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Beta1
23-05-2006, 18:37:34
Thought I would start a new thread specifically for this as its such a common question. So post your favourite ship loadouts here so we can copy your l33t pirate ganking setups!

I'll start with my new baby.

Enyo (gallente assault frigate)

Hi slots - 2xanode light neutron blaster (antimatter) 2x lnamed light ion blasters (antimatter) 1x rocket launcher
meds - named 1MN AB, cap recharger
Lo - T2 small armour repper, cap relay, named adaptive nano plate, magnetic field stabiliser (hybrid turret damage mod)

Don't even attempt to fly this without assault ships 3 or ideally level 4.

Every level of assault ships gives you +15% armor and shield resist to kinetic and +10% to thermal. At level one your an expensive easy to kill frigate. With level 3 you have over 80% kinetic resists and 70% thermal. At level 4 you can drop the resist plate and add another damage mod.

Basically this is the best anti-serpentis ship I've ever flown. Its amazingly short ranged (optimal is about 1500m) but nothing that can hit you with a hybrid weapon can damage you and anything that could damage you cant hit you because of your high speed and small signature (smaller than a normal frigate). those blasters regularly hit for 50 points and I have got frequent 100-120 hits. You can insta pop almost any normal frigate at around 5km and you can take down a BS given time. Given a few more skills I reckon I can get 4 neutrons blasters on it to max the damage

And best of all its bright red. Just dont get webbed or try and use it pvp as you will get webbed and then killed from outside your blaster range.

Anyone got a good dominix loadout. What ever I do the guns just seem underpowered against cruisers/BCs

Venom
23-05-2006, 18:54:57
I'm pretty sure my ship setup sucks.

JM^3
24-05-2006, 09:03:07
Well, I had earlier the Dante:

A Scythe (5/3/3) with:

1 Power Diagnostic 1
1 Nanofiber
1 Overdrive
1 Battery
1 Medium Shield Booster
1 Active Shield Hardener or Med Shield Extender (I don't remember which I had on it when it was blown up)
3 250 mm Artillery
2 Standard Missiles

This sucked and went up in seconds versus a hard 3/5 Human Cattle mission.

Jon Miller

JM^3
24-05-2006, 09:06:48
Currently, unamed:

a Bellicose (5/4/3) with

3 250 mm artillery
1 Malkuth Launcher
1 Standard Launcher
3 Named Shield Power Relays
4 Large Shield Extenders

I have some 7000 Shield, and a recharge rate of ~490s.

Jon Miller

Lurker the Second
24-05-2006, 15:11:32
Looks like a much better tank, Jon, but the shield tankers here can provide more input.

The only thing I would note is that the 250 mm artillery might be too big to take out frigates. (I know a 250 mm railgun is unless you use a target painter, dunno about artillery b/c I never used them). You will get a lot of frigates on your level 2 missions. Maybe that's what your launchers are for, but personally I'd prepare primarily for frigates and secondarily for cruisers.

Venom
24-05-2006, 15:32:47
To effectively battle frigates you've got to have small guns. 150's can have a hard time hitting frigates and 2 launchers won't be enough to take out the tough frigates. It will work for most encounters, but you'll run in to some things that will have high resists to your missles and reppers or shield boosters.

JM^3
24-05-2006, 15:57:27
these are artillery, that is the smallest artillery..

JM

Lurker the Second
24-05-2006, 16:03:54
You'll just have to test it then. If it won't hit frigates, like I suspect, then switch to another weapon group. Also, I would put a webber in one of the midslots in case you have trouble hitting the frigates.

JM^3
24-05-2006, 17:49:37
I have a harder time hitting Inteceptors.. but that is all I have noticed so far.

JM
(artillery is what I always use, it is like rail guns, there is also autocannons, but that is close range)

Beta1
24-05-2006, 18:15:34
I would be tempted to look at shield hardeners and a webifier. The weeby will make a massive difference to you killing frigates

Skanky Burns
24-05-2006, 20:48:01
But most webbys need you to be ~5500m away, which would possibly reduce arty accuracy by being too close. Not that I know their range off by heart.

I use a gall. destroyer at the moment, the Catalyst. It is a big step up from frigates, and is a dedicated frigate-hunting machine. With 1273 armour, its a nice tank for level 2 missions too. Will post its build later.

Does anyone have a good gall. cruiser tank build?

Venom
24-05-2006, 20:54:34
Not lurker, because he gets his shit blown up all the time.

Beta1
24-05-2006, 20:58:03
I can check what my vexor loadout is. Seems pretty survivable but it needs high drone skills - my basic tactic is to stay >40km away from the target.

The celestis tanks nicely - you can use all those med slots to really push the capacitor recharge through the roof then use that to drive 2 repairs. Its not a resist setup just a pure repairer active tank.

The Brutix tanks amazingly well but thats a BC

webbies have a range of 10km and the reduction in traversal that you will get is more than enough to offset any range issues.

Venom
24-05-2006, 21:10:23
Webbies work good for me because I load the guns up with short range ammo and plow on in. Usually about 7.5km away.

Beta1
24-05-2006, 21:52:46
I dont use a webby at the momnet cos of the cap recharger although I am thinking of switching.

If anyone is looking for things to buy one of the best things I've bought recently is ammo blueprints for whatever ammo you use most. Its cheaper to make it and its quick. just recycle the junk loot and use it to make more bullets.

Venom
24-05-2006, 22:02:22
Hmmm, now that could be handy.

Lurker the Second
25-05-2006, 05:06:21
What bullets? Drones rule. ;)

Skanky Burns
26-05-2006, 10:34:48
Gallente Destroyer - Catalyst

Hi slots:
6 x 125mm "Scout" I railguns (Thorium ammo)

Med slots:
2 x Fixed parallel link-capacitor 1

Low slots:
Small armour repair 1
2 x 200mm reinforced titanium plate 1

Drone:
None. With space for only 1 drone, why bother?

1273 total armour and the cap lasts a fair bit while the repper is running.

Snotty
26-05-2006, 10:59:55
My initial harpy setup, may be subject to tweaking

highs

4x 150mm scout railgun
1x Malkuth missile launcher (named standard launcher with low cpu req)

mids

1x 1mn ab
1x tech 2 small shield booster
1x passive therm shield hardener
1x passive kin shield hardener

lows

1x power diagnostic system
1x co-processor

hopefully that should do the trick. kin and therm resists are at about 82% and 86% respectivly, and my cpu and powergrid are pretty much full. Ive got about 10km range on the guns with antimatter, and around 20km range on the missile

Centara Fugue
22-06-2006, 06:25:50
MASH ship (Exequror set up to heal someone else's armor)

highs

2x Medium Remote Armor Repair System I
2x Small Remote Armor Repair System I

mids

2x Medium Capacitor Battery II
2x Cap Recharger I

lows

3x Capacitor Power Relay I

I can sustain 81.25 armor HP per second at 30 km range (using only the 2x Medium Reppers), and I can do 121.875 armor HP per second in bursts, but at only 21 km. If I invest in some named modules, I could boost those figures by about 20% and increase the ranges.

Centara Fugue
22-06-2006, 17:11:01
Jon, I've been playing in Caldari ships lately (well, just a Ferox so far), doing passive shield tanking. I do all the tricks of getting my shield as big as possible and reducing the recharge time as much as possible to passive tank (i.e. shield extenders, shield rechargers, shield power relays). One thing to consider when facing an enemy that only does one or two damage types is that you can almost double your effective shield regeneration rate by replacing one or two of the midslots with active hardeners. They reduce the damage from those damage types by 50% each, so you take half the damage per second, or the equivalent of having twice the recharge rate. The only problem is that you lose two midslots, which would have had (in your case) large shield extenders (or shield rechargers, whichever gives the larger shield/second figure), and that might reduce your shield/second by as much as you benefit from the hardeners, and the hardeners turn off if you run out of cap! In my experience with the Ferox, the effective doubling of the shield/second figure by using hardeners is a greater increase than the decrease from taking out two extenders or rechargers (only a small fraction of recharge rate lost).

