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Koshko
14-05-2006, 06:45:26
What the fuck is an ELEVEN year old doing on a drunken night out, and why the fuck is the mom proud that her ELEVEN year old got pregnant?

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=712872006

Koyaanisqatsi
14-05-2006, 07:04:57
I'm still holding out hope that they picked this story up off the Onion.

Beta1
14-05-2006, 08:45:15
My yr7 class were talking about this - the general consensus is that it was the most disgusting thing they had ever heard.

Beta1
14-05-2006, 08:47:04
She said: "I can give up smoking at any time, but I don't find it affects my pregnancy. I also don't drink any more."

always good to see the body of medical science disproved by an 11 year old kid.

mr_G
14-05-2006, 09:35:50
:lol:

Oerdin
14-05-2006, 10:23:48
Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
I'm still holding out hope that they picked this story up off the Onion.

It sure sounds like an onion article.

alsieboo
14-05-2006, 12:36:29
I heard it on radion one the other morning, they had comments from the mother, I really don't see how she can be proud of her. If I got myself pregnant, my mother would go spare! She wouldn't go picking outifts out for the little one, she'd chuck me out and call me a slag

Oerdin
14-05-2006, 20:03:15
And if you did it then you'd deserve it just like this 11 year old who spends her days getting drunk, smoking, and fucking oldr boys.

Cruddy
14-05-2006, 20:16:17
It's not Onion. It's true.

Not the world record though, I think that stands at 9 years old.


The UK as a whole has the second highest teenage birth rate in the developed world, at 32 per 1,000, second only to the United States at 52.

See? US is number one at more than you know.

Koshko
14-05-2006, 20:49:45
Well the USA also has a higher infant mortality rate, so it all evens out in the end.

Gibsie
14-05-2006, 22:38:24
If only someone had taught this girl about abstinence!

Immortal Wombat
14-05-2006, 23:13:34
Originally posted by Cruddy
It's not Onion. It's true.

Not the world record though, I think that stands at 9 years old.
World record for the youngest mother stands at five years seven months (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina).


I can understand a mother being proud that her daughter is taking the responsibility rather than getting an abortion, which was the full quote. I imagine they got the anger done with ages ago, before the papers came calling. What was she supposed to say? My 11 year old whore of a daughter is keeping the baby, so I'm disowning her?

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 00:57:33
Originally posted by Gibsie
If only someone had taught this girl about abstinence!

Well, they tried, but she was too drunk to pay that much attention.

KrazyHorse@home
15-05-2006, 02:59:16
Originally posted by Cruddy
It's not Onion. It's true.

Not the world record though, I think that stands at 9 years old.



See? US is number one at more than you know.

According to this site

http://www.unicef.org/pon96/inbirth.htm

NZ has a slightly higher teenage birth rate than the UK

Greg W
15-05-2006, 03:25:07
Damn, we must teach them too well in Australia. :(

MoSe
15-05-2006, 09:09:34
hhhmmm.... "teenage" birth = 15-19....

for sure a 19 mother is young, but could be an already working, independent and married young woman, something perfectly normal

nothing to be compared or tallied with a 15yo mother imho.
and aren't 13 & 14 yo technically "teens" too???

flawed stats
besides, those figures mean very little, if not compared with the overall fertitly rate for the same country.
Italy for instance only has 9, but for sure is also one of the countries in the world with the lowest overall fertility.

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 09:20:29
yeah as MoSe says, when we hear teen pregnancy we don't tend to think of 19 yr olds who want kids, we think of schoolgirls with unwanted pregnancies

for that reason its interesting that the perceived answer to this problem of teen pregnancies is educating kids about contraception...

but what about the problem (if it is one) of people who intentionally have kids because there is absolutely nothing of interest happening in ther lives or because they think its the only way to keep their relationships together or because they will get a free house and benefit etc.

i'm sure the number of accidental schoolgirl pregnancies is massively dwarfed by the number of intentional teen pregnancies

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 10:49:42
Originally posted by Koshko
[B]What the fuck is an ELEVEN year old doing on a drunken night out, and why the fuck is the mom proud that her ELEVEN year old got pregnant?

....

Well the USA also has a higher infant mortality rate, so it all evens out in the end.




Bullshit. The reason is we (US/UK) set the age of consent higher than other countries, totally ignoring the fact that if girls enter menarch (start bleeding) they get these urges... you know?

I'm no advocate of fucking children (actually I prefer bald old women :P) but the fact is it's just another golf club in the bag of state management.

Which countries also jail the highest percentages of people?

US and UK.

NZ? Population 4 million, a helluva lot of them are Maoris with own cultural tradition (of getting drunk and getting laid).

Just tell your right wing preconceptions to go take a flying fuck. Look the truth in the face for once, please?

Gary
15-05-2006, 11:04:35
:confused:

Funko
15-05-2006, 11:19:23
I think the US is the highest but loads of countries jail more people than the UK

In fact we are only 92nd

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/highest_to_lowest_rates.php


http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/world_brief.html

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2006, 11:33:20
It seems a failure in economic support, child protection and social services rather than a failure in sex education. I mean, any way you look at it eleven-year-olds are not meant to have sex, and the environment where such things happen needs to be changed.

Funko
15-05-2006, 11:34:32
And the parents.

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2006, 11:40:14
Yeah, well, that's a given isn't it? But surely there are types of societies that produce more bad parents than others.

Funko
15-05-2006, 12:00:09
Absolutely.

Sometimes it seems that everyone else except the parents gets the blame though.

MoSe
15-05-2006, 12:06:52
IIRC when I was 11 I'd have given an arm to have sex. Damn, I'd have contented of a french kiss or of just feeling a breast.... :cute:

If I didn't till a few years later, it's not thanks to parental guidance, but because of a mere "natural selection"...

Venom
15-05-2006, 12:08:16
Koshko right wing? Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 12:44:37
Originally posted by Funko
I think the US is the highest but loads of countries jail more people than the UK

In fact we are only 92nd

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/highest_to_lowest_rates.php


http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/world_brief.html

So we live in Burundi then. :confused:

Try is as proportion of population and confine it to Western hemisphere (ie similar economic conditions).

