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26-11-2001, 12:59:43
http://www.counterglow.net/article.php?id=genesisofagenre

Snapcase
26-11-2001, 13:27:48
I just realised this essay is a bunch of pretentious tosh written when I was really knackered last night.

Funkodrom
26-11-2001, 13:58:55
I liked it... I think you make a pretty valid point. No-one sets out to be part of a scene, it's the press who designate what falls under what category. A lot of the time the bands involved are just bemused by it.

PosterBoy
26-11-2001, 16:37:03
Mike I have to disagree with that.

There are those who purposely try and get into a scene, but they are the ones who stand a mile and whose music stands out a mile for not being genuine.

I think once some record buyers interest is seen by record company's they all want to have their slice of the action and get a band to compete with an original, and also bands who want fame and try and write songs to fit into a certain genre.


Then there is the rest of us with integrity. :)

Funkodrom
26-11-2001, 16:48:04
Hmmm... OK, what I should have said is that the people who initally become labeled as a 'scene' don't necessarily try to create a scene, you are totally right that people will try and jump on the bandwagon.

C.G.B. Spender
26-11-2001, 23:20:58
Genres are made by the press, music is made by ... damned, what was the name of that guy?

FunkyFingers
29-11-2001, 17:44:26
It's the marketeers who try to contsantly re-label stuff to try to make things fit in to new genres.
Speed Garage, UK Garage, House, Hard House, Trip House? All the same? Well most people would think so, but there's a whole industry behind trying to make people "the next big thing" and the easiest way to do that is to make people think they've got "the next big sound".

Hmm.

Funkodrom
30-11-2001, 10:33:01
UK Garage is like a cross between Hip Hop and house with the beats screwed so that you can't dance to it... OK, I think I could tell you differences between those varieties of dance music you mention. Some things are very hard to classify though.

C.G.B. Spender
30-11-2001, 10:34:39
I hate genres. Espeially when I'm looking for CDs in a store. Is it independent, punk or alternative? Or rock?

Funkodrom
30-11-2001, 10:36:39
In my local HMV they have a Nu Metal and a Metal section. The Nu Metal section has anything with distorted guitars on it which is New unless it's Death Metal or Doom Metal or Black Metal in which case even if it's New it's in the Metal section.

Punk goes in Nu Metal if it's New or the normal Rock and Pop section if it's old.

ARGH!

King_Ghidra
11-12-2001, 13:11:16
genres are created by journalists. period.

but there are other reasons for several bands to appear at the same time with the same style

Bands who play together and listen to each other's music soon know who they like and who they don't and then end up becoming friends with the ones they like and playing together and influencing each other's sound, etc, etc. so that perpetuates the genre. Take slipknot, amen, etc.

In rap often the sound is merely the producer. Take the 'west coast' rap sound. Snoop, Warren G, etc. Those guys are all being produced by the same guy: Dre, so of course the sound is similar.
In fact producers are often behind other genres as well. Take the Seattle sound circa Nirvana. Butch Vig anyone?

In the case of bands like the white stripes, strokes, etc. all these groups are coming out on Sympathy for the record industry records , so obviously their a&r men are picking up a sound that they like.

As the genre becomes labelled as such, other record labels try searching for the next strokes or whatever so a host of similar soudning bands suddenly get signed (and indeed formed by wannabes). Just look at the Britpop phenomenon.

Of course normally as the quality inevitably deteriorates the genre dies.

As for the whole concept, without the genre we would be at a loss to describe our musical ideals with anyone so i can live with it.

Funkodrom
11-12-2001, 14:16:11
I think that Slipknot and Amen are very different musically. Casey Chaos is a compulsive extreme metal collector and knows the Slipknot guys but you couldn't put them in the same genre. OK so they have both been produced by Ross Robinson but so where At the Drive-In and they have absolutely nothing in common with Slipknot. Amen are more like really extreme punk.

I agree with the point about Butch Vig, thing is that really was a genuine 'scene' where there were a lot of bands in the same place at the same time playing stripped down rock. Hard to say whether he had more effect or the bands influenced each other.

I think that sometimes you get whole genres coming out of one really good band that influences the others. It's hard to find a Nu Metal band, however shit, that doesn't state The Deftones as an influence for example.

Funkodrom
11-12-2001, 14:19:54
"As for the whole concept, without the genre we would be at a loss to describe our musical ideals with anyone so i can live with it."

It frustrates me, especially when I'm writing reviews. It feels like there is a pressure to categorise everything. I like music that incites an emotional response in me on some level (not including anger and hatred of the artist involved obviously). That is generally irrespective of genre.

King_Ghidra
11-12-2001, 15:03:52
I wasn't saying that amen and slipknot were necessarily the same genre but making a point about them performing together and being pals - recalling an anecdote by casey chaos who said he and the slipknot lead singer had made a pact that if either one of them compromised their music in any way something bad would happen to their families or something...

Anyway as for the problem of the genre, i just think that this is an inevitable consequence of language and order. You can't pretend that each band lives in isolation because they are all music and inevitably some music sounds more like some other music than some other music (if you follow me :clueless: )

That is to say lions and cheetahs are all big cats although there is a world of difference between them. It's just convenient and natural to compare guitar bands with guitar bands and then subdivide from there. There's no point fighting it. Only idiots care about genres rather than listening to music themselves.

Funkodrom
11-12-2001, 15:34:16
Yeah, Casey Chaos and Slipknot share a great line in bullshit.

King_Ghidra
11-12-2001, 15:48:19
:D