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The Mad Monk
21-04-2002, 14:53:38
Questions, so many questions...

Instead of filling up the Challenge threads with my drivel, I figured it would be better to just post stuff here.

What's the purpose of the virtues in Zangband? How does one manage to 'sin' against Honour in this game? I figured that sinning against Nature is accomplished by toasting all the 'natural' critters that are attacking you. Has anyone managed to not be the polar opposite of Nature in the long term?

In my amberite game, the bandit quest gave me a Holy Avenger broad spear 1d9 {+11, +10} (4). At level 7. Needless to say, this is my favorite piece of equipment. the 100' and 200' quests gave me a Lance of Slay Evil 2d8 {+4,+3}, and a morning star of Extra Attacks 2d6 {don't remember}. I also have the Nilthank dagger.

If you had these weapons, would you pick something other than the Holy Avenger? What does Nilthank do that gives it such an incredibly high selling price, anyway?

I have Cosmo up to level 4, only went to 100' once -- and that by accident.

More later!

MDA
21-04-2002, 18:29:53
The virtue system is currently broken.

That morning star of extra attacks might be worth hanging onto if you enchant it up to +9,+9, depends on how many extra attacks. The holy avenger has some really important basic resists (fearm, see invisible?) and combines (I think) slay evil, slay undead, slay demon (1.5X damage). So against most creatures, you're getting the equivalent of three attacks worth of damage for every two swings. If the extra attacks are +2 or better, you've got a decision to make - keep both and swap, ditch the holy avenger(not likely), or ditch the extra attacks for the cash to buy something cool on the black market, like a ring of slaying or armor of resistance.

the dagger can likely be activated for a ball spell and has an elemental resist, if I'm remembering right, and makes a nifty throwing weapon because it won't disappear. I usually sell them anyhow.

www.zangband.org has a newbie guide and a spoilers page that can answer most questions about the game - there are also text files in the Edit game folder that can explain a lot about artifacts you can find, but that's cheating :)

Sir Penguin
21-04-2002, 19:46:17
If you want to do things the non-cheating way, scrolls of *Identify* will tell you an item's specific properties. 'I' will recall them, and 'x' will get the properties for an item that's for sale in a store.

SP

The Mad Monk
21-04-2002, 23:23:41
Thanks, guys.

What's the favorite combination for folks here? I'm getting attached to this amberite arcane ranger I've got going. She's not bad, once she stopped dying. :)

I decided to stash Narthanc and the lance, and use the HA for my primary weapon with the morning star as back up. I also decided to carry a sling and bullets for when the lice & mice get out of hand.

You know what's nice about having both nature and arcane? You don't have to carry food or fuel, since you have spells for both. The animal taming spell is cool too. Once I cast it on a couple giant lice, then had to leave the room and shut the door because their brethren were breeding too fast. After a short time, I started getting a bunch of 'you feel sad for a moment' messages, but didn't realize what was going on until I checked my pets display -- and saw nearly a dozen lice, in various states of health.

Sir Penguin
22-04-2002, 02:40:37
I like vampire characters, especially in later parts of the game (when you won't have to recall to the surface during the day, unless you fill your inventory with artifacts). I'm also getting quite attached to Ranger characters.

SP

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
22-04-2002, 20:13:10
You and your damned vampires!

Mindcrafters all the way. The ones based on spectres are interesting to play, but then again almost anything based on a spectre is interesting to play.

MDA
22-04-2002, 20:37:28
dwarven or mindflayer mindcrafters are my favorite, but I've had fun lately with a high elf ranger (in addition to the Klackon one)

Cumber
23-04-2002, 03:19:44
Spectre Mindcrafters are just about my favourite character. But I'm currently having fun with a Beastman Mindcrafter, and I quite like both Spectre Warriors and Hobbit Ranger, though I don't think I've actually played any class other than Mindcrafter since I fell in love with precognition. :)

Don't Holy Avenger weapons also give extra attacks? Or is that only sometimes? (I once got a HA axe with +4 attacks from the bandit quest; that was fun).

The Mad Monk
23-04-2002, 05:30:28
Armed with my newfound knowledge of animal taming and explosive breeding, I went into the sewer quest and proceeded to clean house. In a previous start, I had been driven out of the sewers because of infinate numbers of gray rats. This time, I tamed the first two rats I saw (white ones), ordered them to 'keep close', retreated to the stairs and took a nap. By the time I fully recovered my mana, I had nearly thirty of the buggers, and I proceeded to overrun the four gremlins I encountered with my rat hoarde.

The gray rats were next, and they were defeating my hoarde, so I tamed to of them and retreated to take a nap. This time, my white rats were all but wiped out, but there were a good dozen or so gray rats in their place. I led the charge, tamed two giant spiders and killed the rest. That left clear worm masses. This took a while, because the worms seemed to reproduce even quicker than the rats, and were aquatic, but I tamed a few, used detect creature to figure out where the rest were and shot them with arrows -- which magically rolled out of the water and under my feet. :)

The best thing about the pet hoarde was that they took up so much space that the enemy critters could neither reproduce or move. When I left, my hoarde numbered 102, including the two spiders(!!!). Mana drain tops out at 95%, BTW.

Just call me "King Rat".

:D

I put the sling away -- creating your own hoarde is so much more fun.

MDA
23-04-2002, 16:00:22
Heh, I should be ashamed, It NEVER occurred to me to try taming an explosive breeder. Too bad you don't get the experience for what they kill.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
23-04-2002, 16:13:10
Here's the stats for the Holy Avenger.

N:64:(Holy Avenger)
X:24:30
W:0:0:0:20000
C:6:6:4:4
F:WIS |
F:SLAY_EVIL | SLAY_UNDEAD | SLAY_DEMON |
F:SEE_INVIS | BLESSED | RES_FEAR

Translated, this means that you get a (Holy Avenger) weapon, that can get up to (+6, +6) to attack stats, up to [+4] armor bonus, and up to (+4) Wisdom.

It's generally worth about 20000 AU (base price, whatever plusses you get increase the amount, as does the type of weapon), can appear at any time during the game, and: a) increases your wisdom b) has syals for evil, undead and demon (1.5x damage), lets you see invisible and resist fear, and is blessed.

I believe there's also code that randomly gives extra attacks, the number of which is based on the pval (ie. the amount that wisdom is augmented). Later versions have toned down the pval you get because too many people were getting {excellent} +4 attacks HA weapons early on and romping through the game.


Cumber: when are you going to join in the Challenges again?

The Mad Monk
23-04-2002, 22:27:23
Thanks, Qaj! My HA has +4 to defense and +4 wisdom listed, without any mention of special attacks. I am confused about the +6 ceiling for skill and deadliness -- mine has +11 and +10 (may be backwards); is that limit supposed to be absolute, or is it supposed to stack with other mods? I have also noticed that ever since I got the thing, enemies tend to turn and run a lot more often than they used to, more than they do when shot with a bow.

MDA, the no experience for kill is not that much of a problem, since the explosive breeders aren't great fighters to begin with. They are a handy screen to have when you run into monsters that can fight.

All of the rings I have found up until now sell in the 200 AU range; last night I found a Ring of Resist Light and Darkness that would go for about 2000 AU if I sold it. I surmised that it's pretty powerful, probably especially if you play a vampire -- but I don't, so is it that valuable to an amberite ranger?

DaShi
23-04-2002, 23:16:45
It can be valuable against Light and Dark hounds that will constantly blind you otherwise. But they're not very tough anyway, just annoying. A good ring to have when you don't have anything better.

I've never heard of the +6 limit for skill and damage on any weapon. Usually they vary a lot and you can use scrolls to increase those stats, if you have a lot of disposable income.

The Mad Monk
24-04-2002, 05:42:38
Met Robin Hood, compared archery skills.

Wimp.

MDA
24-04-2002, 13:03:02
Its his thieving and um, snare-setting skills that get me angry.

Cumber
24-04-2002, 14:15:49
Qaj: When I find time. I don't seem to be at home all that often these days; my beastman is progressing very slowly.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
25-04-2002, 00:22:19
Cumber: Not being home would explain your decline in posting, unless you've shunned us all here and have taken residence at an new forum.


Everyone: The HA modifiers are stacked on top of the base item. IIRC, the way an item is generated goes something like this:

1> An item is created.

2> A roll is made to determine it's "alignment" (my word for goodness or badness). If good, it becomes {good} and modifiers are added ((+x, +y), or [+x]), if bad, it's {cursed}. Or, it could fail either roll and stay neutral {average}.

3> Another roll is made to escalate the alignment. If {good}, it becomes {excellent}, and a further random decision is made on what type of ego-item it becomes (a subset based on the type of base item, of course). At this stage, a weapon could conceivably become a HA, and thus would gain an extra (+[0-6], +[0-6]), though I'm not sure it starts at 0, could start at 1. The mod to AC and pval are also rolled at this stage.

4> Yet another roll is made to escalate the alignment. With bad items, the path is {average}, {cursed}, {terrible}, {worthless}. Good items are {average}, {good}, {excellent}, {special}. The escalation to special/worthless will remove any special modifiers to the item and completely reroll it as either a randomly selected non-random atrifact, or a completely randomized artifact item, depending on variant/options.