1> USA
2> UK

Growth figures are interesting;-

1992 44,719 (88)
1995 50,692 (99)
1998 65,298 (126)
2001 66,301 (127)
2004 74,657 (141)

So while the numbers are going up, the positions are going down?

I think the statistician should be shot. Not fatally, just enough to convince them it's a good idea to get figures right. Mind you, I think that about all statisticians.

I would say lock 'em up and throw away the key... but I don't think that's going to add weight to my argument. :clueless:

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 12:50:15
Originally posted by Venom
Koshko right wing? Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

OK. Try neo-conservative fucked up "family values" "moral majority" bullshit preconceptions.

Right wing is kinda shorthand, you dig?

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 12:50:59
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
It seems a failure in economic support, child protection and social services rather than a failure in sex education. I mean, any way you look at it eleven-year-olds are not meant to have sex, and the environment where such things happen needs to be changed.

y'see, fundamentally, i can't agree with that. because if someone is biologically ready to have sex (and based on this act turning into a pregnancy it's fairly obvious she was) then the 'meant to' is purely a social/moral debate, and that itself has to be influenced by the biological factors.

as i understand it, in modern western countries, girls (and possible boys) are hitting puberty earlier and earlier. if people are biologically ready for sex they will want to have it, and this kind of thing is clearly going to happen more often. it's all very well to make legislation to make it illegal but i think we are well aware that there is a sizeable body of under 16's in this country who are taking their biological imperatives to fuck more seriously than state legislation on the age of consent.

i really don't see what 'support, child protection and social services' have to do with something like this. explain to me how these bodies can stop people acting on their sexual and other urges.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 12:51:08
Yeah, the UK does incarcerate a hell of a lot of people - it's a problem.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 12:54:26
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
y'see, fundamentally, i can't agree with that. because if someone is biologically ready to have sex (and based on this act turning into a pregnancy it's fairly obvious she was) then the 'meant to' is purely a social/moral debate, and that itself has to be influenced by the biological factors.

as i understand it, in modern western countries, girls (and possible boys) are hitting puberty earlier and earlier. if people are biologically ready for sex they will want to have it, and this kind of thing is clearly going to happen more often. it's all very well to make legislation to make it illegal but i think we are well aware that there is a sizeable body of under 16's in this country who are taking their biological imperatives to fuck more seriously than state legislation on the age of consent.

i really don't see what 'support, child protection and social services' have to do with something like this. explain to me how these bodies can stop people acting on their sexual and other urges.

i agree somewhat, it wasn't until fairly recvently that people were allowed to have sex at a much younger age. Hell it was even considered acceptable for old men to have sex with young girls (John Peel etc.)

Probably can't do much about kids experimenting, but you can educate them about the dangers and legislate against older people exploiting youngsters.

Funko
15-05-2006, 12:55:21
Originally posted by Cruddy
So we live in Burundi then. :confused:

Try is as proportion of population and confine it to Western hemisphere (ie similar economic conditions).

1> USA
2> UK

Growth figures are interesting;-

1992 44,719 (88)
1995 50,692 (99)
1998 65,298 (126)
2001 66,301 (127)
2004 74,657 (141)

So while the numbers are going up, the positions are going down?

I think the statistician should be shot. Not fatally, just enough to convince them it's a good idea to get figures right. Mind you, I think that about all statisticians.

I would say lock 'em up and throw away the key... but I don't think that's going to add weight to my argument. :clueless:

Yes, but they are on over 700 by 100,000 we're on 144, hardly comparable figures.

Spain are 143, we're high for Western Europe is all.

Those two numbers you quoted are the total number of prisoners and the number per 100,000 of the population, not the world position. So both are increasing as you'd expect. Yes it's not a good situation, but you made it sound like we were up there with the US when we have only a fifth of their percentage.

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 12:55:42
so is people comitting crimes

if you don't lock people up what do you do? instant termination?

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 12:57:43
I vote for transportation to Hull as a punishment. Too harsh for today's namby pamby admin.

Venom
15-05-2006, 12:58:01
Originally posted by Cruddy
OK. Try neo-conservative fucked up "family values" "moral majority" bullshit preconceptions.

Right wing is kinda shorthand, you dig?

Yeah, because all liberals are sure to love 11 year old mothers.

Funko
15-05-2006, 12:58:01
China have a very efficient policy of almot immediate executions.

Greg W
15-05-2006, 12:58:24
It's really only recent (aka last 100 or so years) morals that paint teen sex and having babies as a bad thing. Girls used to have babies at age 14 or thereabouts a lot more often in the "old days". Then again, almost everything is different to those days, so it's hard to guage what's right and what's wrong.

Funko
15-05-2006, 12:59:09
I don't understand why anything Koshko said in this thread should cause him to be labeled "right wing".

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 12:59:55
who cares about koshko, let's discuss the issues

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 13:00:25
Originally posted by Venom
Yeah, because all liberals are sure to love 11 year old mothers.

Maybe more constructive that dealing with them as adult delinquents to be punished, sneered at, looked down on and treated like shit.

Funko
15-05-2006, 13:01:30
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
who cares about koshko, let's discuss the issues

It's bloody right wingers like you going around not caring about people that cause this kind of problem in the first place! :mad: :D

Funko
15-05-2006, 13:03:31
Originally posted by Cruddy
Maybe more constructive that dealing with them as adult delinquents to be punished, sneered at, looked down on and treated like shit.

Some people might have said that, Koshko didn't. He just said what pretty much everyone I have talked to about this said at first "wtf is an 11 year old doing going out drinking smoking and having sex"?

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 13:07:17
hey she's doing what 99% of CG losers wish they could, she should be applauded

Funko
15-05-2006, 13:15:21
Go out and do all those things, just don't get pregnant.

