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Cruddy
19-09-2006, 20:49:26
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5674/136354642006091910562327445200sv9.jpg

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/9026/136354642006091910562321248700wu4.jpg

Lurker
19-09-2006, 20:50:48
:lol:

Oerdin
19-09-2006, 21:24:07
"He was in my blind spot"

Skanky Burns
20-09-2006, 07:45:58
The commander told me not to park my plane until I had at least one confirmed kill.

maroule
20-09-2006, 08:45:37
beautiful birds, though
amazing what the russian engineers did with a fraction of our budgets

Funko
20-09-2006, 09:03:55
"our"? the soviet defence budget was second only to the US...

maroule
20-09-2006, 09:29:58
I don't have the figures, but I'm pretty sure that if you compare the budgets for aeronauticaul/space programs of the US vs USSR-Russia, there are several orders of magnitude of difference

"our": I was grouping France and UK with the US on this one, although "we" are probably less prolifigate (but we don't have to cover the whole range)

maroule
20-09-2006, 09:30:51
I'm just realising that I'm inviting a Darkstar contribution here :nervous:

Kitsuki
20-09-2006, 09:59:35
Must... Resist... Temptation.... to make fun of the French military.

Ginfizwithatwist
20-09-2006, 10:00:12
that's hilarious, I mean how do you not see another plane...just imagine how they had to explain it to the base cmdr- err boss........we had a small accident and pranged one of our planes......:lol:

Funko
20-09-2006, 10:23:41
Originally posted by maroule
I don't have the figures, but I'm pretty sure that if you compare the budgets for aeronauticaul/space programs of the US vs USSR-Russia, there are several orders of magnitude of difference

"our": I was grouping France and UK with the US on this one, although "we" are probably less prolifigate (but we don't have to cover the whole range)

Yes... I was questioning your lumping of France and the UK in with the US. Our budgets were way off the Russia, let alone the US.

King_Ghidra
20-09-2006, 12:17:19
As of now Russian (i.e. not USSR) military spending is nothing by comparison with the US.

1 United States $478,200,000,000 (2005)
[...]
10 Russia $21,000,000,000 (2005 est. )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

How it was at the height of the cold war i can't track down. (Which is the stat we're after i know but i thought i should contribute in some small way because i'm interested to keep the discussion going)

Immortal Wombat
20-09-2006, 12:22:04
Interesting that the US estimates for Chinese and Russian spending are twice those of the Stockholm Institute's. :D

King_Ghidra
20-09-2006, 12:25:24
In 1988 military spending was a single line item in the Soviet state budget, totaling 21 billion rubles, or about US$33 billion. Given the size of the military establishment, however, the actual figure was at least ten times higher. Western experts concluded that the 21 billion ruble figure reflected only operations and maintenance costs. The amount spent on Soviet weapons research and development was an especially well-guarded state secret, and other military spending, including training, military construction, and arms production, was concealed within the budgets of all-union ministries and state committees.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mo-budget.htm

So in 1988 according to the 'at least ten times higher' theory, that makes c. $330b on USSR spending

King_Ghidra
20-09-2006, 12:26:23
and according to: http://www.cdi.org/issues/milspend.html

US spending in 1988 was $372.8b

so end result:

not much difference.

King_Ghidra
20-09-2006, 12:32:09
Interesting to find out about USSR spending in the early 50's when the first space and atom bomb races were on. US spending at that time was c. $400b

King_Ghidra
20-09-2006, 12:32:35
Also these stats of military spending i guess won't include the space programs

Fistandantilus
20-09-2006, 12:32:43
Good job KG :)

I'm actually a bit surprised that US spending is nearly comparable to the rest of the world combined.

Funko
20-09-2006, 12:37:32
According to that wiki, the US defence budget is actually 58% of the world spending on defence. It is an incredible stat.

King_Ghidra
20-09-2006, 12:39:33
It has spiked since 9/11 but it seems to have been in the 40%+ range for a long time.

There's a nice easy definition of a superpower for you.

Funko
20-09-2006, 12:41:59
I seem to remember that in the good old days of the empire the standard for the Royal Navy was that it should be as big as the next two largest navies in the world, I guess they took it a step further.

maroule
20-09-2006, 13:19:03
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mo-budget.htm

So in 1988 according to the 'at least ten times higher' theory,


this theory looks like it's been pulled out of someone arse. Why 10 and not 7 or 15?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
20-09-2006, 14:28:43
Originally posted by maroule
this theory looks like it's been pulled out of someone arse.

Yes, CIA estimate.

King_Ghidra
20-09-2006, 15:08:04
Sure, i'm conscious that there are wide-ranging variations in the estimates. Virtually ever source for these kind of figures discusses the difficulty of uncovering the truth from the various ways in which defense spending is hidden, departmentalised or plain lied about.

As mentioned earlier, U.S. estimates of Soviet military spending were off by approximately 100 percent, even as late as 1991. The USSR was able to successfully hide from the world the fact that their "supermilitarized economy," as Gorbachev put in it in Moscow News, was placing unsustainable strains on the Soviet economy and citizens, a situation which eventually led the Soviet leaders to adopt the policy of perestroika.

http://intellit.muskingum.edu/russia_folder/pcw_era/sect_05.htm

Anyway, i think my MoSe moment is over, i'm satisfied that soviet cold war spending was of a factor similar to the US' (as opposed to massively dwarfed by it).