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Oerdin
09-09-2006, 09:58:44
Ali G just came through on this one. In fact just about any Borat video is worth watching.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=borat

mr_G
09-09-2006, 10:14:33
jesjes he's the man

love the one with the american police school

Oerdin
09-09-2006, 10:18:24
"I would like to share a game which is popular in Kazakstan. It is called... Beat the Jew."

Oerdin
09-09-2006, 10:21:18
I should feel bad about this since my girlfriend is Jewish but Borat is harmless. It would be like me getting pissed off at Disney for making Scrudge McDuck Scottish or for the million and one Scottish jokes which are out there. If you can't laugh at a good parody then you can't laugh at anything.

mr_G
09-09-2006, 10:59:16
and he is a jew himself, that makes it funneeeh

Cruddy
09-09-2006, 15:55:26
Apparently he (Baron Sasha Cohen) is about to shed his Borat image and take up the new persona displayed in Taladega Nights.

I'm not convinced the world is ready for a homesexual French racing driver... but what do I know about comedy?

Borat wasn't the big hit in the UK.

maroule
11-09-2006, 07:27:28
Originally posted by Oerdin
"I would like to share a game which is popular in Kazakstan. It is called... Beat the Jew."


Borat is indeed hilarious, but I don't get this one. I've worked for a few months in Kazakhstan, and if I had had to name a country that wasn't antisemitic, I would have picked this one. There aren't many jews there (if any at all), the country is very liberal when it comes to religion (most are sunni muslims but drink and fuck around like good westerners), and of all the massive problems this country has (corruption, Nazerbayev controlling everything, massive polution, etc.), antisemitism is really nowhere to be seen. Baron would find more anti-semitism in about any country in Europe, including England, than in Kz.

He is equating poor = backward = antisemitic, but that's nonsense, and totally unfair in that case

Oerdin
11-09-2006, 08:06:37
It's a comedy routine. Kazakstan was chosen because lots of Americans have heard of it but really don't know much about it so the comedian is free to make shit up about it.

It's just part of his shtick.

Funko
11-09-2006, 08:23:46
the anti-semetic stuff is I think because he is jewish so can therefore get away with it, and it's used to see how many people will let him say stuff without picking him up on it or worse joining in. Eg. the throw a jew down the well song with the crowd singing along

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 08:52:34
Originally posted by maroule
Baron would find more anti-semitism in about any country in Europe, including England, than in Kz. I heard there was a lot of antisemitism in KZ

Drekkus
11-09-2006, 11:12:54
:lol: :lol:

:o

BAD Vincent!! :mad:

Funko
11-09-2006, 11:14:06
I didn't get that one... but now I do. :lol: :o

Tizzy
11-09-2006, 11:15:04
I still don't.

Funko
11-09-2006, 11:15:55
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KZ

Tizzy
11-09-2006, 11:17:28
Oh.
:lol:

maroule
11-09-2006, 11:44:54
Originally posted by Oerdin
It's a comedy routine. Kazakstan was chosen because lots of Americans have heard of it but really don't know much about it so the comedian is free to make shit up about it.

It's just part of his shtick.


I know, but it's one thing to be ridiculed for being poor, and quite another for being anti-semitic, a more toxic and serious accusation. It's esp. stupid when the country in question is one of the few liberal muslim countries where it's not an issue, and esp in the current right wing hysteria about a clash of civilisations.

Funko
11-09-2006, 11:55:48
The whole point of Borat is not that he's ridiculing Kasakstan, he's ridiculing the people he meets and talks to.

maroule
11-09-2006, 12:44:43
oooh, really.... thanks for enlightening me

my point is that for every person who understand that, like your brilliant self, another 5 (who don't really know the show, are a bit slow, are americans, etc) won't and will simply laugh at Baron playing stupid (which is quite funny in itself)

Funko
11-09-2006, 12:46:20
What's your point?

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:01:31
1. Satire is bad because people are stupid
2. You're a sucker

Funko
11-09-2006, 13:05:41
why didn't he just say that then?

Fistandantilus
11-09-2006, 13:07:04
He's french.

