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paiktis22
23-05-2006, 18:05:33
i'm that bored.

let's see

from bbc
Greek and Turkish planes collide

Greek and Turkish F-16 fighter jets have crashed into the southern Aegean Sea after colliding in mid-air.
The Greek pilot was killed, while the Turkish pilot was rescued after ejecting safely, Turkish officials say.

*true

The collision, near Karpathos island, occurred after Greece scrambled a jet to intercept the Turkish aircraft, a Greek spokesman said.
*true

Despite a thaw in recent years, the two neighbours have a long-standing territorial dispute over the Aegean.

Turkey insists Greek airspace extends only 10km (6 miles) offshore, not 16km (10 miles) as Greece maintains.

In the past, the two have come close to armed conflict over the dispute.
*true

The two foreign ministers expressed their regret for today's incident

Greek foreign ministry

The incident occurred at about 27,000 ft (8,000 m), some 21 miles (34 km) southeast of Karpathos.

Greek government spokesman Evangelos Antonaros said the planes had gone down after touching wing tips.

"It was likely an interception operation," he said.

The BBC's Richard Galpin in Athens says interception attempts happen frequently, with the two sides shadowing each other and even staging mock dog fights in their disputed air space.

Explosion

Nato has previously warned the two member states that these are dangerous.

The collision spotted by passengers on board a plane travelling to Cairo, according to eyewitnesses quoted on Greek television.
*true

The Turkish pilot survived and was repatriated by helicopter
They reportedly saw an explosion in the sky.
*not so simple.

he was recovered by a ship with panama flag belonging to japanese interests. a greek super puma went to pick him up (as greece maintains this is in its zone of search and rescue) but he refused and waited for a turkish chopper to come.


The Turkish pilot was picked up by a passing merchant ship, Turkish officials said.

He was later flown home by an army helicopter. But the officials said the Greek pilot had died in the collision.

This has not been confirmed by the Greek government. However officials in Athens told the BBC they believe the pilot did not eject - and therefore may have died.

A search and rescue operation will continue for 72 hours, they said.

Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul conveyed his country's condolences to his Greek counterpart Dora Bakoyanni in a telephone conversation, the foreign ministry in Ankara said.

"The two foreign ministers expressed their regret at today's incident and agreed that this should not affect the two countries' efforts to improve their relations," a Greek foreign ministry statement said.

*true



i have to wonder what the greek PM is thinking. you have an incident of intercept and force away as these incidents are called that resulted in the death of a greek pilot. the greek poisition is that turkey is violating air space and it is for this reason greek jetfighters intercept and force away such planes.

then you have a complete give away of search and rescue competence. you let the pilot go away with a turkish chopper even though you have him pinned down (probably threatening you with a gun if you try to save him) but you let the turks come and get him.

So you have (according to your own policy)
1) violation of air space
2) death of greek pilot as a result of intercept and force away
3) surrendering of search and rescue rights

and what do you reply?

we are very sorry along with my sweetie apple pioe turkish little collegue all of this happened. aw so sorry.
I think the PM has lost all contact with greek reality.
bah

paiktis22
23-05-2006, 18:08:41
and this is an insult to the family of the pilot.

YOU sent him there to intercept and force away and he gave his life doing this.

and you reply...
oh me and my turkie buddy are so sowwy

if this is not a contradiction of the highest order and a dire insult i dont know what is

Koyaanisqatsi
23-05-2006, 18:11:32
I don't know any German songs--can somebody give me a hand here?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-05-2006, 18:21:14
Bier her, Bier her, oder i fall um....

Lazarus and the Gimp
23-05-2006, 18:23:42
Would you want your tax money going on getting the Turk repatriated?

paiktis22
23-05-2006, 18:27:04
the alternative is for the greek side to going towards admiting that both countries have equal rights of search and rescue in the aegean, something which it does not accept. otherwise spare the F16s fom going and intercepting at all.

MOBIUS
23-05-2006, 18:41:54
Originally posted by paiktis22
The collision, near Karpathos island, occurred after Greece scrambled a jet to intercept the Turkish aircraft, a Greek spokesman said.