I hope that clears up some confusion :) If not, I have a Ring of Confusion Resistance going cheap.

The Mad Monk
25-04-2002, 05:50:45
No, that makes perfect sense. I finally got around to using *identify* on my HA spear -- no extra attacks, but it does preserve dexterity. Found another HA, a cutlass this time (what is it with me and low damage HAs?). I decided to do without a backup weapon beyond my dwarven shovel (+8), which has other uses, since my longbow still does better damge than anything else, anyway. Found a sling of velocity {+17, +19} -- does this beat a longbow {+3, +3} when you figure in the ranger's bow skills? I'm serious, since sling ammo is so much heavier than arrows.

Are rings of teleportation always cursed? If they are, how does the curse work?

Sir Penguin
25-04-2002, 06:13:21
I don't know about damage of long bows vs. slings of velocity, but remember that you can get 6d5 arrows deeper in the dungeon, and the highest ammo for slings is 4d2.

Rings of teleportation are always cursed. I would assume that the curse means that you can't take it off until you remove the curse, and nothing more.

SP

DaShi
25-04-2002, 13:58:09
I assume that the cursed rings of teleportation work like a cursed trump weapon. You will be randomly teleported every few turns until you uncurse it. Unless you're in a losing battle, then you will never be teleported. :mad:

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
25-04-2002, 23:36:41
Removing the curse on a teleportation ring will let you sell it. To remove the curse, you have to wear it. I don't recall the going price for a RoT, but if you wear two, then read Remove Curse, you'll end up with two, and that might just cover the costs of the Remove Curse scroll :)

Of course, there are easier ways to make money...



Addendum to the HA explanation post: some ego-items contain a spare slot that have a random resist or ability in it. It's not always there, but sometimes, when you *ID* an item, you could find that it has a little something extra, such as sustain dexterity, or resist shards or something.

I think this is determined between 3> and 4>, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
26-04-2002, 00:18:00
Oh, and a RoT will randomly teleport you. If cursed, you have no choice. If uncursed, it will ask you if you want to teleport (y/n). If uncursed and inscribed with a {.}, it'll ignore the teleport completel, just like a trump weapon inscribed with {.} (except the trump weapon can be activated and used even when inscribed). But then it becomes a completely useless ring. Better just to destroy them, really.

Cumber
26-04-2002, 04:29:14
How do {dubious} and {tainted} items fit in with that? (playing ZAngband 2.6.2)

Also, I seem to remember something about lots of mutations being a bad thing somehow, but I can't find anything on it... I decided to play around with my Polymorph mutation for a while, and am now a Klackon with huge biceps, 6 legs, steel skin that's covered in flames, a silly squeeking voice, hypnotic eyes, and a beak, not to mention all the non-visable mutations I have. It could be worse however, I used to have an elephant trunk. :)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
26-04-2002, 15:12:48
{dubious} and {tainted} I know nothing of. I haven't played higher than 2.4.0 seriously (unless you count my 2.4.1 mods :) )

Many mutations has a penalty in 2.4.0 and higher, I believe. The more you have, the lower your spell recharge rate, I think, and may also affect HP recharge, too.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
26-04-2002, 15:15:38
THough, re: dubious and tainted, I heard word once about extending pseudo-ID to non-weapon and -armor items, such as wands, staves, rods, rings, scrolls, potions etc. Pseudo-ID would be split into two, that for weapons/armor, and that for magical items. So mages, who traditionally have very weak pseudo-ID, would get strong magical pseudo-ID and weak weapons/armor pseudo-ID.

The best way to determine what they are is to download the source code and check where it's applied. Or, play the game and report back what items are marked thusly.

Of course all that's complete conjecture on my part, never having played 2.6.2 and repeating posts I read on Usenet about 2 years ago : ) :)

The Mad Monk
27-04-2002, 12:41:18
Anything wrong with resting at the edge of the wilderness for a thousand turns or so, until all your treaure is psuedo-identified?

The Mad Monk
28-04-2002, 11:52:41
Quick question about character dumps...

I've seen people post the character results living and dead, and with and without a log of the last 20 moves or so. How do you dump the character when alive, and with the log?

edit: nevermind, figured it out.

Cumber
28-04-2002, 15:21:13
Qaj: {dubious} items are {good} items that happen to be cursed (positive bonuses, but curesed), and {tainted} items are {excellent} items that happen to be cursed (cursed good ego items, as opposed to {worthless} stuff). They just don't fit in with the way you explained item generation.

Re the mutations a-penalty penalty: I don't seem to have any penalty to my recharge, and I do have 15 mutations so I think it would have come out. Maybe it doesn't apply because I started out as a Beastman... or maybe having regeneration overrides it. Hmm...



Your gaze is hypnotic.
You can teleport at will.
You can polymorph yourself at will.
You can turn ordinary items to gold.
You can hurl objects with great force.
You have a beak (dam. 2d4).
You attract demons.
You are producing magical energy uncontrollably.
You occasionally feel invincible.
Your blood sometimes rushes to your muscles.
Your brain is a living computer (+4 INT/WIS).
Your voice is a silly squeak (-4 CHR).
You have an extra pair of legs (+3 speed).
Your body is enveloped in flames.
Your skin is made of steel (-1 DEX, +25 AC).

I'm not even sure what all of them do. :)

The Mad Monk
29-04-2002, 08:36:24
My cute lil' Amberite Arcane Ranger:
[Zangband 2.4.0 Character Dump]

Name : Dark Jewel Age 97 Str: 17 18/10
Sex : Female Height 82 INT: 18
Race : Amberite Weight 187 WIS: 17
Class : Ranger Social Class 62 DEX: 18
Magic : Nature CON: 18/20
Arcane CHR: 18/97

+ Skill 4 Level 21 Max Hit Points 212
% Deadliness 118 Experience 15169 Cur Hit Points 212
+ To AC 38 Max Exp 15169 Max SP (Mana) 29
Base AC 26 Exp to Adv. 17340 Cur SP (Mana) 0
Gold 14353

(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Good Perception : Excellent Blows/Round : 2
Bows/Throw : Good Searching : Excellent Shots/Round : 2.0
Saving Throw: Superb Disarming : Excellent Avg.Dam./Rnd: 4
Stealth : Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 0'


(Character Background)
You are a rebel child of Caine. You have dark brown eyes,
straight black hair, and an average complexion.




[Miscellaneous information]

Maximize Mode: ON
Preserve Mode: OFF
Autoscum: ALWAYS
Small Levels: ALWAYS
Arena Levels: ENABLED
Hard Quests: OFF
Num. Random Quests: 48
Nightmare Mode: OFF
Recall Depth: Level 9 (450')


abcdefghijkl@
Acid : ....+........
Elec : .............
Fire : ..+..........
Cold : .............
Poison: .............
Fear : .............
Light : ...+.........
Dark : ...+.........
Shard : .............
Blind : .............
Conf : .............
Sound : .............
Nether: .............
Nexus : .............
Chaos : .............
Disnch: .............

abcdefghijkl@
Speed : .............
Reflect : .............
AuraFire: .............
AuraElec: .............
NoTelprt: .............
No Magic: .............
Wraithfm: .............
DrainExp: .............
Teleport: .............

abcdefghijkl@
Free Actn: ...........+.
SeeInvis.: .............
Hold Life: .............
Telepathy: .............
SlwDigstn: .............
Regen. : ............+
Levitate : .............
PermLite : .............
Aggravate: .............
EvilCurse: .............

You have defeated 3465 enemies.


[Virtues]

You are the polar opposite of Nature.
You are the living embodiment of Temperance.
You are the polar opposite of Honour.
You are somewhat virtuous in Harmony.
You are a bitter enemy of Justice.
You are somewhat virtuous in Valour.
You are very virtuous in Patience.
You are the polar opposite of Compassion.


