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View Full Version : My set of values is soon to be known as no set of values


SuperCitizen
24-07-2007, 22:21:41
I don't know man.

Only the good ones :bounce:

SuperCitizen
24-07-2007, 22:55:13
There's no business like business business

VetLegion-
24-07-2007, 23:09:37
:lol: classic.

This forum is ... can be improved. I accidentally logged out a couple of days ago and, get this, there is no "log in" button! Nowhere! I looked. And I didn't know my password anyway. But I went through the procedure of getting a new one and logging in just to say this - respect.

I agree with the first post almost word to word. Of course, I draw the line at the knives-and-nipples thing.

I'm going to read the second post tommorow, I'm too tired now.

SuperCitizen
24-07-2007, 23:13:49
Monkey!

Oerdin
24-07-2007, 23:21:15
The log in is at the forum root screen.

ruGGed
24-07-2007, 23:48:18
as per Pekkan tradition...

:beer:

piece™

JM^3
25-07-2007, 00:11:00
I am suspicious of this post because it doesn't have cock as a central motif.

JM

SuperCitizen
25-07-2007, 00:35:44
SPARTAA!!!

Koshko
25-07-2007, 00:50:05
You really need to find a much smarter place than here to post at. :lol

SuperCitizen
25-07-2007, 00:54:56
Sunshine.

Lancer
25-07-2007, 01:10:05
'BE' the fruitfly.

Oerdin
25-07-2007, 01:12:40
What about the coffee?

Lancer
25-07-2007, 01:18:27
Yes, 'BE' the fruitfly AND the coffee.

KrazyHorse
25-07-2007, 02:08:09
Originally posted by VetLegion-
:lol: classic.

This forum is ... can be improved. I accidentally logged out a couple of days ago and, get this, there is no "log in" button! Nowhere! I looked. And I didn't know my password anyway. But I went through the procedure of getting a new one and logging in just to say this - respect.

:lol:

Just click "reply" and you'll go to a login screen

:lol: :lol:

Lazarus and the Gimp
25-07-2007, 05:22:40
Originally posted by JM^3
I am suspicious of this post because it doesn't have cock as a central motif.

JM

Originally posted by SuperCitizen
I think I'll get a soulmate and a beach house somewhere nice, where we can jam monkies up our butts and sing Doors loudly while nude

He's become a Bottom.

Oerdin
25-07-2007, 05:25:45
At least he's found his dream. ;)

JM^3
25-07-2007, 06:49:59
It's good to experience growth.

JM

Drekkus
25-07-2007, 09:53:59
Originally posted by VetLegion-
:lol: classic.

This forum is ... can be improved. I accidentally logged out a couple of days ago and, get this, there is no "log in" button! Nowhere! I looked. And I didn't know my password anyway. But I went through the procedure of getting a new one and logging in just to say this - respect.

I agree with the first post almost word to word. Of course, I draw the line at the knives-and-nipples thing.

I'm going to read the second post tommorow, I'm too tired now. Was that first post all about improving the CG site???

Funko
25-07-2007, 10:02:48
I think he was saying that Finns suck. Which we all knew.

Drekkus
25-07-2007, 10:29:07
laz said that a few years ago, but funnier

MOBIUS
25-07-2007, 10:34:12
Pekka is the new Darkstar?

Mr. Bas
25-07-2007, 10:43:23
It seems so. A drunk and Finnish version, but equally prone to rambling.

SuperCitizen
25-07-2007, 23:27:45
I like cheese.

SuperCitizen
26-07-2007, 00:54:49
jesjes

MOBIUS
26-07-2007, 09:05:25
Pekka seems to have miraculously unDarkstarred himself...:eek:

Mr. Bas
26-07-2007, 09:29:48
He has now transformed into mr_g. Damn.

MOBIUS
26-07-2007, 09:31:05
I wonder who he'll become next?

He's a shifty one, this Pekka...

Dyl Ulenspiegel
26-07-2007, 10:24:21
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Pekka seems to have miraculously unDarkstarred himself...:eek:

He has devalued.

VetLegion-
26-07-2007, 18:37:10
SC you might not be aware that I still have your tirades open in another tab.

Now, you obviously erased them because you have good reasons to not want them available to the public any longer.

