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Lazarus and the Gimp
24-12-2007, 11:50:52
1- Joy Division.

2- Trip-hop in general.

Funko
24-12-2007, 11:59:30
I used to listen to quite a lot of trip hop at university. Was it actually good or was it just the drugs? :hmm:

Lazarus and the Gimp
24-12-2007, 12:20:11
Much of it was actually good.

Scabrous Birdseed
29-12-2007, 12:17:07
How did I miss this thread?

I've actually started liking Trip-hop a great deal more than I used to. Especially, embarassingly, Portishead - if you look past the wankishness there's a great deal of raw emotion buried in there somewhere.

Joy Division is a definate no-no, though.

Provost Harrison
29-12-2007, 13:30:55
I am sure I remember having this discussion re. Joy Division many a year ago. Still not softened up on them it would seem ;)

Lazarus and the Gimp
29-12-2007, 16:32:32
Trip-hop's 10 greatest moments-

Massive Attack- Unfinished Sympathy
Massive Attack- Karmacoma
Massive Attack- Teardrop
Massive Attack- Angel
Tricky- Hell is round the corner
Tricky- Tricky Kid
Portishead- Sour Times
Portishead- Mysterons
Craig Armstrong- Let's go out tonight
Sneaker Pimps- Six Underground

Scabrous Birdseed
29-12-2007, 20:26:45
Quick YouTube listen:

Massive Attack- Unfinished Sympathy

This one is fairly boring initially, like a wank ravey version of Nelly Futardo's Say It Right (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO6SnX9s5-w). Once the interesting chord changes kick in about half-way trought it's not bad though. Pity they couldn't do that for the rest of it too.

Massive Attack- Karmacoma

They're really bad rappers, aren't they. I'm not feeling this one at all, despite the promising music-piston-thing.

Massive Attack- Teardrop

I've seen this one too often to comment. TV-commercial music.

Massive Attack- Angel

This is pretty much how I understood Trip-Hop to be before - style over substance. Awful, like something out of a post-rock nightmare.

Tricky- Hell is round the corner

Oooh, song structure. Still, this is just a normal pop song isn't it? And fairly close to that Acid Jazz stuff you hate.

Tricky- Tricky Kid

Worst so far, you can't hear what he's saying and the rest of it is totally normal, like DJ Shadow on Lithium.

Portishead- Sour Times

Like I said, I quite like this. It's got a lot more emotionality than the other ones, it's very nicely orchestrated and the music has lots of interesting things going on.

Portishead- Mysterons

Even better. I like the theremin.

Craig Armstrong- Let's go out tonight

Very nice, best song so far. Beautiful, haunting, great arrangement (except the silly echoey drum sound). It does get a little bit over-the-top at times, but I like that.

Sneaker Pimps- Six Underground

This one is also pretty good, but it makes me think too much of Natalie Imbruglia for comfort.

Lazarus and the Gimp
30-12-2007, 09:20:12
OK- we've just established that Scabby likes his Trip-hop as close to conventional orchestrated pop as possible. All the interesting paranoid elements are a no-no.

Lazarus and the Gimp
30-12-2007, 09:24:41
Next challenge.

Just for once, imagine you have never heard these songs before. And then try listening to them.

Joy Division- Transmission
Joy Division- She's lost control
Joy Division- Love will tear us apart

Lazarus and the Gimp
30-12-2007, 09:25:14
Incidentally, we'll be moving on to Nick Drake next.

novacane
30-12-2007, 15:31:56
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Joy Division- Transmission
Joy Division- She's lost control
Joy Division- Love will tear us apart

...and Dead Souls. And Shadowplay. And No Love Lost.

Resource Consumer
30-12-2007, 21:07:03
Get Scabby into Isolation ;)

Resource Consumer
30-12-2007, 21:07:53
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Incidentally, we'll be moving on to Nick Drake next.

