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maroule
22-01-2008, 09:39:42
HBO has acquired the rights to turn George R.R. Martin's bestselling fantasy series "A Song of Fire & Ice" into a dramatic series to be written and exec produced by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss.
"Fire" is the first TV project for Benioff ("Troy") and Weiss ("Halo") and will shoot in Europe or New Zealand. Benioff and Weiss will write every episode of each season together save one, which the author (a former TV writer) will script.

The series will begin with the 1996 first book, "A Game of Thrones," and the intention is for each novel (they average 1,000 pages each) to fuel a season's worth of episodes. Martin has nearly finished the fifth installment, but won't complete the seven-book cycle until 2011.

The author will co-exec produce the series along with Management 360's Guymon Casady and Created By's Vince Gerardis.

Martin's series has drawn comparisons to J.R.R. Tolkien, because both are period epics set in imagined lands. But Martin has eschewed Tolkien's good-vs.-evil theme in favor of flawed characters from seven noble families.

The book has a decidedly adult bent, with sex and violence comparable to series like "Rome" and "Deadwood."

"They tried for 50 years to make 'Lord of the Rings' as one movie before Peter Jackson found success making three," Martin said. "My books are bigger and more complicated, and would require 18 movies. Otherwise, you'd have to choose one or two characters."

Aside from writing the most recent draft of "Halo," Weiss recently adapted the William Gibson novel "Pattern Recognition" for WB and director Peter Weir.

Benioff and Weiss were repped by CAA and Management 360.

Greg W
22-01-2008, 13:41:45
Fucking excellent! That's a great series of books, I just hope they do them justice. If they do, this will be one of the best series ever!

Sir Penguin
22-01-2008, 19:13:25
Neat!

SP

Funko
23-01-2008, 09:42:09
I'm sure every time this comes up I say I'd like to read it and K_G says I can borrow the books and then I completely forget.

King_Ghidra
23-01-2008, 09:54:30
this and a million other books. come round some time with a sack and you can run off with the lot of them.

Fistandantilus
18-04-2011, 15:52:29
First episode was excellent imo :beer:

Funko
20-04-2011, 07:24:26
Agreed.

Funko
20-04-2011, 09:34:10
I have just ordered the books.

Fistandantilus
26-04-2011, 11:04:58
Cersei still looks like Sarah Connor.

Funko
26-04-2011, 11:33:18
She's currently Chuck's mother.

maroule
27-04-2011, 14:29:57
I'm downloading the first two episodes
I saw the first 15 minutes of HBO, it looked pretty faithful

Fistandantilus
27-04-2011, 15:42:54
Yeah it is. Some differences are there but really minor ones.
A few background stories have been cut out (which is understandable, focus is on Lannisters/Starks) but overall very well made imo.

Asher
27-04-2011, 15:57:04
Too many icky naked females. Not enough naked males.

Aside from that, it is good.

maroule
27-04-2011, 16:26:23
I really don't know how HBO will deal with the latest volumes, who move away from these protagonists to explore side stories

it's fine in writing, but for the tighter/more focused medium TV is, I suspect it won't play very well

the only hope I suppose is that Martin finally wraps it up in his next tome, by returning to the core famillies (but some of his branching out recently is pretty wild and could run on for 2.000 more pages before even getting near to a sense of completion)

Funko
27-04-2011, 16:32:00
I think that might be why they have called this season "Game of Thrones" and are (I believe) calling the later seasons after the names of the later books.

BTW, could we keep spoilers to a minimum in this thread or at least clearly highlight them (warning in advance).

Fistandantilus
27-04-2011, 17:30:34
BTW, could we keep spoilers to a minimum in this thread or at least clearly highlight them (warning in advance).

Nope.

Asher
27-04-2011, 18:17:04
SPOILERS

Nudity is in this series

maroule
28-04-2011, 08:18:02
I couldn't spoil it if I wanted, this is so complex with so many characters I have forgotten most of it already

maroule
02-05-2011, 07:27:33
saw the first two, downloading the third


I have to say I'm quite impressed. It's very faithful to the book (down sometimes to the exact same dialogues), the casting is great (so far at least, Cersei/Jaime and Tyron in particular are very well cast / will be interested to see their father), they got rid of some minor characters that didn't offer much, and above all they kept the general balance of what makes the book great; no black and white, even people behaving like pure bastards like Cersei have a believable and even somehow "respectable" agenda for being bastards (provided you feel the preservation of your selfish interests is respectable). Plus the production values are very solid (special effects, sets, etc.), even if you sometimes feel the budget restraint (I remember the wedding with Drogo as a rather grand affair, and not a simple beach party / some set pieces in the book ask for tens of thousands of soldiers, so I hope their CGI budget is sizable)

all in all, looking forward to 5 years of quality TV with the missus (who seems hooked, she even started reading the book)

Lazarus and the Gimp
03-05-2011, 18:44:46
In the two hours I've seen so far, there's been about 20 minutes of plot.

It badly needs an editor.

Funko
04-05-2011, 07:41:15
You definitely shouldn't watch Treme.

Funko
04-05-2011, 08:12:18
Having thought about it... the first episode was absolutely jammed with plot points, despite being an introductory episode, and the second one was a bit slower, but that gave us time to catch our breath.

I like the luxury they have at HBO to not have to rush plot, and not have to jam something into 45 mins. It's not frenetic paced, but it's certainly not particularly slow.

maroule
04-05-2011, 14:36:57
there was a lot of exposition in the pilot, but considering how complex the story is (if only by the sheer number of important people) I can't see how they could have done otherwise


aprat from the stag / dire wold scene (whcih was unclear, i.e. my wife asking how many stark kids there are and me unable to answer) they handled the expsition very clearly

Lazarus and the Gimp
05-05-2011, 04:57:52
You definitely shouldn't watch Treme.


Funnily enough, the approach taken by those guys is the way I'd go. Take "The Wire"- it didn't spend the first two episodes explaining what's happened over the past 20 years and who people are. It just started, and left the viewers to work it out for themselves.

Funko
05-05-2011, 07:38:08
They had the luxury of starting a story afresh, not working with a well loved established work. The general consensus seems to be that the show is about as faithful to the books as is possible in a totally different genre.

