out.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 12:17:33
Bleh, I do indeed mean check-in.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-06-2008, 12:44:56
Originally posted by Funko
I'd be interested to know how many Brits with passports only use them once a year to do their 2 week summer holiday in some Spanish resort where they can get their good old english breakfasts and chips with everything?

76,81 % in 2007.

Lurker the Second
16-06-2008, 13:40:32
Originally posted by Kitsuki
I was staggered to find out today that only 23% of Americans have a passport... Do you guys not go abroad...? :o

That's an interesting question. What's the baseline for comparison?

Funko
16-06-2008, 14:06:01
I just read another interesting thing linking lack of overseas travel to limited annual leave. Could be a factor with a lot of americans getting a tiny 10 days or so compared to our European 20-30 day haul.

Lurker the Second
16-06-2008, 14:24:16
Maybe. I'm just curious what percentage of europeans have traveled overseas, as apart from the Brits hitting mainland Europe or vice versa.

C.G.B. Spender
16-06-2008, 14:29:47
I was in Bowling Green / Ohio. Does that count?

Lurker the Second
16-06-2008, 14:32:30
Absolutely.

C.G.B. Spender
16-06-2008, 14:35:27
*proud*

Lurker the Second
16-06-2008, 14:46:32
In fact, it puts you one up on me (and probably around 220 million other americans, for that matter).

Greg W
16-06-2008, 14:54:42
Yeah, I guess that to really respond to Kitsuki's question, you'd have to know what percentage of people from other countries have passports, as Lurker asked.

I'd imagine that people from countries in the Middle East, South America, much of Asia and Africa would have much lower percentages. But then we're not talking about "western" countries in most cases.

My guess is that Australia's percentage would be much higher. However, we're also likely to take one big trip overseas, and then settle down and not need one for years. So maybe the retention rate would make that percentage much lower than I would have guessed.

Personally, I have been to many overseas countries, and there is a definite benefit to travelling, even if you are from a country as large and as culturally diverse as the US. Where in the US can you see anything to compare with the Great Wall of China, the Forbidden City, the Pyramids, the Colloseum, etc?

The USA has a number of great places to see, and I've only seen a few of them, but no matter where you live, I would always suggest travelling to see other parts of the world. Especially as I found the USA to be very like Australia in many ways. But a lot of Europe was so different that it really was a bit of a culture shock. Even London was massively different to a San Fran or LA (the two main cities in the USA that I visited).

Oerdin
16-06-2008, 14:55:09
Originally posted by Kitsuki
For your benefit Asher, I have been to -

Russia, Australia, Austria, Dubai, The United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Belgium, Croatia, Czech Republic, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, Luxembourg, Holland, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Egypt and Nepal...

By what definition have I not been out and seen the world?

The bolded two are both in the same country. Dubai is located in the UAE.

Oerdin
16-06-2008, 15:00:09
Originally posted by Kitsuki
Hehe - I have heard about the horrible wait times at American airports... I am flying into NY in the morning though so hopefully even if I have to wait a couple of hours won't be any trouble booking into my first hotel!

I am going to NY, Washington, Philadelphia and Boston from mid July till Mid August (in that order, week in each.) Anyone got any travel advice?

Tons to see in DC the Smithsonians Air & Space Museum is especially impressive with the original Wright Brothers plane & lots of stuff from the moon missions on display. Jamestown Virginia (not far from DC) has a reproduction of the first English colony while Colonial Williamsburg has cool original buildings from the colonial period.

Get a good guide book because there is a lot to see and do.

Asher
16-06-2008, 15:27:43
Originally posted by Oerdin
The bolded two are both in the same country. Dubai is located in the UAE.

If you're being anal, half of those countries I'm certain aren't real in the first place. ;)

Immortal Wombat
16-06-2008, 15:38:07
Originally posted by Kitsuki
By what definition have I not been out and seen the world?
a whale's.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 19:48:39
Originally posted by Oerdin
The bolded two are both in the same country. Dubai is located in the UAE.

This is true, should have said Abu Dhabi.

Immortal Wombat
16-06-2008, 20:12:32
That is also in the UAE, although a different emirate to Dubai, obviously.

LoD
16-06-2008, 20:38:51
Originally posted by Asher
If you don't like wilderness, that's your own damn fault. Canada is a large, beautiful country and the UK is a tiny, crowded country. Take your pick, jackass.

Gotcha! For someone so adept in trolling, you really have a short fuse :lol:...