Too subtle. Maybe:

5 Scabs Left, Scabby Later, Pink Scab....

Scabrous Birdseed
30-12-2007, 23:53:15
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
OK- we've just established that Scabby likes his Trip-hop as close to conventional orchestrated pop as possible. All the interesting paranoid elements are a no-no.

Did you expect anything else? What you see as interesting I see as pretentiousness. :)

Scabrous Birdseed
31-12-2007, 00:04:39
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Incidentally, we'll be moving on to Nick Drake next.

Shouldn't you focus on easing me into stuff you might actually achieve? I'm considering getting into early industrial.

Lazarus and the Gimp
31-12-2007, 07:49:44
OK- in that case, try these.

Throbbing Gristle- "Hot on the heels of love"
Coil- "Ostia"
Coil- "The Anal Staircase"
Current 93- "Falling back in fields of rape"
Front 242- "Headhunter"
The Young Gods- "Envoye"

King_Ghidra
31-12-2007, 10:11:35
good luck with those on youtube

Scabrous Birdseed
31-12-2007, 13:23:03
In a minute! First, though:

Joy Division- Transmission

This one is okay. Ian Curtis has got a really funny voice, like a fairy badly impersonating a giant. I'm not too fond of the very "noise-mat" type sound in the second half, but this one has a kind of manic energy you don't usually associate with the band which is good. Pity about the nasty, sarcastic lyrics, one of my pet hates in music (cf. Zappa, Sly Stone).

Joy Division- She's lost control

I do like the drum sound, but that's about it. This is goth muzak, music played without conviction or energy, depressive sludge. Would it kill him to cheer up a bit and give it a little oomph?

Joy Division- Love will tear us apart

This one is pretty good - considerably more post-punk than the rest, and I mean that in a good way. I like the wonky rhythmic dislocation between the rhythm section and the melody. Still, I hate the lyrics, the singer and the image, so that kinda taints it.

Scabrous Birdseed
31-12-2007, 13:55:05
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
OK- in that case, try these.

Throbbing Gristle- "Hot on the heels of love"
Coil- "Ostia"
Coil- "The Anal Staircase"
Current 93- "Falling back in fields of rape"
Front 242- "Headhunter"
The Young Gods- "Envoye"

These were all excellent, especially the Throbbing Gristle and Current 93 tracks. Album suggestions?

Lazarus and the Gimp
31-12-2007, 20:24:36
For Throbbing Gristle, "20 Jazz-Funk Greats" or the new one.

Most Current 93 stuff is neo-folk. For the Industrial stuff, the ones to go for are "Dog's blood rising" and "In menstrual night".

Scabrous Birdseed
20-01-2008, 10:51:44
Laz, have you heard any Dubstep? A few years ago it used to be basically grime beats with no vocals, but it's gone in a fairly trip-hoppy direction since then.

A few examples (obviously picked for the "triphoppiness"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MigURCQQA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu4JcoA-pfQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEjRztjlJ0w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3HIWnA3V2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEY4jWPF4B4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugabf04Lx2A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukuje1iWvV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQx_U4Tjd_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FoU5p85vfs

Lazarus and the Gimp
20-01-2008, 12:15:56
I'll park those recommendations until I sort out my broadband (in about a month).

Lazarus and the Gimp
22-01-2008, 17:31:37
Right- next one is Blues. Mainly Delta Blues too.

Leadbelly- "Rock Island Line"
Leadbelly- "Goodnight Irene"
Mississippi John Hurt- "Candyman"
Blind Lemon Jefferson- "Jack of Diamonds"
Robert Johnson- "Hellhound on my trail"
Sonny Boy Williamson- "Fattening frogs for snakes"
Sonny Boy Williamson- "Your funeral and my trial"
Howlin' Wolf- "The Killing Floor"
Howlin' Wolf- "Evil"
John Lee Hooker- "Dimples"
Charley Patton- "Pony Blues"

Vincent
22-01-2008, 18:32:57
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Massive Attack- Teardrop

I've seen this one too often to comment. TV-commercial music.
Hehe, my olde company used it for commercials and for MANY years as a ear torture while waiting on the phone

Scabrous Birdseed
22-01-2008, 18:49:08
I like the Blues, generally, but I find the Chicago and Delta varieties largely overrated (especially the "Old Man Touring Europe" variety à la leadbelly). My favourite of the classic blues types is definately the cool jazz-influenced West Coast blues/Club blues, with names like T Bone Walker, Charles Brown and Percy Mayfield.

