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TCO
24-07-2007, 04:52:11
The need for having a basic language to learn from:

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2006/09/14/basic/index.html

I liked Basic8 and the fundamental and easy comp sci class at USNA in the 80s. Years later, my uncle a real mathematician and engineer (heat transfer problems) said that all you needed to know was if-then-else and for-next. And that he solved problems at home using basic and then lied to his bosses at work and said it was C. Since they thought the answers would be better from a fancier language.

that said, I think this article misses a trick with Excel. That is certainly a tool that lets you see built up results.

Interested in Asher's take.

Funko
24-07-2007, 09:03:11
That article would have more weight if I didn't think immediately "Wait, you can't download BASIC for Windows somewhere?" and find that in fact it was stupidly easy to find. Just type BASIC into google the link below which gives you BBC Basic for all versions of Windows, DOS and Mac OSX with at least an 8k demo version for free. So it's utter bollocks that you can't get it.

http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcbasic.html

But Basic was really good when I was 5-10 or so and it was cool to be able to write simple sprite based 'games' in machine code on the C64. I wouldn't have a clue where to start doing stuff like that on a Windows machine. I reckon every young kid would enjoy

10 PRINT "TCO smells"
20 GOTO 10

Fistandantilus
24-07-2007, 11:07:59
If you coded c64 basic you're old - FACT

I know i am :(

Funko
24-07-2007, 11:10:06
I wrote programs on a ZX81...

TCO
31-07-2007, 05:03:12
Glonkie?

Asher
31-07-2007, 05:04:30
He's actually a really good programmer. For an engineer.

Vincent
31-07-2007, 05:11:41
Seems the times of nerdification are over! Hoorah!

Debaser
31-07-2007, 06:42:52
Originally posted by Funko
10 PRINT "TCO smells"
20 GOTO 10

Jeez Mike, even I know that...

10 PRINT "TCO smells";
20 GOTO 10

...is much better.

Drekkus
31-07-2007, 07:35:09
Took me some time to see the difference

Debaser
31-07-2007, 07:36:56
It's the difference between:

TCO smells
TCO smells
TCO smells
TCO smells
TCO smells

and:

TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells etc

Drekkus
31-07-2007, 07:38:01
the second one is more annoying, thus better

mr_B
31-07-2007, 07:43:50
he's right

Drekkus
31-07-2007, 07:46:19
it even gives the feeling the words are almost in italics

MoSe
31-07-2007, 08:42:05
Originally posted by Debaser
It's the difference between:

TCO smells
TCO smells
TCO smells
TCO smells
TCO smells

and:

TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells TCO smells etc

did you actually code and execute them, and pasted the output?

Funko
31-07-2007, 08:44:08
Yeah, I wanted the latter, much more annoying.

Debaser
31-07-2007, 08:44:37
Of course not.

MDA
31-07-2007, 11:33:13
Originally posted by Fistandantilus
If you coded c64 basic you're old - FACT

I know i am :(

What if I coded Commodore Vic20 Basic... :nervous:

Aredhran
31-07-2007, 14:38:33
Originally posted by MDA
What if I coded Commodore Vic20 Basic... :nervous:

Then you're either OldWarrior or chagarra...
:lol:

Scabrous Birdseed
31-07-2007, 14:44:52
I coded Commodore 64 Basic when I was 8. I don't remember any of it any more.

Liked the Sinclair Spectrum I had when I was 6 better.

Tizzy
31-07-2007, 14:48:56
I had an Atari I learnt BASIC on. I used to write little programmes to play music but even the quickest BPM setting was too slow for what I was trying to do :(

Scabrous Birdseed
31-07-2007, 14:52:48
Speedcore?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ5uAWUQ4Yk

MDA
31-07-2007, 16:08:44
Originally posted by Aredhran
Then you're either OldWarrior or chagarra...
:lol:

It was only... 1979, 1980. :lol: not quite 30 years ago

Asher
31-07-2007, 16:50:59
I can read this thing later. If not, poke it sometime later.

The markets are crazy busy and I was gone last week so I'm buried under work. Usually from incompetent MBAs and traders, which adds to the excitement.

MDA
31-07-2007, 17:55:45
is it just me or does Drekkus sound an awful lot like Venom lately?

could be the paranoia acting up again

VetLegion-
31-07-2007, 18:53:44
Brin does have a point. Modern programming environments are usually not as easy and direct as BASIC was (in fact I can't think of a trivial way to draw dots and lines on screen at all).

However, he is underestimating the power of the Web that we have instead. Learning how to surf is becoming essential for kids. From there there are many options and a fine gradation - much finer than BASIC/nothing offered (kids would either get to love BASIC and progress in it or get to hate it and be stuck).

Today a bright kid might come to learn programming like this:

Surfing -> discussion forums -> learning to bold and underline stuff -> vB code -> HTML -> JavaScript -> PHP

Surfing -> gaming forums -> game modifications -> scripting in Python or the like

Surfing -> looking up a hobby -> using an open source application -> trying to make a modification for it -> coding in C++

Surfing -> blogging -> customizing his/her blog -> HTML & JavaScript


That was off the top of my head, there are certainly other ways. One could argue that the multitude of options is going to confuse kids. I disagree. Don't underestimate kids and what they can do with the Web.

Asher
31-07-2007, 19:41:05
HTML is not programming. :mad:

Scabrous Birdseed
31-07-2007, 20:14:21
No but there are several programming languages like PHP that pretty much require a knowledge of HTML to use.

TCO
01-08-2007, 00:24:14
It's interesting, because there is a parallel argument that scientists, engineers don't do enough tin-bending (soldering) and that they lose physical insights into apparatus because of that.