For those who may not know what I'm talking about, you can estimate how much shield (or cap) you get back per second at the peak of the regeneration curve (about 1/3 shield or cap) using the formula

2.5 x max / recharge time

This is just a rule of thumb. There is a good passive shield tanking (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=131367) thread on the eve forums, as well as one with all the gritty details about how the cap works (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=116993).

JM^3
22-06-2006, 22:07:33
7000 Shield HP, 460 s recharge

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
23-06-2006, 13:00:34
If I get around to it, I'll try to post a couple of setups with my current combat ship, a Ferox, doing a fully passive shield tank and doing a mostly passive tank with hardeners. One thing I was afraid of with using the hardeners is that I might run out of cap, but I think they and all my weapons can run forever. The cap recharges slowly, but it is more than fast enough (I think) to run all that stuff. On a Minmatar ship, the guns don't use much (any?) cap, so you should also be fine.

I think if you're able to fit 4 large shield extenders on a cruiser, you certainly can't fit medium guns and heavy missiles in the high slots. Then again, since you're doing level 2 missions, you wouldn't want to, since you're mostly shooting at frigates or drones (and the occasional cruiser or 4). My setup isn't as tanky as it could be with small guns and bays, but I'm doing level 3 missions mostly (or getting blown up helping on level 4 missions ;)), so medium-sized weapons FTW.

Another thing I am just beginning to realize is that if you switch out 2 of your mid slots, you halve the number of large extenders you're using, which doesn't quite cut your shield in half, but it comes pretty close on that ship. That means using hardeners would only be marginally better than using the extenders in your case, and if the enemies do 3 or 4 damage types, you're better off with the extenders (or if you don't want to have to worry about what kind of enemy you'll be facing). I bet you come through all or most missions without even breaking a sweat with your current setup.

JM^3
23-06-2006, 22:47:36
hmm, so if I do (from QuickFit)

4xLarge Shield Extender 2
3xNamed Power Relay

I get Max of 9400 HP
57.4 HP/s regen
0/60/40/20 % Resist

if I do
3xLarge Shield Extender 2
3xNamed Power Relay
1xInvulnerability Field 1 (I don't have the skills for 2)

I get Max Shield of 7300 HP
44.6 HP/s regen
25/70/55/40 % Resist

Hm... (I know that putting a Recharger in instead of an Extender 2 is a bad idea, I only get ~53 HP/s regen)

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
24-06-2006, 18:34:47
Check out those Caldari cruisers and think of them in terms of shield tanking. Also, the Celestis (mentioned by somebody earlier in this thread) looks like it might be a good Gallente shield tanker.

In answer to Skanky's earlier post about a good Gallente cruiser build, I have to say it has been long enough since I did it that it is hazy, but I used to do level 2 missions in a Vexor with an armor tank. For the level 2 missions, small guns and drones are often as good or better than medium ones, so the hi slots were almost always 4 150mm rails (the frigate one, not dual), with the last slot I think a smartbomb for taking out drones that would get close. The mids were a combination of large cap batteries, a webber, and an afterburner (sometimes leaving off the webber and afterburner to have more cap). In the lowslots, I would do 2 hardeners specific to the enemies I was facing (originally passive, but later I switched to active because the capacitor load is small and the active hardeners allow you to tank more damage), a medium armor repairer, and one other thing. The last lowslot was likely a nanofiber internal structure to make the ship more nimble (the agility bonus on those is nice, and the speed bonus of course), but doing it now I'd go with a capacitor power relay in that slot, probably, again to keep the cap up so I could tank longer.

Now that i've said all that, I think some of it may not actually be what I used, but it is what I'd do now, having learned more about how to do an armor tank setup. The armor repairer will eat lots of cap, but if you can get it so your cap regen is high enough, you can run your armor repairer, weapons, and hardeners for a long time, perhaps indefinitely. Another option for the last hi slot is a nosferatu, so you can suck cap from your enemies and keep your tank going longer.

I guess all that talking doesn't give you a build, but maybe it gives an idea how I'd think if I were going to do a build for that ship.

Centara Fugue
26-06-2006, 12:26:26
I'm currently in the process of trying to figure out how best to fit a Raven. I began by looking at a passive shield tank, but the natural shield regen is rather disappointing: similar to what I get on my Ferox, and the Ferox has a bonus to all shield resists per battlecruiser level. I had to log off last night before I got a chance to try some of the stuff I've been reading about, but here is my idea (not sure it will fit).

1x Shield Boost Amplifier
1x XLarge Shield Booster
2x (or 3x) NPC-specific hardeners
2x (or 1x) Large Shield Extenders or Large Capacitor Batteries

Lowslots will be either cap or shield relays, depending on which gives better shield/second. The shield relays would make the shield's natural recharge contribution larger, but I'm pretty sure it would make it so I could easily drain the cap with the booster, whereas the cap relays would help keep the cap going longer, but would reduce the contribution from the shield's natural regeneration. I think the booster + amp is a much larger recharge rate than the shield's natural rate, so I'll probably focus on feeding my cap.

Any advice from you folks who've done successful fittings for this ship? I'm talkin to you, Snotty!

Snotty
26-06-2006, 13:07:02
er, xlarge shield and amp look good. then i stick on hardners and so on. i guess i use my long range missiles mostly to stop things doing damage to me

Centara Fugue
27-06-2006, 21:00:46
After fitting my Raven out last night in what I thought to be a good active shield configuration, I looked more closely at the modules I was fitting, in particular the lowslot items. I wanted as much cap as possible, so I put in some cap power relays (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/engineeringequipment/capacitorpowerrelays/1445.asp). I was used to using those from my days armor tanking in Gallente ships. I had recently been using shield power relays (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/shield/shieldpowerrelays/2331.asp) on my Ferox to improve its passive tank.

The interesting thing is that, even though these modules have similar names, they work in very different ways. The shield power relay reduces cap recharge rate while increasing shield recharge rate, but the cap power relay reduces shield boosting, not recharge rate, and increases cap recharge rate. The effect of the cap power relays is to gimp your active shield booster.

To power an active armor tank (there's not a passive variant of armor tanking, as far as I know), you buff your cap up so you can run your repairer(s) as long as possible. With active shield tanking, this is harder to do. I say it is harder to do, but in fact that's not the whole story. I played with my Raven setup, switching the cap power relays to power diagnostic systems (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/engineeringequipment/powerdiagnosticsystems/1539.asp), and if I also switched the XLarge Shield Booster for just a Large Shield Booster, I could run that active setup forever. That's where the difference is. There's no such thing as an XLarge Armor Repairer, so you're stuck with using two low slots for 2 repairers.

It probably all comes out in the wash, but I wanted to warn anybody who may not have looked closely about the difference between shield power relays and capacitor power relays.

chagarra
28-06-2006, 03:34:44
I found that taking shield techs to 4 and 5 was a MUCH better option..
You can virtually double your shielding for less modules, in fact close to 100% passive shielding is available

Centara Fugue
28-06-2006, 06:00:59
That sounds awesome. I'm pained by how slowly the shield and missile skills are training. That's the downside with trying another race's ships.

Then again, it's like getting a whole new toy box to rummage around in.

JM^3
29-06-2006, 16:16:41
I am thinking of changing my ships.