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2006, 13:15:48
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
i really don't see what 'support, child protection and social services' have to do with something like this. explain to me how these bodies can stop people acting on their sexual and other urges.

The fundamental problem is that she's in an environment where she's drinking, smoking, deprived, hopeless, uneducated, lacks parental support and control, lacks proper child activities to do etc. The pregnancy is a symptom not of urges but of deprivation and poverty.

There's a cathegory of country that's so free and wealthy that they stop children from labour, starvation and being locked up in their own ignorance at sustenance farms, but that lack the social equality and social safety net that would keep people from "dropping out" at the bottom end. And if you think this girl hasn't dropped out, you're a bit delusional.

JM^3
15-05-2006, 13:22:06
Originally posted by Greg W
It's really only recent (aka last 100 or so years) morals that paint teen sex and having babies as a bad thing. Girls used to have babies at age 14 or thereabouts a lot more often in the "old days". Then again, almost everything is different to those days, so it's hard to guage what's right and what's wrong.

14 is a lot fucking different than 11

JM

Kitsuki
15-05-2006, 13:38:43
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
hey she's doing what 99% of CG losers wish they could, she should be applauded

Yea, I've been trying to get pregnant since I hit 12, and still no luck.... :(

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 13:39:42
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
The fundamental problem is that she's in an environment where she's drinking, smoking, deprived, hopeless, uneducated, lacks parental support and control, lacks proper child activities to do etc. The pregnancy is a symptom not of urges but of deprivation and poverty.

There's a cathegory of country that's so free and wealthy that they stop children from labour, starvation and being locked up in their own ignorance at sustenance farms, but that lack the social equality and social safety net that would keep people from "dropping out" at the bottom end. And if you think this girl hasn't dropped out, you're a bit delusional.

thank you for your accusation but i'm fully in control of my senses

it's all very well talking about proper child activities and suchlike but there's a rather naive cub scout kind of vibe about that.

ultimately, kids under 16 are having sex - this case is the extreme end, but your 'dropping out' talk only applies to a few of them. there's a sizeable mass of kids under 16 who want and are having sex with each other and are not living in social or economic poverty. i think the knee-kerk reaction is to assume this is some kind of chav problem and ignore the biological and attitudal changes of the groundswell of teenagers.

MoSe
15-05-2006, 13:41:59
Originally posted by JM^3
14 is a lot fucking different than 11

JM for once your choice of words is spot on

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2006, 13:42:41
I certainly wasn't having sex at 11 (this is 11, not 14...), nor was anyone I knew. I grew up in a fairly affluent neighbourhood. Are you telling me there's no connection?

Japher
15-05-2006, 13:45:37
prostitutes too expensive in your hood?

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 13:47:21
as i said, that is the extreme case, clearly most kids are having perfectly innocent fun during their early teen years

i just think it isn't as simple as social deprivation = teenage sexual activity

if people are becoming biologically sexually mature earlier they will have sex earlier. whether they're responsible or well-educated or whatever will clearly be a factor in their decision, but impulses are impulses.

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 13:47:42
Originally posted by Funko
Some people might have said that, Koshko didn't. He just said what pretty much everyone I have talked to about this said at first "wtf is an 11 year old doing going out drinking smoking and having sex"?

Having fun is a crime.

By local standards she's quite retarded, most of my neighbours are switching from weed to crack and smack at the age.

They're too fucked up to have sex.

Generally the reason they're so fucked up is become some bastard screwed them as a kid.

How about this as a solution? Abort the fetus, and have the slut sewn up.

Fucking hell, it's like so many people have their head up their arse - "OMG, kids are having sex".

They've been having sex for 1,000s of years and introducing laws to see "that's wrong" is just a waste of fucking time. So is getting all surprised, so is getting all fucking self righteous about it.

I'm sorry, we're too poor to afford your middle class values, OK?

Funko
15-05-2006, 13:50:16
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
as i said, that is the extreme case, clearly most kids are having perfectly innocent fun during their early teen years

i just think it isn't as simple as social deprivation = teenage sexual activity


It might be

social deprivation -> teenage mothers

though.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 13:50:51
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
as i said, that is the extreme case, clearly most kids are having perfectly innocent fun during their early teen years

i just think it isn't as simple as social deprivation = teenage sexual activity

if people are becoming biologically sexually mature earlier they will have sex earlier. whether they're responsible or well-educated or whatever will clearly be a factor in their decision, but impulses are impulses.

If we all were allowed to act on our impulses we'd be in big trouble. I may have been old enough (biologically) to have sex at 14, but there was no way I could have thought the consequences through or dealt with the emotional side.

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2006, 13:54:49
So you're saying that the precence of alcohol, delinquent older friends, lack of parental supervision etc. in no way influenced her pemature sexual debut?

That and equally urge-filled upper-middle-class eleven year old, stuck in a world of pink wallpaper and pony riding would be equally likely to become pregnant?

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 14:01:47
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
If we all were allowed to act on our impulses we'd be in big trouble. I may have been old enough (biologically) to have sex at 14, but there was no way I could have thought the consequences through or dealt with the emotional side.

given that the cops aren't roaming the streets with sex detectors then you are allowed to act on your impluses. and as for your closing statement, i have met many adults who can't deal with the consequences or emotional side of sex, these things aren't exclusive to young girls


Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
So you're saying that the precence of alcohol, delinquent older friends, lack of parental supervision etc. in no way influenced her pemature sexual debut?

That and equally urge-filled upper-middle-class eleven year old, stuck in a world of pink wallpaper and pony riding would be equally likely to become pregnant?

i'll say it again for you slowly. i don't think it's a simple as that. but clearly it's a factor. you've pointed out the two extremes of social experience for kids, and neatly avoided the grey area in the middle where most people live.

if you're determind to prove a point about this particular pregnancy, fair enough it's a big factor. i was more interested in the more far-reaching debate about the problem of young teenage sex in general

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 14:03:22
Hmm, how did that end up as my quote?!

- seems to have reverted back now!

and I wasn't talking about police quelling my urges, I was refering to my parents.