[Character Equipment]

a) a Dwarven Shovel of Digging (1d3) (+1,+2) (+8)
b) a Long Bow (x3) (+3,+3) {uncursed}
c) an Engagement Ring of Flames [+10]
d) a Shining Ring of Light and Darkness Resistance
e) an Amulet of Resist Acid
f) a Brass Lantern (with 13472 turns of light)
g) a Robe [2,+5]
h) an Elven Cloak [4,+6] (+4 to stealth)
i) a Large Metal Shield [8,+4] {uncursed}
j) a Steel Helm of Beauty [6,+3] (+2)
k) (nothing)
l) a Pair of Metal Shod Boots of Free Action [6,+8]


[Character Inventory]

a) 2 Nature Spellbooks [Call of the Wild]
b) a Nature Spellbook [Nature Mastery] {25% off}
c) a Black Spotted Mushroom of Paranoia
d) 2 Red Mushrooms of Confusion
e) 2 Dark Red Mushrooms of Hallucination
f) a Tangerine Potion of Cure Serious Wounds
g) a Grey Potion of Cure Critical Wounds
h) 3 Scrolls of Teleportation
i) a Scroll of Word of Recall
j) a Silver Rod of Light
k) a Silver Wand of Stinking Cloud
l) an Iron Wand of Magic Missile
m) 2 Tiger Eye Rings of Teleportation {cursed}
n) Leather Scale Mail [11] {good}
o) a Cloak [1] {good}
p) a Cutlass (1d7)
q) a Katana of Slay Giant (3d4) (+3,+11)
r) a Trident (1d8) {good}
s) a Broad Spear (Holy Avenger) (1d9) (+11,+10) [+3] (+4)
t) a Broad Spear (1d9) {good}
u) 78 Flight Arrows (2d4) (+0,+0) (18/36)
v) 5 Sheaf Arrows (5d4) (+5,+4) (51/102)


[Home Inventory - ]

a) an Arcane Spellbook [Cantrips for Beginners]
b) an Arcane Spellbook [Minor Arcana] {50% off}
c) an Arcane Spellbook [Major Arcana] {50% off}
d) a Black Spotted Mushroom of Paranoia
e) a Grey Mushroom of Naivety
f) a Black Mushroom of Cure Confusion
g) a Shimmering Potion of Blindness
h) 3 Scrolls titled "danturs temsno" of Summon Monster
i) a Scroll of Word of Recall
j) 5 Scrolls of Identify
k) 9 Scrolls of Identify {25% off}
l) an Opal Ring of Searching (+1)
m) an Amulet of Charisma (+4)
n) an Iron Helm [5,-1]
o) The Dagger 'Nimthanc' (1d4) (+4,+6)
p) a Long Sword (2d5) (+2,+2)
q) 20 Arrows (3d4) (+5,+6) (31/63)
r) 18 Arrows (3d4) (+4,+3) (29/59)
s) 10 Arrows (3d4) (+0,+0) (27/54)


[Home Inventory - ]

a) a Purple Potion of Weakness
b) a Wooden Torch (with 1026 turns of light)
c) a Sling of Velocity (x2) (+17,+19)
d) a Short Bow (x2) (+1,+1)
e) 26 Bolts (2d5) (+4,+4)


[Home Inventory - ]

a) a Yellow Potion of Sleep
b) a Light Blue Potion of Resist Cold
c) 3 Metallic Blue Potions of Cure Light Wounds
d) a Tangerine Potion of Cure Serious Wounds
e) a Potion of Restore Intelligence {25% off}
f) a Dark Green Potion of Infra-vision
g) a Scroll titled "wah fidturs" of Teleportation
h) a Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+1) {75% off}


[Home Inventory - ]

a) an Arcane Spellbook [Cantrips for Beginners]
b) an Arcane Spellbook [Manual of Mastery] {25% off}
c) a Potion of Restore Wisdom {25% off}
d) a Potion of Restore Charisma {25% off}
e) an Aluminum-Plated Wand of Clone Monster (9 charges)
f) 3 Crystal Amulets of Teleportation {cursed}
g) 37 Bolts (2d5) (+0,+0)


[Message Log (last 80 messages)]

You are covered in acid!
The Gelatinous cube misses you. <8x>
You have 4 Sheaf Arrows (5d4) (+5,+4) (51/102).
The Sheaf Arrow (5d4) (+5,+4) (51/102) strikes the Gelatinous cube.
The Gelatinous cube dies.
You feel something roll beneath your feet. <2x>
You have found 50 gold pieces worth of silver.
You have found 43 gold pieces worth of garnets.
You have no room for any of the objects on the floor.
You have 5 Sheaf Arrows (5d4) (+5,+4) (51/102) (w).
You hear noise.
You have no room for a Scroll titled "yergite ionjo".
You have no room for any of the objects on the floor.
You hear noise.
You have no room for any of the objects on the floor.
You hear noise.
The Green icky thing misses you.
You have no room for any of the objects on the floor.
The Green icky thing misses you.
You miss the Green icky thing. <2x>
The Green icky thing misses you. <3x>
You hit the Green icky thing. <2x>
You bash the Green icky thing. <2x>
You have slain the Green icky thing.
You sense the presence of doors!
You sense the presence of stairs!
You sense the presence of monsters!
The Quiver slot fires an arrow at your Red worm mass.
The Brown mold squelches.

***

The Disenchanter mold draws psychic energy from your Red worm mass.
The Grape jelly touches your Red worm mass.
Your Red worm mass is unharmed.
The Brown mold hits your Red worm mass.
Your Red worm mass looks confused.
The Brown mold hits your Red worm mass.
Your Red worm mass looks more confused.
The Yellow jelly draws psychic energy from your Red worm mass.
The Grape jelly draws psychic energy from your Red worm mass.
The Quiver slot fires an arrow at your Red worm mass.
The Green mold barely notices.

***

You can learn 4 more spells.
You have no room for any of the objects on the floor.
You hear noise.
You have no room for any of the objects on the floor.
You hear noise.
You drop 3 Crimson Potions of Neutralize Poison (f).
You have no more Crimson Potions of Neutralize Poison.
You hear noise.
You miss the Red worm mass.
You strike the Red worm mass.
You hear noise.
You hit the Red worm mass. <2x>
You have slain the Red worm mass.
You hear noise.
You feel sad for a moment.
It fires an arrow at your Red worm mass.
You hear noise.
It fires an arrow at your Red worm mass.
You push past your Red worm mass.
It fires an arrow at your Red worm mass.
It fires an arrow.
You hear noise.
It touches your Red worm mass.
It makes a high pitched shriek.
You feel a sudden stirring nearby!
It fires an arrow at your Red worm mass.
You push past your Red worm mass.
It fires an arrow.
You miss the Green icky thing.
You strike the Green icky thing.
The Green icky thing misses you.
Your Red worm mass crawls on your Red worm mass.
Your Red worm mass resists a lot.
It makes a high pitched shriek.
The Green icky thing misses you.
It fires an arrow.
It fires an arrow at your Red worm mass.
The Green icky thing misses you.

The messages I bracketed with '***' had me in hysterics for a good couple minutes.

:)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
29-04-2002, 18:02:11
Cumber: Beastmen (and maybe Chaos Warriors) are immune from the "too many mutations" penalty, since that's the whole point of the character. It was introduced so that people wouldn't go scumming for chaos-breathers to twist them into superhuman characters with telepathy and computers for brains etc. etc. It is possible to get scores of mutations, but if that effectively stops you regenerating, you're more likely to settle for 3 or 4 good ones.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
29-04-2002, 20:26:46
You need to play with preserve mode on, or you'll miss all those lovely artifacts, like it seems you already have done (I'm thinking by CLevel 21 you should have received the Phial by now, though it's not unheard of that you haven't). Either that or sart paying more attention to the level feelings.

The Mad Monk
30-04-2002, 05:40:44
Yep -- lost the phial before I understood what was going on . :(

Now I pay damn close attention to level feelings. Speaking of which -- how normal is it to get three unique opponents on a single level? My last time out I got Hobbes the Tiger, the Easterling and that funny dancing yeek fellow.

'Special Feeling', indeed.

I have decided I hate giant slugs. They're not even worth taming, cause one way or the other, you're going to end up drenched in slug vomit. Their habit of snaking on other party members isn't particularly endearing, either.

Cumber
30-04-2002, 07:45:42
Qaj: I knew that, but I am also no longer a Beastman - I am now a Klackon.

[edit: nevermind]

What the hell, this is how I'm going.

[ZAngband 2.6.2 Character Dump]

Name : Cumber Age 18 STR: 18/138
Sex : Male Height 60 INT: 18/97
Race : Klackon Weight 83 WIS: 18/208
Class : Mindcrafter Social Class 2 DEX: 18/72
CON: 18/10
CHR: 18/66

+ Skill 17 Level 31 Max Hit Points 242
% Deadliness 207 Experience 200693 Cur Hit Points 187
+ To AC 122 Max Exp 200693 Max SP (Mana) 231
Base AC 48 Exp to Adv. 240000 Cur SP (Mana) 161
Gold 622310

(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Fair Perception : Very Good Blows/Round : 2+1
Bows/Throw : Good Searching : Good Shots/Round : 2.0
Saving Throw: Superb Disarming : Superb Avg.Dam./Rnd: 53
Stealth : Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 20'


(Character Background)
In your childhood, you were stupid enough to stick your
head in raw Logrus. You have green reptilian eyes, mangy
brown fur, and the hooves of a goat.



[Miscellaneous information]

Maximize Mode: ON
Preserve Mode: ON
Autoscum: ALWAYS
Small Levels: ALWAYS
Arena Levels: ENABLED
Hard Quests: OFF
Num. Random Quests: 19
Nightmare Mode: OFF
Recall Depth: Level 50 (2500')


abcdefghijkl@
Acid : ............+
Elec : ..........+..
Fire : ..........+..
Cold : ..........+..
Poison: .............
Fear : ............+
Light : ......+......
Dark : ......+......
Shard : ...+.........
Blind : .........+...
Conf : ............+
Sound : .............
Nether: +............
Nexus : +............
Chaos : .............
Disnch: .+.......+...

abcdefghijkl@
Speed : .+.........++
Reflect : ........+....
AuraFire: ............+
AuraElec: .............
NoTelprt: .............
No Magic: .............
Cursed : .............
DrainExp: .............
Teleport: +............

abcdefghijkl@
Free Actn: ++...........
SeeInvis.: ..+..........
Hold Life: .............
Telepathy: .+.......+...
SlwDigstn: +............
Regen. : +.........+..
Levitate : .............
PermLite : .....+....+.+
Aggravate: .............
EvilCurse: .............