Still I'll go through your list as soon as I have time.

Funko
23-01-2008, 09:46:47
I did think we should try and get Scabby into some obscure local music scene from a small third world country, something it's almost impossible to find recordings of in Europe. But it'd be really difficult and I'm lazy.

C.G.B. Spender
23-01-2008, 09:56:15
Like Oonga!

Fergus & The Brazen Car
23-01-2008, 17:56:24
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Did you expect anything else? What you see as interesting I see as pretentiousness. :)


Not at all like bigging up the latest crunk-jazz-noseflute crossovers from Luang Prabang, then.

My favourite of the classic blues types

as opposed to:

but I find the Chicago and Delta varieties largely overrated (especially the "Old Man Touring Europe" variety à la leadbelly).


Yeah, that trad blues is sooo overrated, maaaan.

What, no trumpeting of the little known, but hugely influential Patagonian blues wizards, the Quadriplegic BlindDeaf Boys of Buenos Aires ?

:lol:

Scabrous Birdseed
23-01-2008, 20:19:27
What makes Chicago blues any more "trad" than all of the other types of blues in the forties? It was intentionally underproduced by the Chess brothers, to make it sound more "primitive", sure. But it was still a highly derivative form. Also, remember that the Delta blues itself is a highly standardised variant of earlier blues types, and that the whole research field is mired in myth and uncertainty. Is the blues of a rural area necessarily more original just because it's "behind" the big cities?

You also have to question the attitudes that have promoted the "primitive" black music over the "sophisticated" varaints. Why is Howling Wolf such a big figure in blues but not Ruth Brown? Why has Muddy Waters "outlived" Louis Jordan? Is it necessarily so that music that sounds older is better than music that sounds more modern? What lies behind that attitude?

I think you have to be extremely careful when treading in this sort of territory, because you can certainly view the attitude from one perscpective as being a fundamentally racist one. The blacks cast as the primitive, traditional, old (noble) savage, and those who try to do something different as degenerate, derivates... I think there's a definite problem with that, as indeed there's a problem with most of "world" music which also tends to overfocus on the primitive, the exotic, the old, the safe.

To me there's no problem liking cool new york rhythm & blues like Faye Adams, the honking blues saxophone of King Curtis or blues-oriented vocal harmony groups like the Dominoes, or indeed W.C. Handy-style city clues. I realise all of them outsold the delta and chicago material at the time they were created, maybe that's a problem for you?

Fergus & The Brazen Car
24-01-2008, 16:51:07
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
What makes Chicago blues any more "trad" than all of the other types of blues in the forties?

Because the progenitors of Chicago blues (not all of which was produced by or recorded on the Chess label) tended to be migrants from the Southern states- Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana.

There are several good books on the migration of poor African Americans from the Deep South (including of course, The Delta) to the more industrialized northern states which I can see it might be helpful for you to read...


But it was still a highly derivative form.

Yeah, it 'derived' from the southern African Americans who emigrated to Chicago (and Detroit, Kansas City, Gary, et cetera).

Duh.



Is the blues of a rural area necessarily more original just because it's "behind" the big cities?

Nope. The difference between rural blues and city blues was often one of instrumentation-with many country blues' singers preferring acoustic rather than electric sounds and instruments.

For fairly obvious reasons- electricity was cheaper and more available for people who lived in big cities, or played in city clubs rather than in tents or country gin joints.

Why is Howling Wolf such a big figure in blues but not Ruth Brown? Why has Muddy Waters "outlived" Louis Jordan?