Bellicose (5 high slots)
3 Extenders 2, 1 Invulnerbility Field (this is 80% tank)

Rupture (6 high slots)
2 Extenders 2, 1 Invulnerbility Field (this is 100% tank)

Stabber (6 high slots)
2 Extenders 2, 1 AB MK 2 (this is 50% tank, but 300% speed (which I don't consider in the tank))

These are referenced versus the Rupture and all low slots contain named Shield Power Relays. Probably the Stabber would be the cheapest to buy and operate.

There are of course armor tanking loadouts, which the Rupture is assuredly the best on (the rupture is also the best on damage). I think the speed thing makes me want to go with the stabber (I am tired of going slow).

Jon Miller
edit:
for passive tanking (especially on targets smaller than a cruiser) theBellicose probably does the best damage.
Bellicose: 4 Med Drones or 3 Med + 2 Small Drones
Stabber: 1 Small Drone
Rupture: 3 Med Drones or 1 Med and 4 Small Drones

JM^3
29-06-2006, 17:39:10
With 2 skills (Frigate 5 and Assault Ships 1) I can do this:

Jaguar:
3x150mm AC
1 Malkuth Standard
1 Medium Shield Extender 2
1 Invulnerability Field 1
1 Named AB
3 Named Shield Power Relays

643 m/s
1403 Shield HP (204 s recharge, 17.1 HP/s)
81.25%/70%/55%/70%

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
29-06-2006, 18:05:32
I read this part 5 times...
JM^3...(this is 80% tank)...
(this is 100% tank)...
(this is 50% tank, but 300% speed (which I don't consider in the tank))...

before I got to this next part...

These are referenced versus the Rupture and all low slots contain named Shield Power Relays.

:tizzy: Damn you and your out-of-order communication! :bash:

Sigh...

Ok, now that's over with :lol:

I don't know that your invulnerability field actually gains you anything. You have sacrificed a midslot that could have been a large shield extender II for a 25% resist on all damage types. Does taking out that shield extender make your recharge less than 3/4 what it was before? If so, you're better off with the extender. What might actually be better would be using two hardeners for particular damage types, so you get 50% to those two resists. The same rule would apply though. If your shield recharge is less than 1/2 what it was before, you're better off with the extenders.

Probably the Stabber would be the cheapest to buy and operate.

There are of course armor tanking loadouts, which the Rupture is assuredly the best on (the rupture is also the best on damage). I think the speed thing makes me want to go with the stabber (I am tired of going slow).

Of the ships you're mentioning in this post (I'll get to the next one in a sec), the Rupture is best. You can get Stabber speed in a Rupture by putting 2 speed increasers in the bottom slots (I prefer nanofiber, but others seem to like the overdrive injectors. You can feel the difference in agility - gain with nanofiber, loss with injectors.)

"What?" you cry. "Won't I be gimping my Rupture?"

Well, what you're left with is the same slots as the Stabber, but with more base shield and armor HP (and a little faster). You'll have to do the math to see how it compares if you sacrifice two lowslots for speed.

edit:
for passive tanking (especially on targets smaller than a cruiser) theBellicose probably does the best damage.
Bellicose: 4 Med Drones or 3 Med + 2 Small Drones
Stabber: 1 Small Drone
Rupture: 3 Med Drones or 1 Med and 4 Small Drones
I could be wrong, but if you're facing frigates, small drones are best. I think you're better off with a full load of small drones (vs all or mostly frigates) than with your mixture of small and medium. The medium drones miss frigates just like a medium gun would. Against mostly cruisers (some level 3 missions) the mediums will be better.

Centara Fugue
29-06-2006, 18:10:21
Originally posted by JM^3
With 2 skills (Frigate 5 and Assault Ships 1) I can do this:

Jaguar:
643 m/s
1403 Shield HP (204 s recharge, 17.1 HP/s)
81.25%/70%/55%/70%

Jon Miller
Mmmm, that's very nice. Cargo capacity is kinda small tho, so all that speed will not avail you in loot gathrin', if there's too much loot. Are you going fast to fight or to go around gathering loot? I mostly just sit still to fight, although I used to orbit in a cruiser, I guess.

And would you quit it with the damn Invulnerability Fields? I know it sounds cool, but it isn't better!

JM^3
29-06-2006, 18:15:42
Well, since I don't carry Med guns, the drones are my real damage against Cruisers, I think. It always takes me a bit to kill Cruisers, and there are some that you have to kill in Level 2 missions (I have killed up to 4 in one dogfight).

Hmm, yeah, the Rupture is just overall better than the stabber. But the power of the Passive Tank is in the Shield Power Relays (and Extenders) and so I always want to do that, maybe what I should do is Rupture and AB instead of hardener. As for whether the hardeners are better or the Extender, I think it depends on the damage type. T1 ships have 0 and 20 % naturally versus EM and Thermal, an Invulnerbility Field is a huge increase versus those types of damage (moving it to 25 and 40, I think).

Jon Miller

JM^3
29-06-2006, 18:18:41
Originally posted by Centara Fugue
Mmmm, that's very nice. Cargo capacity is kinda small tho, so all that speed will not avail you in loot gathrin', if there's too much loot. Are you going fast to fight or to go around gathering loot? I mostly just sit still to fight, although I used to orbit in a cruiser, I guess.

And would you quit it with the damn Invulnerability Fields? I know it sounds cool, but it isn't better!

I can't fit another Extender.

Hmm, maybe a webifier? or a Shield Recharger? (or a small extender?)

I agree the invulnerbility shield is stupid on a AF (already high resists).

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
29-06-2006, 18:28:13
Originally posted by JM^3
Well, since I don't carry Med guns, the drones are my real damage against Cruisers, I think.

Your other post said "targets smaller than a cruiser." I have no argument with you on medium drones working well on cruiser-sized targets and above.

... But the power of the Passive Tank is in the Shield Power Relays (and Extenders) and so I always want to do that, maybe what I should do is Rupture and AB instead of hardener.

The frigates will hit you no matter how fast you go in a cruiser. In level 2 missions, mostly you have frigates to deal with.

As for whether the hardeners are better or the Extender, I think it depends on the damage type. T1 ships have 0 and 20 % naturally versus EM and Thermal, an Invulnerbility Field is a huge increase versus those types of damage (moving it to 25 and 40, I think).

I think what hasn't come across must be that in most missions, the enemies do 2 damage types, not four. Even in the ones in which they do all 4 damage types, it often isn't even across the board. In the few cases in which the damage is even across the board, the Invulnerability field is better, but in all other cases, you're better off toughening against what the enemy uses and ignoring what he doesn't. You'd get 50 and 60 resists in EM and Thermal in your example case, and if that's all the enemy does, you're twice as tough.

http://eveinfo.com has a great database of enemies and the damage type they do, as well as what they're weak against. Also, there's a database of level 3 and 4 missions, for when you get to them.

JM^3
29-06-2006, 18:34:52
Hmm, so I should spend more time studying?

Well, I know Amarr at least use EM, as do some others.

JM

Centara Fugue
29-06-2006, 18:48:02
Ferox (Caldari Battlecruiser)
Mission setup

High slots:
5x Large Missile Launcher I
2x 250mm Railgun I

Mid slots:
2x Large Shield Extender II
3x rat-specific hardeners

Low slots:
2x Ballistic Control System I (or II)
2x Shield Power Relay

I carry iron and antimatter for the railguns and choose a missile and drone type appropriate for the NPCs I'm fighting. The three hardeners are 2x of one type and 1x of the other type of damage the NPCs do, with the double hardening going on whichever of my resists is weaker.

- Updated to remove some superfluous comments and be up to date with the skills and equipment I'm using now.