How good are your reasons? I will repost them unless you convince me otherwise. I accept euros, dollars and yes, even Yen. Start convincing me :cute:

Resource Consumer
26-07-2007, 18:45:52
Dollars aren't worth much these days. Renegotiate.

SuperCitizen
26-07-2007, 20:35:29
VetLegion, I don't want you to repost them but if you do it regardless, then you just do it. So basically I'm saying you have no barganing chips over me. This isn't reverse psychology either. I never compromised myself.

So why did I do it, why did I erase all the posts? It had too much of a negative tone to them. People will get the wrong idea. I wasn't saying that the world is BS and that we are all crap, but you might get the feeling that I did. Well, it's not what I claimed. I believe in the opposite actually.

But I don't like the way concepts and abstractions have come to dominate our thoughts as truths of the matter. But that is exactly what the "society" has done in the past quite visibly. Somehow we don't know our history so we take them as truths, not as something that was made up.

An example? I'll give you an example. I was talking about the law and the penal system before. It is crucial to understand, that modern society and penal system is not punishing for the crime. OK? We think that ok you do this crime and then you get punished according to the codes we have, we've got judges and they'll do their job.

This couldn't be furthest from the reality. We've long abandoned the idea of punishing for the crime. What am I doing here? I'm giving you an example where concepts aren't truths, but we believe they are, because we are gullible little fuckers. This isn't a conspiracy theory either, don't mix it up with those things.

As I talked about punishment earlier, we used to relate pain and punishment together. You fuck up, we torture your ass publicly. This is an honourable punishment and you'll come out of it with your self respect restored, then again you die in the end but that's no the point. The point is, you did a crime and the only thing we saw is what your social class is so do we decapitate you (for higher status people) or do you deserve something less when executed.

So it's obvious we saw crime differently. There's 3 sides in it. The criminal, the act and the punishment (plus judging). We even today think that the punishment is ruled according to the act. Seems logic enough, but the fact of the matter is the act has very little to do with the punishment. We have the idea that judges and all these legal people do the interpreting of the codes, but it couldn't be more of a mistake to think that.

Ever since the penal system and codes changed, we punish the soul and mind of the criminal. We're taking away your freedom, we're taking away your money, we're taking away your possibility to have sex etc. We don't have as much corporal punishments these days because we don't need them. When the economy was building up, people didn't have money or stuff, how do you punish them? You can't take away stuff, so you direct it to their bodies. Now we can take away, since people have stuff.

The notion of the punishment in that regard remains the same, however, we've got all kinds of semi-judges in the process now. We got psychiatrists, psychologists, experts on what ever. They judge the criminal as well, because their recommendation will play a heavy role. And what do they actually do? Adn this is the key, they give the judges an expert opinion about the mental state of the criminal, can they be 'fixed', do they have a future in 'our society' and so forth. Can they be re-educated.

This weighs in heavily when the punishment is delivered. So it is very obvious, that the act and the punishment are not 1:1, the punishment depends upon the individuals facing the music. So we're judging the person, not the act. It's very simple. But we somehow think this isn't so, until we realize in our little minds how things work. Most of us never come to the realization, because we buy into sayings, the must be truths, the common sense of whatever.

This ALL relates to 'rehabilitating people'. What it means is we want them to act and think like the said society wants them to act. It's not just controlling their physical movement, it's actually about 'do you fit in here, do you agree with us or are you a lost soul'.

That's way different from the old penal codes and system, where it was more direct.

"I got chewed up by the system" is a saying too, you know? The faceless system eats up people. I'm not talking about people being guilty and not guilty. I'm talking about the system. It takes away from the need of responsibility, because we have this concept that we think is real. It isn't very real though, but the consequences of us believing in it are real, so in a way it can't be disregarded.

So what you should take away from this is that the penal system is not what you think it is. It is in fact a way to control people, not just the criminals but mostly the rest of us. We got people in our pay rolls, who read few books written by some douchebag, and now we can label people as perverts, deviants, all kinds of labels that makes them different from us and it means they are broken and should be fixed.

We accept it because we think our society is good. We assume that we have the freedoms. Then again we might live in a very different society if the old rules prevailed as crimes that are no longer so serious. We have the idea of people being broken and that we must fix them 'back to normal'.

What is normal? Are we normal? Is normal good? Does normal exist? I dont' know, but I do know that we're trying to 'fix people' according to what ever rules someone made up when they were most likely high and I do know that a lot of these things are political weapons used to control people. Do not think conspiracy theory, it's got nothing to do with conspiracies.