Sometimes being born first helps. Sometimes, being forgotten and rediscovered helps- like with Son House, Alberta Hunter et al.

And sometimes what was popular because it was easier to listen to, falls out of favour.


because you can certainly view the attitude from one perscpective as being a fundamentally racist one.

Ironic coming from the person who accused Sly Stone of being 'patronizing' and all but suggested he was a house n-gger.

Short memory span ?


I think there's a definite problem with that, as indeed there's a problem with most of "world" music which also tends to overfocus on the primitive, the exotic, the old, the safe.

Yeah, it's only really authentic if they stick a synth or disco beat on it. I mean, who wants to hear Balinese gamelan if ain't got electric guitar plastered all over it, or a Japanese shakuhachi that isn't playing a cover version of a Shakira song ?

It isn't a case of either/or- there's a reason institutions like the Smithsonian tried to record rural and country blues- and the Gullah church music of the East coast of the United States. Because in many cases, if they didn't, it would have gone unrecorded and unheard by a great many people.

I see no contradiction in listening to the Missa Luba and Angelique Kidjo.

I realise all of them outsold the delta and chicago material at the time they were created, maybe that's a problem for you?

No, the only problems I have are with false dichotomies and misinformation.

especially the "Old Man Touring Europe" variety à la leadbelly).

Could you tell us when exactly you think Leadbelly toured Europe ? And why, if he did, it's a problem for you, but not when T-Bone Walker (whom you claim to prefer to him) does it ?

He (T Bone Walker) journeyed overseas on the first American Folk Blues Festival in 1962, starring on the Lippmann & Rau-promoted bill across Europe with Memphis Slim, Willie Dixon, and a host of other American luminaries. A 1964 45 for Modern and an obscure LP on Brunswick preceded a pair of BluesWay albums in 1967-68 that restored this seminal pioneer to American record shelves.

European tours often beckoned. A 1968 visit to Paris resulted in one of his best latter-day albums, I Want a Little Girl, for Black & Blue (and later issued stateside on Delmark).



http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/t_bone_walker/bio.jhtml

Hint- Leadbelly didn't even get to complete his sole European tour.

Lazarus and the Gimp
24-01-2008, 19:44:03
You also have to question the attitudes that have promoted the "primitive" black music over the "sophisticated" varaints.


I wouldn't bother attaching a racial agenda to it, because it's true of white artists too. People will be singing Ramones songs long after Emerson Lake and Palmer are forgotten. People will still prefer Cricket's-era Buddy Holly to the syrupy and over-produced later Buddy Holly.

In Blues-derived music, regardless of the colour of the artist, less is usually more.


Why is Howling Wolf such a big figure in blues but not Ruth Brown?


Easy. Howlin' Wolf was the greatest Blues singer of them all.


Ultimately, jazz-blues sounds like sophisiticated cerebral musings, while Delta Blues is an unbelievably haunting howl that sounds like broadcasts from another world. I know which I prefer.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-01-2008, 16:01:41
I can respect Laz's attitude but I'm not going to even attemt to piece together an answer to that huge, sprawling troll flame. It's a damn thorny issue in whatever case and I don't think falling back on the "it's just higher quality" without thinking of who decided what quality is and how they decide it is a particularly fruitful approach. But maybe it just is higher quality?

I've been trying to piece together some thoughts on this and related issues in my blog.

http://downwithtunes.blogspot.com/2008/01/problematic-issue-of-white-audience.html

It's a damn huge topic though so I might change my mind eventually.

Fergus & The Brazen Car
28-01-2008, 14:52:38
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
I can respect Laz's attitude but I'm not going to even attemt to piece together an answer to that huge, sprawling troll flame.

Who's trolling ?


When I see nonsense masquerading as fact (or even in this case misguided 'opinion') I bite.

Having been brought up Catholic, I still have a residual sense that the propagation of error is sinful.

