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paiktis22
14-08-2006, 00:20:34
I am your average person that thinks that everything is here by chance including the existence of satient life. That everything is an ununifrom chaos and humans simply try to create some order out of that unlimiteless chaos. Simple and logical assertion.
I never believed there's a benevolent God above that loves and cares for us and that has a plan or whatever.
It is very hard to believe that because you have no constants. No absolutes. And if everything is by chance and chaotic nothing has meaning. Of course I follow the socratic approach that says that whatever, men must apply to reach the agathon, to excel in personal and communotary level.
Anyway I had a discussion with an old friend recently. He has studied a lot of different topics but recently he enrolled in a class of theology provided by the orthodox church. He's not dogmatic and absolutist. He knows a great deal about psychology too but he got involved in theology as well recently.
Anyway most of what he said I already knew. Namely that one of the best victories for anti-christ is to make you believe there is no embodiment of evil as a separate entity. That there are "evil" actions but there is no evil as a separate entity.
We talked a lot and dwelled deep in contemporate orthodox christian teachings which I always found to be alluring due to their proximity to eastern believes such as buddhism. Apparently our holy fathers maintain that the East got influenced by us and not vice versa. In any case it remains a very alluring approach to life.
The theme goes inevitably back to our ancient thinkers who our religious fathers characherise as "pro-spermatic" (take it easy on the puns). Meaning that they have grasped a glimpse of the Theanthrope (or God-Man=Jesus) before his coming. A glimpse of the Truth. That way there can be reconciliation even between Socrates and Aristotle and Christianity. I've noticed a great deal of corelation between the ancient ideal of the Agathon and the Christian notion of the sanctification of man.
Anyway we were talking in a very non dogmatic way and it really warmed my soul to believe for a second that there is a belevolent God up there who cares. And that there's a purpose and a plan for us.
My friend's pneumatic (sort of spiritual guide) told him that the purpose of why we are on earth is to become "Saints".
I'm far from that so let's keep going.
Another thing he told him and he told me is that there is a perpetual battle between Good and Evil. And that Satan, if we accept the existance of Evil as a separate, autonomous entity, is trying to corrupt your soul. To those who are attracted to material possecions he simply drives them more towards it. To those who are inteligent he inflicts depression and apathy in order to distance them from the wordly. Somehow those words he said sounded very true. I might be working myself up but that made some godamn instant sense.
I'm not saying I've suddendly become a practising christian but the whole notion made perfect sense at the time and for a second there I felt pure balsam covering my aching soul.

Debaser
14-08-2006, 00:50:25
"Another thing he told him and he told me is that there is a perpetual battle between Good and Evil. And that Satan, if we accept the existance of Evil as a separate, autonomous entity, is trying to corrupt your soul. To those who are attracted to material possecions he simply drives them more towards it. To those who are inteligent he inflicts depression and apathy in order to distance them from the wordly. Somehow those words he said sounded very true. I might be working myself up but that made some godamn instant sense."

But that's just a Christian way of saying that ignorance is bliss, and the more you attempt to rationalise and explain everything, the more you come to realise that ulitmately, in the grand grand scheme of things, you are nothing, and your life is meaningless. To not think about it = To not worry about it.

If christian docterine suggested "Just enjoy yourself as best you can, and look after youself and those you love as best you can, and if for you that means just buying loads of stuff then so be it", the world would be a better place.

Like the great prophet Sheryl Crowe once said: If it makes you happy, then it can't be that bad.

paiktis22
14-08-2006, 01:24:47
Sufficienly, said prophet's lyrics don't apply. It doesn't make me happy. Although I'm very familiar with said song and lyrics. :)
What his pneumatic said didn't ring to me like what he said would make your life meaningless. Rather that you have to pick a side and fight. But to be honest that doesn't touch me either. Because, inherintely I know I'm good, even though this can signify the greatest blasphemy, or in ancient terms: the greatest hybris. What pured balsam on my soul is that there is someone up there who cares.... Ok, I can see that whatever he said, the one who cares, can lead you to oblivion. In any case the defining difference to a materialistic existence is not the stakes that are and the perpetual battle but the existence of someone who oversees and cares...
In psychological terms you have to squash your "pride" to overcome your "ego". In theological terms you have to learn "humility". They are the same. I'm sorry if I am not clear and understantable. I'm trying my best in foreign language.

paiktis22
14-08-2006, 01:49:55
What I mean is what happens if everything you've tried has failed to give you inner serenity? Isn't assuring to believe that you have someone up there who cares? To finally believe in something greater than yourself? Even Morrison said it: people can't live with a house and two cars. They need something greater than this.
And if what you hear, supposedly from the realm of the divine, clicks with you... Then what do you do? It is a radical approach to believe there's something greater than you. I admit, some years back I would qualify such thoughts as "weakness". I can't do that anymore. The existance of something greater makes the chaotic puzzle inside of me assume some sort of form. Particularly if what the teachings say makes sense to me. I feel the need to believe in something greater than me.

Beta1
14-08-2006, 08:08:05
Originally posted by paiktis22
Even Morrison said it: people can't live with a house and two cars. They need something greater than this.


As someone with a flat and one car I would like to give a house and two cars a shot.