Funko
15-05-2006, 14:04:26
Originally posted by Cruddy
Having fun is a crime.

By local standards she's quite retarded, most of my neighbours are switching from weed to crack and smack at the age.

They're too fucked up to have sex.

Generally the reason they're so fucked up is become some bastard screwed them as a kid.

How about this as a solution? Abort the fetus, and have the slut sewn up.

Fucking hell, it's like so many people have their head up their arse - "OMG, kids are having sex".

They've been having sex for 1,000s of years and introducing laws to see "that's wrong" is just a waste of fucking time. So is getting all surprised, so is getting all fucking self righteous about it.

I'm sorry, we're too poor to afford your middle class values, OK?

Interesting the views you have ascribed to me. I think it's good that most people find this story exceptional and shocking and not normal. I don't think that 11 year olds aren't physically or emotionally ready to have children or bring them up. Of course, it's been going on for centuries and in the past she might have been sent away to have the baby and not splashed across the tabloids.

I think that the pregnant girl is the victim in this situation, she obviously shouldn't be treated like a criminal.

I don't give a shit if people want to have sex/children/take drugs if that's what they want, but we should try and improve any situation where kids are so fucked up that they're taking smack or getting pregnant when they are that young. Let them fuck themselves up when they are mature enough and have enough education to know what they are doing.

Wanting children to grow up able to have a 'normal' childhood, not be on hard drugs and parents when they are still children themselves isn't some crazy extremist idea. Wanting to protect children is a fairly standard human response.

Funko
15-05-2006, 14:05:30
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
and I wasn't talking about police quelling my urges, I was refering to my parents.

:lol: Please don't tell me how they did that.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 14:06:06
I think one thing can be said with certainty and that is that she is NOT emotionally ready to have kids.

Tizzy
15-05-2006, 14:06:14
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
So you're saying that the precence of alcohol, delinquent older friends, lack of parental supervision etc. in no way influenced her pemature sexual debut?

That and equally urge-filled upper-middle-class eleven year old, stuck in a world of pink wallpaper and pony riding would be equally likely to become pregnant?

The second case is possibly just as likely to have sex but probably less likely to get pregnant.

At my school (in a very working class town) the girls who got pregnant were ALWAYS the poorer ones who didn't do as well in school.

Those with aspirations may well also have been having sex but we weren't going to mess up our futures by getting pregnant.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 14:06:53
Originally posted by Funko
:lol: Please don't tell me how they did that.


Well, if I wasn't allowed to tell the police, I don't think I should tell you :)

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 14:10:12
Originally posted by Tizzy
The second case is possibly just as likely to have sex but probably less likely to get pregnant.

At my school (in a very working class town) the girls who got pregnant were ALWAYS the poorer ones who didn't do as well in school.

Those with aspirations may well also have been having sex but we weren't going to mess up our futures by getting pregnant.

hmm, I disagree, In my school it was the children who's parents didn't give a shit who were allowed to have sex and did or didn't get pregnant. I think at age 14 when you get down to it you're not going to say stop, let's use a condom, at least I'm pretty sure the kids I knew had had sex didn't. It was the kids who were allowed to have sex whenever they felt like it who were most likely to end up, up the duff.

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 14:14:17
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed

That and equally urge-filled upper-middle-class eleven year old, stuck in a world of pink wallpaper and pony riding would be equally likely to become pregnant?

Such a child is more likely to have parents who will arrange an abortion to avoid the scandal.

I mean, what would their white surbabanite neighbours think?

Funko
15-05-2006, 14:17:44
I think this is an important point:

Originally posted by Tizzy
Those with aspirations may well also have been having sex but we weren't going to mess up our futures by getting pregnant.

Tizzy
15-05-2006, 14:18:34
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
I think at age 14 when you get down to it you're not going to say stop, let's use a condom,

I certainly did, I was terrified of ending up pregnant.

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 14:21:40
Originally posted by Funko
Interesting the views you have ascribed to me. I think it's good that most people find this story exceptional and shocking and not normal. I don't think that 11 year olds aren't physically or emotionally ready to have children or bring them up. Of course, it's been going on for centuries and in the past she might have been sent away to have the baby and not splashed across the tabloids.



Some adults aren't ready to have kids... that does not mean that some kids are not.

It's the "All kids must comply to our rules" that's so shitty. Christ, most countries wouldn't bat an eyelid. Here we're retarded enough to think that we can generally predict maturity in children.

Originally posted by Funko

I think that the pregnant girl is the victim in this situation, she obviously shouldn't be treated like a criminal.

I don't give a shit if people want to have sex/children/take drugs if that's what they want, but we should try and improve any situation where kids are so fucked up that they're taking smack or getting pregnant when they are that young. Let them fuck themselves up when they are mature enough and have enough education to know what they are doing.



But we don't. We treat kids as kids regardless of their physical development. It's the "one rule fits all kids" bit that is just clearly false.

Originally posted by Funko

Wanting children to grow up able to have a 'normal' childhood, not be on hard drugs and parents when they are still children themselves isn't some crazy extremist idea. Wanting to protect children is a fairly standard human response.

And this is the reason why UK and US societies are increasingly shrinking. We're all so concerend about "protecting" kids they have no scope to really learn anything.

Just lock 'em up in a classroom for 13 years, ideal preparation for adult life where they'll end up locked up in jail.

This is normal and right? It's bullshit.

The fact a lot of people really believe it doesn't make it any less bullshit either.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-05-2006, 14:23:59
Aspirations are certainly a very good reason people don't have sex at too young an age.

The key to being a successful child is to be able to resist what urges you may be experiencing (cos let's face it at 11-16 age and perhaps beyond there are a hell of a lot of strange things going on) and the role of a good parent is to support the child in that and understand what's going on. Both things that sound like they were defintely lackin in this 11 year old's life.