But I don't really feel it's been slow paced.

Fistandantilus
05-05-2011, 10:30:48
aprat from the stag / dire wold scene (whcih was unclear, i.e. my wife asking how many stark kids there are and me unable to answer)

I hope you eventually remembered cause they are all pretty important :lol:

I don't feel it slow either but I may be biased cause i read the books and know what to expect. Still I don't think we do know much/they told much about what happened over the past 20 years?

The rise and fall of the Targaryan king and subsequent exile of the heirs is a bit vague.

Greg W
05-05-2011, 11:08:14
Damn having to wait until July for this to come to Oz! :bash:

Fistandantilus
05-05-2011, 11:25:44
Well dubbing requires some time.

Greg W
05-05-2011, 13:32:54
Strewth!

Worst thing is it's going to be on a channel I don't have on my cable package. So I'll either have to pay through the nose for it (painful), or wait for the DVD release. Or find some dodgy site to watch it online of course... :cute:

Funko
05-05-2011, 13:37:09
In which case you don't need to wait.

maroule
05-05-2011, 14:52:40
i don't have a choice and download it through emule; I don't pirate normally but it's not if I had any other option.

"I hope you eventually remembered cause they are all pretty important" / well, I always mix the first two brothers... but it will come back
besides it's impossible to remember everybody after reading all tomes and the smaller novellas he wrote on westeros, simply too many people

the "game throne watch" on Time.com is pretty well done, the journalist is good

Funko
05-05-2011, 15:00:50
The two older brothers and the half brother look too similar for me to distinguish after 2 episodes.

maroule
05-05-2011, 15:14:03
the bastard is getting simple to spot at episode 3, he's dressed in black, has a melancholic look and dirty hair, and lives at the bottom of a gigantic wall

Fistandantilus
05-05-2011, 15:34:48
The two older brothers and the half brother look too similar for me to distinguish after 2 episodes.

The two oldest brothers are Robb (the heir) and Jon Snow (the bastard one), you seem to imply a third one? As Maroule said they become easy to spot later... they lookalike tho I agree.

Other than those two you have Bran which is easy to spot as is spending his time either climbing towers or in bed injured so far :p and the last one I can't remember the name now but he's just a kid (5 yo or something).

Funko
05-05-2011, 15:45:03
Ok so is there someone else of similar age to Robb and Jon Snow? :confused:

Funko
05-05-2011, 15:45:39
Need to finish the book I'm reading so I can start the book.

Fistandantilus
05-05-2011, 17:35:08
Probably, not a Stark tho so I dunno who are you confusing him with.
And yes the books are more clear (on top of having those handy 'genealogy trees' (sp?) in the end)

Greg W
06-05-2011, 03:05:01
Rikkon (spelling?) was the youngest kid.

Wonder if they're thinking of the Lannister boy as the "other" boy? I certainly don't remember a third Stark boy around that age. Then again, it's been so long since I read the first book that I may be forgetting perhaps a ward that they had? That vaguely rings a bell.

Funko
06-05-2011, 07:26:55
The Lannisters are easy to distinguish, they are all blonde.

Probably just an extra.

maroule
06-05-2011, 07:57:58
maybe Theon Greyjoy, he has been in the cast, although not speaking so far (but significant second role in the book)

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://i.cdn.hbo.com/assets/images/series/game-of-thrones/character/theon-greyjoy-1024.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/cast-and-crew/theon-greyjoy/index.html&usg=__teLeg2RL_5sBb8Pf5i0XxOaP3WE=&h=576&w=1024&sz=200&hl=fr&start=0&sig2=rq0KbnHYsfg7aFfdl41b-g&zoom=1&tbnid=Ezc2cq89H6qU0M:&tbnh=133&tbnw=175&ei=pKnDTe7HHYLf0QHJ_YHECA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtheon%2Bgreyjoy%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dfr%26 sa%3DN%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D905%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=453&page=1&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:19,s:0&tx=71&ty=64

Rikkon is supposed to be six and hasn't been seen yet

Funko
06-05-2011, 08:01:24
Yeah that might be him. Was around the time they found the cubs. I hadn't realised at that point that Rikkon was a child we hadn't seen yet so was trying to work out who the 5 children were.

maroule
06-05-2011, 08:39:47
exactly, that was my point, that scene was confusing

they still have a lot of exposition to go through (for example the role of the maestre => we've seen at least 2 already, with their big chains/necklaces, but no word on what they do), but the way they handled it in the third episode (specifically on the seasons lasting years, which explained why "the winter is coming" is more ominous that it first sounded to us) is a good sign; it was both clear, interesting, and didn't slow the tempo

Funko
06-05-2011, 09:04:04
Even less happened in episode 3 than in 2. Poor Laz. :(

Fistandantilus
06-05-2011, 09:07:41
:lol:

Funko
06-05-2011, 09:10:02
Oh and the map in the opening credits is meant to change as new areas/regions are unlocked as the show goes along.

Fistandantilus
06-05-2011, 09:12:35
Seriously? :o

Funko
06-05-2011, 09:15:43
Yeah, seriously!

Haven't really noticed anything yet.

Funko
06-05-2011, 09:16:37
Well... I wasn't sure if the Dothraki stuff appeared after the first episode. I had deleted episode 1 so couldn't check.

maroule
06-05-2011, 09:40:51
yep, it changes according to where the episode will go
however for the moment we're looking mainly at 4 spots (wall, winterfell, kings landing, dothrakis) so ep 2 and 3 were similar i think
there should be at least a new location in next episode (and if it is what I think, a pretty spectacular one)

Greg W
07-05-2011, 15:33:16
And for anyone interested in collecting replica steel swords from the series...

http://www.valyriansteel.com/shop/

Fistandantilus
07-05-2011, 17:05:00
I'm totally going to spend 600$ on a damascus longclaw.

