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Scabrous Birdseed
19-05-2008, 16:07:52
I'm not so much into white British music but I caught a show on this phenomenon on TV yesterday. Basically it's a bunch of indie bands out of West London doing 60s-tinged folkish music, Pentangle-style, people like Johnny Flynn (http://www.myspace.com/johnnyflynn), Noah and the Whale (http://www.myspace.com/noahandthewhale) and Jeremy Warmsely (http://www.myspace.com/jeremywarmsley). I thought it sounded quite good but everyone involved is obviously a total twat in every way, is there anyone doing this stuff who's not "funny"?

Greg W
20-05-2008, 01:15:54
The John Butler Trio (http://www.johnbutlertrio.com/) (from Australia which is why I know them) is a bit that way if you can get your hands on any of their music.

If you go to the website you can listen to their music, there's a link on the front page to play their songs.

Lazarus and the Gimp
20-05-2008, 15:56:53
Depends what you're looking at. From Neofolk you've got the heavyweight acts being Current 93, Backworld, Nature and Organisation, Sol Invictus, The Moon and the Wand, and In Gowan Ring. I've got loads of this.

Psych-folk puts you in Devendra Banhart territory. Not really my scene.

Folktronica gives you Tunng, who are absolutely brilliant.

Debaser
20-05-2008, 17:47:25
I think Jack Penate is the leading light of the particular London scene Scabby mentions. He's not too bad, but a lot of the scene that's sprung up around him is a bit too smug and style over substance for me (Johnny Flynn et al).

But yeah, as Laz said, if you're looking for a credible and less wanky alternative then ultimately the music they're making isn't a million miles removed from what people like Devendra Banhart and Bonnie Prince Billy are doing, and they're a thousand times better.

protein
20-05-2008, 19:25:51
i thought new folk was that nice folky stuff you tend to hear on bank adverts nowerdays rather than that sub-jamie t crap that jack peanut and jeremy warmsley are knocking out.

Debaser
20-05-2008, 19:39:23
Mobile phone adverts mostly. Where a couple of mid-30s Gap wearing creative director types throw some balloons and acoustic guitars in the back of their Land Rover and hold a moonlight beach party.

novacane
20-05-2008, 23:13:50
right on

protein
20-05-2008, 23:24:39
yeah. despite hating the perfect world they create in those adverts, i like the music. these aren't particularly folky but they are examples of what i like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3xe9dSY7zM

and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXTsx4u1zpA

protein
20-05-2008, 23:25:50
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
I'm not so much into white British music

i missed this. i'm not sure if it's a joke or not. i don't want to bite if it isn't.

Scabrous Birdseed
21-05-2008, 06:27:35
Why do you post about it then? Your electro-rockey scene (with bands like Hadouken! and stuff) is probably the only recent music I've liked from "white" (in the US sense of white middle-class) Britain. Comparatively I listen a lot more to dubstep, grime, bassline/niche and recently a lot of drum & bass, traditionally "black" genres. I know the division is not as clear-cut in the UK as elsewhere and the genres are well mixed both in terms of class and ethnicity, so just replace "white" with "rockist" if it feels better.

novacane
21-05-2008, 08:52:41
anything feels better really.

novacane
21-05-2008, 08:53:48
Jack Penate makes music for cunts, and its not very often I use such a word. Only when it feels right.

protein
21-05-2008, 10:17:57
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
the genres are well mixed both in terms of class and ethnicity, so just replace "white" with "rockist" if it feels better.
yeah, just drop the whole black/white thing, it's retarded. we don't have exclusively black or white music in britain. all those genres you mention were never invented, produced by or listened to exclusively by black people. that's not how urban culture works over here.

as for lumping my band in with hadouken and as a white middle class band - just fuck off, it's ignorant. you should write for the nme.