JM^3
15-05-2006, 14:27:24
11 year old is a child, not a teen

if she hadn't been getting drunk with 15 yearolds, she wouldn't have had sex (or gotten pregnant)

JM

Funko
15-05-2006, 14:29:58
I think schools are basically shit, but I really struggle to think of a better way to educate all the kids cheap

On the other hand this story comes mere weeks after the government was encouraging people not to wait so long before having kids.

MoSe
15-05-2006, 14:30:30
Originally posted by Tizzy
I certainly did, I was terrified of ending up pregnant. I remember when I was 22 and one night on the beach I slipped a hand under just the *shirt* of my 17 years and 10 months old date (I know, I know, that was irresponsible), she suddenly stiffened and muttered: ".....I...... Idontwannagetpregnant!"

<sigh>

JM^3
15-05-2006, 14:33:37
11 isn't old enough to want sex (naturally)

the 15 yearold should go to jail

Jon Miller

Funko
15-05-2006, 14:39:50
Originally posted by JM^3
11 isn't old enough to want sex (naturally)


It can be. And girls tend to mature earlier than boys.

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 14:59:55
Originally posted by MoSe
I remember when I was 22 and one night on the beach I slipped a hand under just the *shirt* of my 17 years and 10 months old date (I know, I know, that was irresponsible), she suddenly stiffened and muttered: ".....I...... Idontwannagetpregnant!"

<sigh>

:lol:

self biased
15-05-2006, 15:31:48
that's why i choose Anal Sex! so what if i walk funny for a few days.

Cruddy
15-05-2006, 16:05:45
Originally posted by JM^3
11 isn't old enough to want sex (naturally)

the 15 yearold should go to jail

Jon Miller

Double standard. Why not send them both to jail with having sex with a minor?

In case you haven't noticed, this subject drives me wild.

Funko
15-05-2006, 16:07:41
With lust?

MoSe
15-05-2006, 16:08:48
both to jail, in the same cell, for having sex together???

I didn't imagine you as a kinky porn producer!!!! :eek:

King_Ghidra
15-05-2006, 16:16:48
Originally posted by Cruddy

In case you haven't noticed, this subject drives me wild.

ditto.

i find people express a lot of funny views on this kind of subject, it really seems to key in on some fundamental concepts of society and behaviour

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
15-05-2006, 16:55:40
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
I think one thing can be said with certainty and that is that she is NOT emotionally ready to have kids.

Funny, I'd be saying the same thing about her parents, too.

JM^3
15-05-2006, 19:53:40
Originally posted by Cruddy
Double standard. Why not send them both to jail with having sex with a minor?

In case you haven't noticed, this subject drives me wild.

in my mind there is something very different between having sex with a child, and having sex with an underage teen.

Someone who fucks a child is a monster (And shuld be dealt with as a monster).. someone who has sex with an underage teen should get something between a slap on the wrist (much older teen or low 20s), and some jail time (parent, authority figure..).

I am willing to beleive that some 11 yearolds are not children anymore.. although I would maintain the majority are.

And this subject also drives me wild. I beleive a bullet is the best response to someone who rapes a child. (and any sex invovling a child is rape)

peace,
Jon Miller

JM^3
15-05-2006, 19:54:40
I would still maintain that 11 - 15 is too big of range, and the boy should get jail time.

Jon Miller

KrazyHorse@home
16-05-2006, 04:27:05
Originally posted by JM^3
11 isn't old enough to want sex (naturally)

I was masturbating at age 11. I thought that I'd invented it, and was therefore the biggest genius in the world.

Koshko
16-05-2006, 06:56:17
Originally posted by Cruddy
Bullshit. The reason is we (US/UK) set the age of consent higher than other countries, totally ignoring the fact that if girls enter menarch (start bleeding) they get these urges... you know?

I'm no advocate of fucking children (actually I prefer bald old women :P) but the fact is it's just another golf club in the bag of state management.

Which countries also jail the highest percentages of people?

US and UK.

NZ? Population 4 million, a helluva lot of them are Maoris with own cultural tradition (of getting drunk and getting laid).

Just tell your right wing preconceptions to go take a flying fuck. Look the truth in the face for once, please?


Wow ... I don't remember ever being referred to as Right Wing ... :hmm:

King_Ghidra
16-05-2006, 08:10:21
Originally posted by JM^3
in my mind there is something very different between having sex with a child, and having sex with an underage teen.

Someone who fucks a child is a monster (And shuld be dealt with as a monster).. someone who has sex with an underage teen should get something between a slap on the wrist (much older teen or low 20s), and some jail time (parent, authority figure..).

I am willing to beleive that some 11 yearolds are not children anymore.. although I would maintain the majority are.

And this subject also drives me wild. I beleive a bullet is the best response to someone who rapes a child. (and any sex invovling a child is rape)

peace,
Jon Miller

well you are in a dangerous place then, because in your world, a few days age difference means someone can either get a bullet or a slap on the wrist

but thankfully you have a brilliant way of discriminating between children and teenagers that will underlie your brutal justice:

"some 11 yearolds are not children anymore.. although I would maintain the majority are."

way to create a utopia jm

maroule
16-05-2006, 08:22:31
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
I was masturbating at age 11. I thought that I'd invented it, and was therefore the biggest genius in the world.


:lol:



It only made you a jerk

JM^3
16-05-2006, 14:47:14
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
well you are in a dangerous place then, because in your world, a few days age difference means someone can either get a bullet or a slap on the wrist

but thankfully you have a brilliant way of discriminating between children and teenagers that will underlie your brutal justice:

"some 11 yearolds are not children anymore.. although I would maintain the majority are."

way to create a utopia jm

Yeah, because raping children doesn't demand justice..

You can lower the cut off age to 10, I agree it is better to be safe than sorry.