Asher
16-06-2008, 21:18:49
If you think that was me blowing a fuse, you've no idea who I am. That is me normally.

jsorense
16-06-2008, 21:20:25
I have a passport. In fact I have kept them all.
I have to laugh at Woody, though. I have seen more of Australia than he has. :p
Anyway, let me post this unofficial national anthem of the USA one more timel

"Political Science"

Artist: Randy Newman
Album: Sail Away

No one likes us
I don't know why.
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try.
But all around even our old friends put us down.
Let's drop the big one and see what happens.

We give them money
But are they grateful?
No they're spiteful
And they're hateful.
They don't respect us so let's surprise them;
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them.

Now Asia's crowded
And Europe's too old.
Africa's far too hot,
And Canada's too cold.
And South America stole our name.
Let's drop the big one; there'll be no one left to blame us.

We'll save Australia;
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
We'll build an all-American amusement park there;
They've got surfing, too.

Well, boom goes London,
And boom Paris.
More room for you
And more room for me.
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town.
Oh, how peaceful it'll be;
We'll set everybody free;
You'll have Japanese kimonos, baby,
There'll be Italian shoes for me.
They all hate us anyhow,
So let's drop the big one now.
Let's drop the big one now.

Kitsuki
16-06-2008, 21:37:26
Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
That is also in the UAE, although a different emirate to Dubai, obviously.

I know - I was just explaining why I had put them both down - they both feel like very separate places (ala Scotland and England.)

Fistandantilus
16-06-2008, 21:47:17
Pffft Scotland and England are one and the same.

Immortal Wombat
16-06-2008, 21:51:53
Yees, it does somewhat undermine your argument to start counting individual states of a country. :p

C.G.B. Spender
17-06-2008, 07:26:40
I've been to Schleswig-Holstein!

Funko
17-06-2008, 08:00:56
I was surprised how little Scotland felt like England the first time I went. Mind you that was Kilmarnock.

C.G.B. Spender
17-06-2008, 08:01:44
It's like Bavaria then

Funko
17-06-2008, 08:02:22
Bavaria has better beer.

C.G.B. Spender
17-06-2008, 08:33:01
Even better beer than Scotland?

Kitsuki
17-06-2008, 09:41:13
Scotland doesn't have much great beer (few exceptions like Deuchars IPA) but it does have plenty of whisky!

Kitsuki
17-06-2008, 09:42:01
The other aspect of this is - I take it in other countries you aren't asked for your passport when you start a new job etc? In the UK it is used as proof of nationality.

Kitsuki
17-06-2008, 09:46:26
Sorry for triple posting - just found out that 74% of Brits have a passport.

Funko
17-06-2008, 10:07:56
Other countries have ID cards as well you can use for that. In the US I think you just need a social security number. Which is how it used to be here, you just gave your national insurance number.

Fistandantilus
17-06-2008, 10:25:18
Well, if you need a passport to start a job it's not surprising that a high percentage of Brits have it.

I guess that pretty much everyone here in Italy have an ID card as you should always carry it around with you :p

Dyl Ulenspiegel
17-06-2008, 10:36:01
Originally posted by Kitsuki
The other aspect of this is - I take it in other countries you aren't asked for your passport when you start a new job etc? In the UK it is used as proof of nationality.

Depends. Passport or ID card is the easiest as it combines identity and citizenship. Any other combo will do as well, like driver's license and citizenship certificate or visa/residence titles for non EU foreigners.

MoSe
17-06-2008, 10:46:56
Originally posted by Lurker the Second
Maybe. I'm just curious what percentage of europeans have traveled overseas, as apart from the Brits hitting mainland Europe or vice versa.

I went by boat to Greece too
(I balked at crossing the balkans by car)

*End Is Forever*
17-06-2008, 11:17:32
Originally posted by Kitsuki
On the plus side, I'm paying a pittance for spending a month in the states...

That's because you are being subsidised by the UK branch of the Pat Buchanan Appreciation Society... ;)

MoSe
17-06-2008, 11:44:50
Originally posted by Funko
Bavaria has better beer.

except that Bavaria Beer is dutch

Greg W
17-06-2008, 14:28:45
Originally posted by jsorense
I have to laugh at Woody, though. I have seen more of Australia than he has. :pYeah, but you're like 10 times older than me, so I have a long time to catch up. :D

C.G.B. Spender
17-06-2008, 14:30:10
He's 600 years old?!?!!