Greg W
08-05-2011, 02:31:32
I spent about $600 on a Longclaw and an Ice. :beer:

Greg W
09-05-2011, 03:46:24
23-01-2008:
I'm sure every time this comes up I say I'd like to read it and K_G says I can borrow the books and then I completely forget.20-04-2011:
I have just ordered the books.Only took him 3 and a bit years (plus however long from previous posts about the series) and the series coming out to get him off his arse. :D

Oh, and I did read somewhere (facedork from memory) that he's finished the next book and it's due for release sometime in June from memory...

Greg W
09-05-2011, 03:50:34
Oops. Just checked the website. Tuesday, July 12, 2011. Only 64 days! :beer:

Funko
09-05-2011, 07:48:22
It's been much longer than that. I'm sure KG mentioned them in real life before they were ever talked about on here.

maroule
09-05-2011, 15:17:19
I'll be watching the 4th tonight, looking forward... things should start heating up...

Lazarus and the Gimp
09-05-2011, 18:37:20
As just ranted on Poly.

There are a number of things annoying me about this show.

Firstly, they've got a "What the fuck is going on?" Man, played by Iain Glen. A "What the fuck is going on?" Man is a character existing only as a plot device to patiently explain to the viewer what the fuck is going on, in contrived dialogue with another character. Put bluntly, he's the fiction equivalent of a link to Wikipedia.

That appears to be all he's there for. We can be sure he won't die, at least not until Blonde Bint has been fully assimilated in the Ludicrous Barbarian Horde, because if he did die, the viewer would be left baffled.

"What the fuck is going on?" Men were perfectly acceptable in fairy tales, where they'd pop up briefly as a "wise old man", impart a piece of crucial plot-advancing info, then bugger off again- but that's because fairy tales were designed to be told in ten minutes to an unsophisticated audience. In a massive fantasy opus, it's just lazy writing.

Secondly there's the Ludicrous Barbarian Horde. Real-life nomadic tribes are fascinating cultures with rich beliefs and iconographies- but if this bunch were depicted any more sketchily they'd be stick men. Blonde Bint is trying to learn their language, and it really wouldn't surprise me if the entire lexicon consisted of "horse", "foal", "pony", "saddle", "bridle" and "kill everything that doesn't have hooves".

The Ludicrous Barbarian Horde are a ravening plague, sweeping all civilisation before them, but three hours in and they've done nothing more than potter around grasslands, very slowly. In fur bikinis. And it's "horse" this, and "horse" that, and "horse off, you horsing horse!". I think we've got the "horse" motif unshakeably established by now, guys. Finally, in episode three, we get a glimpse of their religion in a couple of places, and what does it turn out to be? The Great Stallion. Fuck you.

I'm trying to think of a more one-dimensional people depicted on celluloid, and the only thing that comes close are the Arabs in "Team America: World Police".

Then you've got the barbarian leader, who is a cross between Ming the Merciless and Freddie Mercury's very wettest dream. He's there to look muscled and gay. Not to talk or act, clearly. His character arc, and that of Blonde Bint, is to show how cultural assimilation is achieved by having the lady go on top when shagging. In episode one he was brutally deflowering her like a doggy-style jackhammer, but by episode three they're dreamily snuggly-wuggly cuddly and just about to talk about feelings and kittens and shit. By episode five the arc will be completed by her violently buggering him with a strap-on while bellowing "I'M THE FUCKING DADDY NOW, BITCH!!".

That whole Barbarian horde arc is rubbish. It's nowhere near as interesting as the game I'm now playing with Blonde Fop Incest Man, which is trying to guess when he'll attempt a new facial expression. He's three episodes in with the same fixed mask of smug nonchalence, and the suspense is now reaching Hitchcock levels. I can't rule out the possibility that he attempted a grimace while approaching the vinegar stroke with his sister in episode one, but I was wholly engrossed by boobs at the time.

Fistandantilus
09-05-2011, 18:59:15
His character arc, and that of Blonde Bint, is to show how cultural assimilation is achieved by having the lady go on top when shagging. In episode one he was brutally deflowering her like a doggy-style jackhammer, but by episode three they're dreamily snuggly-wuggly cuddly and just about to talk about feelings and kittens and shit. By episode five the arc will be completed by her violently buggering him with a strap-on while bellowing "I'M THE FUCKING DADDY NOW, BITCH!!".


:lol:

maroule
11-05-2011, 09:01:16
:lol:

all very true, but a bit unfair => I dare any of you to fill more than 2 lines on the nomadic Mongol culture (apart possibly on their composite bows, since we're a bunch of geeks), yet you don't reproach 99% of historians who mention them to overlook the other aspects but the horsies

maroule
11-05-2011, 09:03:37
actually I was thinking of you Laz, looking at the 4th episode, where again pretty much nothing happens... are you in any way enjoying it nonetheless?

Funko
11-05-2011, 10:15:19
Yurts, throat singing, the secret history of the mongols

Funko
12-05-2011, 07:37:13
Just seen episode 4. It is slower but no less entertaining. At the end of the hour I was surprised it had finished already.

maroule
12-05-2011, 08:09:18
there are a few good blogs or comments on GoT
Time, the Guardian, and one called, unsurprinsingly, "winter is coming"

HBO is selling a few nice T-Shirts of the different houses, the Starks is pretty cool, but the squid (Grayjoy) looks like a big cock

http://store.hbo.com/game-of-thrones-greyjoy-mens-t-shirt/detail.php?p=293509&v=hbo_shows_game-of-thrones

Funko
12-05-2011, 08:17:12
Oh and Aiden Gillen's Littlefinger is really excellent.

SPOILERS

I can't work out if Littlefinger lied about the knife's provenance or if the his siblings are setting him up.

Fistandantilus
12-05-2011, 08:30:20
<lips sealed>

Funko
12-05-2011, 08:49:36
Thanks. :beer:

maroule
12-05-2011, 08:50:51
well, I guess you'll have to keep watching to get the answer...

maroule
12-05-2011, 08:53:14
xcross
there are however some things you can already work out for yourself on the reason the previous hand was murdered

Funko
12-05-2011, 09:06:07
Of course.

Funko
12-05-2011, 09:38:53
Oh and Episode 4 finally established who the other guy hanging around the Stark house was. Theon, as Maroule suggested.