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:07:07
1. He's french
2. He likes to type

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:07:54
Originally posted by Fistandantilus
He's french. See, it's the one-size-fits-all explanation from the coneheads!

maroule
11-09-2006, 13:08:12
let me spell it out for you: it's very unfair and probably damaging for Kazakhstan, because it relates to a very sensitive accusation. In case you haven't noticed, there are quite a few people trying to convince us that Islamism is the new fascism (in the words of the US president). Before you know it (and can switch to Fox), it will become "Islam wants to start a new holocaust" (thanks to the Iranian president, this accusation will be flying around soon enough).

That's my point; I'm disapointed that even "enlighten souls" (like Baron, a former pro-peace activist) throw stupid anti-semitic accusations on the very few liberal muslim countries around.

King_Ghidra
11-09-2006, 13:09:53
i think you're taking it too seriously

maroule
11-09-2006, 13:15:54
I'm more sensitive to that than others because

1/ I know what it will look like from Astana
2/ unfair accusations of antisemitism irritate me (and are politically charged)

Fistandantilus
11-09-2006, 13:18:28
Originally posted by maroule
I'm more sensitive to that than others because..

No shit. This one really deserves the "I'm French" answer :p

King_Ghidra
11-09-2006, 13:18:30
is a patently made-up creation the same as an accusation of racism?

if those two things are the same in your head then you're not the man i thought

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:19:19
Ah, it's like the Indiana Jones movies,where the germans are nothing more than "schnell schnell" yelling moronic murderers. And those were made during the cold war, when the germas were the dikes stopping the red flood.
Hmm, this sounds funny somehow ... Like asware

maroule
11-09-2006, 13:24:28
is a patently made-up creation not liable to create any damage?

Would it be fun to make a comedy on a white a guy from Leeds who beats muslims up, say it's a well known local game, and show that in Basra?

Japher
11-09-2006, 13:26:12
I say all bad guys should be North Koreans... but any asian looking person can play them. Oh, and so can Steven Segal... and Sean Connery

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:26:56
At least a better one than Jerry Lewis'

Funko
11-09-2006, 13:26:59
Originally posted by C.G.B. Spender
Ah, it's like the Indiana Jones movies,where the germans are nothing more than "schnell schnell" yelling moronic murderers.

You're comparing the historically accurate portrayals in Indiana Jones to Borat?

Japher
11-09-2006, 13:28:13
funny how they all knew what "no ticket" meant

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:29:03
I like evil japanese. They have funny customs. You can buy used underwear of schoolgirls from a vending machine over there. And little schoolgirl puppets. And some of them hide in the jungle and do not know war is over.
That's freaky!

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:29:36
Originally posted by Funko
You're comparing the historically accurate portrayals in Indiana Jones to Borat? I hate that the germans always lose in the end!

maroule
11-09-2006, 13:32:58
stop moaning, most of the bad guys in US movies nowadays are either brits or french

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:33:27
Because the french ARE evil!

Funko
11-09-2006, 13:34:08
One thing the whole world agrees on.

Japher
11-09-2006, 13:34:58
they also have sill accents

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 13:35:27
And eat weird stuff

Fistandantilus
11-09-2006, 13:35:52
And shit in front of pigs.

King_Ghidra
11-09-2006, 13:36:30
Originally posted by maroule
is a patently made-up creation not liable to create any damage?

Would it be fun to make a comedy on a white a guy from Leeds who beats muslims up, say it's a well known local game, and show that in Basra?

a skewed example, but to answer the question, if it's obviously intended as comedy in some way, why not?

i would have thought you would side with those who advocate freedom of expression rather than those who advocate restrictions on what is considered acceptable

anyone who watches borat and comes away thinking 'i have just seen a factual and informative account of the people of Kazakhstan and their beliefs and prejudices' is a moron who deserves to compound their ingorance

If we have to criticise programs which depict individuals in certain ways on the basis that the character's negative traits cast aspersions on the country of that character's origin then we are fucked. There will be no more programs.

Japher
11-09-2006, 13:41:03
Reminds me of Balki Bartokomous

Drekkus
11-09-2006, 13:41:56
don't be ridicolous

Funko
11-09-2006, 13:45:23
:lol:

maroule
11-09-2006, 14:03:52
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
a skewed example, but to answer the question, if it's obviously intended as comedy in some way, why not?

i would have thought you would side with those who advocate freedom of expression rather than those who advocate restrictions on what is considered acceptable


1/ I am, but within the limits of the likely consequences : in my non skewed and perfectly relevant example, the Leeds comedy would provoque riots and could lead to the death of british soldiers based there now (hell, if an obscure danish cartoon creates riots all over the muslim world...).