Jon Miller

King_Ghidra
16-05-2006, 15:18:10
JM, i'm firmly of the opinion that anyone who rapes anyone is a monster, regardless of the age of either party

as uk law stands, anyone under the age of 16 is not legally able ot consent to sex, hence statutory rape. however i think most people accept that many people under the age of 16 are able to consent to sex, and this is why this issue is a horribly grey area.

i can't understand arguments like fucking a 10 year old is definitely bad and fucking an 11 year might be ok. i understand the law just draws a line in the sand but i think we live in a world where people currently think some underage sex is ok, even though it clearly contradicts the law

i don't have any definitive answers for this, but i know that the line is not as simple as monster/ok

JM^3
16-05-2006, 16:10:39
Fucking a 12 yearold is sometimes not fucking a child..

Maybe a better test (for child versus teen) is mentration/ejaculation... I am just trying to put the lowest possibly age...

I mean, if 11, why not 10? If 10 why not 9.. and so on. The is obviously ludicrous to everyone who aren't sick fucks.

And it isn't really a grey area. The reason why we have age of consent is because that is the age (in the US at least) the people are considered adults as far as legal rights are concerned (except for the ability to drink...). statutory rape only occurs between people older than that age and younger than that age.. I am suggesting a new line, to denote those who don't have the legal rights of an adult but that might want sex, versus those who are children...

The only time that sex with a minor should result in penalties (when a teen is the minor in question) is when the other party is in a position of authority. (I would argue that age difference between 11 and 15 puts the 15 yearold in a position of authority) Harsh punishment should only be for large authority (teachers, parents, preists, etc..).

On the other hand, having sex with a child is always rape...

Jon Miller

JM^3
16-05-2006, 16:14:24
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
I was masturbating at age 11. I thought that I'd invented it, and was therefore the biggest genius in the world.

Honestly? I masturbated at 11 as well.. but I have had 'sexual' fantasies all my life (that I can remember) and I sure as hell know that that isn't usual/natural.

Jon Miller
(and my parents were very conservate when I was young, and I can't remember getting it from TV/interactions when I was young)
(I am not saying I was abused.. I am saying that there was something that disturbed me)

Funko
16-05-2006, 16:18:16
The Age of Consent is fairly arbitrary though. In the US it's mostly 18, in the UK it's 16, in France it's 15, in Germany it's 14, in Japan 13 so in all those countries the definition of "sex with a child" is already very different.

Funko
16-05-2006, 16:18:48
Originally posted by JM^3
Honestly? I masturbated at 11 as well.. but I have had 'sexual' fantasies all my life (that I can remember) and I sure as hell know that that isn't usual/natural.

Sounds normal to me.

JM^3
16-05-2006, 16:21:41
Originally posted by Funko
Sounds normal to me.

Umm, not based upon people I know.

Based upon people I know, it is mostly common among those who have been abused.

Jon Miller

Funko
16-05-2006, 16:26:21
I suppose it depends what you are talking about. I was definitely interested in girls when I was 11 and there were kids playing kiss chase and shit at primary school (under 11) and although at that point boys officially weren't allowed to want to get caught and kissed or whatever (ew girls!), I certainly let myself. :D (if anyone wanted to catch me that was. :cry: )

JM^3
16-05-2006, 16:27:26
playing house is different

JM
(which were the only kisses I got before I was 20 :( )
(and considering that I didn't really want to kiss anyone I did past 20... )

Walrus Feeder
16-05-2006, 18:41:11
Society's being ruined by too many teenage pregnancies and children being born to single parent families without a father figure in the lives or just being brought up badly by people who aren't suitable parents.

There should be no need to have a child before the age of 21. I think some girls just want to get pregant just so that they feel wanted and to have a role in life.

Darkstar
16-05-2006, 18:44:04
So--- we should implant contraceptives in all females born, and they can only get them shut off when they can prove they are in a steady relationship and has the parenting skills to look after their little ones?

Seriously, what are you going to do? Kids are going to have sex. That means there will be some girls that end up pregnant. Then what?

Walrus Feeder
16-05-2006, 18:55:20
Only some though!

Walrus Feeder
16-05-2006, 19:00:34
Mind you talking of contrasts, there was that woman inn the news who is having a baby at the age of 63! That's madness too!

Gary
16-05-2006, 19:04:27
In my day :coolgrin: the youngsters didn't have sex because girls didn't like the idea of all that yucky having someone inside you stuff. Well ... except for a few known, early mature individuals, and they were only interested in the boys 3 to 4 years older. Seemed to work, I am disappointed to say :(

Darkstar
16-05-2006, 19:18:25
Depends. Girls having sex get to hang out with the older crowd. Kids always want to be seen as older/grown up and doing the cool things that older kids/adults do. Drink, smoke, party, sex. It's all the same thing. Then there's the status of dating/partying with older kids.

Studies show that kids these days get the message that sex is cool, and nothing else, from media in general, and their own media in particular. And since their parents aren't telling them how bad sex is everyday, but their tv, radio, movies, music, magazines, and internet is, they get the message. It's true you need to tell a kid something at least a hundred times before most get it, so it isn't surprising that the message they are getting is that "sex is grand". It's only presented that way in every other thing they view, after all.

Fistandantilus
16-05-2006, 19:30:30
Originally posted by Funko
... and there were kids playing kiss chase and shit...

Wow, great game! I suppose Shitkiss has been a champion at that?

fp
16-05-2006, 21:00:51
Originally posted by Darkstar
And since their parents aren't telling them how bad sex is everyday

Why would they want to do that?

Darkstar
16-05-2006, 21:27:31
Well, parents usually tell kids how important other things are, by repeating them near constantly.

Take out the trash
Do the dishes
Do your homework
Feed the fish
Walk the dog
Brush your teeth
Comb your hair
Go to sleep
I love you
Mow the lawn
Don't hit your sister
Don't beat up my boyfriend
Don't drink my Jack Daniels
Don't steal my lighter
etc
etc
etc
;)

Honestly, how often did your parents tell you that sex was bad? Or sex before you are engaged/turn 14/16/18/whatever is bad?

Things that are important are repeated until you move out. Things that aren't are only mentioned once or twice.