Greg W
17-05-2011, 02:04:05
Having finally watched Episode #1, all I can say is that looks wise I was a little disappointed. Cersei, Sansa and even Catelyn to an extent were not as pretty as I thought they'd be. I also seem to remember an argument between Cersei and Jaime before Jaime's last actions (to not give spoilers to anyone that's not seen it at all yet), but I could be remembering wrongly.

All in all though, I liked it. Enough to make me really want to drag the books out again and read them. Especially as the next book is due out soon.

Fistandantilus
17-05-2011, 10:10:13
I didn't realize it was a beauty contest? :confused:

maroule
17-05-2011, 11:20:57
I love the fact they're not TV pretty!
it's supposed to be a "realistic" view of a medieval fantasy... and in fact they're still waay too pretty (no bad teeth for example)

for those who watched episode 5, I was disppointed by the casting of the knight of flowers, Loras Tyrel; he's supposed to be fighting since he's 4 years old, and is presented as one of the best knight in the realm, yet he has the body shape of a anorexic teenager.. when you wear an armour plate and swing a mace, you kind of develop muscular mass...

Greg W
18-05-2011, 08:19:41
I just expected them to be very pretty, cos that was the impression I got from the books. Now they're kinda just... nice, but nothing special I guess.

Oh and my Longclaw sword arrived today. The thing is massive, about 1m 26cm! Up to my armpits. Or probably over the top of mr-B's head.

maroule
18-05-2011, 13:34:43
how heavy is it?

Greg W
18-05-2011, 14:16:08
Er... Fairly heavy? Never having lifted a real sword, I wouldn't think it's as heavy as a real one.

At a guess, fairly similar to the weight of two (full) 6 packs of beer...

maroule
18-05-2011, 15:02:51
I've lifted historical replicas, and it's not supposed to be super heavy either, it's not a mace, it's supposed to be easy/quick to swing

Greg W
18-05-2011, 15:11:53
In that case, quite possibly fairly accurate then. I could hold it up with one hand fairly easily, but then if I was swinging it for 5 minutes that might change.

The Shaker
21-05-2011, 18:10:10
there are a few good blogs or comments on GoT
Time, the Guardian, and one called, unsurprinsingly, "winter is coming"

HBO is selling a few nice T-Shirts of the different houses, the Starks is pretty cool, but the squid (Grayjoy) looks like a big cock

http://store.hbo.com/game-of-thrones-greyjoy-mens-t-shirt/detail.php?p=293509&v=hbo_shows_game-of-thrones

My missus briefly thought she'd like a Greyjoy T shirt until I pointed out the cock and Balls.
Given the shag/lore scene in the last episode(5) I assume that the symbol is actually meant to be a cock and balls.

Enjoying it all, but have now started reading the book as well....desperately trying not to skip ahead.

I Like the two Clegane brothers, reminds me of Reading.

maroule
24-05-2011, 08:00:20
The Golden Crown

(without spoiling actual events)

another strong episode I felt, the dothraki felt a lot less fake, and the eyrie scenes were splendid. One weaker scene (at least the setting, the dialogues were fine), the hunt... I mean, 4 poor sods walking through the forest... it was really underwhelming, not quite the big royal hunt with the mass of retrainers it should have been... they could have put them on horses at least...

Fistandantilus
24-05-2011, 08:06:43
The Dothraki scenes are way better in the movie than in the book imo.

maroule
24-05-2011, 12:45:20
I was disappointed at first, the wedding was too small, and you didn't get the sense of scale when the herd was moving, plus the sets had a Pier Import kind of look

Lazarus and the Gimp
24-05-2011, 21:18:56
OK. So the horse-riding, horse-eating Horsey-Horse people of Horsey-horse land, who worship the Great Stallion, and are not pregnant but have "a Prince riding inside them", venerate Princess Blondie Perkytits by (Hey! You'll never guess!) having her eat the heart of a horse?

This goes beyond lazy writing. It's a cry for help.

Don't tell me- when they finally decide to invade and acquire some relevance to the plot, they'll cross the sea by building A REALLY BIG HORSE! OUT OF HORSES! AND FILL IT WITH HORSES!

Asher
25-05-2011, 00:51:51
My missus briefly thought she'd like a Greyjoy T shirt until I pointed out the cock and Balls.
Given the shag/lore scene in the last episode(5) I assume that the symbol is actually meant to be a cock and balls.

Enjoying it all, but have now started reading the book as well....desperately trying not to skip ahead.

I Like the two Clegane brothers, reminds me of Reading.

The actor who plays Greyjoy is Lily Allen's younger brother, and he is very hung.

:brwncard:

Fistandantilus
25-05-2011, 07:17:37
... when they finally decide to invade and acquire some relevance to the plot...

Don't worry, they'll never do that :p

maroule
25-05-2011, 08:29:05
OK. So the horse-riding, horse-eating Horsey-Horse people of Horsey-horse land, who worship the Great Stallion, and are not pregnant but have "a Prince riding inside them", venerate Princess Blondie Perkytits by (Hey! You'll never guess!) having her eat the heart of a horse?

This goes beyond lazy writing. It's a cry for help.


the huns were more varied, they worshiped cows and accountants

Lazarus and the Gimp
25-05-2011, 16:24:50
Before anyone goes Poly on me, let me point out that once we got past all the exposition the main plot is actually good fun. But ye gods, the Dothraki sub-plot needs an editor.

maroule
25-05-2011, 16:36:28
fear not, this story arc takes a pretty sharp turn afterwards (probably mostly seen in season 2) and your pain should be a lot less acute

Lazarus and the Gimp
31-05-2011, 11:56:43
I like the fact that they've got a character in it whose only purpose is to show her lady garden in each episode. I'm tempted to look her up on IMDB to see if she's listed as "Woman with vagina".

Funko
31-05-2011, 12:05:29
None of her scenes are in the book either.

Fistandantilus
31-05-2011, 14:06:54
Agreed. The book has clearly room for improvement.