Kitsuki
17-06-2008, 20:07:23
Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
That's because you are being subsidised by the UK branch of the Pat Buchanan Appreciation Society... ;)

Only with them for a week and a half - the other two and a half weeks I have pretty nice looking hotels in NY, Philly and Boston for a pittance.

jsorense
17-06-2008, 20:37:13
Are you ready for hot and humid?:coolgrin:

TCO
17-06-2008, 23:40:22
:beer:

TCO
17-06-2008, 23:42:14
:beer:

TCO
17-06-2008, 23:44:20
:(

TCO
17-06-2008, 23:46:48
:shoot:

TCO
17-06-2008, 23:48:35
:beer:

TCO
17-06-2008, 23:50:13
:beer:

TCO
17-06-2008, 23:54:46
:beer:

Asher
18-06-2008, 01:02:11
MTG was telling you to lay off because what was about to happen would've caused the end of the universe.

KrazyHorse
18-06-2008, 02:29:19
Originally posted by TCO
It was great in 2004, watching you little worms piss yourselves over Bush winning...

No offense. You're one of my favorites among...them. Laz too.

If you'll recall, my reaction was schadenfreude...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124790

TCO
18-06-2008, 02:29:51
Originally posted by Asher
MTG was telling you to lay off because what was about to happen would've caused the end of the universe.

I thought it was cause it was no longer fun tweaking.

TCO
18-06-2008, 02:34:48
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
If you'll recall, my reaction was schadenfreude...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124790

I didn't remember (or perhaps didn't ever see that). But figures you would be all shmartie like that.

Drake Tungsten
18-06-2008, 05:07:53
Bush has been fine since 2004. All his big fuck-ups were in the first term.

KrazyHorse
18-06-2008, 06:19:46
I agree that he has been better

KrazyHorse
18-06-2008, 06:20:47
He has not been fine however. His support for torture and indefinite detention of people based solely on suspicion is despicable.

C.G.B. Spender
18-06-2008, 06:58:37
He roxx

MOBIUS
18-06-2008, 11:27:53
Originally posted by MoSe
I balked at crossing the balkans by car

I always wondered why they were called the Balkans...:D

MOBIUS
18-06-2008, 11:42:19
One could argue that as an American, if you wanted to see the rest of the world, just go and visit Las Vegas...

Having travelled coast to coast over the space of a few months, I do have to say that America's landscapes are more physically diverse and 'big'. However, having also travelled all over the UK, I have to say that our landscape is small and perfectly formed.

What we do have that will beat the US hands down every single time is the sheer amount of history and culture! Virtually everywhere you go in the UK you are constantly surrounded by a huge and multi-faceted legacy of human habitation since the Neolithic age...

I think the thing that struck me most in the US is that once you get out of the main and oldest cities, the hinterland is often historically and culturally barren, or at most possessed of a thin veneer.

Depends what you want from a holiday, really...:)

MoSe
18-06-2008, 12:16:50
to find a reason and the guts to get lost and never get back...

:cute:

Asher
18-06-2008, 12:17:35
Why the hell would anyone holiday in the UK to learn about how they once didn't completely suck?

Funko
18-06-2008, 12:23:19
Dhy.

Kitsuki
18-06-2008, 13:44:17
Originally posted by MOBIUS
One could argue that as an American, if you wanted to see the rest of the world, just go and visit Las Vegas...

Having travelled coast to coast over the space of a few months, I do have to say that America's landscapes are more physically diverse and 'big'. However, having also travelled all over the UK, I have to say that our landscape is small and perfectly formed.

What we do have that will beat the US hands down every single time is the sheer amount of history and culture! Virtually everywhere you go in the UK you are constantly surrounded by a huge and multi-faceted legacy of human habitation since the Neolithic age...

I think the thing that struck me most in the US is that once you get out of the main and oldest cities, the hinterland is often historically and culturally barren, or at most possessed of a thin veneer.

Depends what you want from a holiday, really...:)

The same can probably be said about most of Europe...

My holidays generally revolve around buying a copy of Lonely Planet, ploughing through as much historic sight-seeing as I can during the day, and enjoying food and wine in the evening. :)

Drake Tungsten
18-06-2008, 15:50:44
His support for torture and indefinite detention of people based solely on suspicion is despicable.

:b: (for "torture" and detention of enemy combatants)

Beta1
18-06-2008, 18:14:16
Originally posted by Asher
Why the hell would anyone holiday in the UK to learn about how they once didn't completely suck?

You wouldn't - you would holiday anywhere else in the English speaking world to see what we got up to when we didn't suck :p

C.G.B. Spender
19-06-2008, 07:09:29
When was that?