I do not know what the problem is - he intercepted the plane pretty good!

paiktis22
23-05-2006, 18:47:41
pathetic comment. expected no less from you.

Cruddy
23-05-2006, 19:05:30
Daft question - 2 Nato countries patrolling same air space?

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

Imposing combat jet no-fly zone would have been much more sensible.

paiktis22
23-05-2006, 19:11:00
There have been incidents resulting in deaths before. planes crashing down etc. when you have dozens of dog fights on a weekly basis, these things happen. it is a miracle they dont happen much more actually. the tragedy in my view is the greek gov. inconsistency and stolidity. it is bordering the ridiculous. and it didn't come out of thin air. there was tention in the aegean with the ship poseidon conducting seismic searches in water territory the turks wanted to control (but under international law belong to greece). and some days later, air colision. call me prejudiced but i doubt this was an accident.

Venom
23-05-2006, 19:19:51
Well, the Turks are cock biters. And they're hairy too. 2 strikes and they're out.

MOBIUS
23-05-2006, 19:34:38
Originally posted by paiktis22
pathetic comment. expected no less from you.

Could have been worse. Could have said something about flying too close to the sun and stuff like that...:cute:

Asher
23-05-2006, 19:45:41
They're both hilarious third-world countries. Everybody point and laugh.

Asher
23-05-2006, 19:46:10
Can't even fly a plane properly.

MOBIUS
23-05-2006, 19:57:32
Yeah, the reason those plane-spotters had such a hard time was the Greeks were scared the secret would get out about the cowboy nature of their airforce...

Chris
23-05-2006, 21:04:21
Originally posted by paiktis22
and this is an insult to the family of the pilot.

YOU sent him there to intercept and force away and he gave his life doing this.

and you reply...
oh me and my turkie buddy are so sowwy

if this is not a contradiction of the highest order and a dire insult i dont know what is Another stellar moment for the valient Greek military.

Leonidas would be so proud. :rolleyes:

Funko
24-05-2006, 08:02:03
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Yeah, the reason those plane-spotters had such a hard time was the Greeks were scared the secret would get out about the cowboy nature of their airforce...

I think I mentioned this before, but at the time of that one of my housemates was a freelance press photographer, he said the buzz in the press pack was that one of those guys really was a spy but they weren't allowed to report it.

Drekkus
24-05-2006, 08:05:05
A british spy taking pictures of nato aircraft??

Funko
24-05-2006, 08:10:53
I know, seems ridiculous.

The coverage of that from our media here was so one sided though. Laugh/be outraged by the silly foriegners and never suggest for a second that the tour group might actually have blatantly taken the piss and broken some rules.

I wonder how we'd react if some Greek tourists started randomly wandering around an RAF base taking pictures of everything.

Drekkus
24-05-2006, 08:20:56
That's good political spin though. :D I always envision spies wandering around enemy offices at night taking pictures with their cigaret pack, but I guess it's much more down to earth then that.

Gary
24-05-2006, 09:00:50
I don't see a problem with the idea that a tragedy changes things for a particular incident. That before it happened the priority was to intercept and force away, and that afterwards the priority was to treat everyone with 'kid gloves' in an effort not to make diplomatic relations worse.

maroule
24-05-2006, 09:44:18
the greeks are very epidermic, while the turks are schizophrenic, and both have a very strong nationalist streak, fueled by a sense of injustice, and lack of self confidence

call me candid but I think it's a pretty good thing the two PM can talk the crisis down instead of indulging in macho posturing, the type of the americans are so proud of ("my army is bigger than yours")

Drekkus
24-05-2006, 09:45:52
Well spoken, Candid.

Funko
24-05-2006, 10:47:48
Originally posted by maroule
call me candid but I think it's a pretty good thing the two PM can talk the crisis down instead of indulging in macho posturing, the type of the americans are so proud of ("my army is bigger than yours")

Definitely better than a war.

Venom
24-05-2006, 12:24:36
I suppose that's a record, 21 posts in a political thread before someone made a snide comment about America.