King_Ghidra
31-05-2011, 15:05:42
no spoilers below, but a word about the dothraki/daenerys arc from someone who has read all the books thusfar

I have to agree with laz's general comments. further, i don't think it gets much better either. yes the focus changes, yes there are lots of developments, but to the extent that it is effectively a completely different story to the rest of the characters and world that the book depicts, it generally feels pretty irrelevant. i can certainly see how this arc is tied into the meta-plot, and no doubt once book 5 comes along it will really kick in, but as of now, it's just a random bird wandering around a desert land doing stuff without any particular narrative focus, with little to evoke the world she inhabits, and having no impact on anybody else.

i'm sure there are people waiting in the wings to proclaim this the mother of all slow-burning triumphs once she integrates with the main story, but i'm not convinced. i can see why martin decided to run the arc this way, rather than simply introducing her as a fully developed character/force down the line, but he must know it's not his best work.

to me one of the great things about the fire and ice series as a whole is the way it breathes a brutal, filthy, pragmatic and machievellian vibe into the fantasy genre. the daenerys arc possesses little of that quality imho.

Greg W
05-06-2011, 15:24:38
George talks about casting and how the series came about...

huoe49o63pY

maroule
06-06-2011, 13:09:57
about daenerys; difficult to answer your points precisely without spoilers, but broadly speking I loved the fact she was different from the usual machiavelian rulers, precisely because she was groomed by a different origin (guilt) and personal story (her gender + victim status). I love the stuff (still to come) where she "wanders around" doing her major "paradigm shifts" in the cities she moves in (i.e breaking the normal paradigm of slavery/class etc.). She is the only "modern" (non medieval) ruler in the book, and we can indeed all see where this is going...

Fistandantilus
06-06-2011, 15:12:51
There is surprisingly so few nudity in ep 8 it doesn't even seem the same show.
And, it's not missed.

maroule
06-06-2011, 16:18:26
I saw ep 7 yesterday (8 tonight)
the girl on girl scene was not only ridiculous, but also fucking long
the rest was very good I thought, esp the fleshing up of characters like all the lanisters (except Tyron, next ep I'm sure) / I like their casting of Tywin => the carving up of the sigil of Barteon house wasn't subtle, but its intensity reminded me, in a good way, of daniel d lewis butchering in gangs of NY

Funko
08-06-2011, 07:20:36
I can't wait to see Laz's reaction to the latest Tribe Dany has encountered. :lol:

maroule
08-06-2011, 09:13:59
saw ep 8 yesterday
no sexposition this time, I missed vagina woman
a few poignant scenes, it was sad to see the house stark being dismembered because Ned couldn't do the "wrong" thing... in normal fantasy, pity is always rewarded...

Funko
08-06-2011, 09:28:11
Feels more real though. Can't imagine anyone in any human society being able to survive at the top for any length of time with his level of naivety.

Given similar flaws it makes you feel Robert wouldn't have survived as King as long as he did without Jon Arryn getting him to marry into the Lannisters.

Fistandantilus
08-06-2011, 09:44:00
That's sad. Naivety should be rewarded.

Funko
08-06-2011, 09:57:10
With death!

maroule
08-06-2011, 12:20:00
Feels more real though. Can't imagine anyone in any human society being able to survive at the top for any length of time with his level of naivety.

Given similar flaws it makes you feel Robert wouldn't have survived as King as long as he did without Jon Arryn getting him to marry into the Lannisters.

I agree, with a caveat; i think Ned is not naive, he knows what's at stake and he knows the human heart, but he's taking the moral high road as a way to simplify complex decisions (where the balancing of reations/consequences would ellude him).
But yes, certainly in a medieval world depicted with any degree of realism, pity can't be rewarded... it reminded me of reading the prince from Machiavel; if you can grab power because the current holders are too weak, it's your utmost duty to do so (regardless of any other consideration)

Funko
08-06-2011, 12:39:11
He's naive in who he trusts and in how he thinks others will respond to his honourable actions. Certainly I think that giving the Queen a warning about what he's going to do after seeing how ruthless they've been is completely and utterly naive.

I think it's notable (and more so in the book) that the only times he seems to respond with any degree of subtlety or understanding of the political realities is when he's with Catelyn at the beginning, she seems much more savvy.

As does Robb actually.

Funko
08-06-2011, 12:39:26
(I haven't finished the book yet, I'm pacing myself alongside the TV show at the moment).

Greg W
09-06-2011, 02:42:54
Great episode, and the only one in series one that was written by GRRM himself. Love some of the one liners...

"Not today." (in reference to an earlier quote)

"Your meat... is tough"

"And this is Bronn, son of . . .?"
"You wouldn't know him."

The first sword of Braavos does not run."

self biased
09-06-2011, 03:03:53
it's shit.

maroule
09-06-2011, 13:09:25
so shit you're still watching the 8th episode, to comment how shitty it is?

Lazarus and the Gimp
10-06-2011, 17:05:39
I can confirm that when the Horse People introduced the Sheep People my response was "Oh, fuck off".

Funko
10-06-2011, 17:28:24
:lol:

Fistandantilus
10-06-2011, 17:35:19
:lol:

Greg W
11-06-2011, 01:50:05
:funko:

Funko
13-06-2011, 07:21:12
I skipped ahead and finished the first book... look forward to how they depict events in the last two episodes.

Fistandantilus
13-06-2011, 15:55:02
Ep 9 is good. But shame on you for spoilering yourself in that way.

Funko
13-06-2011, 16:01:45
I would have been spoilered on Ep9 already. So better to have read it.

Greg W
14-06-2011, 03:59:33
Oh, one of the funnier things I have read is that the fans of the books have started calling those that haven't read the books but are watching the series on tele "The Unsullied." :lol:

Which will likely mean nothing to Funko...

maroule
14-06-2011, 07:49:44
(spoilers that I'll keep to a minimun)


I thought ep09 was very strong, very affecting

the ending still affected me; not the fact itself, but how he tries to see his daughter one last time (his daughters, for which he abandonned his honour) and is denied / it's really ultra bitter

the horsie people scenes kicked arse I thought, specifically because we're in the political theme I like (how an "inferior" can win/retain legitimacy to hold onto power) ... it's also funny how the show boosts the profile and likability of some minor characters (Jorah Mormont, Bronn the mercenary, etc.)