So now the moral question to you is: do you accept the risk (on other people's life, since you're not patrolling the Basra streets yourself) in order to defend the principle?

Or do you state that defending a crass comedy is not worth human lives?

2/ Another example: Hizbullah channels show some TV shows where jews kill muslim babies to get their blood and ferment their azim bread. If that was done as a comedy, could that be aired in the US or Europe?

My point (to clarify for Funko): is 'humour' enough of a justification, when there could be nasty consequences?


3/ Besides, while any moron could see Borat is intended as a comedy, there is no indication that the anti-semitic 'joke' is a joke at all: remember that half the US think that all arabs (and all europeans, especially frogs) are rabidly anti-semitic. To the majority of these people, stating that Kaz is violently anti-semitic won't sound as a joke at all.

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 14:10:16
You mean if we continue making fun of Kazachstan it will start a new world war? Oi!

Willi
11-09-2006, 14:14:18
Originally posted by C.G.B. Spender
I hate that the germans always lose in the end! Ja stimmt!

Funko
11-09-2006, 14:17:03
My point (to clarify for Funko): is 'humour' enough of a justification, when there could be nasty consequences?

We certainly shouldn't allow terrorists to dictate what we can or can't say in humour.

King_Ghidra
11-09-2006, 14:18:00
Originally posted by maroule
1/ I am, but within the limits of the likely consequences : in my non skewed and perfectly relevant example, the Leeds comedy would provoque riots and could lead to the death of british soldiers based there now (hell, if an obscure danish cartoon creates riots all over the muslim world...).

So now the moral question to you is: do you accept the risk (on other people's life, since you're not patrolling the Basra streets yourself) in order to defend the principle?

Or do you state that defending a crass comedy is not worth human lives?

2/ Another example: Hizbullah channels show some TV shows where jews kill muslim babies to get their blood and ferment their azim bread. If that was done as a comedy, could that be aired in the US or Europe?

My point (to clarify for Funko): is 'humour' enough of a justification, when there could be nasty consequences?

A valid question, but i side with freedom of speech. You mention the obscure danish cartoon, and i felt the same way about that. Comedy or art, the principle should be upheld. As for the consequences, there is no simple cause and effect. The fact that there are nations where people riot and kill over such things is another kind of problem.

Originally posted by maroule

3/ Besides, while any moron could see Borat is intended as a comedy, there is no indication that the anti-semitic 'joke' is a joke at all: remember that half the US think that all arabs (and all europeans, especially frogs) are rabidly anti-semitic. To the majority of these people, stating that Kaz is violently anti-semitic won't sound as a joke at all.

So you really would advocate dumbing down tv/film/art because bigoted morons can't understand it. That's sad.

Maroule you confirmed my fear, you're not the man i thought. In the battleground of your mind the terrorists and ignorant have won, because you won't risk offending them any more in case they lash out.

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 14:18:05
We certainly shouldn't allow humourists to dictate what we can or can't say in terror.

maroule
11-09-2006, 14:42:02
Originally posted by King_Ghidra

Maroule you confirmed my fear, you're not the man i thought. In the battleground of your mind the terrorists and ignorant have won, because you won't risk offending them any more in case they lash out.

I guess I'll have to live with the crushing disapointment

I don't see why my Borat point was carving in front of terrorists, while I'm defending a poor country that will get shit for something it hasn't done. And yes, most of the americans are uneducated fools when it comes to the rest of the world, so you're responsible of what you're telling them. My Iraq point was to show it's easy, and cowardly, to stick to principles when you're not facing the consequences.

Overall, you're a bit binary, and republican, because my point is larger than terrorism. There is a museum in France showing a lot of 40-44 humor, and we can probably work out a few pretty good damm gags with jews as rats and the like. "Humor" can be a propaganda weapon, inciting racial hatred and delivery all kind of messages. What you're saying is that humor is bigger than anything else, whatever the underlying message, and I flatly disagree. Humor is not a higher value that should kill all debate.

In fact, you're just as big a biggot as the ones you're denouncing, because, as them, you're thinking in terms of absolute. Just replace 'God' by 'Humor', and you're on the same line.

Funko
11-09-2006, 14:43:01
Humour.