Nills Lagerbaak
24-05-2006, 12:27:13
They are the perfect example of macho posturing, so a perfectly valid comment I would say.

maroule
24-05-2006, 12:27:35
it took even less for an american to trumpet the old 'euros are pussies" mantra, but that's no record, it comes normally quicker

Dyl Ulenspiegel
24-05-2006, 13:11:43
B I E R H E R ! ! !

mr_G
24-05-2006, 13:17:18
oder ich fal um, joegij!!

Dyl Ulenspiegel
24-05-2006, 13:21:40
bier her!

Cruddy
24-05-2006, 17:39:16
Originally posted by Asher
They're both hilarious third-world countries. Everybody point and laugh.

Nah. That's reserved solely for spoilt rich kids with their head up their arse.

Asher
24-05-2006, 17:52:59
Or for washed up old men on a high horse?

Vincent
24-05-2006, 18:02:43
I didn't know turkeys are that dangerous!

Asher
24-05-2006, 18:04:28
Greece has firebombed a Turkey airport in retaliation.

Cruddy
24-05-2006, 18:27:40
A Turkish dog turd has more culture than the whole of Toronto.

Cruddy
24-05-2006, 18:29:24
Originally posted by Asher
Or for washed up old men on a high horse?

Oh, not so old. I'll be clipping your wings for a few decades yet, ins'Allah.

Anyway, when I'm really old, I'll still be attractive to those I'd like to fuck.

Unlike you. Fags age badly so get it now Asher, your grey years will be very empty.

Asher
24-05-2006, 18:39:28
Originally posted by Cruddy
A Turkish dog turd has more culture than the whole of Toronto.
Couldn't agree more.

Asher
24-05-2006, 18:40:33
Originally posted by Cruddy
Oh, not so old. I'll be clipping your wings for a few decades yet, ins'Allah.

Anyway, when I'm really old, I'll still be attractive to those I'd like to fuck.

Unlike you. Fags age badly so get it now Asher, your grey years will be very empty.
I've got a SO, thank you very much.

Your out-of-the-blue attacks are a bit funny. I think somebody likes me. :heart:

Cruddy
24-05-2006, 18:55:42
Neither was an attack, just a real life observation.

Asher
24-05-2006, 19:03:34
If you don't think that's an attack, you're as stupid as your posts usually reflect.

paiktis22
24-05-2006, 19:35:45
The quicker the turks realize that the aegean is greek the quicker these things will ceaze. The politicians are stupid though. Bring on the hot incident in the aegean the turks are the only ones who will suffer both militarily wise since theyr'e tragically undergunned in every aspect except number of soldiers but most importantly because they are trying to put on a good european face for europe to see. let's see what happens when they provoke an EU member to war, how will this go down with brussels.
the turkish flight was done to espionage the S-300 antibalistic missiles in crete since this is one of the strongest weapons in greece and it's the only western country which has it. they try to do it every month.
good to see that today there wasn't even one air violation. i doubt the icarus pilots would have let them live after yesterday. fucking little annoying pricks. (turkish military i mean, politicans there have no power anyway).

paiktis22
24-05-2006, 19:45:03
turkish motto: let us join the EU or we'll start a war.

paiktis22
24-05-2006, 19:48:52
plus it's ridiculous to have the aegean as a scapegoat when something's not right internally in turkey, which is more often than not. this period the secularists are in a death embrace with the islamists after the assassination of a turkish judge. let's increase the violations then!
what an asshole country to live next to. the turkish pilot crashed his plane on the cabin of the greek f16 instanmtly killing the icarus pilot. hence no ejection. i dont know if this was intentional or not but it was murder to begin with. the turks will be crazy if they start violations again.

paiktis22
24-05-2006, 20:13:39
having a no military flight zone in the aegean would be surrendering to turkish claims that the greek FIR isnt to be respected and that they's no sovereignity over the aegan. it sounds good as a way to not have tentions but let's see where this leads. if there are no military flights over the aegean, this leaves the frigates submarines and other ships. let's say these are forbitten to enter the sea either. that leaves the coastal guards.
so far so good.
so what happens when a nice turkish or greek company starts drilling the aegean for oil and the other side claims that this territory belongs to it? will it send the costal guard to drive them away? which of the two? and how will they fight? in no time there will be frigates and military jets.
the only solution could be a political one. but neither side wants to back off. so these things will continue endlessly. although the turks only started violating after 1974 (the year cyprus was invaded) and havent stopped since. neither have the incterceptions and force away operations. there can be plenty of steps of good will by both sides but unless the territorial waters and air borders are respected by turkey this will not stop.
greece will never give in to surrendering sovereignity rights, maybe turkey will stop, as it started, claiming them. maybe not.