The unsubtle way to save money by not showing the big expensive battle (Tyron knocked out by a mace) didn't bother me... I realise I don't need to see a major battle to enjoy the show, a few duels here are there are enough to keep my interest; and they do the dueling well in the series, be it Bronn at the Vale, the dancing teacher against the Lannisters, Ned vs Jaime, Mormont against the dothraki, etc => there are suitably violent, direct and short, as in real life (it's really a Hollywood in the 50s' idea that dueling guys run after each other through a room for ever, when swordplay was designed and practiced to be as short as possible)


last ep next week, I'm already feeling the effect of withdrawal

Funko
14-06-2011, 07:59:36
Oh, one of the funnier things I have read is that the fans of the books have started calling those that haven't read the books but are watching the series on tele "The Unsullied." :lol:

Which will likely mean nothing to Funko...

I've read the first 3 pages of Book 2!

Funko
14-06-2011, 08:01:16
The unsubtle way to save money by not showing the big expensive battle

He doesn't really show the big expensive battles in the book either. So that's actually keeping it accurate.

Fistandantilus
14-06-2011, 08:46:23
Well, but they are a little more detailed than what they showed in the series :p

Tyrion did fight, and we lost out on Tywin tactics (using the vanguard as a decoy on the left wing by the river side and so on), not to mention those parts that are quite different from the book. Robb doesn't just send two thousands men to die, Roose Bolton's army was able to engange and retreat to slow the Lannister.

While I didn't mind the changes it's pretty clear they had to cut stuff due to budget constraints.

Funko
14-06-2011, 09:04:43
I haven't seen 9 yet. The GoT budget is actually impressively low* considering how high the production values are.

Wonder if it will be increased next season.

*only by US drama standards, would dwarf most UK drama budgets.

maroule
14-06-2011, 10:16:08
it might, the ratings are pretty good, and it will have to, considering what happens next

the low budget was apparent in the dothraki scenes, but overall it looked pretty sweet... it helps series like that that CGI's prices have dropped tremendously...

I'm quite curious of the casting of next year... there are some top characters still to be impersonnated

Fistandantilus
14-06-2011, 16:33:04
We want Mark Strong as Stannis.

maroule
15-06-2011, 08:15:21
yep, he'd be good
his fire witch (melusa or somthing, can't recall) should be interesting, as Asha (Théon's sister / what a fantastic role this one is)

MOBIUS
15-06-2011, 10:23:13
Been really enjoying this, especially as everything is drawing together for the season finale! Again, been really warming to the Dothraki plots lately...

MOBIUS
15-06-2011, 10:27:44
PS, the book is ready for me to collect at the library! :bounce:

Fistandantilus
20-06-2011, 11:46:06
Yay, "I'm there just to show some tits" Ros is back :lol:
And in one of the most useless made-up scenes ever :beer:

Funko
20-06-2011, 16:16:22
Nice article (spoilers from Episode 10!)

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/06/why-game-of-thrones-is-the-best-thing-on-television.ars

Fistandantilus
20-06-2011, 16:42:18
When I saw arstechnica I thought it was about the upcoming strategy game by cyanide :D

Yeah nice article, it's kinda a recap of the good and bad season 1.

Mightytree
20-06-2011, 19:35:46
THE KING IN THE NORTH!

Mightytree
20-06-2011, 20:51:06
I was skeptical about the series when they first announced it, but I have to say that now that the first season is over I've been pleasantly surprised.

Yes, there were certainly some missteps. Too many superfluous scenes (especially with Ros showing her tits) at the expense of passages from the book that should have made it to TV as well. Also, as a reader and fan of the books I just can't help making comparisons - and while the TV series is certainly good, the books are simply so much better. It's probably obvious and the bane of just about every book to TV adaption, but it just pains me that the TV adaption is what the broader audience now connects with ASoIaF (or GoT) - while the book simply offers so much more. Considering they had to fit the whole book into 10 episodes it probably couldn't be helped though.

Still, all considered I thought it was a good adaption. They managed to capture the atmosphere well enough, the casting was great and the acting very strong basically without exception. And the story itself should be beyond reproach. Especially the last two episodes were really, really good IMO. Just about every key scene from the book was very well done. The "King in the North" chapter is one of my favourite ones of the whole series and they pulled it off great. The Greatjon rocks. :bounce:

maroule
21-06-2011, 08:41:23
nice article, funko, esp coming from a viewer who hasn't read the book

ep 10 was strong, but I thought ep 9 was the apex. there are a few changes from the book I didn't like so much (for example I remember Cersei in the book chastising her stupid son for killing Ed, which is a important scene to show she can be be a stateman and is not as short sighted as Joffrey) => however some invented scenes work very well (thinking of Sansa as the article puts it very well" The scene between Sansa and Joffrey is well done, filled with tension and a very subtle shifting of control that takes place as Joffrey realized she's not learning the lesson he's hoping to teach. For just a moment, as both characters realize that Sansa is a Stark in both a literal and figurative sense, Joffrey looked afraid"

Greg W
21-06-2011, 08:42:49
The only part about the King in the North scene that annoyed me was that it wasn't held int he halls of Riverun, with the Tullys swearing to join as well. From that scene, it was just the Northmen in some ruins somewhere.

The last three episodes I thought were great though, esp as GRRM himself wrote #8.

All in all, not a bad series at all. I know I enjoyed it. Especially the finale with Dany rising out of the Ashes. :beer:

Greg W
21-06-2011, 08:45:27
nice article, funko, esp coming from a viewer who hasn't read the book

ep 10 was strong, but I thought ep 9 was the apex. there are a few changes from the book I didn't like so much (for example I remember Cersei in the book chastising her stupid son for killing Ed, which is a important scene to show she can be be a stateman and is not as short sighted as Joffrey) => however some invented scenes work very well (thinking of Sansa as the article puts it very well" The scene between Sansa and Joffrey is well done, filled with tension and a very subtle shifting of control that takes place as Joffrey realized she's not learning the lesson he's hoping to teach. For just a moment, as both characters realize that Sansa is a Stark in both a literal and figurative sense, Joffrey looked afraid"That wasn't an invented scene. He took her out to see the heads. But she couldn't see much in the books. So it was changed (like much of the book has been) but not invented per-se.