Funko
11-09-2006, 14:45:19
ps. As civilians in the UK are targets for islamic terrorists I don't think your "you aren't a soldier in Iraq" really has any weight as we are facing the consequences, just not on such a day to day basis.

maroule
11-09-2006, 14:50:44
Originally posted by Funko
ps. As civilians in the UK are targets for islamic terrorists I don't think your "you aren't a soldier in Iraq" really has any weight as we are facing the consequences, just not on such a day to day basis.

I see, so taking the bus in Reading = patrolling Basra

Funko
11-09-2006, 14:54:45
I am sorry, you are right. The main reason for continued resistance in Iraq is the unfair portrayal of Kasakstan by Borat and Sasha Baron-Cohen must be stopped!!

maroule
11-09-2006, 14:55:56
Originally posted by Funko
I am sorry, you are right. The main reason for continued resistance in Iraq is the unfair portrayal of Kasakstan by Borat and Sasha Baron-Cohen must be stopped!!

straw man argument, have you been watching Fox recently?

Funko
11-09-2006, 14:56:02
And death to any infidels who dare defile the name of Humour.

King_Ghidra
11-09-2006, 14:59:23
So defending free speech makes me a bigot :lol:

Marole has jumped the shark.

"Humor" can be a propaganda weapon, inciting racial hatred and delivery all kind of messages.

No shit, so can any art form. I defend their right to exist equally.

What you're saying is that humor is bigger than anything else, whatever the underlying message, and I flatly disagree. Humor is not a higher value that should kill all debate.


No, non, nein. You just failed reading comprehension.

You are arguing that we should frown upon people who make humour that parodies or makes gain from cultural sterotypes or false accusations. I am arguing that in a civilised society the public must be prepared to use their intellect to make sense of the cultural inputs it receives.

There are many things that occur in art, film, humor, etc. which use real places and events in a fantastic concept, and regardless of whether people find it tasteless or not, if they cannot discriminate between that fantasy and reality then the world is in a very bad place.

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 15:00:41
The problem is not the humour. It's the idiots. Once you stop laughing and pointing at the morons they have won. That's exactly what they want you to do: To shut up and stop mocking them. It's like Poly. Why do all fascists regimes fight humour? Because it has immense power. Didn't you read "the name of the rose"? Or at least Harry Potter? The power of making things look ridiculous.

Funko
11-09-2006, 15:05:20
You are a very powerful man CGB.

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 15:12:12
Powerful? Yes! Because I am your spiritual leader! The mod for mortals!

There has never been a holy war for humour. The all serious men will lead you into education camps and will crush you like worms eventually. Why? Because they can't stand your laughter. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Khomeini - those are the ones who feard laughter! And naming them is such a powerful yet old rhetoric trick even maroule can't fight! ("Poly" was the ultimate (sic!) trick btw). Ah, what the fuck!

maroule
11-09-2006, 15:25:58
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
So defending free speech makes me a bigot :lol:
No shit, so can any art form. I defend their right to exist equally.

check you law book, "free speech" doesn't give you the right to say everything...
FYI almost all European countries ban any "art" that cause racial hatred... probably because they carve to terrorism, right?


No, non, nein. You just failed reading comprehension.

You are arguing that we should frown upon people who make humour that parodies or makes gain from cultural sterotypes or false accusations. I am arguing that in a civilised society the public must be prepared to use their intellect to make sense of the cultural inputs it receives.

There are many things that occur in art, film, humor, etc. which use real places and events in a fantastic concept, and regardless of whether people find it tasteless or not, if they cannot discriminate between that fantasy and reality then the world is in a very bad place. [/QUOTE]

Darling, the world is in a bad place.

Now regarding your reasonning, it has a major flaw, your refusal to draw the line anywhere. Be it free speech or art, there cannot be no limits. Example:

We're basically reliving a debate that was very strong between France and Britain in the 90s', about Finshbury corner and rable rousing Muslims: the French were saying "shut them up, they're recruiting people who come and blow bomb in Paris", the brits were saying "no, free speech above anything else"...

Now apparently, the mood has changed... while the bombs got closer, the brit government and population seem to think limits aren't that bad after all

Coming back to Baron after a wide tour, I reiterate my point; while any moron could see Borat is intended as a comedy, there is no indication that the anti-semitic 'joke' will be seen a joke at all. Saying "people should be better educated" is really too easy a shortcut, and washing your hands at the consequences.

While we all would hope to have you intelligence, we have to live in a world of lesser individuals.