Then, add on anything like sitting down with the parents and watching shows/movies that include lots of romance or people sexing it up (even if only implied), and what are kids going to think? Especially if there's a lot of comments like "If only I was 10 years younger and not married, I'd get a slice of that!" (refering to hot actor/actress on the TV/in a movie).

Koshko
17-05-2006, 03:07:58
We need to find a convienent scapegoat for why kids today are moralless degenerate sluts.

DaShi
17-05-2006, 03:10:28
How can we pin this on Venom?

Diss
17-05-2006, 06:12:38
Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
World record for the youngest mother stands at five years seven months (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina).


I can understand a mother being proud that her daughter is taking the responsibility rather than getting an abortion, which was the full quote. I imagine they got the anger done with ages ago, before the papers came calling. What was she supposed to say? My 11 year old whore of a daughter is keeping the baby, so I'm disowning her?

holy shit (at that link)!!!!

fp
17-05-2006, 06:23:48
Originally posted by Darkstar

Honestly, how often did your parents tell you that sex was bad?


Honestly ... never. Because sex isn't bad.

Koshko
17-05-2006, 06:27:12
That's the problem with the World. We need to go back to the old days where sex was evil.

Diss
17-05-2006, 06:33:40
sex is bad when you see your parents having it.

My solution is parents should regularly have sex in front of their children to scare their children away from it.

Tizzy
17-05-2006, 08:23:56
Originally posted by fp
Honestly ... never. Because sex isn't bad.

Ditto.

Funko
17-05-2006, 08:28:01
Originally posted by fp
Honestly ... never. Because sex isn't bad.

Ditto. Got some embarassing "if you are going to do it be careful" talks though.

maroule
17-05-2006, 08:35:14
I met my wife when she was 16 and I was 24, in the UK, so I was in effect breaking the law and could have been prosecuted should her dad had decided so. It's now 10 years later, so I guess I'm safe, but it does show the letter of the law can be just plain inadapted to specific situations.

Tizzy
17-05-2006, 08:49:08
16 is legal in the UK.

maroule
17-05-2006, 08:56:39
not with a 24 years old partner, with an under 18 one (at least that was the case in 96)

Tizzy
17-05-2006, 09:22:37
The age of consent has been 16 for much longer than that I'm sure.

My Googling isn't working too well at the moment though.

Tizzy
17-05-2006, 09:24:26
Ah, there we go



In the UK, the age of sexual consent for women has been set at 16 since 1885, when campaigners fought to raise it from 13 to prevent child prostitution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3699814.stm

Funko
17-05-2006, 09:29:11
I can't seen any reason why that wouldn't have been perfectly legal in 96. They didn't bring in the thing making it illegal if you were in a "position of authority" until 99. (ain't google great).

MoSe
17-05-2006, 09:46:52
this rules out any issue - a surrender monkey can never be authoritative

Fistandantilus
17-05-2006, 10:06:41
Originally posted by Tizzy
In the UK, the age of sexual consent for women has been set at 16 since 1885, when campaigners fought to raise it from 13 to prevent child prostitution.

For women? Is there a different age of consent for men? I protest at these sexual discriminations.

maroule
17-05-2006, 10:20:55
I thought the UK law was : it's possible from 16, but only with partner under 18 (illegal if partner is above 18), then at 18 no more restrictions.

Oh well, I guess I wasn't a sexual criminal then, one less story to tell the kids

Funko
17-05-2006, 10:22:21
Originally posted by Fistandantilus
For women? Is there a different age of consent for men? I protest at these sexual discriminations.

There isn't any more, but there used to be.

Tizzy
17-05-2006, 10:25:21
I'm not sure if there's ever been a male age of consent for heterosexual sex (i could be wrong), but it's only recently the age for homosexual sex has been changed to be 16 as well.

Funko
17-05-2006, 10:28:31
I don't know the history but currently it's illegal if either partner is under 16, regardless of gender.

Nills Lagerbaak
17-05-2006, 10:42:01
Yeah, not long ago the male age of consent was 14 or even non existent. There was also talk a while ago of lowering the age of consent for boys back to 14.

Funko
17-05-2006, 10:45:44
14 year old boys WISH they could be shagging 16 year old girls!

Nills Lagerbaak
17-05-2006, 10:53:42
Especially if they are their teachers!

Funko
17-05-2006, 10:54:45
Some kind of foxy prodigy that's completed all the education to become a teacher by 16?

shagnasty
17-05-2006, 11:01:58
And apparently, there was NO age of consent for lesbians at all.

Tizzy
17-05-2006, 11:02:34
Cos apparently Queen Victoria didn't believe lesbianism existed.

MoSe
17-05-2006, 11:08:49
hhmmmmm....

when I was 14, my family decided to spend holidays in a Club Med
I got in the sailing class, and spent up to 6 hours a day on Vauriens or 420s, learning fast as dad had already introduced me to sailboats.

Then a french vacationer my dad got friend of, wanted his 16 daughter to get some sailing experience without the commitment of the proper course activity.

So my dad offered that during off time I took her around the bay to teach her the basics.

Thus, I was the 14 sailing teacher of a 16 french girl, and a cutie too, named Bernadette IIRC. During manoeuvres of course there was much confusion and concitation, bodies bumped in each other, and I had to physically show her the proper ways to do things...
When we landed, I found out that she had an over 20 and over 6 feet tall bf, who jokingly told her "did he behave?" while slapping me on the back, practically disassembling me bones

Ah, memories :(

Funko
17-05-2006, 11:10:01
Exactly! :lol:

mr_G
17-05-2006, 11:17:46
:lol: stick to the ham M.

Nills Lagerbaak
17-05-2006, 13:10:10
Originally posted by MoSe
hhmmmmm....

when I was 14, my family decided to spend holidays in a Club Med
I got in the sailing class, and spent up to 6 hours a day on Vauriens or 420s, learning fast as dad had already introduced me to sailboats.

Then a french vacationer my dad got friend of, wanted his 16 daughter to get some sailing experience without the commitment of the proper course activity.

So my dad offered that during off time I took her around the bay to teach her the basics.