You have defeated 5905 enemies.


[Mutations]

Your gaze is hypnotic.
You can teleport at will.
You can polymorph yourself at will.
You can turn ordinary items to gold.
You can hurl objects with great force.
You have a beak (dam. 2d4).
You attract demons.
You are producing magical energy uncontrollably.
You occasionally feel invincible.
Your blood sometimes rushes to your muscles.
Your brain is a living computer (+4 INT/WIS).
Your voice is a silly squeak (-4 CHR).
You have an extra pair of legs (+3 speed).
Your body is enveloped in flames.
Your skin is made of steel (-1 DEX, +25 AC).


[Character Equipment]

a) a Fauchard (Trump Weapon) (1d25) (+13,+18) (+1 to searching) {.@A9!k}
b) The Sling 'Mothbrag' (x3) (+15,+17) (+4 to speed)
c) a Dilithium Ring of See Invisible
d) a Lapis Lazuli Ring of Shard Resistance
e) an Amulet of Brilliance (+3)
f) The Phial of Galadriel (+1 to searching) {@A0}
g) Pseudo Dragon Scale Mail (-2) [30,+24] {@A1}
h) a Fur Cloak of Stealth [3,+11] (+1 to stealth)
i) a Small Metal Shield of Reflection [5,+18] {uncursed}
j) The Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil [2,+10] (+2)
k) The Set of Cesti 'Wunbjorsno' [5,+19] (+4 to stealth)
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Speed [3,+12] (+5)


[Character Inventory]

a) 8 Pieces of Elvish Waybread {@E0}
b) 20 Bubbling Potions of Cure Critical Wounds {@q0}
c) 6 Blue Speckled Potions of Healing
d) a Metallic Green Potion of *Healing* {!*}
e) 3 Ichor Potions of Restore Mana
f) 3 Hazy Potions of Restore Life Levels
g) 9 Scrolls titled "con pluorn" of Phase Door {@r1}
h) 14 Scrolls titled "alaeng ing" of Word of Recall {@r9!r}
i) 3 Scrolls titled "er evs odtox" of *Identify*
j) 10 Scrolls titled "nepre ti" of Satisfy Hunger {@r0}
k) 5 Uridium Rods of Probing (1 charging) {@z0}
l) a Tin-Plated Rod of Acid Balls {@z1}
m) 5 Lead Wands of Stone to Mud (44 charges) {@a0}
n) a Long Wand of Dragon's Frost (5 charges)
o) a Quartz Ring of Sound Resistance {uncursed}
p) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim' [1,+10]
q) a Scimitar (Holy Avenger) (2d5) (+11,+8) [+1] (+2)
r) a Broad Axe (Chaotic) (2d6) (+4,+4)
s) a Halberd (Trump Weapon) (3d5) (+4,+8) (+1 to searching)
t) a Guisarme (Holy Avenger) (2d5) (+7,+16) [+1] (+1 attack)
u) 53 Mithril Shots (6d2) (+3,+2) (56/112) {@f0}


[Home Inventory - Laddor]

a) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg' (+8,+8) [1,+15] (+2)
b) a Set of Gauntlets of Power (+4,+2) [2,+13] (+4) {uncursed}



Be warned, this level is guarded by 18 Ancient red dragons!

And it's an arena level, so the dragons have plenty of room to attack me in. And there appears to be a vault as well (or do vaults always have permanent walls?).

I'm in trouble.

MDA
30-04-2002, 13:45:54
In your childhood, you were stupid enough to stick your
head in raw Logrus. You have green reptilian eyes, mangy
brown fur, and the hooves of a goat.

You're an odd-looking Klackon, to be sure!:)

Not sure I'd bother with a vault in an arena level. There's nowhere to run and heal!

I had an interesting experience with a Magical Figure of an Abyss Worm Mass recently. It breeds explosively *and* eats through walls. They saved me long enough to get away from the Ultimate Dungeon Cleaner that didn't belong at my depth, but opened up walls to lots of other fun beasts. I didn't stick around.

Cumber
30-04-2002, 14:55:03
I stuck my head in raw Logrus, what do you expect? :) I used to have an elephant's trunk too! That is the funniest extra attack I've ever seen.

Done the vault actually. There was a Cherub, which summoned an Angel. Sitting next to a mature green dragon and a law drake. The ultimate battle between good and evil ensued, and me having telepathy I had to read every single attack message... I just got sick of it so I cracked the vault open and killed the Cherub. Then half the other stuff ran out as well. Wasn't too nasty really.

Only 10 Ancient red dragons to go. I never thought I'd ever hear myself say that.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
30-04-2002, 18:19:04
Good luck! And remember, at least they aren't Ancient Gold Dragons. Pulverise probably wouldn't be able to stun them.

MDA
01-05-2002, 13:29:04
Ran into a pit full of Raal's Tomes, Hell Blades, and creeping gold and mithril coins with my Amberite Priest. I lured a few hellblades and coins out then exited the level. Stupid Raal's Tomes! I couldn't get anywhere near the doorway without ending up stunned and confused, if it weren't for the 13 potions of healing I carried, I'd have been toasted. So remember, when playing a priest Detect Evil, Detect Evil, Detect Evil. Almost as useful as detect traps.

Holy Orb has to be one of the most powerful spells in the game. Some have called it overpowered, or just accessible at too low a level. I love this spell for clearing rooms full of orcs/trolls, especially when there's a crowd of sappers scattered through to set off a chain reaction :)

Priests are probably the first class I'd recommend after a new player gets a grip on a simple warrior. Very sturdy.


Currently playing a lv33 Amberite Priest (life, chaos) at 1450'.
I found Soulblade, one of the handiest weapons I've ever come across in terms of high resists (five of them, including disenchantment, I think), its also extra deadly against about everything ------ and Boots of Speed (+9)!

Cumber
01-05-2002, 13:58:12
MDA: doors are for sissies. :) Seriously though, wands of stone to mud are your friend. If you stand 6 squares back and bust the pit open, only 7 or so nasties get a free shot at you, as opposed to 30 when you open the door. Deal with them, then use ball spells to kill the really nasty things around the corner, or widen the opening gradually, etc. StM wands are also handy for when you spot some horrible thing lurking behind a door, just waiting for you to open it so it can maul you in HTH combat. And useful again for navigating those levels that are filled with rubble. And just for taking short cuts. I currently have 72 charges worth, and I usually have to recharge every time I go back to the surface. They are my most useful 'utility' item, second only to WoR scrolls.

And Detect Evil? Why not detect monsters/invisible/traps/items/magic map/gain ESP, all at once, for 1 mana? :cool:

Qaj: I killed the dragons. Love my dragon scale mail activate. I am now greatly thankful for all the high level spell books I kept getting as quest rewards.

MDA
01-05-2002, 16:03:29
One Raal's Tome getting a free shot is often enough. Three is generally suicide. :) If I could have I would have bounced holy orbs off the sidewalls of the pit, but I don't purposely carry StM wands. Will the Chaos spell Fist of Force break walls?

I love precognition, too. I started a priest just to see how great holy orb was. Very, very good, but I still like the mindcrafter area spells best. Especially pulverize(for stuns) and the one that blinks the bad guys all over the place while whipping them into paste (telekinetic wave?).

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
01-05-2002, 18:30:50
Who knows what they're called? ma, mf, mi, ml :)

The Raal's Pits aren't usually worth it. Can't remember what kind of xp they give, but if luring coins is your game, Cumber's Stone to Mud trick fired just off-center to the approach corridor, then a few steps back usually lets out all the less nasty, high treasure creatures (creeping mithril coins and the like) as well as a few less harmless hell blades, while keeping the Tomes out of LoS.

It's a pity there's no Mud to Stone spell to fix the hole back up once you're done :)

MDA
01-05-2002, 19:11:52
Well, there's word of destruction :)

The Mad Monk
01-05-2002, 20:57:22
Oh yeah, that's right, just put the dungeon in a blender, why dontcha?