Nills Lagerbaak
11-09-2006, 15:28:17
What's the difference between what Maroule is saying and the banning of anti-jewish sentiment in post-war europe.

Isn't it a case of something being too dangerous for a certain group of people at a certain time, to avoid fueling violence?

BTW I don't agree or disagree.

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 15:31:40
Humour is overrated anyway

Tau Ceti
11-09-2006, 15:37:16
This thread is scary. I get visions of maroule carving obscene wooden figurines in front of a group of terrorists. :nervous:

Funko
11-09-2006, 15:41:16
I've been incited to bomb paris.

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 15:44:58
Originally posted by Tau Ceti
This thread is scary. I get visions of maroule carving obscene wooden figurines in front of a group of terrorists. :nervous:
The tread reminds me of THIS:
CLICK HERE, MORON! (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/spongebob_and_homosexuality.htm)

maroule
11-09-2006, 15:50:33
Originally posted by Tau Ceti
This thread is scary. I get visions of maroule carving obscene wooden figurines in front of a group of terrorists. :nervous:

I you have visions of me making obscene figures, you've watched the sponge bob video

C.G.B. Spender
11-09-2006, 15:53:14
In fact he WAS Sponge Bob

King_Ghidra
11-09-2006, 16:00:29
Originally posted by Funko
I've been incited to bomb paris.

i feel as though i'll be 100-0ed if i mention miss hilton, but i can't help myself

Funko
11-09-2006, 16:04:14
bOmb

Funko
11-09-2006, 16:05:30
(ie, not pronounced like the policeman from allo allo would say it.)

maroule
04-10-2006, 10:07:44
Today in the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1886887,00.html

As with the Rooney lost form debate, we were there first!!
CG is a lab for the media!

Next week in The Times, men eating their own semen

Funko
04-10-2006, 10:23:06
That's actually going to be a feature in the next Observer Food Monthly magazine.

Fistandantilus
04-10-2006, 10:25:08
Good to know Idrissov thinks we really don't know the difference between satirical jokes and reality.

Funko
04-10-2006, 10:28:27
I've learnt more about Kazakhstan as a result of Borat controversy than I would if the movie hadn't come out, all in all, it's a win for Kazakhstan!

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 10:30:24
fuck kazakhstan

Fistandantilus
04-10-2006, 10:31:29
Exactly, now go and explain that to the ambassador.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 10:35:58
"We do to Kazhakstan what you do to sheep, dog and camel. ugh"

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 10:44:51
Originally posted by Fistandantilus
Good to know Idrissov thinks we really don't know the difference between satirical jokes and reality.

Well that was Maroule's argument too.

maroule
04-10-2006, 10:48:47
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
fuck kazakhstan

that's certainly what you do a lot when in Kazakstan

Funko
04-10-2006, 10:50:25
Not more of your anti-kasakh racist humour maroule. :rolleyes:

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 10:52:54
Now for antisemitism.

mr_G
04-10-2006, 11:10:07
i'm against that

Funko
04-10-2006, 11:23:36
There are two things I hate, anti-semitism and...

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 11:27:31
... the french.

mr_G
04-10-2006, 11:29:02
I only hate semitism

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 11:38:26
Now for Republicans.

mr_G
04-10-2006, 11:39:55
I laaik George double U Bush just as much as hemroids.

Colon
04-10-2006, 11:40:23
I hate physicists.

Fistandantilus
04-10-2006, 11:48:34
Originally posted by mr_G
I laaik George double U Bush just as much as hemroids.

You love him so much that you let him take your anus?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 12:44:12
No, that would be Mark Foley, or?

mr_G
04-10-2006, 12:45:05
aluminium?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 12:54:43
gay twat

mr_G
04-10-2006, 13:15:07
you called?

Scabrous Birdseed
04-10-2006, 14:11:50
Hey, I've got this great idea for a comedy routine that's perfectly in the spirit of Borat. I'm gonna pretend to be a carefree, whistling negro by corking my face and wearing bright red lipstick, talk in a comedy jive accent and say "massa" a lot. Also I'd do a bunch of stupid nigger dances and sing happy songs. How about that?

maroule
04-10-2006, 14:17:58
KG already answered to that:

a skewed example, but to answer the question, if it's obviously intended as comedy in some way, why not?

Fistandantilus
04-10-2006, 14:31:00
We also made a poll and 84.7% of the total populations of Kazachistan and Great Britain combined agrees with KG.