Also Cersei is seen to argue with Joffrey in the scene where Ned loses his head. You can tell she wasn't pleased with the decision.

maroule
21-06-2011, 10:09:03
well, it's not as if we, the viewers, are left with any impression that she intends to reign in her son (as she does in the book), since the half second barely glimpsed image of Cersei yelling at her son is followed by a Joffrey decision of cutting the tongue of a guy, where she smiles in approval at his cruelty. In the book she tries, and fails, and you get the (enjoyable) idea that she's fleetingly realising she fucked up her education. Here, nothing but maternal pride.So no, I don't agree, she's portrayed quite differently.

on first point, it's not the head sighting I was underlining, but the immediate shift from Sansa the puppet we disliked, to Sansa the Stark with underlying menace -she's even about to push him overbord!- I can't recall that from the book.

Greg W
21-06-2011, 11:04:46
I haven't gotten tot he scene with the tongue pulling in my re-read of the books (pretty sure it was in book 2), so I can't remember a lot. The scene where she meets Tyrion did show that she completely disagreed. So, dunno, not so sure on that one, I may have to leave it until a final re-read and re-watch of the shows.

Oh, I misunderstood the bit about Sansa. Got you now. From what I remember, she was about to throw herself overboard, not push Joff. But then I have a vague feeling that she was going to push him. Damn, I must have been half asleep when I finished reading that.

Funko
22-06-2011, 07:45:33
ep 10 was strong, but I thought ep 9 was the apex. there are a few changes from the book I didn't like so much (for example I remember Cersei in the book chastising her stupid son for killing Ed, which is a important scene to show she can be be a stateman and is not as short sighted as Joffrey) => however some invented scenes work very well (thinking of Sansa as the article puts it very well" The scene between Sansa and Joffrey is well done, filled with tension and a very subtle shifting of control that takes place as Joffrey realized she's not learning the lesson he's hoping to teach. For just a moment, as both characters realize that Sansa is a Stark in both a literal and figurative sense, Joffrey looked afraid"

I think the Sansa scene with the heads was almost word for word the same as in the book... just the heads was apparently almost unrecognisable according to the book, and initially facing out, not in. I only read it the other day.

I think they covered Cercei's disapproval with her look at Joffrey as he ordered Ed's execution... but yes, a scene about that would have been more important than the one with Grand Maester shagging Ros, that seemed to be set up only to imply that his shambling weakness was put on as he puts on his stoop as he leaves...

Was a shame not to see Riverrun, and a shame to miss Catelyn's dad, but I guess budgetary cuts in a lot of cases meant that some scenes had to be cut.

I think the book is great, the TV show is great as a TV show in its own right. They've done an incredible job with something many people suggested was unfilmable. And yes, it's never going to have the richness and backstory you get in the books, but we can't really expect it to?

maroule
22-06-2011, 07:56:18
Funko, on Pycelle, yes I believe it's setting up Pycelle as a player in the same vein as the other two conseillors, hiding behind a mask (we know the whore is Littlefinger informant, and possibly Varys informant as well, so Pycelle sends him/them two messages, one that he is loosing his marbles, and second that he supports Joffrey). Pycelle will get more time next season, and I believe this scene will make much more sense then.

interesting article on the NYT, from a non fan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 19, 2011, 10:03 pm Notes on ‘Game of Thrones’
By now, the idea that television serials like “The Sopranos” or “The Wire” are the great popular novels of our time feels like a cliché rather than an insight. But HBO’s adaptation of George R. R. Martin’s fantasy saga is one of the few high-profile attempts to take the cliche and try to literalize it, by faithfully translating a big fat teeming novel into a 10-episode television season. With exceptions like “True Blood,” which is based on Charlaine Harris’s vampire novels (though how closely I’m not sure, as a non-fan of the show and books alike), few of the major cable dramas have been adaptations of existing stories. From Al Swearengen to Walter White to Stringer Bell, the great characters of television’s dramatic golden age have sprung from the imaginations of TV writers, rather than the printed page.

So it’s been interesting to watch how the “Game of Thrones” experiment has worked out. Halfway through, I would have called it a disappointment or even a failure. The season’s early episodes had a worst-of-both-worlds feel to them: Their narratives were slack, rich more in exposition than incident, but even with all the jaw-jaw-jaw it seemed like the plot must be hopelessly confusing and convoluted to anyone who hasn’t read the books. There were times when I was ready to write the show off as a lesson is the difficulties of doing sustained world-building outside of the pages of a fantasy novel. Without the maps and glossaries, interior monologues and history lessons, Martin’s world felt by turns baffling and shallow, a thin and confusing imitation of the richer tapestry available in the books.

But now that the series has wrapped up, I’ve changed my mind: As the story picked up, “Game of Thrones” came into its own, and the final four episodes were great, great television. I was struck by Alan Sepinwall’s analogy to the architecture of seasons on “The Wire,” by far the most novelistic of the all the pay-cable “novels,” and a show that immerses viewers in a world as complicated and unfamiliar as George R.R. Martin’s continent of Westeros:

Seasons [on "The Wire"] tended to be structured the same way many great novels are: slow going in the early chapters as you get to know all the players and stakes, but by the time you get towards the end, all you want to do is keep turning the pages (or turning on new episodes) faster and faster. (It’s why I generally tell “Wire” novices not to sample the series unless they have three or four hours in a row available to sample a bunch of episodes at once.)

“Game of Thrones” is even more literally a novel for television, and these last few episodes have reminded me very much of late-season “Wire” outings. I liked the early episodes a lot, but they had to shoulder a heavy burden of introducing us to this world, these people and all their conflicts and history. We’re largely past all that … and now the story can just hurtle forwards, with the tension building and building as we witness one major event after another.

I would add that the need to hew relatively closely to Martin’s novels (lest they alienate the show’s core audience) has forced HBO to accept dramatic choices — including the shocking death of a major character, and a relatively open-ended conclusion to the first season — that are bold even by the network’s daring standards. (Put it this way: As groundbreaking as “The Sopranos” was, it didn’t end the first season by killing off Tony Soprano and than making it clear that everything we’d seen was just a prelude to an all-out mob war in Season 2.) There’s clearly an artistic advantage to working from a story that wasn’t crafted with the needs of a television network uppermost in mind.