:)

Cumber
02-05-2002, 04:23:12
The Monastic lich looks deep into your eyes.
Your mind is blasted by psionic energy.
You feel yourself moving slower!
Oh, wow! Everything looks so cosmic now!
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
The Anti-Christ gasps.
The Who flees in terror!
The Trapper flinches.
The Chest mimic flinches.
The Cherub flinches.
It jerks in agony.
It collapses, a mindless husk.
The Whippoorwill collapses, a mindless husk.
It collapses, a mindless husk. <3x>
The Mancubus collapses, a mindless husk.
It collapses, a mindless husk. <5x>
The Wookie blinks away.
Character dump successful.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
The Space Invader collapses, a mindless husk.
The Lizardman falls asleep!
The Puppet master flinches.
The Ultra-elite paladin is dazed.
It collapses, a mindless husk.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
The Stupendous Man hisses in pain.
The Nightgaunt hisses in pain.
The Queen Kong hisses in pain.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
The Bogeyman hisses in pain.
The Hound of the Baskervilles resists.
The Apocalyptic Beast hisses in pain.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
The Jugulator snarls with pain.
The Space ship hisses in pain.
The Bloodletter of Khorne snarls with pain.
The Mad butcher flees in terror!
The Wizball wakes up.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
The Saucerman snarls feebly.
The Sphinx flees in terror!
The Small kobold falls asleep!
The Small kobold flees in terror!
The Door mimic snarls feebly.
The Hand druj blinks away.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
The Hru collapses, a mindless husk.
The Black wraith collapses, a mindless husk.
The Other collapses, a mindless husk.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain! <2x>
You feel yourself speed up.
Your skin returns to normal.
You feel less resistant to acid.
You feel less resistant to electricity.
You feel less resistant to fire.
You feel less resistant to cold.
You feel less resistant to poison.
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
You feel yourself slow down.
You feel less Berserk.
The Catoblepas wakes up.
Your consciousness contracts again.
The Terror from the year 5000 wakes up.
You have a bad feeling...

LOL!

The Mad Monk
02-05-2002, 06:38:42
Cool. :)

MDA
02-05-2002, 14:11:23
You must be WAY deeper than I have ever been! (never having reached 2000', that's not much, I guess)

I remember Wizball!!

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
03-05-2002, 19:49:14
Wizball on the C64 was cool. Then they tried doing a remake for the Amiga, and maybe even the PC. That was the saddest thing ever.

Why do I sound like ajli?

I;ve gotten down to 2000' before a few times. I don't last long :)

Though there was that one time I took some REAL chances and WoR shopped down to DLevel 127 in order to read a scroll of *Aquisition* I'd managed to find. For a CLevel 30 character with crap equipment, that'll teach you the REAL meaning of fear.

Sir Penguin
04-05-2002, 03:05:00
I've been down to 3000-something feet before. Then I got bored, because I could beat everything, I'd beaten all the set quests, and I hadn't picked enough random quests. I kept on recalling down to 100' to see if I could beat the serpent yet, but the best I could do was get him down to half HP. I think I was an Amberite warrior or something like that.

SP

The Mad Monk
04-05-2002, 17:03:01
Is there a way to take pets with you between levels, or do you have to assemble a new team each and every time?

MDA
04-05-2002, 17:52:52
I don't think they'll follow you down stairs. Fortunately, neither will that ancient multihued dragon that had you down to 4 hit points.

The Mad Monk
05-05-2002, 07:16:19
Here's an interesting one: my Amberite has naturally sustained constitution -- a little 's' in the appropriate column and everything. Ater a particularly bad session that culminated with a Word of Recall activating just before a headless ghost took me down, I noticed my constitution was down a point (my wisdom was down three points, my intelligence was down six and I had lost two levels, but none of those had protections). My question is, was this a glitch/bug, or are there things out there that can overide sustains? If such is the case, is a headless ghost one of those things? This was going against a (formerly) 22nd level ranger at 500', and I wasn't able to do any damage to it at all, with HA spear, longbow, or several spells! Was this thing horrifically out of depth, or was I just unlucky / ill prepared?

Cumber
05-05-2002, 13:47:35
The Headless ghost ('G')/('G'):
You have killed at least 4 of these creatures. A phantasmal apparition with no head. It is normally found at depths of 2650 feet, and moves a bit erratically and quickly. A kill of this evil undead creature is worth 748.07 points for a 39th level character. It is magical, casting spells which drain mana or produce frost bolts; about 1 time in 10. It can pass through walls and pick up objects. It is cold blooded. It resists cold and poison. It cannot be confused or slept. It may carry up to 3 objects. It can touch to terrify, claw to reduce intelligence, and claw to reduce wisdom.

Firstly, yes it was horrifically out of depth! :eeek: It does reduce intelligence and wisdom, and I don't know about strength (they've never tried that on me). As far as I know it wouldn't be able to override sustains, even if it could drain strength. Do Amberites start with sustained constitution, or gain it at a certain level? You might just have had it dropped before you got the sustain... or while you'd lost a level from draining or something.

Lady_of_Chicken
05-05-2002, 20:57:30
Qaj says: To answer Mad Monk's question, yes there are things that can override sustains under certain conditions, just like there are certain things that can override paralysis resistance (most notably, the Foul evil curse comes to mind).

The Mad Monk
05-05-2002, 23:07:46
Thanks guys! The only reason I survived long enough to recall out of there was my software bug screen -- it was taking them down fast, but it still had to pause whenever it hit one instead of going at me. Ah, well...:)

The Game Taketh, The Game Giveth Away Dept:

On the very next dive, I entered what I suppose was an arena level -- except that most of it was covered in debris. This allowed great crowd control, and I was able to take out two uniques (The yeek surrounded by master yeeks, and the snarga guy). Anywho, I started to removed all the debris I dared (and with grey rats and fruit flys swarming, I didn't dare a lot), and lo and behold -- The Trumps of Doom spellbook!

Too bad she isn't a trump ranger...:)

That, along with some high powered arms and ammo, led to the most profitable day this character's had yet.

:)

Cumber
07-05-2002, 11:31:40
If you're wielding something that drains experience, does Hold Life help?

Cumber
07-05-2002, 11:46:24
Never mind... I just found out what "drains experience" means... but I could maybe even put up with that if it didn't have anti-teleportation. :(

Cumber
07-05-2002, 14:28:23
Mind-warping forces emanate from your brain!
Julian, Master of Arden Forest says: 'Everyone dances with the Grim Reaper.'
Julian, Master of Arden Forest collapses, a mindless husk.
You just completed your quest!
A magical staircase appears...
You feel something roll beneath your feet.
Julian, Master of Arden Forest puts a terrible blood curse on you!
The Cyberdemon hits you.
The Cyberdemon misses you.
The Cyberdemon hits you.
The Cyberdemon misses you.
The Nycadaemon misses you. <2x>
The Nycadaemon claws you. <2x>
You open a dimensional gate. Choose a destination.
Select a point and press space.
The Cyberdemon suddenly seems friendly!

*laughs* So much for Julian's terrible blood curse. :) I'm really getting to like Domination now.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
08-05-2002, 00:33:34
So the ancient foul curse merely summoned a Cyberdemon? Man, you got off light!

Cumber
08-05-2002, 04:31:46
I believe it summoned a Nycademon and a ghoul as well. Me and my Cyberdemon buddy made short work of them, then I turned on my Cyberdemon buddy to see how much experience he was worth. Used half my Healing potions, but got 50,000 experience. But with how easy it is to charm Cyberdemons, I'm a lot less afraid of the Ancient and Foul Curse now (not to mention the monsters that can summon Cyberdemons). That was how I killed Julian too... he summon hydras, he suddenly surrounded by giant mythical reptiles out for his blood, which did sod all to Julian but stopped him attacking me. And mana recharge didn't really matter when the only spell I could cast to avoid pissing the hydras off was Psychic Drain. I love being a mindcrafter. :)

The Mad Monk
08-05-2002, 05:15:12
What level is this happening at, Cumber?

The Mad Monk
08-05-2002, 15:40:26
Found a Mace of Earthquakes, with +3 attacks. I thought it become my favorite weapon, but, as it turns out, I don't like the way it rearranges the furniture. It is now a strictly secondary weapon (and digging device), for use in emergencies.

Also found (and now wear) the Soft Studded Leather 'Metalicus'; it does not show up in my "Known Artifacts' list. Should I be worried?

MDA
08-05-2002, 18:17:36
Its a randomly generated artifact, not in the list of set artifacts. they can often be much better than most of the set ones.

Cumber
09-05-2002, 08:27:19
I'm currently at 3700' (level 74 I think)... Julian was a few levels ago.

And now I can see Dworkin on this level... having read the Amber books, wasn't the universe supposed to end if he died? This should be interesting. Another blood curse at the best, anyway. Damn Amberites with their curse-someone--as-they-die-and-it-comes-true trick.

And they forced me to kill Glaurung. *sniffs* Poor widdle dragon. I didn't want to do it!

Cumber
09-05-2002, 08:46:48
I take it all back. The universe does not end if Dworkin dies, nor does he put a blood curse on you. In fact, he drops the Jewel of Judgement (not sure if that's a set drop or not, but it would make sense).

Hey Qaj, I remember there being a bad thing about using the Jewel, but I can't see anything about it after *ID*ing it (part from the draining when you activate it). And in the books it was supposed to kill you if you wore it for too long. Is it just the activate thing?

The Mad Monk
10-05-2002, 08:40:54
I think you all should know that this game has put a serious dent in my plans to have a 90+ level character of every class in D2LOD before the 1.1 patch clamps a lid on things.

:)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
10-05-2002, 18:42:42
I do believe that it's just the activation. Many people use the Jewel when they find it, so it can't be tht bad (not like, say, Chainsword or Terror Mask).

The Mad Monk
11-05-2002, 07:43:45
Fun day in Zangville:

Imagine a level 24 ranger, at 650', in a 'special' level literally filled with confusion gas traps, a smattering of umber hulks, multihued dragons, and abyss worms. And a jelly vault (pit?). Oh yeah, the Son of Hagen (with the spear) was there, too.