Gramercy Riffs
21-05-2008, 12:56:09
Music is entertainment.

protein
21-05-2008, 13:22:18
it is!

sorry to go off at scabby but i've absolutely had it with that sort of tabloid attitude to music where everything is catagorised into black, white, rich, poor, worthy, fake, real, gay or straight and has to have a story. it's just music. if you like it, you like it, if you don't you don't.

it's like those people who go to art galleries and look at the little white explaination plaque next to the artwork instead of the actual artwork. it's infuriating. look at the artwork!

i'd hate for my band to be classed as "rockist"??? or even god forbid "multicultural" or "urban" just because we've got a black member. i'd hate for us to be called a working class band because some of us grew up on estates, i'd hate for us to be catagorised as "new rave" just because we have a keyboardist.

95% of everything you think you know about an act is complete bullshit heresay made up by tabloid mentality hacks and press agents trying to create an image.

take the nme for example. they invented a story out of nowhere that my band was manufactured and that we were about to split up. we then wrote them a letter saying it's absolute bollocks, then they run an article called "does it offend you yeah deny split rumours" - these are the rumours that they made up remember - then they flew out a reporter to new york to interview us - we thought it was about our triumphant coachella gig or about cracking america or something - but she spent an hour trying to get us to talk about this splitting up rumour that they had made up about us, tried to ask us all about our side projects and didn't even once talk about our band or our music.

again, sorry to react in what seems like an exaggerated way but i have a real bee in my bonnet about this sort of thing at the moment as these attitudes and rumours directly affect my life.

Gramercy Riffs
21-05-2008, 14:13:59
Don't think you’re exaggerating at all, I totally agree. My point was, like you say, music is what it is, you either like it or you don’t. If the first thought that comes into your mind when someone says ‘The Beatles’ is ‘four, middle class, white men, some with art school leanings, probably brought up in suburban dwellings, though drummer possibly from an estate’, then that’s pretty sad.

As for NME, I think Morrissey got it pretty spot on in his response to their recent shenanigans with him.

Funko
21-05-2008, 14:40:26
So DIOYY are splitting up? No!!!

protein
21-05-2008, 14:42:18
we've genuinely had people asking us not to split up. :p

Funko
21-05-2008, 14:48:10
Brilliant. You should sue.

protein
21-05-2008, 14:50:54
sue the only "indie" magazine in the uk. it's like suing the devil after you made a pact with him.

Debaser
21-05-2008, 14:52:51
You're going to sue Artrocker?

Funko
21-05-2008, 14:56:25
It sort of goes with what you were saying about American 'alternative' music stations the other day. It is shit that our 'indie' coverage is basically dominated by NME and XFM, neither of which particularly cover good 'indie' music these days.

Scabrous Birdseed
21-05-2008, 17:30:23
Well, pretending not to be part of any patterns or genres is a very "rockist" attitude in itself, innit? :)

I'm not going to sit around and suggest there aren't general trends in music, or that your type of music isn't very much in line with the times, mostly consumed by a middle-class that's overwhelmingly white and whose subcultural references tend to be "indie" in nature. Is it ridiculous to claim that your band's success in part is because you've tapped into a current or direction of contemporary music? Or that there are underlying values of, say, performance, origination, function and originality embedded in your music that are shared with other bands?

It's not saying anything about the quality of your music at all, in fact I like it enough to buy the album. I'm not trying to put you down!

protein
21-05-2008, 17:34:20
why should it matter what colour everyone is? if you took a percentage of the amount of black people there were in the entire uk and then cross-referenced it against our audience you'd probably find that we had a larger proportion of black people at our concerts. does that make us an urban act? personally i think we sound more like nine inch nails than hadouken, does that make us an americana industrial band?

does it matter? no.

seng
21-05-2008, 18:07:41
I have never heard of any of the bands you're talking about, (except The Beatles). I'm white, btw. in my 20s, and my yearly income is pitiful. My mother is a nurse, and my father is some sort of bureaucrat or other. I had my first sexual experience at 16, and I've never done drugs. I like dogs better than cats, and my favorite color is red.