Still, looking ahead to the next season (which will presumably follow the plot of “Clash of Kings,” the second novel in Martin’s saga), two problems persist. One is a problem of scope, which is probably inevitable in any attempt to film a fantasy novel on a television show’s budget. I didn’t love every choice that Peter Jackson made in “Lord of the Rings,” but his movies were remarkably successful at making Middle Earth feel like a real place: From Moria to Helm’s Deep, Rauros to Minas Tirith, the topography and landmarks of a half-familiar, half-alien continent were rendered with amazing verisimilitude, the point where a Tolkien obsessive could rejoice in seeing long-imagined vistas brought to life, and even a non-fan could feel the thickness of Tolkien’s world, its great immersive pull. With Martin’s Westeros, by contrast, you can feel the pinch of budgetary constraints: Huge hordes seem to shrink to a few cantering horsemen, great keeps and cities are glimpsed briefly but left underexplored, battles are pushed offstage, and sometimes the landscape seems like it was cobbled together from the shots that you see on a “Castles of Ireland” calendar. In this regard, “Game of Thrones” can sometimes feel too much like the HBO’s short-lived series “Rome,” (an analogy that Martin himself raised, in an interview before the adaptation of his books began to air), which thrived so long as its action was confined to the back alleys of the eternal city, but struggled when the sweep of Rome’s civil war required a larger canvas.

Barring a sudden outbreak of profligacy at HBO, this is a problem the show’s fans will just have to live with. (Though without an infusion of cash it’s likely to grow more noticeable in subsequent seasons, as the story’s scope expands and military conflict takes center stage.) The other problem, though, can be more easily corrected, so long as the show’s creators are willing to listen to a little constructive criticism. I speak, of course, of the show’s much-mocked reliance on so-called “sexposition” (defined as the use of sex scenes to enliven otherwise dull monologues and conversations), which has been pushed to the point of self-parody and beyond. Martin’s books are filled with sex, to be sure, but it’s generally integral to the plot, and it’s often disturbing rather than titillating, shot through with either the threat or the reality of violence. The show, though, has taken things in a much more exploitative direction: Not content with Martin’s sex scenes, the writers appear to have set themselves the task of including at least one topless woman in every episode, while adding a prostitute character who doesn’t exist in the book, and who seems to have been included just to get naked with as many lords as possible. (It’s as if every episode of “The Sopranos” had featured the same cheerful stripper servicing a different member of Tony’s crew.) In the novels, much of the sex (and sexual violence) feels necessary to the books’ deservedly-praised realism about what medieval life was really like. But when you tack on five extra sex scenes involving a lissome, gold-hearted prostitute, it’s hard to escape the impression that the gritty realities of a pre-modern society are being used as an excuse for soft-core porn.

For a show that just wants to be “The Tudors” or “The Borgias” with dragons, that isn’t a problem. But “Game of Thrones” clearly has classier ambitions, and fulfilling them in upcoming seasons will require a little less exploitation, and a little more, well, class.

Funko
22-06-2011, 08:00:32
Oh another change, I think you don't find out what happens to Arya in book 1... it's just left hanging after the Night Watch guy grabs her.

And Robert's bastard Chris out of Skins going with them!

Fistandantilus
22-06-2011, 08:25:11
:lol: Gendry Funko, he's called Gendry.

maroule
22-06-2011, 08:51:31
yeah, not so sure about the casting, I pictured a more muscular guy (he doesn't look like "he's beating anvils all day long")

Greg W
22-06-2011, 08:57:48
I think it's more setting up Pycelle to be exploited because of his weakness for young girls. Pretty sure that did crop up in later books, though I will have to re-read them to make sure...

Agree about Gendry though. I think he needed much stronger, more muscly looking (aka bodybuilder muscly) arms. I don't pick blacksmiths as having average arms.

maroule
22-06-2011, 09:13:22
(spoilers)



IMO it's not about the girls; Pycelle will be revealed as a Cersei pawn later on, and be confronted directly by Tyrion in a fairly forceful way when he manoeuvre his way as the hand: he needs to have some sort of credibility to be taken seriously as an adversary

Lazarus and the Gimp
22-06-2011, 16:46:47
yeah, not so sure about the casting, I pictured a more muscular guy (he doesn't look like "he's beating anvils all day long")


This series has already had too much non-acting beefcake. They picked a kid with a track record as a good actor, and I applaud that.

maroule
23-06-2011, 07:32:09
yeap, I'd take that too in general, although here it's certainly not a role requiring any actor skill or nuance, it's one of the most unidimensional character in the book (at least so far, could still change in a dance with dragons)

apart from the Dothrakis (you'd indeed think warriors of this age without armour or heavy weapons would have a "dry" muscular structure), I can't think of any obvious/gratuitous beefcakes

The Shaker
23-06-2011, 20:00:45
Oh another change, I think you don't find out what happens to Arya in book 1... it's just left hanging after the Night Watch guy grabs her.

And Robert's bastard Chris out of Skins going with them!

Slightly more surprising was when I realised that Bron (Aka MG) was Jerome Flynn from Robson and Jerome.

Funko
24-06-2011, 07:16:17
Holy crap! It is too. As you said that I could picture it... wow.

Funko
24-06-2011, 07:57:44
Fist :

Following on from what you said on Poly... Ros is in the books.

Proof: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Ros#In_the_books :p

Fistandantilus
27-06-2011, 08:46:48
Pffffffffffffff

maroule
27-06-2011, 15:23:16
i like the casting of the Tyrell princess

Funko
19-08-2011, 11:16:13
1/4 of the way through book 3

there are definitely some challenges to filming book 2, and the cast does continue to expand at an alarming rate.

Fistandantilus
19-08-2011, 11:36:19
Book 3 is the best one imo, stop reading after that :p

And yeah the cast grows but many died too. I assume they can cut on some actors with minor roles or who don't/barely appear (i.e. Jamie)