It's a damn thorny issue in whatever case and I don't think falling back on the "it's just higher quality" without thinking of who decided what quality is and how they decide it is a particularly fruitful approach.

It didn't stop you saying that you preferred T Bone Walker's blues to those:

largely overrated...Chicago and Delta varieties..

especially the


"Old Man Touring Europe" variety ?la leadbelly

Imagine- what were Howlin' Wolf and John Lee Hooker thinking, touring places where they weren't being judged for being Southern blacks, but were treated as artists.


Club blues

The funny thing about the Chess Brothers is that they had a string of night clubs/supper clubs in Chicago, where the artists they recorded and promoted could play.

One of the Chicago blues' numbers even lists the names of the clubs and their locations in Chicago. Electric Chicago blues was of course played in clubs. In Chicago.

Oh, and T Bone Walker ? He also recorded and played in Chicago too.

Thanks for the 'unpleasant troll' tag. I cherish it, even now. :lol:

my moderately sloppy attempt at reasoned debate again brough out the race card.

The way I see it, you brought up race- not me.

Scabrous Birdseed
28-01-2008, 16:25:50
I sure did. But in a fairly laid-back tone. What's with the agression? I don't feel like an insult-shouting debate at the moment. Sorry. (Even though I'm right. :p)

C.G.B. Spender
29-01-2008, 08:34:07
You suck, arsohole! Why don't you get a job and leave this place? I'll kick you in the face!

Scabrous Birdseed
29-01-2008, 08:51:01
Well fuck you too you smelly german codger! Your taste in music sucks! You kidnap babies for a living!

C.G.B. Spender
29-01-2008, 09:00:05
Oh yeah?

Scabrous Birdseed
29-01-2008, 09:26:13
If one examines the capitalist paradigm of consensus, one is faced with a choice: either reject the postmaterial paradigm of narrative or conclude that society has intrinsic meaning. It could be said that Lacan uses the term ‘postsemioticist dematerialism’ to denote the bridge between class and sexual identity. Several modernisms concerning subcapitalist nihilism may be revealed.

“Truth is fundamentally unattainable,” says Sartre. However, Lacan’s critique of the postmaterial paradigm of narrative suggests that the law is capable of intent, given that sexuality is distinct from language. Derrida promotes the use of neoconstructive nationalism to read and modify society.

If one examines the postmaterial paradigm of narrative, one is faced with a choice: either accept postsemioticist dematerialism or conclude that the raison d’etre of the writer is social comment. But the subject is contextualised into a that includes art as a totality. Marx uses the term ‘the postmaterial paradigm of narrative’ to denote a self-fulfilling whole.

Therefore, the subject is interpolated into a that includes narrativity as a reality. Debord uses the term ‘the postmaterial paradigm of narrative’ to denote not dematerialism, but predematerialism.

But de Selby[2] holds that we have to choose between postsemioticist dematerialism and capitalist neodialectic theory. Bataille suggests the use of the capitalist paradigm of narrative to attack sexism.

In a sense, the premise of postsemioticist dematerialism states that truth, perhaps ironically, has objective value, but only if the postmaterial paradigm of narrative is invalid; if that is not the case, Foucault’s model of postsemioticist dematerialism is one of “posttextual dialectic theory”, and thus part of the failure of sexuality. If subcapitalist nihilism holds, the works of Fellini are modernistic.

It could be said that the subject is contextualised into a postmaterial paradigm of narrative that includes truth as a whole. An abundance of appropriations concerning the role of the participant as artist exist.

However, Debord uses the term ’subcapitalist nihilism’ to denote a mythopoetical totality. Several discourses concerning neocultural libertarianism may be discovered.

Funko
29-01-2008, 09:27:50
You could just call him a Nazi.

C.G.B. Spender
29-01-2008, 09:43:26
Thanks, I don't need one

Fergus & The Brazen Car
29-01-2008, 14:03:37
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
I sure did. But in a fairly laid-back tone.