Did I mention the ranger is blindly swinging a mace of earthquakes (+3 attacks)?

:lol:

Cumber
11-05-2002, 14:55:30
Damn, I've discovered that the Jewel does have another downside... it occaisionally drains your HP a bit... no idea if it's a percentage thing or a fixed thing (i.e. if it can kill you), but I almost never let myself get to less than 3 or 4 hundred HP these days, and the most I've seen it suck is around 200. I can live with it.

In recent news, I found a unique ancient dragon, who summoned just about every other unique ancient dragon (including that poncy bastard Smaug), but eventually killed them all, and found a Ring of Speed (+12) for sale in a Jewlers in the second town circuit I found on the surface (I *knew* there was a point to exploring the wilderness :coolgrin: ). +30 speed (+40 with Adreneline Channeling) is good right?

The Mad Monk
11-05-2002, 15:31:41
:eek:Sounds like.:eek:

Reminds me -- does "speed" just affect movement, or does it increase your attack speed as well?

Cumber
11-05-2002, 18:05:15
As far as I'm aware, speed simply gives you more turns compared to the monsters (e.g. +10 speed gives you two turns for every one turn a normal speed monster would get), so it affects *everything*. If you get 3 attacks per round, and then you double your speed, you should be getting the equivalent of 6 attacks per round if you'd left your speed alone. Or so I believe, anyway... Qaj?

I think my speed bonus makes me around 4x normal speed (a bit more with Adreneline Channeling, but after 28ish speed bonus gives diminishing returns). Trouble is, so's everything else at the levels I'm up to.

The Mad Monk
13-05-2002, 19:54:10
Had some fun today with the Vapor Quest. Ever draw out a battle with a chaos breather just to get a mutation or two?

My ranger is now Very Resilient -- ok, pretty boring as far as mutations go, but I'm happy with it.

:)

Also had an idea for building a 'gatling rod' -- stockpile rods of the desired (identical) type until you have four or more, then take 'em all with you and open up! I now have a nine barrel gatling rod of light -- orcs are fun now...:)

Now, to get enough cold ball rods...:)

DaShi
13-05-2002, 23:21:41
Yeah, I used to do that with trap and doors wands. One of my character had about 3-5 fireball wands. Just have to becareful where you point those things. I found a wand of Restoration once, but it took forever to recharge. Apparently, items don't recharge while in your home.

Does using acid balls on enemies damage any items that they may be carrying? Or are the items spawned after they die?

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
13-05-2002, 23:46:22
Speed is a tricky subject. For the longest time, extremely high speed ratings really screwed up who moved during what round.

Now, that said. The traditional speed rating (ie. that which was derived from Angband) is directly related to energy. Each round, a character has 100 "energy points" to spend. A step in any given direction uses up, *gasp* 100 energy points, so one step at default speed takes one round.

Now, when you get Slow (-n) modifiers, what happens is for each n, your energy expenditure goes up 10 energy points. So, every 10 moves, your enemies gain an extra round. Similarly with fighting, spellcasting etc. If you're unlucky enough to be at (-10), your energy costs shoot up to 200 per round, thereby doubling the speed of your enemies.

Now, getting extra speed is different. Instead of (+10) making you expend 0 energy points, effectively stopping time like that Twilight Zone episode, +10 makes you twice as fast as standard speed creatures, ie. it changes energy expenditure to 50 per round.

So a monster with +0 vs. a player with +10:

Monster moves left 1 space, uses 100 energy, has none left.
Player moves right 1 space, uses 50 energy, has 50 left.
Player moves right 1 space, uses 50 energy, has 0 left.

Monster left, player right, player right. ad infinitum.


Moving up to +20, the player now only has to expend around 33 energy points per round, making him three times as fast as a regular speed 0 monster.

So we see that increasing speed is kind of, what, hyperbolic? Exponential? I never was clear on the precise terminology. Let's just say more speed gives diminishing energy return.

NOTE: the bug that used to exist, and may still exist in 2.4.0, is that when speed starts to get up to +40, you start getting rounding errors, because I think the energy system is/was INTEGER based, and you'd lose fractions of turns. Plus, when one of a creature/player is +39, the other +41, that rounding error difference is magnified. This led to times where a monster would get two attacks in a row, often instakilling a character (ie. if you're battling the Serpent/Morgoth, and it gets two spectacularly good hits in a row in, and you die, you'll curse that bug, especially if said monster only has one star left and you'd've kill it the next blow).

The Mad Monk
14-05-2002, 01:50:12
From what I've seen, it goes in this order:
1) Spell goes off
2) Monsters and pre-existing items take damage / are destroyed, starting from the point of impact and working outward
3) Monster drops are placed, though I'm a bit foggy on if it happens as soon as the critter is removed or after total spell effects are done; either way, its best to think of the ball as an expanding shell, where drops are placed after the shell has already past.

At least, it goes that way with fire balls, cold balls and light beams.

:)

Cumber
14-05-2002, 15:16:10
Speaking of speed, the RNG was in a really weird mood earlier today... I found a pit of multi-hued dragons, and in the many (many many MANY) drops from that, there was about six rings of speed. 3 of them were even positive (+12, +12, and +11). This is just after I buy a +12 ring of speed for about half a million gold. Ah well.

I'm still holding out for one of the Three rings though.

The Mad Monk
17-05-2002, 04:52:28
Had an interesting day...:)

Did you know that the animal taming spell affects all 'natural' creatures, and that yeeks are considered 'natural'? Yes, even master yeeks. Did you know master yeeks can summon a great many critters, including uniques and other summoners, and that summoned critters are automagically pets as well?

I knew it was going be fun when my master yeek summoned Uglic(?) the Uruk, but I had no idea what was about to unfold when he summoned a wererat and a crypt creep right on top of that! Throw in a good measure of cheerful leprechauns, and you have a real money making experience. I was trying to figure out how to take out the lephechauns when the master yeek summoned a berserker, the crypt creep summoned a plague bearer, and the wererat 'summoned his kin' and I suddenly found myself at the head of a 24 skaven army! Suddenly, the leprechauns were not a problem at all...:)

Pots o' gold (and silver, and gems, etc) were suddenly popping up everywhere, and all I had to do was pick 'em up. There were at least two major battles there that I took no part in, but I know they were major because of what was dropped...:)

On one dive at 900', I got 40K in treasure alone, a pack full of excellent items, the set artifact gloves 'Cunthelon'(?), and the Nature's Gifts tome. The level started as a few scattered rooms, but finished up as an arena, thanks to the efforts of 3-4 rock moles I picked up somewhere along the way...:)

When I finally left, I left over 950 pets behind...:D

Cumber
17-05-2002, 05:14:20
So you don't actually use your mana then? Also, you don't get experience for things your pets kill. But other than that, charm spells are fun. :) I'm up to the point where I keep finding Cyberdemons, and by far the easiest way of killing them is Domination (charms all monsters in sight, natural or not ;)) followed by dismiss pets. And as I'm up to level 50 anyway, it doesn't matter that I don't get experience for them. :)

The Mad Monk
17-05-2002, 05:55:43
After it built up, I didn't need mana. :)

It's true I wouldn't get experience for the kills, but I would never have taken those leprechauns without ending up broke unless I had significant backup -- insufficient area effect spells that would have had...effect. Besides, I was doing "safe profit runs" at the time so I wouldn't be caught flat-footed the next time a nature tome made an appearance at the black market.

For experience runs, my hands-down favorite pet at the moment is the moon beast -- blinds, confuses, curses, decent melee and self-heals...what more can you ask for spell-casting backup?

Least favorite -- giant slug. Spews acid and eats teamates. Gah.

The Mad Monk
18-05-2002, 12:55:41
Was just poking around the Zangband 'spoiler' section...

How the hell did 38th level Hagen appear at 650', and how in blazes did my 24th level ranger beat him!?

Nice spear, though...:D

The Mad Monk
26-05-2002, 14:54:32
Does anyone know what a Rod of Probing is supposed to do? I bought it assuming it has some kind of 'detection' function, like a Rod of Detection, but it dosen't come up with anything even on new levels. I need to know if I'm just wasting space with this thing.

I found a Scroll of Mundanity; I tried it, expecting to lose a mutation. Imagine my relief when it asked for a target in my inventory! I went ahead and happily disenchanted a plain vanilla Longsword[+5/+5]. :)

Does anyone else find it really annoying that the all-powerful *Identify* spell, which can give all the information on artifacts including activated power damage and recharge time, won't provide anything on a rod other than "You see nothing special"?

Capo W.
26-05-2002, 19:32:39
it probes a critters Hitpoints.
So, yes, its waste of space.

Sir Penguin
27-05-2002, 01:11:10
Rods of probing can be useful in certain circumstances, but not worth the spot to carry around. Great to sell, though.

SP

Cumber
27-05-2002, 06:02:32
Huh? Probing hitpoints useless? I always carry as many Rods of Probing as I find. It's very useful to find out whether that monster you just saw for the first time has a few hundred hitpoints, or 20,000. And besides, it's not all Probing does. It also gives you information on monster's resistances and stuff. Check the monster recall for stuff after you probe them. Can be very useful to find out what that very scary sleeping monster is immune to before you wake it up with your first spell.