Centara Fugue
29-06-2006, 20:48:19
Dang Jon, I'm sorry.

I just looked back at your post comparing shield regen with 4 extender IIs to 3 extender IIs + 1 invulnerability field. It does look like that, for your Bellicose, the invulnerability just edges out the all-extenders build. I guess you knew that all along.

I'm still curious how it would be with 2 extender IIs and 2 50% hardeners. Probably another marginal gain is my guess, but only if facing enemies with 2 or fewer damage types. It's possible it might even be worse.

Perhaps I'm beating this in the ground... somebody post something other than a passive shield tank!

JM^3
29-06-2006, 21:31:04
OK, here is a loadout which probably sucks...

Stabber:
2 Malkuth Missiles, 4 150mm ACs
1 100 MN AB 1
2 Medium Cap. Booster
1 Beta Reactor Control
2 Small Armor Repairer 2s

Lasts about a minute going full bore, goes 1077 m/s. Heals 160 Armor HP every 6 seconds.

Jon Miller

Lurker the Second
29-06-2006, 22:20:12
Yeah, that sucks.

JM^3
29-06-2006, 22:37:06
Well, I don't have the skills for a MicroWarp Drive (which would be much much better to use to go that speed).

JM

Snotty
30-06-2006, 06:28:19
are you guys using a website to test these loadouts or in game?

My active shield tank involves shield boosters, active+passive hardners and power diagnostic systems, with balistic control systems to increase damage output. I just see what I can fit into the ship and still have everything I need

Lurker the Second
30-06-2006, 12:04:50
We use QuickFit. Here is a link to the EVE forum thread that introduces it. Use the link there to download it. It's a Java application.

Link (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=256672)

JM^3
30-06-2006, 16:20:44
Originally posted by Centara Fugue
Mmmm, that's very nice. Cargo capacity is kinda small tho, so all that speed will not avail you in loot gathrin', if there's too much loot. Are you going fast to fight or to go around gathering loot? I mostly just sit still to fight, although I used to orbit in a cruiser, I guess.

And would you quit it with the damn Invulnerability Fields? I know it sounds cool, but it isn't better!

I always orbit. But I haven't fle wanything larger than a cruiser.

JM

JM^3
30-06-2006, 16:22:21
Originally posted by Centara Fugue

I just looked back at your post comparing shield regen with 4 extender IIs to 3 extender IIs + 1 invulnerability field. It does look like that, for your Bellicose, the invulnerability just edges out the all-extenders build. I guess you knew that all along.


I did for the Bellicose, I didn't think about the other ships I put it on (and it isn't worth while with Extender 1s, I think). Probably the two Hardeners would be better (but would have the problem of changing between missions).

JM

Centara Fugue
01-08-2006, 22:32:43
I got my raven damaged so much (armor and structure) that I couldn't undock once I docked at a station and fitted the hull and armor reppers. Lurker commented that if I docked with some module that increased hp and then took it off, I would lose the HP bonus it provided and that might raise my percentage damaged too much to fly the ship. I replied that I didn't have any modules like that fitted, so that wasn't what was causing it.

After spending 4 million isk, I was able to undock and repair the remaining damage to my armor (4 million reduced the hull damage to 0 and partially healed the armor), it dawned on me that I could use Lurker's advice in reverse. I could put modules on the ship that boost the HP (armor plating of some kind), and maybe by putting undamaged modules on, I could extend my HP enough to undock and save that wasted repair money.

I'll try that sometime when I have so much damage I can't undock again.

JM^3
01-08-2006, 23:40:53
lol you are lucky you still have ship...

I hav estarted active tanking a Cyclone

my defense is
two T2 Passive Hardeners
one T1 Boost Amplifier
one T2 Med Booster
one T1/named Active Hardener

one T1 Damage Control in low slot
one named Power Diagnostic in low slot

I am using Assault Missiles (named) and 650mm Art (named) and gyros (named) for offense

JM

Beta1
02-08-2006, 16:04:46
My L4 mission running loadouts

All for a Domi

Guns loadout:

2x350mm, 3x250mm rails (usually compressed coil or better), 1x drone range extender if needed for the mission (if not another 250mm)

4x cap rechargers (T2 if poss), 1x 100MN AB

1x Cap power relay, 2x passive energized plates (I use dark blood ones for therm/kin), 2x active plates, 1xLAR2, 1x Damage mod

Sometimes the damage mod is switched for another resist plate.

Alternate loadout

4x250mm 2x heavy NOS
3xcap rechargers (T2 if poss), 1x 100MN AB, 1x webber/painter/ECM....
1x Cap power relay, 2x passive energized plates (I use dark blood ones for therm/kin), 2x active plates, 1xLAR2, 1x Damage mod

Doesnt tank quite as well unless you can get the NOS on something as its much worse for cap (20% less recharge). It is possible to get three havy NOS on but it gets very tight for power. I sometimes use 2 LAR2s for tough missions but that needs a lot of cap.

most of the damage comes from drones - I usually carry 5 sentries, 5+ heavies, 5+ mediums, 5 T2 mediums and some repair drones.

For BS it seems cap rechargers are better than cap bats.

I wouldnt try to tank a extraveganza on my own but it easily completes slavers, duo or death, assault, serpentis spies etc. without much trouble. For drone missions take off a couple of guns and add 2 large EM smartbombs (lo sec only or you'll get concorded), wipes out the annoying little drones very quick - just make sure yours are out of range or in the hold.

Centara Fugue
02-08-2006, 16:20:19
Originally posted by Beta1
For drone missions take off a couple of guns and add 2 large EM smartbombs (lo sec only or you'll get concorded)

Are you sure you'll get concorded? I used to use smartbombs in hi-sec in missions and never got concorded.

Koyaanisqatsi
02-08-2006, 16:51:15
I tried to use one once, and got a warning that if I did I'd lose sec rating.

Havoc
02-08-2006, 17:04:00
My Lvl 4 Ship Setup for Raven

Low Slots:
3 PDs
2 T2 Ballistic Controls

Medium Slots
T2 XL Shield Booster
Boost Amp
3 Named Active Hardeners
T2 Cap Recharger

High Slots
6 Arbalest Cruise Launchers
2 Named Heavy Nos

I can't wait until they release T3.

Beta1
02-08-2006, 17:08:38
Originally posted by Centara Fugue
Are you sure you'll get concorded? I used to use smartbombs in hi-sec in missions and never got concorded.

you have to be carefull - if you wing an acceleration gate you can be in trouble...

Mraal
02-08-2006, 17:26:07
yeah, hi sec smartbombing is fine, be careful of neutral structures, stations, and players, clipping those will be bad. I've had a blast with smartbombs in missions in .8 or .9 space

HelloKitty
03-08-2006, 14:16:47
Originally posted by Beta1
My L4 mission running loadouts

All for a Domi

Guns loadout:

2x350mm, 3x250mm rails (usually compressed coil or better), 1x drone range extender if needed for the mission (if not another 250mm)

4x cap rechargers (T2 if poss), 1x 100MN AB

1x Cap power relay, 2x passive energized plates (I use dark blood ones for therm/kin), 2x active plates, 1xLAR2, 1x Damage mod

Sometimes the damage mod is switched for another resist plate.

Alternate loadout

4x250mm 2x heavy NOS
3xcap rechargers (T2 if poss), 1x 100MN AB, 1x webber/painter/ECM....
1x Cap power relay, 2x passive energized plates (I use dark blood ones for therm/kin), 2x active plates, 1xLAR2, 1x Damage mod

Doesnt tank quite as well unless you can get the NOS on something as its much worse for cap (20% less recharge). It is possible to get three havy NOS on but it gets very tight for power. I sometimes use 2 LAR2s for tough missions but that needs a lot of cap.

most of the damage comes from drones - I usually carry 5 sentries, 5+ heavies, 5+ mediums, 5 T2 mediums and some repair drones.