Sure you did. By implying that anyone who preferred Delta or Chicago blues to later variants of the blues must have some dubious race-related reason for liking them.

Like I said, quite ironic coming from someone wont to accuse Sly Stone of being a house n-gger. You of course would be speaking from a position of authority there, having toiled in the cotton fields and in the lumber camps for so long...

:lol:

By the way, the only aggression I see being exhibited is in the form of rather old lettuce limp insults in your blog and in your posts here.

'Unpleasant troll'- dear me, I was at university with the Socialist Workers' Party and the R.C.P.- I expect a better class of insult- something with a bit of vim and vigour.

As for being right- I'm sorry, but a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations about the Chess Bros., Leadbelly and the Lomaxes don't really pass muster. Your lacunae are showing....

Scabrous Birdseed
29-01-2008, 16:10:02
Young man, I don't like your tone. I think it's time for a time out, don't you think? Go sit in the corner until mommy says otherwise.

Scabrous Birdseed
29-01-2008, 16:23:32
No but seriously - CG isn't the place for rambling, sardonic debates. I come here to discuss music in a friendly atmosphere, not to have insults hurled at me.

I've been very careful in this thread to tone down anything that might be considered offensive towards posters here, carefully considering their (non-insult-hurling) arguments, deliberately opening up for counter-discussion, using terms like "could be construed as" instead of making bald assertions... I obviously must have touched a raw nerve with something I said, but I certainly didn't mean to.

I have no intention of continuing the debate at the level you have set, but if you wish to discuss the issue futher in a normal conversational tone I'm willing to do that, as you see I've continued doing with Laz. Recommended reading before we continue would be Barker and Taylor's "Faking It: The Quest For Authenticity in Popular Music", in case you indeed want "substantiated accusations".

Lazarus and the Gimp
29-01-2008, 21:35:32
Right. Next up is Mid to late 80's Indiepop-

The Chesterfields- "Ask Johnny Dee"
The Primitives- "Crash"
The Field Mice- "If you need someone"
The Soup Dragons- "Hang ten"
The Blue Aeroplanes- "Jacket hangs"
The Wedding Present- "Brassneck"
The House of Love- "Christine"
Danielle Dax- "Cat House"
That Petrol Emotion- "Big decision"

Scabrous Birdseed
29-01-2008, 23:00:53
I'm going to get to reviewing all of these in a second, but could someone tell me what song the intro of the Blue Aeroplanes song reminds me of? It's driving me absolutely insane.

Debaser
30-01-2008, 01:29:01
Dunno, could be lots of things. Paradise City starts a bit like.

Fergus & The Brazen Car
31-01-2008, 15:00:42
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Young man, I don't like your tone.

Am I meant to give a shit ?


No but seriously - CG isn't the place for rambling, sardonic debates. I come here to discuss music in a friendly atmosphere, not to have insults hurled at me.

I haven't 'hurled' any insults at you. You'll know if I do. You were first out of the traps with the feeble insults.

I obviously must have touched a raw nerve with something I said, but I certainly didn't mean to.

I don't like the life and work of people like the Lomaxes and Leadbelly being dismissed so airily and with such little justification.



in case you indeed want "substantiated accusations".

If you make accusations about the Lomaxes, Leadbelly, Memphis Slim et cetera (in your blog or elsewhere) I expect to see it backed up- not be directed to a book I have no overwhelming desire to read.


The Lomaxes:

While he was in Parchman, Bukka White made two recordings for the Library of Congress- one of them was the traditional ' Po' Boy ' , sung to a tune of his own. These recordings were made 'in the field' by John A. Lomax and his son Alan Lomax, to whom must go the main credit for the extraordinary collection of Negro folk music in the Archive of American Folk Song in the music division of the Library of Congress. Their tours commenced in 1933 (!) in a Ford car which ' carried a 350-pound recording machine- a cumbersome pile of wire and iron and steel- built into the rear of the Ford, two batteries weighing seventy-five pounds each,' a microphone, many accessories and 'scores of blank aluminium and celluloid discs.' Their tour took them through Texas, Lousiiana, Mississippi, Tennessee and Kentucky and later to Florida, Alabama Georgia, the Carolinas and Virginia.

from 'Back To Mississippi' Chapter 11, 'The Story Of The Blues' by Paul Oliver.