Funko
04-10-2006, 14:33:12
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Hey, I've got this great idea for a comedy routine that's perfectly in the spirit of Borat. I'm gonna pretend to be a carefree, whistling negro by corking my face and wearing bright red lipstick, talk in a comedy jive accent and say "massa" a lot. Also I'd do a bunch of stupid nigger dances and sing happy songs. How about that?

:lol: Sounds great.

Nills Lagerbaak
04-10-2006, 14:35:55
yeah it would b very funny but I wouldn't like to see it on main stream television. Some things shouldn't be shown to the plebs.

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 14:37:34
that's maroule's angle

i'm not down with it

Funko
04-10-2006, 14:40:37
I just want it on cool underground tv for us hipsters.

Nills Lagerbaak
04-10-2006, 14:48:37
Does that mean cable is cool and sky is not?

Funko
04-10-2006, 14:51:05
:lol: I guess so.

Nills Lagerbaak
04-10-2006, 14:57:50
Well laughing at the black man was done despite the black man's protests until it became socially unacceptable. I suppose the same thing will eventually happen to people of other minorities, but until then I sympathise with the Kazakh peoples' complaints.

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 15:00:29
no fucking way, this is bullshit and it is fundamentally nothing to do with kazakhstan. this isn't jim davidson putting on a black man's voice so white english people can laugh at blacks, this is someone using a steroetype to ridicule (mainly) white americans

and the argument is that you know, cos we're clever and we understand humour involving outrageous racial stereotypes and parodies for what they are, but, you know, if a stupid person saw it, they might not get the joke and it might make them racist.

i hate that dumb argument, i think i only let this thread go because i was bored.

you know how they tried to get books banned because they might pervert people's morals. anyone who thnks borat shouldn't be shown because it perverts opinions of kazakhstan is basically making the "would you 'wish your wife or servants to read' this?" argument.

So people are so fucking stupid we should vet all their cultural influences and sensory inputs to protect them from the possible consequences to their desires and thoughts.

I'd rather take my chances in the free world thanks.

Nills Lagerbaak
04-10-2006, 15:06:02
woah, calm down your opinion is your opinon.

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 15:07:58
and this is a discussion forum, or didn't you read the sign on the way in

Nills Lagerbaak
04-10-2006, 15:17:26
Yes I'm well aware of that.

I think you misunderstood my argument. These things will continue to get shown until they are made socially unacceptable - hence I accept the Kazakhstani complaints. I am not in favour of banning Borat, but I think it should eventually disapear.

Fistandantilus
04-10-2006, 15:18:21
I'm going to issue a protest about the show The Sopranos because it depicts italians as mafia people. I think the disorders between West Ham and Palermo fans (just to name a few) are directly imputable to the broadcasting of that show. And on top of that it's not funny at all.

Besides, Thought control is a powerful civic (+2 Morale, Police & Probe) you just need to build the Cloning Vats to get rid of the -3 Support and it absolutely rocks.

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 15:19:44
nils you're still saying this is socially unacceptable, i don't understand that angle

anyway the bulk of my comments weren't directed at you, they were directed at all of the anti-borat arguments expressed elsewhere in this thread

mr_G
04-10-2006, 15:20:16
what's wrong wizz that you all are mafia pll aren't you
btw i walk on wooden shoes all the time
and when i see a dyke i always put my finger in her.

that will teach her

Nills Lagerbaak
04-10-2006, 15:22:49
I think it is socially unaceptable to laugh as a nation at a black man in a country where the black man was a second class citizen. The Kazakhstani situation is not exactly the same but there happens to be an anti-muslim crusade on at the moment.

maroule
04-10-2006, 15:23:26
As I said, it's very unfortunate he picked Kz as a symbol or bigotery and anti-semitism, because it's the most tolerant country in the region (racially at least, it's still pretty much a one man band politically). It would have been more relevant to pick Tadjikistan or even Turkmenistan. The joke would have been the same and at least he wouldn't hit the wrong target (apparently he picked KZ randomly). For a Cambridge graduate, his geopolitics suck.

And despite what KG thinks, even if people see the joke, it will still consolidate, objectively or subjectively, the opinion that Kz is a shit hole (which it is not). Whatever you say, it will have a negative impact on the country and its people. Is that the price to pay for a good joke? As we're not suffering from it, it's easy to brush that away under an generic open minded principle. It's always easier to be generous when you don't pick up the tab.