For BS it seems cap rechargers are better than cap bats.

I wouldnt try to tank a extraveganza on my own but it easily completes slavers, duo or death, assault, serpentis spies etc. without much trouble. For drone missions take off a couple of guns and add 2 large EM smartbombs (lo sec only or you'll get concorded), wipes out the annoying little drones very quick - just make sure yours are out of range or in the hold.


The setup I was looking at is (with my skills and assuming only generic market items)

2 250 rails
2 350 rails
1 heavy nos
1 med nos

4 cap rech
1 100MN AB

3 power relay
2 large armour rep
2 rat specific hardeners



It has 7% less resists than your setup but just running as a tank it can run both reps, both hard and both nos for nearly 10 minutes.

Add in the guns and it can go for 3 minutes non-stop.

Add in the guns and AB and it lasts for 93 seconds.

And 1200 armour rep (without any skill bonuses and using base items) every 12 seconds is a tough tank to crack.

If you turn off one of the armour reps it can run everything else forever.

Again, this is assuming only the worst market items are loaded, named stuff only makes it better.

And naturally The setup requires drones for most of the damage, but thats what domis are for.

Beta1
03-08-2006, 14:37:52
nice. I might give it a go for the L4s where you need the extra repper.

It wiull struggle on the angel missions though where you need the option of at least three low slots for resist plates.

How long can it run wothout the NOS? with that much cap recharge it might be more effective all guns.

HelloKitty
03-08-2006, 14:55:05
Taking off both NOS it will run the two hardeners and 2 reppers for 150 seconds.

adding 1 250 and one 350 to replace the 2 nos it will run 1 repper, 2 hard, and 6 guns forever.


Or it will run 1 repper, 2 hard, 6 guns, and the AB for 146 seconds


If you only take off the med nos it will run 2 reppers, 1 large nos, and 2 hard for 250 seconds.

Or one repp, 2 hard, large nos, 5 guns , and the AB forever

Beta1
03-08-2006, 15:16:50
forgot to ask - are those figures taking account skills?

If not add in the effect of the cap recharge modifying skills and I bet the three cap relays become overkill

Other thing is your three cap relays totally nerf your shield recharge rate.

HelloKitty
03-08-2006, 15:49:21
Yeah those include my cap skills. All of them are lvl 3 or 4. If I took them all to 5 you could probably drop one with only losing a couple minutes off the time.

You can switch one out but I was really lookign to see how much of a tank could be made.

Doing lvl 4 missions with 2 or 3 people this setup could tank for a LONG time if someone else was set up for DPS.

Centara Fugue
03-08-2006, 15:53:53
Originally posted by Beta1
Other thing is your three cap relays totally nerf your shield recharge rate.

I recall from armor tanking that I didn't care at all what happened to my shield. It was a nice little bit of extra padding before I fired up the repper, but that was all. All the added resists are on the armor, so the shield isn't going to help much, anyway, but running the reppers forever will.

Beta1
03-08-2006, 15:55:30
on multipart missions getting your shield back is a bonus, but I agree its not vital.

Centara Fugue
09-08-2006, 17:49:02
loot ship (Exequror set up to gather loot quickly)

highs

4x Small Tractor Beam I

mids

2x Medium Capacitor Battery II
1x 10MN Afterburner I (or II)
1x 10MN Microwarpdrive I (or II)

lows

3x Nanofiber Internal Structure I

I use the afterburner only on deadspace missions that aren't yet completed (but which are running long enough to warrant making a loot run before the cans go away), or for collecting cans that are just beyond the 20 km tractor range. I generally burst the microwarpdrive when I'm towing cans to get quickly to one further away, or turn it on full bore if i'm not towing cans. This ship also is a good way to travel between agents and do the occasional courier storyline mission.

Even without cargo expanders, the cruiser skill bonus on this one gives an extra 10% per level to cargo, so with Gallente Cruiser to 4, I have 840 m3 of cargo before expanders, plenty for all level 3s and many (most?) level 4s.

Lurker the Second
09-08-2006, 20:40:49
Your cargo be bigger dan my cargo and I have cruiser 4 also. :(

Centara Fugue
09-08-2006, 21:34:23
Really? What's the difference? I know overdrive injectors reduce cargo space, for one possible difference.

JM^3
12-09-2006, 03:35:57
So I am dreaming about The Hardman Specs.. for what I can fly in 3 months (or whatever).

One idea is this Crusader Setup:
4x Dual Light Pulse II

1x 1MN MWD II
1x Warp Scrambler II

3x Partial Hull Conversion Nanofibers
1x Heat Sink II

Now this is pure gank, and relies upon its speed for damage mitigation. (speed = 3956 m/s)

Another problem with this is that it only has Cap to run everything for 50 seconds.. which isn't enough time to kill anything but a T1 frigate.

A more reasonable setup might be:

4x Dual Light Pulse II

1x 1MN MWD II
1x Fleeting Progressive Warp Scramber

1x Partial Hull Conversion Nanofibers
1x Damage Control II
2x Capacitor Power Relay II

While this has more damage resistance.. it only has a speed of 3716 m/s, and doesn't have as much damage. On the plus side, it won't run out of capacitor (as long as not nosed). Of course, the low slot items are all *very* expensive.

JM

JM^3
12-09-2006, 03:37:45
Of course, I can just forget about Interceptors.. and go for BS as fast as possible.

Not sure which way to go...

JM
(this isn't a mission running Character)

Havoc
12-09-2006, 04:18:06
I guess these ships could work in the right situation. Like if the ship your ganking has medium or large guns equipped. If he sees you coming and has smalls equipped and you have no tank, I think he could tear right through an inty. I myself would probably substitute the speed for the resist and go with an AF. But in any case, the t2 frigates are only good solo in very specific cases, and if you don't know what your enemy has equipped, you don't know if its going to be one of those cases.

I think you'll do a lot more damage than you expect if you're using t2 guns and t2 ammo.

JM^3
12-09-2006, 05:10:38
Yeah, I think I am over the missile threshold... but against a webbing ship.. or maybe even just small guns it would suck.

Inties are suppose to be great skirmish ships.. but it is because if you don't like the looks of the skirmish.. you can generally get away.

Jon Miller

Beta1
12-09-2006, 06:13:17
as for the cap - dont run you're AB once your in close and orbitting. It increases your sig radius by 500% or so and means you are easier to hit. MWD in close then orbitting at 500m at 400m/s should do you fine. (And you'll have lots more cap)

Just watch out for smartbombs...

Snotty
12-09-2006, 06:55:55
whats your optimal orbit range? ive built my cal inty t stay at 20km so there no chance of the web of death, unless somene is going faster than me (not hard as i have cap/shield/power mods in the lows to make it all work

thos partial hull nanofibers are a bit expensive arent they? :)

to squeeze some more speed out there is a 3% velocity modifier not attirbute based chip out there. costs a couple of mil

Snotty
12-09-2006, 07:12:12
also max velocity does not = orbital velocity. I have 3.2km/s and I can just touch 3k when im orbitting at 20km, its half that speed at blaster range

JM^3
12-09-2006, 07:13:52
AB doesn't increase your sig radius, MWD does.

Also, if you look at speed.. if you go at 3500 or something compared to the missile, you have 99.X% damage reduction (or something like that). On the other hand, if you have a sig radius of 20, you have 87% damage reduction added to 0% damage reduction...

So speed is a lot better.