Sir Penguin
27-05-2002, 06:08:07
Or, you could just kill lots of them and find out about them that way :).

SP

The Mad Monk
27-05-2002, 08:44:21
Thanks guys!

I'm going to give it another shot, and see how useful the extra data is.

Ran into It last night. After about fourty minutes that ranged from annoying to excruciating (and never 'fun'), I shadow walked to another map. Fortunately, I didn't lose anything important.

Any tips on taking the twat out?

Cumber
27-05-2002, 15:19:26
Pulverise Pulverise Pulverise. :)

Sir Penguin
27-05-2002, 18:31:34
Just wait until the set quest where It gets cloned and you have to deal with multiple more of It :).

SP

The Mad Monk
27-05-2002, 22:40:16
:clueless:Oh, Joy!:clueless:

It kicking me in the keester when I wasn't looking and stealing stuff was annoying; summoning multiple hydra swarms was wearing; never being able to figure out where the clown was was aggravating.

But when I read the message 'It summons a Cyberdemon', I knew it was time to leave...:bash:

I forgot to even try an 'anti-summoning corridor' :cry:, so I'll do that, I also have an idea involving the 'build doors' nature spell -- even It has to open doors, right?

...right?

Sir Penguin
28-05-2002, 05:37:50
Cyberdemons are worth lots of XP :cool:. I think you can figure out where he is with see invisible, plus the 'l'ook command, but I'm not entirely sure on that.

SP

Cumber
28-05-2002, 08:19:29
Cyberdemons aren't worth the effort to kill them until after level 50, by which time you don't need their experience. Charm them and dismiss pets, that's how I kill them. :)

And I believe the penguin is correct on the matter of seeing It.

The Mad Monk
28-05-2002, 09:12:29
Maybe it was because I was playing way over-tired, but even with the Spear of Hagen to guide me (with its see invisible), I never saw It. The description for It (yes, I looked, I'm a baaaad boy) says the character for It is a lt grey dot -- same as the floor?

I used the look command, I guess I kept missing It because of all the hydras in the way. It didn't help that for the first ten minutes or so (when It picked my pockets), I was working on the assumpition that I was dealing with a monster that was keeping out of visual range. After the pocket-picking, I became convinced that there are invisibles that can defeat see invisible, just like there are monsters that can get past sustains and resists.

Ah, well...live and learn.

Cumber
29-05-2002, 03:01:38
It is an invisible floor mimic. Until you attack it or you can see it while it does something, it won't appear on the visible monsters list, and won't show up as a target (when using * to target spells or looking, eg). But even after you've found it, It still looks like the floor, so it can be annoying to find it. That's another thing anti-summon corridors are good for. Less places to look at to try and see where it is.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
30-05-2002, 03:14:55
One impractical method for dealing with It is to have your DEX up to 18/150 or beyond. Impractical because, while it's not impossible, you'll likely not have that kind of DEX at the depths It is likely to show up at. Of couse, it won't stop any physical damage, but at least you won't have to fear It will steal 10% of your 3 million AU, or your only copy of the Book of the Unicorn.

This also works for regular thieves, too.

The Mad Monk
09-06-2002, 07:44:31
Actually, I have close to that now. :)

Because of thieves and perma-death and whatnot, I've adopted a use-it-or-lose-it mentality with this game. In short, I don't save gold after 30K or so, but spend on whatever seems most useful at the moment. This turned out to be ability pots by the dozen. :)

SP's comment on Trump tower prices got me thinking. I've set up Aglew as my base camp, mainly because the Trump Tower there is cheaper (5Kg and 150g for the two options), but sell weapons in Telmora (unless over 15K, then it's Outpost) and buy scrolls in Morivant because it's cheapest. I'll buy what the black market offers where it offers it, of course, but discovered that the one in Aglew is cheaper than the other three, to the tune of 22.5Kg per ability pot vs. 25K for the others.

At what point, if ever, do you guys do a survey on the shops (carting the same item around to each shop to sell, and pricing the same item to buy) to determine where the best buys and sells are? Or do you mainly go by feel?

Cumber
09-06-2002, 08:17:02
I go by feel. But then, I've been playing ZAngband 2.6.2, which has a randomly generated (and much larger) wilderness (and randomly generated towns). I also very rarely visit black markets, since 2.6.2 has shops that sell nifty rare stuff like stat potions and Chaos Dragon Scale Mail. High level mages also love 2.6.2; you can *always* find a rare bookstore somewhere that'll have the top level spell books, if you're prepared to pay for them.

Sir Penguin
10-06-2002, 04:57:44
I don't care. If I find a potion of Constitution for 30,000 AU somewhere, the chances that there's a cheaper one somewhere else are less than that it will disappear by the time I get back from checking whether there's a cheaper one somewhere else. So I buy it, and then, a couple of high-level ego weapon sales later, go around to find something else cool. There's always more gold down there, and all it takes is patience to get enough (and if you were smart enough to stock up on essential items beforehand, you won't need to worry about running out of money).

SP

The Mad Monk
19-07-2002, 08:39:19
What does everyone think of 'explosive breeder farming' as a way to level quickly and safely -- especially at low levels?

Capo W.
19-07-2002, 13:50:47
its cheesy, and i do it ! Up to character level 6 or so - after that the return in XP diminishes, and the character is ready to explore the dungeon for a few coins and items.

Why don't i just start exploring right away ? too much exploration inevitably means Maggots dogs for me. Those kill one quite easily in the first few character levels...

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
19-07-2002, 23:12:57
There are better ways to get huge XP early than breeder farming, and by the time breeders are worth enough XP to farm them, they're too dangerous or annoying.

Capo W.
20-07-2002, 04:56:44
there are ways (plural) to get HUGE experience with a character of level <5 ? Quai, would you care to elaborate ? I'd like to know them..

The Mad Monk
20-07-2002, 09:10:50
I don't know. White worm masses are fairly passive, do only 1-2 damage when they do attack, and are worth ~1 exp to a 1-2 level character. They're down to .25 by the time you're fifth level or so, but by that time you can 'harvest' (mostly) safely them by simply holding a move key down and running through them, so average exp gain per minute is actually reasonable.

:)


Of course, later on there are gremlins (steal food, no damage -- and no bother if you have food spells), and the ever-popular cheeful leprechaun; if they've already stolen your gold, why the hell not -- make the little buggers pay for it!

The Mad Monk
20-07-2002, 13:14:41
:shoot:

The Mad Monk
20-07-2002, 13:15:13
DaShi, update my ass, you kill monkey!

MDA
22-07-2002, 13:58:07
I've found that jumping on and off the forest map and killing any monsters you see you can handle there works pretty well for a couple of quick levels. Wouldn't recommend this in 2.6 though :)

A potion of heroism can make a tough fight much easier in early levels.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
22-07-2002, 16:05:41
Oh, I don't know. Playing 2.6, the wilderness can be dangerous, but it can also throw up some nice XP bonuses completely by chance.

One game, I started off with some wimpy character with which I proceeded to buy a nice ranged weapon (probably a short bow). I took one step out of the town gate, and what should I see lurking around the fringes of the forest squares but a bronze dragonfly. Shot it, killed it (they have low HP) and went up about 12 levels.

You can do this in 2.4, too. There are certain creatures and certain techniques that will boost you to CLevel 10+ without much in the way of danger.

re: farming, if you define a macro or keymapping to 44444444444444466666666666666 and remember not to starve to death and to keep an eye on your HP, farming becomes a matter of repeatedly hitting F6 to get 20XP.

There are better farm creatures than white worm masses. Depending on your resists and hardiness (golems take note) you can get up to CLevel 15 with a lucky farm creature find.

MDA
22-07-2002, 16:44:15
BTW, zangband.org is STILL down. :mad:

The Mad Monk
02-11-2009, 19:55:42
Playing Zangband again. Maybe more later.

MDA
03-11-2009, 11:59:02
I haven't played lately, but I did download Ultima 4 and start playing over the weekend. Origin apparently released the code and someone made it work on new computers.

The Mad Monk
03-11-2009, 18:08:47
I couldn't make it work on old computers. :(

I'm running another ranger, but completely forgot about my pets trick.

MDA
03-11-2009, 18:35:11
Rangers are nice if you can get through the early part of the game. I've never finished with any character, but I can do fairly well with those.

The Mad Monk
03-11-2009, 19:26:32
I'm very happy wih this one :D

[Zangband 2.4.0 Character Dump]

Name : Marialena Age 101 STR: 18/193
Sex : Female Height 78 INT: 18/186
Race : High-Elf Weight 166 WIS: 18/144
Class : Ranger Social Class 88 DEX: 18/***
Magic : Nature CON: 18/209
Sorcery CHR: 18/210

+ Skill 57 Level 35 Max Hit Points 536
% Deadliness 229 Experience 1013340 Cur Hit Points 536
+ To AC 83 Max Exp 1013340 Max SP (Mana) 265
Base AC 28 Exp to Adv. 1035000 Cur SP (Mana) 265
Gold 441166

(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Perception : Excellent Blows/Round : 3
Bows/Throw : Superb Searching : Excellent Shots/Round : 2.0
Saving Throw: Chaos Rank Disarming : Superb Avg.Dam./Rnd: 123
Stealth : Amber [2] Magic Device: Chaos Rank Infra-Vision: 110'


(Character Background)
You are the only child of a Noldor Mage. You have light
grey eyes, straight black hair, and a fair complexion.




