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Scabrous Birdseed
04-01-2007, 09:59:01
We're getting at least another week of sleet and rain when there's meant to be a comfortable snow cover for a month already.

This is the worst winter ever.

Funko
04-01-2007, 10:02:24
Apparently 2007 will be the hottest year since records began. (in the UK anyway)

Scabrous Birdseed
04-01-2007, 10:08:04
How on earth can they posibly know that? The official meterological agencies do 10-day predictions at most, and there's this one guy in germany that does three-month predictions but he's considered a nutcase by authorities in the field.

Funko
04-01-2007, 10:10:02
Apparently, something to do with it being an El Nino year. Linky:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6228765.stm

King_Ghidra
04-01-2007, 10:14:30
so if 98 was the last record, then the world has been getting colder since then... :cute:

Funko
04-01-2007, 10:16:21
You should get a job with an oil company! :beer:

King_Ghidra
04-01-2007, 10:21:13
:D

From what i can see on Wiki it did actually dip considerably after 98, but it's now continuing its steady rise back up to the 98 levels (and probably beyond).

Funko
04-01-2007, 10:25:00
World temperature graphs have become a huge political battleground in the world of science. It's crazy.

MoSe
04-01-2007, 10:26:06
"Hey, we're back in the pan! Coool!"

Venom
04-01-2007, 13:01:01
I'm sorry, measuring 70 years of data against 10,000 years of potential climate seems a little bit silly to me.

King_Ghidra
04-01-2007, 13:05:13
there's only been 10000 years of climate?!

Scabrous Birdseed
04-01-2007, 13:22:00
Yes. Before then it was always a pleasant 20 degrees, sunshine during the day, rain during the night.

Venom
04-01-2007, 14:05:31
The dinosaurs had complete climate control. Then someone set the AC too low and there was an Ice Age. Then climate control was broken.

Funko
04-01-2007, 14:07:12
Originally posted by Venom
I'm sorry, measuring 70 years of data against 10,000 years of potential climate seems a little bit silly to me.

You've got to use the data you have available.

fp
04-01-2007, 14:26:04
True, but clearly that doesn't prevent the data from being worthless.

Funko
04-01-2007, 14:42:20
It's not worthless, but it's limited.

King_Ghidra
04-01-2007, 14:44:43
Like Venom's vocabulary

Venom
04-01-2007, 14:52:30
That's why I make up my own words.

So it is just like global warming data. Excellent analogy KG.

Nills Lagerbaak
04-01-2007, 15:44:28
Check out the increase over the last 200 years with the data from the last 2,000 (which incidentally includes a warm period and mini ice age).....it's going completely off the chart!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

Isn't it a little coincedental that the increase follows the industrial revolution and matched almostr exactly with an associated increase in CO2 ppm

Venom
04-01-2007, 15:52:21
Who recorded the data 2000 years ago?

Scabrous Birdseed
04-01-2007, 15:53:57
Jesus.

Or the arctic ice sheet.

Nills Lagerbaak
04-01-2007, 15:54:02
Jesus christ!

Nills Lagerbaak
04-01-2007, 15:54:24
Yeah arctic ice sheet was my next answer :D

Funko
04-01-2007, 15:58:37
But this is the kind of graph that people have genuine problems with. It's so complicated to even explain what it shows, and the scale is tiny. Your "off the chart" is an increase from an "anomaly" of -0.2 to +0.2.

And the other graphs linked from that show much more variation over longer timescales:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ice_Age_Temperature.png

For example. The ice age peaks one is particularly interesting because it suggests we're actually in a relatively cool point compared to previous interglacials.

Anyway. Very complicated subject and those graphs can and have been manipulated to show a whole range of things. And most of the "data" is estimated and various people have various different ideas about how that should be done.

All in all an insanely complicated subject.

fp
04-01-2007, 16:04:54
Lies, damn lies and etc.

It doesn't snow as much as it used to when I was a nipper, that's all I know.

Funko
04-01-2007, 16:05:56
It hardly ever snowed when I was young, you old bastard.

Venom
04-01-2007, 16:06:06
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Yeah arctic ice sheet was my next answer :D

And that can exactly measure the temparature?

Nills Lagerbaak
04-01-2007, 16:17:13
Using deterium measurements....

"The heavy isotopes of hydrogen and oxygen in rainwater (so-called meteoric water) are enriched as a function of the environmental temperature of the region in which the precipitation falls (and thus enrichment is related to mean latitude). The relative enrichment of the heavy isotopes in rainwater (as referenced to mean ocean water), when plotted against temperature falls predictably along a line called the global meteoric water line (GMWL)."

Nills Lagerbaak
04-01-2007, 16:18:21
I guess the same applies to snow and ice sheets but I am guessing.....

fp
04-01-2007, 16:53:55
Originally posted by Funko
It hardly ever snowed when I was young, you old bastard.

True, but it does so even less now.

:cry: I want to build a snowman.

Oerdin
04-01-2007, 20:43:20
Move to Greenland.

Venom
04-01-2007, 20:55:23
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Using deterium measurements....

"The heavy isotopes of hydrogen and oxygen in rainwater (so-called meteoric water) are enriched as a function of the environmental temperature of the region in which the precipitation falls (and thus enrichment is related to mean latitude). The relative enrichment of the heavy isotopes in rainwater (as referenced to mean ocean water), when plotted against temperature falls predictably along a line called the global meteoric water line (GMWL)."

So it's regional, but it's a global predictor.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-01-2007, 21:15:00
Venom, looking for a job as the oil industry's new lube boy.

Venom
04-01-2007, 22:11:11
I'm just asking. These are questions I have. I don't blindly believe either side.

What's so fucking wrong about asking questions? I guess blindly jumping to conclusions is the only way to go these days.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-01-2007, 22:38:38
Yes. Question are way too sophisticated.

Funko
05-01-2007, 09:19:35
Originally posted by Venom
I'm just asking. These are questions I have. I don't blindly believe either side.

Venom is being sensible! :eek: :eek:

Tizzy
05-01-2007, 09:21:12
Yep, there it goes. Hell just froze over.

Funko
05-01-2007, 09:22:15
Global cooling!

Tizzy
05-01-2007, 09:27:50
Hang on, so Venom just balanced out global warming?
Venom saved the world!! :eek:

King_Ghidra
05-01-2007, 09:29:12
well depending on your definitions of cosmological topology i guess that's extra-planar cooling

King_Ghidra
05-01-2007, 09:30:15
so rather than venom saved the world i think i'd say venom broke hell

Funko
05-01-2007, 09:31:36
Typical Venom. :rolleyes:

Tizzy
05-01-2007, 09:33:27
Panic over.

Venom
05-01-2007, 12:51:00
Hellbreaker. That's a good title.

Beta1
05-01-2007, 20:46:34
I'm wondering which will run out first, the arguments over burning oil or the oil itself.

Might well be a self limiting system.

Also didnt most oil form by the deposition of marine life in sediments at the bottom of warm shallow seas.

Much like the ones we are going to end up with once global warming takes hold and floods much of the low-lieing country. (sorry dutch boys but your toast)

MoSe
08-01-2007, 07:29:23
Anyway (http://www.genesis-music.com/lamb2.htm#Anyway)...

The rocks, in time, compress
your blood to oil,
your flesh to coal,
enrich the soil,
not everybody's goal.