Gary
14-08-2006, 08:11:12
Hmm ... it may make perfect sense to you: to me it just seems another unlikely possibility. A lot depending on this act of faith that there is an embodiment of evil, which may suit the priests to preach, and allows some interesting attempts at mind manipulation, but that's about it.

Am I the only one to find your posts getting more difficult to read ? No offence maybe it's me just developing an inability to concentrate (sits and waits to be accused of the same thing :)). I think it's the sheer mass of text in a block. Folk like me need small bits of stuff to take in seperately :D

Gary
14-08-2006, 08:13:29
What if beating up pensioners with a large cudgel made you happy ? Does that mean it's not bad ?

Funko
14-08-2006, 08:20:57
That's why God created Grand Theft Auto.

Gary
14-08-2006, 08:21:49
Isn't assuring to believe that you have someone up there who cares?

Probably so, but it sheds no light, one way or the other, on whether it is fact or fiction.

Then what do you do?

Personal choice. Follow your feelings or ignore them.

The existence of something greater makes the chaotic puzzle inside of me assume some sort of form.

It is human nature to believe there is meaning in everything. It may not be so but I also tend to think it is the more likely scenario. But that's just a personal preference. Gotta believe something or else ignore the subject.

MattHiggs
14-08-2006, 08:22:40
..and the lack of spaces between the paragraphs.

Gary
14-08-2006, 08:30:37
Damn I've found the reason wh........ (http://www.herballove.com/library/resource/overmas/lackofconcentration.asp) :confused: Sorry what were we on about ?

Chris
14-08-2006, 13:20:49
Originally posted by Funko
That's why God created Grand Theft Auto. And Satan created GTA Streets of LA

King_Ghidra
14-08-2006, 13:54:07
Originally posted by Debaser


I know you're an adult and you don't live at home any more and stuff, but seriously, if you're up at ten to one at night reading Paiktis posts about religion and responding to them seriously, then you have a problem. Get help, please.

Funko
14-08-2006, 14:04:02
It's worse than that, ten to two!

Gary
14-08-2006, 14:11:44
You have to read the post bearing that in mind :D

Pray for help.

Debaser
14-08-2006, 14:12:20
If I was serious I'd have quoted Alanis Morisette.

Plus I stay up late every sunday night, 'cos I need to try to adjust to working nights for the monday.

Debaser
14-08-2006, 14:13:08
But I still think I'm right!

King_Ghidra
14-08-2006, 14:25:33
:lol:

still i do sympathise with the adaptation thing. I don't know how you do it tbh

Nills Lagerbaak
14-08-2006, 14:29:46
"Like the great prophet Sheryl Crowe once said: If it makes you happy, then it can't be that bad."

I see your sheryl crow and raise you one Skunk Anansie...

"Just becasue it feels gooo-oood, doesn't make it right. Oh no!"

Funko
14-08-2006, 14:38:33
As Bruce Dickenson pointed out, actually "hell, aint a bad place".

Nills Lagerbaak
14-08-2006, 14:50:50
Yes, and that only the good die young!

Gary
14-08-2006, 15:55:16
That's why folk get more cantankerous as they get older. They have to put up with a bigger proportion of the bad guys.

Nills Lagerbaak
14-08-2006, 16:24:45
Damn right, I'd go crazy living in a world of tee-totallers and non-smokers

Funko
14-08-2006, 16:27:52
Who would you get to buy you drinks and give you cigarettes then!

Nills Lagerbaak
15-08-2006, 08:21:39
Exactly! I suppose they could always pass me them up from hell...

Funko
15-08-2006, 08:22:05
pre-lit.

MoSe
16-08-2006, 07:26:57
was that a X-post?
:lol:

as another singer said, whatifGOD-was oneofus
...wait
he IS a CG member!
he must have left forever without notice

paiktis22
22-08-2006, 22:47:23
Sorry about the increasing lack of clarity. The less I write in english the less comprehensible I become :D


Ok some update.
It's not all warm and fuzzy in the core!
Yes because I was an ear witness to the most freakish tale. A tale of a so called "haunting" in the form of payback for past tragressions!
Haunting of dreams by a "demonic" being!
This incident calls for psychoanalysis and definitely should not be seen through the glass of theology. It is dangerous.
And also this perpetual battle between good and evil? It doesn't stop. Apparently there's a very rigid line between the good and tha bad boys. And even if you're a bit miscevous, you're bad.
Generally, it is not all flowers and love but an almost suffocating and rather disconcornant view of the world. So it is ok in the first level. But if you start to dwell deep in it, you freak out.
I think I'll stick with the fuzzy feeling that there might be someone above but leave the technicalities and rules out all together.

Gary
23-08-2006, 08:37:31
Sounds as if the good guys are a bit sparse on the ground then. Doesn't sound promising in the ensuing battle. :)

Provost Harrison
23-08-2006, 08:45:56
paiktis, re-engage the rational part of your brain and question, question, question. This theological stuff may have appealed to some part of you deep down, as it is comforting. But is it correct? Think, is it correct?

MoSe
23-08-2006, 09:18:51
disconcornant has now officially become my favorite english word

Provost Harrison
23-08-2006, 10:54:29
Alas, there is no such word as disconcornant ;)

Gary
23-08-2006, 11:26:53
but we know what was meant ;)