I'd just wish that people would see things without the contaminated minds of assumed concepts and their truth effects, but rather see them as they are and question their purposes. Do we need penal system and codes? Sure. But let's not assume it works as we think it works, it has far bigger implications.

And that's just the development of penal system in the last 200 years. Let's pick up some other issues, eh? Let's strip our minds off of what we were told as kids and really examine the entities and institutions of power around us. Pretty soon you'll have to ask yourself the state of the society as well as the reality of it.

So next time I go "fuuuck, why do I need a permission for this?", then some fat chick tells me, "listen man, be appreciative of what the society does for you..". Well, you'll get the idea. You'll understand why I'd like to punch that person's face in and tell them to fuck off and go read a book or two.

Vincent
26-07-2007, 20:35:40
How about deutshmarks

SuperCitizen
26-07-2007, 20:41:13
OK the turning point of this whole thing was article 64, which basically states that if a person is insane, they should not be punished. Basically the act disappears, the crime disappears.

We've long since abandoned the idea that is quite OK. We now interpret it differently. If crime occurs, there already is an implication of insanity. You don't have to be insane to be automatically suspected being insane, and then we have the secondary judge system alreadyin play with all kinds of "experts".

It's all about can we make you different. It's got nothing to do with insanity and the acquittal of the act anymore.

Vincent
26-07-2007, 20:43:48
So, what alternative do you suggest?

SuperCitizen
26-07-2007, 20:49:21
And I come across the same shit in my line of work all the time. It seems to me I'm the only one not judging hackers, certain type of hackers that is. It seems to me I'm the only one in my place to realize there are different types of hackers and beliefs.

OK, so a moral problem for me in it. When I'd see some botnet crap or really just unskilled teens DoS:ing servers and being twats and they get caught pretty fast, you know.. GOOD. They were fucking idiots. But rarely deviants or perverts. They were unskilled wannabes, most likely just wanting some peer recognition and appreciation, a status of some kind.

But then to more skilled players, and we talk about breaching what ever core security of an entity that is linked to national infrastructure or whatever and suddenly it's serious as hell. But as I profile the player in my mind, I already see they're not a threat. It's just some dude, perhaps a brilliant one, exploring the virtual world. Going where we've set up "FORBIDDEN" signs all over. Unless they're into selling information or causing crashes, I really can't say anything bad about them. In fact, they could be working for us, but most likely the education system fucked it up for them being boring and inable to have any kind of flexibility that took them down to this path. It's just another failure of the society. We're making virtual sides, enemies, when we don't have to. And we're punishing them for being smart. The smarter you are, the more serious it gets.

It doesn't matter what you did, OK? I earlier pointed out the crime doesn't match the punishment but the person. So if some low skilled asshole crashes a server, you know, here you go, here's your fine since we know you can't do anything more.

But if it's someone skilled, someone brilliant, someone who doesn't buy our BS... the hammer comes down HARD. It's not what he did, it's what he COULD have done. We're punishing him for his mind, that is more advanced than the average. It's got nothing to do with the act but bhe possibility and the future. And then we just made a grave mistake again, we punished intelligence and we punished it and a) made an enemy or b) killed a brilliant mind.

SuperCitizen
26-07-2007, 20:50:12
Vincent, Read it again, you're asking a question that doesn't relate to my posts.

SuperCitizen
26-07-2007, 20:59:01
So that's the change in the penal system in the last few centuries. It has very little to do with "humanity" or us being more civilized.

It has to do with us being more apt shaping and controlling people. We've gotten to be so good at it, that now there's this system taking care of it.

Drekkus
26-07-2007, 21:00:47
Ah, good old Dutchmarks. Those were the Talerdays.

Vincent
26-07-2007, 21:06:08
Originally posted by SuperCitizen
Vincent, Read it again, you're asking a question that doesn't relate to my posts. I learned that from my boss

Vincent
26-07-2007, 21:07:56
so, who else could do the job?

Resource Consumer
27-07-2007, 09:24:35
I give it 5 Darkstars

Dyl Ulenspiegel
27-07-2007, 09:37:31
And 2.3 Qweegles.

Aredhran
27-07-2007, 09:38:03
How much is that in MichaelTheGreats ?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
27-07-2007, 09:44:05
A 6.2 on the pompousness scale.