Thus, I was the 14 sailing teacher of a 16 french girl, and a cutie too, named Bernadette IIRC. During manoeuvres of course there was much confusion and concitation, bodies bumped in each other, and I had to physically show her the proper ways to do things...
When we landed, I found out that she had an over 20 and over 6 feet tall bf, who jokingly told her "did he behave?" while slapping me on the back, practically disassembling me bones

Ah, memories :(

:lol: I hope you said, of course I did, I was in a position of authority!

Gibsie
17-05-2006, 14:02:32
Originally posted by maroule
I met my wife when she was 16 and I was 24, in the UK, so I was in effect breaking the law and could have been prosecuted should her dad had decided so. It's now 10 years later, so I guess I'm safe, but it does show the letter of the law can be just plain inadapted to specific situations.

Nah, that's wrong. The law hasn't changed in over a century in that regard (as shown by Tizzy), so, sadly, all those memories you have of sex with a 16 year-old aren't quite as illicit as you've been thinking all these years ;)

King_Ghidra
17-05-2006, 14:45:36
though still tempting for me to wank to

Funko
17-05-2006, 14:52:47
http://www.muf.me.uk/files/maroule.jpg

Hope this pic of him helps.

maroule
17-05-2006, 15:24:36
calm down, remember I'm RC in reality

King_Ghidra
17-05-2006, 15:30:35
actually i do have a picture of mrs maroule on my hard drive :cute:

Nills Lagerbaak
17-05-2006, 15:33:44
What?! Put her in a football kit immediately. May she form the first of the all girl CG team.

maroule
17-05-2006, 15:48:54
:lol:
she once dressed in my football kit, thought it would turn me on... It didn't, football is too sacred. Besides, we invented the french maid outfit for a reason.

King_Ghidra
17-05-2006, 15:51:57
It didn't? :eek:

i have to admit a weakness for a girl in a football kit

Funko
17-05-2006, 15:56:15
I know it's not technically a kit but we could do with a post from Scud Wallaby to get his avatar in no this discussion.

Nills Lagerbaak
17-05-2006, 16:23:08
I couldn't think of anything more unsexy than a girl in a footy kit!! worse even than a hockey kit!

Tennis atire on the other hand.....

Funko
17-05-2006, 16:26:46
I'm surprised with your normally great imagination.

John Prescott wearing only high heels = more unsexy than a girl in a footy kit - FACT!

Gibsie
17-05-2006, 16:46:24
Originally posted by maroule
:lol:
she once dressed in my football kit, thought it would turn me on... It didn't, football is too sacred. Besides, we invented the french maid outfit for a reason.

So they get back to cleaning after sex and don't try to pull any of this "cuddling" BS instead?

Oerdin
18-05-2006, 02:57:03
Originally posted by maroule
I met my wife when she was 16 and I was 24, in the UK, so I was in effect breaking the law and could have been prosecuted should her dad had decided so. It's now 10 years later, so I guess I'm safe, but it does show the letter of the law can be just plain inadapted to specific situations.

I have to scratch my head and wonder why you were dating a girl in her mid teens. I can barely stand girls who are under 21 and it's been that way since I was around 25.

How much can a 24 year old really have in common with a 16 year old?

King_Ghidra
18-05-2006, 08:34:12
they both love maroule

maroule
18-05-2006, 08:47:05
:lol:
good one


well we dated for a month, they I went to work abroad for about 5 years, so it was mainly a long distance relationship (we saw each other about a week every quarter, at he most), until 5 years ago, where we moved together. I think Oerdin is right, if we had had to actually be together during the first 5 years, the differences would have probably made the relationship explode.

Nills Lagerbaak
18-05-2006, 10:18:00
Originally posted by Funko
I'm surprised with your normally great imagination.

John Prescott wearing only high heels = more unsexy than a girl in a footy kit - FACT!

That is pretty unsexy. Especially if he was reclining on a piano singing Whitney Houstons "I will always love you"

Greg W
18-05-2006, 10:25:59
A girl in a footy kit is unsexy? :confused:

Nills Lagerbaak
18-05-2006, 11:10:35
Defintely. No definiton of any part of the female anatomy. Men's footy shirts do not flatter the female upper half.

MoSe
18-05-2006, 11:56:08
but you can't question her ball-handling, tho

King_Ghidra
18-05-2006, 12:07:55
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Defintely. No definiton of any part of the female anatomy. Men's footy shirts do not flatter the female upper half.

well the lower half has some stockings and cute little shorts, and the top half features bulges in places that you don't normally see a football top bulge

that's good enough for me

Nills Lagerbaak
18-05-2006, 12:24:30
Agreed about the lower half!


Hmm perhaps a shirtless female kit is the answer.

King_Ghidra
18-05-2006, 12:37:13
you and sepp blatter have a lot in common

Nills Lagerbaak
18-05-2006, 13:20:50
Sepp blatter??

maroule
18-05-2006, 13:27:18
it's a reform (tight shirts in women football) blatter tried to push through
didn't go down too well, maybe the fact he looks like an old pervert didn't help

Nills Lagerbaak
18-05-2006, 13:33:01
Good man! Defintely the right idea.

Incidentally do commentators still say "well, it is a man's game"

Venom
18-05-2006, 14:23:49
Maroule is a dirty, child raping pervert. Can't say I'm suprised.

Koshko
19-05-2006, 00:18:00
Remember that we are talking about the moralless generate slut kids nowadays, not the moralless degenerate sluts of yesteryear.

maroule
19-05-2006, 07:20:39
well, I'm a pervert who got caught with a "for life" sentence :D

MoSe
19-05-2006, 07:38:13
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Hmm perhaps a shirtless female kit is the answer.

nonono, you spoil the effectiveness of those ads which exploit/mock the habit of taking off the shirt to celebrate a goal, but set in female soccer....

Nills Lagerbaak
19-05-2006, 08:16:08
Ah!, I'd forgotten about that. Pehaps just sports bras then, which can obviously be swapped as well....