[Miscellaneous information]

Maximize Mode: ON
Preserve Mode: ON
Autoscum: OFF
Small Levels: ENABLED
Arena Levels: ENABLED
Hard Quests: OFF
Num. Random Quests: 20
Nightmare Mode: OFF
Recall Depth: Level 30 (1500')


abcdefghijkl@
Acid : .............
Elec : ......+......
Fire : ..+..........
Cold : ........+....
Poison: .............
Fear : +............
Light : ............+
Dark : .+...........
Shard : .............
Blind : .............
Conf : .........+...
Sound : .............
Nether: ...........+.
Nexus : +............
Chaos : .........+.+.
Disnch: .............

abcdefghijkl@
Speed : .....+.......
Reflect : .............
AuraFire: .............
AuraElec: ......+......
NoTelprt: .........+...
No Magic: .............
Wraithfm: .............
DrainExp: .............
Teleport: ++...........

abcdefghijkl@
Free Actn: +..........+.
SeeInvis.: .....+......+
Hold Life: .....+.......
Telepathy: .............
SlwDigstn: +............
Regen. : +............
Levitate : .............
PermLite : .............
Aggravate: .............
EvilCurse: .............

You have defeated 97056 enemies.


[Virtues]

You are the polar opposite of Nature.
You are the living embodiment of Temperance.
You are very virtuous in Vitality.
You are the living embodiment of Harmony.
You are the living embodiment of Mysticism.
You are somewhat virtuous in Valour.
You are a great champion of Sacrifice.
You are the living embodiment of Diligence.


[Character Equipment]

a) a Heavy Lance (Trump Weapon) (4d8) (+12,+9) (+1 to searching)
b) The Long Bow 'Bananoid' (x3) (+10,+20) (+3 to searching)
c) a Quartzite Ring of Flames [+10] {uncursed}
d) a Jade Ring of Constitution (+5)
e) an Amulet of Brilliance (+4)
f) The Star of Elendil (+1 to speed)
g) The Double Ring Mail 'Dildu' (+11,+5) [15,+7] (+3 to stealth) {uncursed}
h) a Fur Cloak of Aman [3,+14] (+3 to stealth)
i) a Small Leather Shield of Resist Cold [3,+7]
j) The Metal Cap 'Worfskin' (+14,+7) [3,+7] (+4 to stealth)
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Agility [2,+7] (+4)
l) The Pair of Soft Leather Boots of Flora [2,+15] (+5) {uncursed}


[Character Inventory]

a) a Nature Spellbook [Call of the Wild]
b) a Nature Spellbook [Nature Mastery]
c) a Nature Spellbook [Nature's Gifts] {!k!d}
d) a Sorcery Spellbook [Master Sorcerer's Handbook]
e) 2 Sorcery Spellbooks [Pattern Sorcery] {!k!d}
f) a Rod of Healing {!z!d!k}
g) 4 Silver-Plated Rods of Pesticide
h) 20 Steel-Plated Rods of Light
i) 6 Rods of Lightning Balls
j) 2 Rusty Rods of Fire Balls
k) 3 Rods of Cold Balls
l) 3 Tin-Plated Wands of Clone Monster (25 charges)
m) The Broad Sword 'Chainsword' (9d5) (+7,+7) (+2)
n) a Long Sword of Morgul (2d5) (-12,-13) [-1] {cursed}
o) 9 Sheaf Arrows (5d4) (+6,+2) (98/196)
p) 16 Sheaf Arrows (5d4) (+0,+0) (96/192)


[Home Inventory - Outpost]

a) a Nickel-Plated Rod of Perception
b) a Lead-Plated Rod of Speed
c) a Willow Staff of *Destruction* (3 charges)
d) a Quartz Ring of Free Action
e) a Jasper Ring of See Invisible
f) an Onyx Ring of Fear Resistance {uncursed}
g) a Bronze Ring of Light and Darkness Resistance
h) a Topaz Ring of Sound Resistance
i) a Ring of Shard Resistance {90% off}
j) an Amulet of Slow Digestion {75% off}
k) a Bronze Amulet of Anti-Teleportation
l) a Long Sword (2d5) (+3,+4)
m) a Sling (x2) (+3,+5)
n) 27 Bolts (2d5) {cursed}


[Home Inventory - Telmora]

a) 6 Sky Blue Potions of Slowness
b) a Chartreuse Potion of *Healing*
c) an Oily Black Potion of Restore Mana
d) a Manly Potion of Resistance
e) 3 Orange Speckled Potions of Curing
f) a Scroll of Phase Door {75% off}
g) a Rod of Lightning Bolts {90% off}
h) a Tortoise Shell Amulet of Searching (+6)
i) an Amulet of Charisma (+6)
j) a Brass Lantern (with 6328 turns of light) {90% off}
k) a Cloak of Aman [1,+23] (+3 to stealth)
l) a Small Metal Shield [5,-1]
m) The Dagger 'Nimthanc' (1d4) (+4,+6)
n) a Khopesh (Defender) (2d4) (+11,+5) [+7] (+3 to stealth)
o) an Espadon of Slay Evil (2d9) (+7,+4) {90% off}
p) a Blade of Chaos (6d5) (+4,+3)
q) a Trident (Chaotic) (1d8) (+5,+8)
r) a Broad Axe (Trump Weapon) (2d6) (+8,+11) (+1 to searching) {!d!k}
s) a Guisarme of *Slay* Undead (2d5) (+9,+4) (+1)
t) a Mace of Burning (2d4) (+8,+2)
u) a Morning Star (Pattern Weapon) (2d6) (+6,+12) (+1)
v) a Shovel (1d2) (+0,+0) (+1)
w) a Long Bow (x3) (+8,+6)


[Home Inventory - Morivant]

a) 3 Dark Red Mushrooms of Poison
b) 3 Yellow Mushrooms of Blindness
c) 3 Dark Blue Mushrooms of Paranoia
d) a White Mushroom of Confusion
e) 3 Blue Mushrooms of Hallucination
f) 2 Furry Mushrooms of Paralysis
g) a Slimy Mushroom of Weakness
h) 3 Light Green Mushrooms of Sickness
i) a Light Blue Mushroom of Naivety
j) 6 Tan Mushrooms of Unhealth
k) 2 Grey Mushrooms of Disease
l) 2 Dark Green Mushrooms of Cure Poison
m) 2 Violet Mushrooms of Cure Blindness
n) a Black Mushroom of Cure Paranoia
o) 4 Green Mushrooms of Cure Confusion
p) a White Spotted Mushroom of Cure Serious Wounds
q) a Red Mushroom of Restore Strength
r) a Wrinkled Mushroom of Restore Constitution
s) 2 Slime Molds
t) The Phial of Galadriel (+1 to searching) {uncursed}
u) a Long Bow (x3) (+1,+1) {uncursed}
v) a Human Skeleton


[Home Inventory - Angwil]

a) a Dark Green Potion of Healing
b) a Potion of Restore Life Levels
c) 2 Scrolls of *Identify*
d) a Scroll of *Identify* {25% off}
e) a Scroll titled "vly engur" of Remove Curse
f) 2 Scrolls of Remove Curse {25% off}
g) a Copper-Plated Rod of Detection
h) a Nickel Rod of Probing
i) 2 Tin-Plated Wands of Clone Monster (4 charges)
j) a Hickory Staff of Summoning (4 charges)
k) 2 Amethyst Rings of Teleportation {cursed}
l) a Turquoise Ring of Confusion Resistance
m) The Incandescent Light of Edison (+3 to infravision) {uncursed}
n) an Elven Cloak [4,+8] (+2 to stealth) {uncursed}
o) The Set of Gauntlets of Corwin [2,+15] (+4)
p) The Small Sword 'Sting' (2d6) (+7,+8) (+2)
q) a Beaked Axe of Slaying (4d7) (+6,+7)
r) 79 Arrows (3d4) (+0,+0) (57/115)
s) 19 Sheaf Arrows (5d4) (+4,+4) (100/200)
t) 22 Sheaf Arrows (5d4) (+2,+5) (100/201)
u) 13 Magical Figurines of a Greater hell-beast

Sir Penguin
05-11-2009, 05:53:53
I have a level 20 vampire nature monk that I uploaded to my school share in December 2006. I played it for a while during downtime at work, then I lost all my data through a simultaneous combination of theft, work computer reappropriation, and a couple filesystem crashes. I started over again at level 20 last year, got to around 3000', and then forgot to copy it from my XP virtual machine before wiping my hard drive to install Windows 7. I haven't found the heart to try again yet.

SP

The Mad Monk
07-11-2009, 18:03:12
That sucks. :(

It's surprising just how re-addicting this game can be.