JM

Havoc
12-09-2006, 14:34:22
Yeah if the missile is coming at you in a straight line from behind then yes that is true (high damage mitigation at high speed). If its coming normal to your trajectory, you're screwed.

Centara Fugue
12-09-2006, 16:53:56
I don't know if it always works this way, but usually when I see missiles slam into something in EVE, they go out to a point near the target, seem to pause, then accelerate rapidly toward it. If that is how missiles work in general, then I suspect they will usually hit him in the butt. I think missiles in EVE don't predict target motion all that well.

On a different note, can your own guns track if you're moving that fast relative to your target? I suspect not, but I'm not sure. Perhaps you've already run the numbers.

Centara Fugue
12-09-2006, 17:00:17
Actually I don't know if they missiles actually "pause" as I said, or if that's just how it appears from my point of view. I think they actually just have a limited turning radius, so they scream full bore straight at the target's current location, which gets updated with each server tick, turning as well as they can toward the new position. With a fast target, that would mean they do an asymptotic approach to the final location, usually hitting it in the butt.

Beta1
12-09-2006, 18:20:56
I have a feeling that the weird flight path is sut what you see in the client and that the server calculates it differently.

small blasters can track pretty much anything at any range/speed that you can fly at - but obviously have very limited range. The 500m orbit is what I set my enyo at - it rarely achieves that tight an orbit, it usually bounces around between 750 and 1km but it gets the desired effect - I'm within the ludicrously short range of antimatter blasters and I'm very hard to hit.

Havoc
12-09-2006, 19:39:29
I don't think that is correct Centara, I'm pretty sure my cruise missiles hit frigates much harder when they are normal to my missiles flight path. It's not as if they asymptote because there is finite distance. Asymptote assumes the frigate is infinitely far away when the missile is fired, which isn't true. The missile actually intersects the frigate which is not an asymptote. So the missiles do not always hit in the butt. I'm certain that missiles do not always hit in the butt (from experience).

Edit: This of course assumes that the missile is faster than the frigate.

Edit: If missiles always hit in the butt, the explosion velocity would have to be faster than the frigate velocity to do any damage at all.

JM^3
12-09-2006, 20:48:57
Yeah, I think that it only hits in the butt if you are far enough out..

JM

Centara Fugue
12-09-2006, 21:04:33
Ah, there you guys go getting all technically correct with my terms. I really just meant that it seems to me that the missiles approach the final collision at a decreasing rate, i.e. they begin flight at some angle to the target's velocity, thus gaining on it quickly, but approach more slowly as the velocity vector of the missile comes in line with the velocity vector of the target. It wasn't a correct usage of the term "asymptote" and I beg forgiveness of the mathematically more inclined. :D

What Jon said about it hitting in the butt only if you are far enough out would probably go along with what I've had most viewing experience with, shooting from far away. It isn't that I've mostly shot from far away, but I don't necessarily watch the missiles fly if I'm in close quarters, whereas if I'm far out I often do. I bet you are correct, Havoc, and the ones I shoot off when the target is close just come out and slam the target right away.

Havoc, what you said about missiles always hitting in the butt, and the explosion velocity having to be faster than the frigate velocity to do any damage at all, I totally agree with, and I think in all the cases I've had experience with the explosion velocity is greater than the target velocity.

Centara Fugue
12-09-2006, 21:05:40
How well do drones track and hit interceptors?

EDIT: Really, my question is how good at ganking will you be in an interceptor? Seems like you might be ok as long as you carefully choose your target, but maybe it just sucks and you should use a different ship. My question about drones is really "How well can any random person kill you, regardless of what equipment they're packing, as long as they have some drones?"

EDIT 2: If you only target people in tech1 frigates, you can beat them. Who else can you beat? I guess you can kill cruisers too, but I'm not confident you always can.

Havoc
12-09-2006, 22:23:41
Sorry to be such a nitpick I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

Edit: All this talking of getting hit in the butt is making me horny.

Edit: I think the skill Target Navigation Prediction results in fewer butt slaps... i mean hits.

Havoc
13-09-2006, 05:13:53
Here are two questions: When you launch a missile it must pick a particular point on the frigate so that it can determine how to manuever to get to that point on the frigate. The first question is, what is that point? The butt is the least damaging point to aim for, the nose is the most damaging place to aim for, and there are all the points in between. The second question is, does the missile explode only when it gets to that point, or does it explode when it reaches some defined vecinity around that point.

I have no idea about the first question.
I would think, although I have no proof, that the answer to the second question is that the missile explodes when it gets into proximity of the point its aiming for on the frigate.

To clarify what I said earlier I've noticed that when I fire cruise missiles at frigates that I mostly do low damage (butt hits or close to butt hits), but every once and a while I do a ton of damage with the same damage type and still while the frigate is in shield. (The frigates have also fallen into a regular orbit around me at this point). Since there are no crits in this game, it has to be that if the missile is timed correctly it can effectively negate the fact that the frigate is moving, which I don't think is possible if you always hit it in the butt.

JM^3
13-09-2006, 05:59:49
You don't always hit it on the butt (according to forums.. my constant and sometimes faulty source of information)

You can time attacks and the like, as well as hits of your MWD and vector changes, to decrease the damage you get from attacks, or to increase the damage you give.

I have really been stressing on work this week, but things stopped working this evening, so I have been reading for the last few hours (relaxing).

JM

Maliona
25-09-2006, 17:44:17
As it looks some really competent people regarding ship setups are clustered here together, I would like to post my ship and get some opinions about it.

I can't use something fancy, like T2 ships or T2 modules (for lack of either ISK and skills :) ), so I have to stick with basic options yet.

For level 1 missions I use the following setup:

Ship: Catalyst (Gallente Destroyer)

Modules:

Hi-Power:

3x Railgun I
2x 125 Compressed Coil Gun I
1x 75mm Carbide Railgun I
1x 75mm Compressed Coil Gun I
1x 75mm 'Scout' I Accelerator Cannon

Med-Slots:

Named Capacitor Battery
Small Capacitor Booster I

Low-Slots:

2x Triple-Sheathed Platings (atm Thermic and Magnetic, as I normally fight Serpentis)
1 named armor regenerator

I shoot with a mixture of Thorium (150mm), Iridium (125mm) and Iron (75mm) charges to compensate the differences in range, so every gun has an optimal range between 14 and 17km.

This works like a breeze for level 1 missions, although I know its slow as hell.

But level 2 missions are simply not doable in this setup. The damage is too high, the regen to slow and I'm blasted into pieces faster than I can say "Autopilot".

I tried something different with a friend of mine, we tried to frigates which are attuned to each other with the modules.

So I took an Incursus, with

2x 125mm Railguns and a named NOS in the high slots
Named capacitor battery in the med slot and
1 Adaptive Resistance Plating and a named armour repairer in the lowslots.

I would orbit the target at 5km, using Antimatter Charges, drain his capacitor and lay extreme damage on him.

My friend had a Minmatar Frigate with a Webber, a Target Disruptor and Rocket Launchers as well as afterburners, and we could easily take out 75k Serpentis in 0.4 systems without getting damage. But missions are impossible with this setup, too.

Perhaps someone has some suggestions what I could fly and with which modules to make Level II missions doable, and in what direction I should take up my skills. Should I aim towards cruisers, or more towards a T2 frigate?

Best thanks in advance,
Maliona

Beta1
25-09-2006, 18:28:49
for L2 mission either will work. Some L2s are doable in a well setup frigate (I can do a fair number in a tristan), a destroyer is OK but takes a lot more damage. Infact of the two I would take the tristan over the catalyst - the smalelr size means you get hit a lot less.