what pisses me off is that whenever there is a decision concerning their future in the EU they send in the f16s in massive numbers. so you have the two PMs smiling in brussles while the whole aegean is up in flames in the air.
this is NOT european behavior. certaintly doesnt adhere to the peace and goodwill mantra of the european founding fathers to say the least.
our nice PM thinks that he can europeanize turkey and make it act maturily. he thinks that there is no other solution. the turks (and i mean the military since the others are pretty much powerless clowns) should know that playing with fire can lead to very bad results while this process is underway and it is by no means guaranteed nor is it exclusively in the hands of greece.
so the conclusion is once again: what an asshole country to live next to. the feelings are maybe mutual.

Asher
24-05-2006, 21:33:45
The real question is, why did you burn down their airport?

paiktis22
24-05-2006, 21:37:04
btw that's what happens in the aegean in an almost daily basis (that was licked from the defence ministry somehow)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_67QZDwUlZ4

Darkstar
24-05-2006, 21:53:27
Originally posted by maroule
it took even less for an american to trumpet the old 'euros are pussies" mantra, but that's no record, it comes normally quicker

Sounds like BS. Find the post where an *American* said 'Euros are pussies' quicker then the the dig on America in this thread. I've looked three times, and I cannot locate it. Did someone change their nationality and I missed it? Or is there an been a refinement in the ignore system so they don't even appear anymore?

Darkstar
24-05-2006, 21:54:26
Originally posted by Cruddy
Neither was an attack, just a real life observation.

Ash, this is a political thread. It's not an attack when they do it. It's only an attack when *you* do it. Haven't you learned that yet from all your time at Poly?

Cruddy
24-05-2006, 22:01:10
Originally posted by Asher
If you don't think that's an attack, you're as stupid as your posts usually reflect.

OK, here's what I'd class as an attack.

Asher,

Everytime I see one of your posts, my heart soars. Another clueless fuckwitted observation with the dynamic qualities of glue and the social attitudes of a pariah pig.

I just know that every word will make me (and everybody else) laugh themselves stupid, and thankful to the Creator for creating such a clown.

You bring happiness to many with your vacious social posts, your meaningless technical observations, and even when you are on target, it's nothing that a halfwit armed with Google couldn't better.

It fills me with joy to think that you are the sort of person I have to compete against.

Because you coudln't beat a one legged man in an arse kicking contest.



Does that make you happy? Very little of it is actually true, I know that.

Asher
24-05-2006, 22:05:45
You make me very sad. For reasons you do not intend.

Cruddy
24-05-2006, 22:19:48
I'm bemused as to why. In that I was trying to imitate your style of attacking the poster without really studying the content of the posts.

Asher
24-05-2006, 22:22:28
When I attack posters, I've got some reason for doing so -- either a grueling feud or things they've done or said recently. I don't do it randomly.

Chris
24-05-2006, 22:24:21
Ah, so teh Greeks and Turks are still at it, this fued goes back about 1400 years now.

Cruddy
24-05-2006, 22:26:24
So why attack Paiktis? Seemed random to me.

Oh, I get it, I stay out of Poly. That's why it seems random to me.

Asher
24-05-2006, 23:52:28
Where did I attack Paiktis? I was making a fun troll against Greeks, not paiktis in particular. There's a huge difference between personal attacks and obvious trolling.

Asher
25-05-2006, 01:25:40
Originally posted by Cruddy
A Turkish dog turd has more culture than the whole of Toronto.
As a side-note...my Canadian Studies prof just spent a week in Toronto for a conference. He's talking about how strikingly different the two "standards of living" are and how lucky we are in Calgary. ;)

Venom
25-05-2006, 01:47:12
Congrats. You're both idiots.

Asher
25-05-2006, 01:53:27
You wound me, sir.

Venom
25-05-2006, 02:30:17
I can identify my own kind.