Leadbelly:

When the Lomaxes were recording at the Louisiana state penitentiary at Angola in 1933 they encountered a 'trusty' laundryman with a scar, who claimed to be the 'King of the Twelve String Guitar Players of the World'.

He was Huddie Ledbetter, called 'Lead Belly' by his fellow convicts and now generally known as 'Leadbelly'. His discoverers soon found that his claim was not an idle boast; he was the most impressive single artists that they had encountered in many years of fieldwork. But Leadbelly had led a violent life and had served time for murder, attempted homicide and assault. He recorded at Angola for a second time in 1934. Soon after he was released, and John Lomax employed him as his driver; within six months Leadbelly was introduced to the world of folksong enthusiasts in New York.

It is possible now to view Leadbelly for what he was, an exceptional songster with an unrivalled repertoire of more than 500 songs.

from 'Songsters and Proto-Blues', Chapter 2, Paul Oliver, in 'The New Blackwell Guide To Recorded Blues' edited by John Cowley and Paul Oliver.

How did you sum up Leadbelly ?


largely overrated (especially the "Old Man Touring Europe" variety à la leadbelly).

Mmm, very detailed that analysis.

As for the Chess Brothers 'deliberately underproducing' their records-

For three years Len and Phil set up a small studio in the back of a store and recorded local talent (in Chicago).

...Len and Phil discovered that the tough, downhome blues played by Muddy Waters, Robert Nighthawk and Baby Face Leroy was what the black population of The Windy City wanted to hear (the Chess Bros. first releases being five albums of vocal/jazz recordings).

Twice a year, Len Chess headed south with portable recording equipment hoping to find new artists to record. They also used the services of southern recording studios and talent scouts to find artists for their label. Men like Sam Phillips- owner of Sun Studios; Ike Turner- pianist bandleader, and talent scout scout Stan Lewis- owner of Jewel Records all sent demo discs, completed recordings and even sent the artists themselves to the Chess headquarters in Chicago.

Sleevenotes to the promo compilation album for the 'Chess: Legendary Masters Series'.


the place for rambling debates.

But it is the place for the worst kind of Po-Mo pseudo-intellectual inna Continental stylee wanking into the wind- like this twaddle:


If one examines the capitalist paradigm of consensus

I omitted the rest due to its resemblance to the worst kind of masturbatory Kristeva like drivel....

I have no intention of continuing the debate at the level you have set, but if you wish to discuss the issue futher in a normal conversational tone I'm willing to do that, as you see I've continued doing with Laz.

Please don't attempt to patronize me- you haven't the wit or the cojones.

Funko
31-01-2008, 15:31:38
Er... the

If one examines the capitalist paradigm of consensus

post was a (copy and pasted) joke.

C.G.B. Spender
31-01-2008, 15:41:20
Tis true nonetheless

Scabrous Birdseed
31-01-2008, 15:53:40
I'm feeling distinct DialecticMaterialist vibes coming on. :gasmaske:

Can we please return to the original topic? I'll post those reviews tonight if I have time, unfortunately I'm at night school until nineish.

Fergus & The Brazen Car
02-02-2008, 15:43:23
Originally posted by Funko
Er... the



post was a (copy and pasted) joke.

Sorry, having been directed to his blog, I couldn't see any great difference between what was written there and that turgid slab of constipated prose.

Does this mean Scabby's blog is a joke too ?


;)

Funko
04-02-2008, 09:09:33
No, but he doesn't actually take himself as seriously as he sometimes comes across online.

Vincent
04-02-2008, 18:02:54
Well, neither do I