For the fastest training to a ship that will take L2s go for cruisers. You only need frig 4 whereas you need frig 5 and some other skills to L5 to get the assault frigate (which will absolutely massacre L2 opposition).

Also AFs only really come into their own with good named/T2 mods and that need more skills.

The best combat/training time ship you can get to quickly is the celestis. Its multiple mids slots mean it shield tanks well (yes I know its gal and should be armored but it has 5 mids slots ffs). Two assault launchers and 2 150mm rails will wipe out most frigates very easily and give you a good chance against most cruisers.

Beyond that the thorax is very deadly but ideally needs a MWD and blaster setup which is not ideal for missions. You can load it up with rails for missions and it will get the job done.

The Vexor is, in my opinion, one of the most underated cruisers. It doesnt have the dps of the thorax at short range but if you have good drone skills (drones 5 and interfacing 4) its drone damage bonus means it can eat Battlecruisers alive at range. Against cruisers its drones have the same damage output as a dominix (with equivelent skill level). Think of it as a mini-dominix (drones and NOS, or drones and rails loadout) and you cant go too far wrong.

Dont bother with the exequeror (or what ever its called). Its more a armored transport than a combat cruiser.

Really for L2 missions the load out wont make that much difference on a cruiser, as long as it has a medium repper/shield booster and a decent armor plate/sheild extender you should be fine. If you want to run T1 frigates on L2s then loadout becomes more important.

Maliona
25-09-2006, 18:57:30
OK, thanks for the advice, the Celestis really looks good, and I think I will optimize my training to head for this one.

The Vexor looks nice, but as I only have Drones 3, it don't seem to be the right choice for now, although I think heavy drone based operations are kinda sexy, and I will surely will follow the road further on in this direction :)

But meanwhile I will try to do these in a Tristan and learning the skills for these (Missile Launcher Operation is still missing in my repertoire, so this will be first ;) ), as it will obviously aid in the operation of a cruiser.

Do you have any suggestions with what to setup a Tristan to have a chance? At least a direction in what to look would be very helpful :)

Thanks again,
Maliona

Beta1
25-09-2006, 19:14:38
guns - twin missile launchers, twin rails (75s or 125s)

Mediums - some sort of cap upgrade, AB and Web

lows plate, repper and whatever you like in the last low. PDU might be good although energized adaptive nano plate would also work. Depends on what you have the skills for.

Maliona
25-09-2006, 19:28:07
I might sound like a newbie (that's exactly what I am ;) ), but what is a PDU?

And what kind of plates in the low? More armor, or resistance platings?

Edit: After some research I think you mean a Power Diagnostics System ;)

Snotty
25-09-2006, 20:50:15
yeah Power Diagnostic Systems are great because they give many bonus and stack without penalty

I fly caldari, so I cant give you specific advice about Gal ships

I think the normal path for getting new ships is frigate -> destroyer -> cruiser -> battle cruiser -> battleship -> tech 2

Mostly because the tech 2 ships are expensive and you cant insure them properly. If you can earn the cash for a BS with cruisers and battlecruisers then you can do lvl 3 missions with you eyes closed in a bs

when you get to lvl 3 missions you can use eve info to find out what damage types the rats are going to be doing on the mission. I shield tank and i find a mix of shield booster, a few shield hardeners and PDS work pretty well. Its mostly about the high resistances it seems

Oh, and welcome aboard

Skanky Burns
26-09-2006, 00:06:59
With armour plating, you can tank damage for a few seconds more. With resists, you can tank for much much longer. You receive less damage so do not need to convert as much cap to armour via a repper. Plus less damage is always good in its own right.

I think Eveinfo has information on lower-level missions too now, although I can't check atm. They want me to work while I am at work, apparently.

Beta1
26-09-2006, 06:14:28
yeah but in a frig you dont generally have the slots to get your resists up on more than one stat and you dont really have the cap to run actives. One nano resist isnt going to give you that much extra survivability.

Skanky Burns
26-09-2006, 07:07:57
He's talking about destroyers and above.

JM^3
26-09-2006, 07:13:06
I think it is as spendy to fly an AF as to fly a BS (maybe more spendy to fly the BS)..

But the BS has an easy time on level 3s, and can possible do level 4s, while an AF has an easy time on level 2s and can possibly do level 3s.

JM

Lurker
26-09-2006, 13:30:14
The key to flying AFs well, imo, is getting the armor compensation skills to 4.

Maliona, the biggest drawback to using a Celestis is that you'll be tempted to sidetrack your armor tank skill training, which I don't recommend if you're gonna fly Gallente battleships eventually.

The key to mission running is tanking, and those skills should be your priority. You need zero shield skills to fly a Domi or Megathron -- so focus on the armor tank skills.

mr_G
26-09-2006, 14:28:01
post in the "normal"forum you geek

Maliona
26-09-2006, 14:38:26
As a coincidence, I have already more shield tanking skills than armour tanking skills, because I wanted to shield tank in the beginning, until some people in the Help channel conviced me that a Gallente ship is better with armour tanking ;)

But my skills are altogether not this high, so atm it doesn't matter what I fly, I think.

I fitted a Tristan yesterday, and it works fine for L1 missions, and they are a lot of faster to complete due to the higher speed while looting and flying between gates and posts ;) I haven't tried L2's yet, as I had an outrageously expensive Reactor Control Unit fitted, as I couldn't fit the cheaper ones ;) And I didn't want to loose this expensive piece of hardware by just trying something which is prone to fail.

But there is no chance I get to fit a webbifier into the Tristan with my current skills, the setup lacks around 16 tf in CPU power. But, alas, as I get the skills for propulsion jamming just today, it's not that bad. And perhaps with a better Engineering skill, the Webbifier will fit :)

Thanks all for your help again, and thanks for the warm welcome :)

Maliona

Lurker
26-09-2006, 15:36:38
Be sure to join the Counterglow chat channel in-game. Password is gaytwat I think (mostly because that's what the person is who set up the channel). Someone correct me if I forgot the password. Dunno where you're from, but we have about an equal number of Brits and east coast U.S. players who log into the channel, usually 3 or 4 will be on during prime playing times for each time zone, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Beta1
26-09-2006, 17:16:34
think the password has been turned off now but would have to check that with Nav.

Centara Fugue
26-09-2006, 20:18:15
Just for what it's worth, I flew a Vexor with crap drone skills and did level 2 missions that way till I could afford to get a battlecruiser. I had drone skills, just not good ones; I think I had drones to 3 or 4 and 0 interfacing. I flew it like a gunship, blatantly ignoring the fact that it has a drone bonus. I mainly flew it instead of a Thorax because I couldn't afford a Thorax at the time. The Vexor is tougher than the Celestis, and you can be training your armor tanking skills while you fly it, as well as your drone skills, which you'll also want anyway, regardless of what you fly (with a few exceptions, notably some Caldari ships).

Hmmm, well, I just had a look at the Celestis vs the Vexor, and they're both pretty good. The difference in armor isn't as much as I thought, and they both have the same base amount of shield. The Vexor gets a drone damage bonus, while the Celestis has two launchers in place of one of the Vexor's gun slots. The bonus to medium hybrid turret damage is the same on both ships, but for most level 2 missions, you're better off using small guns instead of medium anyway, since most of your targets are small. There are a few level 2 missions for which medium guns work better, I think, but not many. Anyway, looking at it, I think you can't go wrong with either ship. If you want to start training to fly Caldari ships instead of Gallente, the fact that you can use shield tanking techniques and launchers on the Celestis makes it a good choice for training the skills you'll want for those ships.

Skanky Burns
26-09-2006, 20:42:02
The chatroom password is off.