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 15:25:52
Sure, but the middle class white western european picks up the tab for countless jokes every day

ever read dilbert? dilbert negatively satirizes my entire existence every single day.

so why not let the kazakhs have a go on the world stage too

Colon
04-10-2006, 15:35:41
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
and this is a discussion forum, or didn't you read the sign on the way in

Obviously, there is an urgent need for a forum where we can talk gibberish.

maroule
04-10-2006, 15:40:50
true, and fine, but you'll remember I'm mainly shocked by the anti-semitic accusation. This is really toxic, even more so in the current context of demonization of Islam.

For the rest, I have no problems, as French I'm used to be ridiculed, and it should be Kazaks' turn all right

mr_G
04-10-2006, 15:41:41
Originally posted by Colon
Obviously, there is an urgent need for a forum where we can talk gibberish. jesjesjes

Funko
04-10-2006, 15:41:42
The show would have been better if Borat was from France but with the same jokes. :lol: :lol:

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 15:43:29
there's no way those americans would have welcomed him if he was french

Funko
04-10-2006, 15:44:16
That's a good point.

maroule
04-10-2006, 15:54:59
you're so passÚs

his next character IS french (homosexual race car driver, reading Camus and shaving his legs, as seen in Tallageda Nights)

Colon
04-10-2006, 15:55:03
Originally posted by mr_G
jesjesjes

I probably should bring it up in the site-forum but I don't think the administration can handle more than one bright idea a day.

Colon
04-10-2006, 15:55:31
Originally posted by maroule
you're so passÚs

his next character IS french (homosexual race car driver, reading Camus and shaving his legs, as seen in Tallageda Nights)

Homesexual?

fp
04-10-2006, 15:57:42
He only fucks his homies.

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 16:01:47
they call that 'on the down low'

i'm street so i know this stuff

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 16:02:50
Originally posted by maroule
his next character IS french (homosexual race car driver, reading Camus and shaving his legs)

so this one isn't a parody?

maroule
04-10-2006, 16:10:02
Where did I say Borat was not a parody? I even posted a thread before that debate to advertise it.

But we'll see what in it. If the gay Frenchman fucks little boys for breakfast, then yes, I might object, even if it's a 'parody'. Not because it's France, but because it portray gays as pedophile (which is a favorite arguments of some religious fuckers to prevent gay parents from adopting). See, it's just a question of mesure and collateral damage.

King_Ghidra
04-10-2006, 16:22:34
Originally posted by maroule
Where did I say Borat was not a parody? I even posted a thread before that debate to advertise it.

i was just joking

it's ok, not everyone gets these things :cute:

Colon
04-10-2006, 16:49:31
Pediphile?

Spartak
04-10-2006, 17:59:15
The problem here is that you lot don't have enough work to do. This thread would never have happened if you all had a tight deadline to work to.

Oerdin
04-10-2006, 18:04:25
I still think Borat was comedic genius. :lol:

maroule
04-10-2006, 19:25:47
comedic? athritic comedy? comic remedy?

Oerdin
04-10-2006, 19:30:46
http://www.answers.com/topic/comedic

English is a wonderful language. There are very few hard rules and there a literally dozens of different ways to say the same thing.

Of course, pointing out such things to a nonnative English speaker is a bit unfair. Then again if he asks for it, like if he tries to correct someone on an internet forum, then all if fair. :smoke:

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-10-2006, 19:41:56
how twattic

maroule
04-10-2006, 20:16:26
definitly not "comic remedy", rather "pedantic cumface"

Fistandantilus
04-10-2006, 20:36:46
Originally posted by Oerdin

English is a wonderful language. There are very few hard rules and there a literally dozens of different ways to say the same thing.


Isn't that the definition of a shitty language as it leads to various interpretations of the same term?

OTOH mrG is the pioneer of the future language, polishing english to make it perfect, learn from him.

Colon
04-10-2006, 22:23:54
Pedintic?

Scabrous Birdseed
05-10-2006, 07:03:54
It's very easy to adopt an enlightenment/liberal type universalism isn't it? To say that it doesn't matter who uses negative stereotyping, who is the butt of it for what reason it is used. Either protect it all and appeal to free speech, or condemn it all because it stops people from seeing each other correctly. Come across as a humourless drybag or alternatively as a blasÚd cynic. (Hi Ghidra, I'm looking at you.)