Lazarus and the Gimp
21-05-2008, 18:19:00
Originally posted by protein
personally i think we sound more like nine inch nails than hadouken, does that make us an americana industrial band?




Go suggest to the rivetheads on Vampirefreaks that NIN are industrial and they'll run you out of town with pitchforks.

Speaking of which, have you got your band profile on Vampirefreaks yet?

LoD
21-05-2008, 18:37:15
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
I'm not going to sit around and suggest there aren't general trends in music, or that your type of music isn't very much in line with the times, mostly consumed by a middle-class that's overwhelmingly white and whose subcultural references tend to be "indie" in nature.

And a good thing you're not, because most of the people I know (which are overwhelmingly middle-class) don't listen to anything that can be remotely classified as "indie" at all.

Immortal Wombat
21-05-2008, 19:44:51
wrong end of the syllogism there, LoD.

Anyway, DIOYY are way blacker than Hadouken.

LoD
21-05-2008, 19:48:57
IW: depends on what you think I want to demonstrate :).

Scabrous Birdseed
21-05-2008, 19:52:15
Ah, so the basic issue is you don't like Hadouken. Fair enough.

protein
21-05-2008, 20:31:41
no no no, i do like hadouken. aaargh!

i don't like it when people catagorise bands with unrealistic, un-musical catagorisation.

i know you aren't trying to put us down, i just think you need to stop worrying about it all so much. music is for enjoying not collecting and catagorising into weak journalistic pigeon holes like an autistic trainspotter! what does it matter if you find out a rapper you like is actually white and god forbid, middle class!!!

Scabrous Birdseed
22-05-2008, 06:57:00
Hmm... I am rather fond of Nerdcore (http://downwithtunes.blogspot.com/2008/02/genre-of-week-nerdcore.html)...

Like I said in another thread on a similar subject, the "liberal" (who sees no patterns in society) is always going to win over the "radical" (who does) at a detail level. I mean, every individual band can be proven not to be part of any scene or theme if you want to - does this mean there are no scenes or themes?

On a worldwide level I've seen you lumped together with acts like Crystal Castles and CSS because of the mixture of very "live-sounding" live instruments and very "synthetic-sounding" electronics. Is that an unfair basis for comparison?

Funko
22-05-2008, 07:50:47
Originally posted by protein
i don't like it when people catagorise bands with unrealistic, un-musical catagorisation.

Hmm. I strongly suggest you don't read Scabby's blog.

novacane
22-05-2008, 09:08:21
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Like I said in another thread on a similar subject, the "liberal" (who sees no patterns in society) is always going to win over the "radical" (who does) at a detail level. I mean, every individual band can be proven not to be part of any scene or theme if you want to - does this mean there are no scenes or themes?

This is the most balanced opinion here. The idealistic stance is admirable and the one I side with but its unrealistic. Reagrdless of who is behind the music, it sounds the way it does for a reason. There is background to it, subconscious or not and its of such complexity that no one could ever really fully understand. That it can then be categorised is just the way it is. Its what commentators do. Without them, music wouldn't reach half as many people. There are two fully justified arguments going on here. Neither is right and neither is wrong.

and I hate sitting on the fence.

Gramercy Riffs
22-05-2008, 10:30:48
Sore bum?

novacane
22-05-2008, 12:27:49
Spikes/Splinters. Perilous

Resource Consumer
23-05-2008, 19:05:05
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Depends what you're looking at. From Neofolk you've got the heavyweight acts being Current 93, Backworld, Nature and Organisation, Sol Invictus, The Moon and the Wand, and In Gowan Ring. I've got loads of this.

Psych-folk puts you in Devendra Banhart territory. Not really my scene.

Folktronica gives you Tunng, who are absolutely brilliant.

Sol Invictus is pretty neat - I have only heard "To Kill All Kings" and fully appreciaqte both the sentiment and the music. I'll check on the others.