Beta1
26-09-2006, 21:31:07
I would like to see more stuff that you could do in a cruiser. L2s are Ok but once you get the cash for a BC theres no point in flying a cruiser.

Even from a pvp perspective if your on your own then flying a cruiser is going to get you killed by anything larger than you. most solo pirates seem to fly BS so you need the same to compete.

The only thing left for cruisers is L3/10 complexes and theres never enough of them to run and the pay is pretty poor.

I guess HACs are kind of the answer but I dont think hteres enough variety in their deisgns and the cost is ridiculous.

Beta1
12-10-2006, 21:35:32
just thought i would bump this thread to sing the praises of energized adaptive membrane 2s.

finally completed hull upgrades V and so can equip EAN2s. Makes a big difference - with most of the armor compensation skills to level 4 three EAN2s give me a tank of 77/53/66/66. Havnt tried it on my domi yet but with three active mods running on top of that I should be looking at something around 77/71/80/80. Thats a pretty good set of resists for any L4 mission enemy.

with a bit more playing it seems the theird EAN2 only gains me about 1.5% to each resist in the final calculation - that means I can drop one and have better resists than my 3 EAN 1 loadout + have a spare low slot. Very nice - a damage control in there should push me over 80% resists or a damage mod or even a plate for extra survivability

Skanky Burns
13-10-2006, 00:06:01
What is the price-tag on them?

I'm still trying to buy cap recharger IIs and a large repper II, open orders take too long to fill.

Koyaanisqatsi
13-10-2006, 00:23:22
They were going for 7.5 in sinq today

Skanky Burns
13-10-2006, 02:32:56
:hmmm:

Thats pretty cheap. Top of the line passive resists go for 15m each.

Beta1
13-10-2006, 06:07:40
Originally posted by Skanky Burns
What is the price-tag on them?

I'm still trying to buy cap recharger IIs and a large repper II, open orders take too long to fill.

you might be better of getting eutectics from the naga shop.

cap recharger 2s cost an arm and a leg and are only 2% better than top of the line named.

Skanky Burns
13-10-2006, 08:41:25
I'm paying 18mil for them, and have been sold 2 so far at that price. 3 times the price of Eutectics.

Beta1
13-10-2006, 18:06:36
sounds about right I think I paid about 20mill for the three I got blown up

Beta1
15-10-2006, 18:05:18
a use for the exequeror - courtesy of goewyn

hi slots - 4x tractor beams
meds - 10MWD, whatever else you like (I use shield extender and cap boosting stuff)
low slots - 3x expanded cargo holds

best ship for clearing up the loot after L4 missions. Will hold 1300+ m3 of loot, can tractor four cans at once and is way faster than a indy.

Koyaanisqatsi
14-11-2006, 22:06:36
Ok, so, about time for level 4s...maybe...

This is what I've been using for 3s:

Domi

2x 250 compressed coils
3x 150 prototype gauss gun
1x Drone link augmentor

1x LiF AB
1x X5 webber
1x F-90 Positional sensor subroutines
2x eutectic cap chargers

1x LAR II
2x Cap power relay I
2x Energized Membrane II
2x Radioisotope Hardener I

5x Bouncers, 5x Gardes, 10x type-specific Med IIs, 5x Warrior IIs

Any suggestions on what I need to do to go to level 4 missions? Relevent skills are below.

http://www.umit.maine.edu/~greatoz/naq-skills.gif

Beta1
14-11-2006, 22:26:47
dump the 150s, the T2 meds will eat any frigate you meet. Also lose the webber - your drones wont need them to kill frigs, esp if you take T2 lights as well. Stick more 250mm in the highs or blasters and NOS. Works very well on pirate invasion missions agasint the angels with their high speed BS. You cant out run them and they will try and close to <8K So you might as well pack the blasters and out gun them. a couple (or three) large smartbombs do wonders on drone missions and ones with lots of frigs

I fill my med-slots with cap rechargers and an AB 2 then have all my lows for armor tanking. Am now setup using 2 EAN 2s, a couple of actives if needed, a LAR 2 and a DC if I can fit one

Handles the routine L4s without breaking a sweat.

JM^3
15-11-2006, 00:30:16
My characters (btw, that is a handy screen.. where is it from?)

http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=217229058

http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=776790029

JM

JM^3
15-11-2006, 00:32:39
I am also looking to do Lvl 4 missions, but I aim to use a Minmatar BS. Either a Tempest or a Typhoon.. not sure yet.

JM

Koyaanisqatsi
15-11-2006, 00:46:50
Originally posted by JM^3
(btw, that is a handy screen.. where is it from?)
It's just copy/pasted screenshots from Evemon. I tried uploading to the site your characters are on, actually, but it didn't like my xml file for some reason.

Skanky Burns
15-11-2006, 01:42:42
I don't like your xml file, either.

I'm thinking of trying out some drone control modules. I've got 4 150mm scouts, a med NOS and a tractor, so it isn't like my high slots are important right now.

JM^3
17-11-2006, 03:17:54
Here is my current idea for a Typhoon:
4x Seige Missile Launchers
2x Heavy Nos
2x Large Smartbombs

1x 100MN AB
1x Target Painter
2x Cap Recharger

1x LAR 1
2x EANM 2
2x Adaptive Nano Plating 2
1x DC 1
1x Armor Explosive Hardener 2

I probably should get AWU up 2 levels before I outfit it. This would provide:
Armor HP = 5468.75
Resists = 86/81/65/70
Cap(regen) = 5000(566 /sec)
Max V = 354 m/s

Now I know, I should possibly downgrade to medium Nos, and upgrade my LAR and possible put on plate instead of the Adaptive Nano Plating.

JM

JM^3
17-11-2006, 03:27:11
Originally posted by Beta1
I would like to see more stuff that you could do in a cruiser. L2s are Ok but once you get the cash for a BC theres no point in flying a cruiser.

Even from a pvp perspective if your on your own then flying a cruiser is going to get you killed by anything larger than you. most solo pirates seem to fly BS so you need the same to compete.

The only thing left for cruisers is L3/10 complexes and theres never enough of them to run and the pay is pretty poor.

I guess HACs are kind of the answer but I dont think hteres enough variety in their deisgns and the cost is ridiculous.

I know that this reply is coming a bit late.. but I beleive that a Cruiser gang in PvP has quite a bit of bite, isn't too expensive to lose, and is very successful against a broad range of targets.

JM

Koyaanisqatsi
18-11-2006, 02:38:37
Hm. I think I'm still lacking firepower...I tried a 4 tonight and got through it, but it took me 5, 7, and 7 minutes to pop each of three battleships (sansha overload, beast load, and slaver.)

2x 250mm compressed coils
3x E500 Heavy Nos
1x drone link augmentor
--
1x F-90 Positional sensor subroutines
4x eutectic cap chargers
--
1x LAR II
1x MAR II (couldn't fit a second large)
1x Cap power relay I
1x Energized Thermic Membrane II
1x EANM II
2x Radioisotope Hardener I (EM & Therm)
--
5x T2 Med
5x Bouncers

Obviously I know I could swap out the Nos for more guns, but the rails didn't seem to be doing much anyway and I don't think my tank will hold for long if I don't have the cap coming in. Guess I'll see what happens when I get large hybrids...

edit: though I didn't really test my tank in this mission, since I just set a bookmark and came back in at 100km. Everything but the battleships were gone before I was through my shields. I had 80%+ resists and three battleships didn't force me to turn on the reppers constantly, but I don't know how much more than those three I could have taken.

JM^3
18-11-2006, 02:44:02
yeah, I am worried about firepower because I can't use T2 drones yet

JM

Beta1
18-11-2006, 08:39:52
try 350mm rails and heavy drones (cant remember which type) for the BS