I guess you could saunter on to the next level and base your like or dislike of a particular negative-stereotype instance on the intended meaning of the speaker (which would unproblematically separate minstrelsy and Borat) or the way it recieved and whether the "victims" find it offensive or not. But I mean, even that is kinda missing the bigger picture.

Because things in a social context have meaning beyond what "the artist" intends them to mean. Every jibe, every use of words should be related to what they mean in a social setting, to how they relate to different groups and to power, to what they symbolise to people and what it tells us about them. What does "Kazakhstan" represent in Borat? What does Kazakhstan represent in society? Who benefits from the use of Kazakhstan as Borat's home country and who loses out? That's the kind of question you should be asking.

:nervous:

Please tell me that wasn't a deconstructivist argument I just made. :D

King_Ghidra
05-10-2006, 08:19:08
More of a threadkill.

Still, you haven't raised any issues that haven't already been discussed either.

And now i'm a blased cynic? Earlier i was a bigot, a republican, washing my hands of it and failing to live in the real world. What a journey.

Funko
05-10-2006, 08:21:49
You're lucky, I got to be a scarecrow.



er... I mean straw man.

King_Ghidra
05-10-2006, 08:23:19
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

maroule
05-10-2006, 08:25:51
poor cry babies, you've been called names
:cry:

mr_G
05-10-2006, 08:26:38
Originally posted by Oerdin
nonnative English speaker you mean americanos hah

I know
I know

King_Ghidra
05-10-2006, 08:27:28
Did i say i was upset? i should have posted a :lol:

mr_G
05-10-2006, 08:28:26
Originally posted by Fistandantilus
Isn't that the definition of a shitty language as it leads to various interpretations of the same term?

OTOH mrG is the pioneer of the future language, polishing english to make it perfect, learn from him. thank you my friend.

You've got a brilliant eye to recognise my brilliant way of communicating

Colon
05-10-2006, 10:23:50
Comminicating?

maroule
05-10-2006, 11:05:35
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
Did i say i was upset? i should have posted a :lol:

you're just putting a brave face on it
deep down you're crushed

King_Ghidra
05-10-2006, 11:19:51
i'm certainly crushed that we're on the 4th page of this farce

Dyl Ulenspiegel
05-10-2006, 11:24:38
Originally posted by maroule
deep down you're crushed

:brwncard: :brwncard: :brwncard: :brwncard: :brwncard:

maroule
05-10-2006, 11:30:49
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
i'm certainly crushed that we're on the 4th page of this farce

we're the spamfest site, haven't you heard

OldWarrior_42
06-10-2006, 22:41:05
remember that half the US think that all arabs (and all europeans, especially frogs) are rabidly anti-semitic.

You don't give the West or Americans in particular (the average Joe on the street, not our politicians or media members) enough credit for having sense to know how things really are... in the real world.

Matter of fact, that sounds like stereotyping . like Borat did to KZ.

I think I am gonna go start a riot .

OldWarrior_42
06-10-2006, 22:53:37
Oh and I just felt like stirring up some trouble. I've been awol for quite some time and needed to do that.

:-P~~

MOBIUS
06-10-2006, 23:52:54
Originally posted by OldWarrior_42
You don't give the West or Americans in particular (the average Joe on the street, not our politicians or media members) enough credit for having sense to know how things really are... in the real world.

If something like 30%+ still believe Saddam is responsible for 9/11, then I think Maroule is giving them too much credit...;)

Oerdin
07-10-2006, 00:31:38
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
i'm certainly crushed that we're on the 4th page of this farce

Screw you, man. My threads rock!

Colon
07-10-2006, 01:13:23
Anyone who has his settings at below 100 posts a page is a total loser.

OldWarrior_42
08-10-2006, 03:20:03
If something like 30%+ still believe Saddam is responsible for 9/11, then I think Maroule is giving them too much credit...

Is that percentage you staetd from a poll of some sort? (Yes I know... obviously it is) :)

In my opinion, polls aint worth a shit and do not give a true indication of the pulse of ordinary (and might I add... the majority) people. But thats just me.

Like I said... my main point was to be a pain in the ass troublemaker. I'm happy. :)

Oerdin
08-10-2006, 18:06:06
Here is one of the deleted scenes from Borat the Movie.

http://www.filmwad.com/deleted-scenes-from-the-borat-movie-1108-p.html

"I also caught the herpes from my sister."