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Asher
05-04-2006, 21:52:09
Game over, Sony.


http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/05/scee-vp-says-ps3-will-cost-499-to-599-euros/

King_Ghidra
05-04-2006, 21:54:18
Originally posted by Asher
Game over, Sony.


Just quoting for future reference

Asher
05-04-2006, 22:02:43
Turns out RSX doesn't have any vertex shaders now, either. Has to use Cell for that.

Venom
06-04-2006, 14:11:27
Article has been mistranslated and misquoted. The guy said 500 would be a lot for a console and the PS3 could cost more or less than that.

If sony was smart, they'd make the Blue-Ray drive an add on. That's gonna kill their price.

Darkstar
06-04-2006, 15:08:47
The Gamespot article had him saying that as a game only device (a game console), 500 would be very expensive. But as a Blue-Ray HD DVD-R TV DVR device that *also* plays games, it is damn cheap. Gamers that only want to play games will be baka and tell Sony to go fuck itself; smart customers will see the actual bargain and are pre-ordering it right this second.

I think a lot of gamers will be telling Sony to fuck off for a while, rather then getting the PS3.

King_Ghidra
06-04-2006, 15:29:37
well i do agree to a certain extent with MS's assertion that first to market is half the battle. But with sony's market share and games base there's clearly more to it than just that.

Unless the 360 comes up with a good games base it will still lose. The hardware stuff is all secondary to that, most console gamers aren't so much into the specs, they just want next-gen versions of the games they like, whatever the flavour.

Darkstar
06-04-2006, 15:51:58
But there's a basic cost point that they need to get the hardware under.

Sony's PS3, if prices along the lines of M$ 360, would not take long to catch up in units sold. Brand loyalty and their game catalog will assure that. But if the unit starts off costing significantly more, that will make a lot of customers wait until the price drops. Loyal fan boys become less loyal as the price goes up.

King_Ghidra
06-04-2006, 16:07:14
Yep, not arguing with that. But sony (and MS in fairness) have done well in the past at significatly dropping the console cost over time. i don't think the cost will be an issue unless it stays above 200 (c.$350?) after a year or so.

Funko
06-04-2006, 16:14:54
The x-box 360 (full version not the cut down one) is just under 300, which is about 400.

499 is really not that much more expensive and it's got the Blue Ray stuff which is normally even more expensive.

The $ price Asher posted is less than what the RRP for the x-box 360 appears to be according to amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B43OY4/qid=1144339821/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-1490725-5514235?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=468642)

So I don't really understand why he's so shocked. Even if those 'mistranslated' figures are right it's going to be around the same amount as the 360 was at launch, the 360 will be cheaper by then, but 500 doesn't seem shockingly high to me.

Sir Penguin
06-04-2006, 16:43:24
That minimum cost is higher when you consider that the only reason it's US$600 (and a year late) is that it has the ability to play movies that will cost a further US$25-$30 each.

Also, the 360 Premium in Canada is C$500, which is 350 euros. If it's 400 euros in the UK, then the PS3 will also probably be a bit more expensive than the American figures.

SP

Venom
06-04-2006, 16:58:52
When the PS3 is released....whenever that may be. MS will drop the price of the 360 to make matters worse for Sony.

Fistandantilus
06-04-2006, 17:05:53
Amen to that.

Venom
06-04-2006, 17:19:16
At the rate they're going, Sony will be lucky to get this thing out by November.

Asher
06-04-2006, 17:48:16
They're doing a worldwide launch in November, just like MS did.

Expect the same shortages.

Venom
06-04-2006, 17:55:36
Yes, hence my November comment.

I still don't think they'll make it.

Sir Penguin
06-04-2006, 22:15:09
Originally posted by Venom
When the PS3 is released....whenever that may be. MS will drop the price of the 360 to make matters worse for Sony. And they'll release Halo 3, if it's ready.

SP

Asher
06-04-2006, 23:13:22
Halo 3 is now expected in March '07.

Asher
06-04-2006, 23:13:56
The idea is the Xbox 360 will sell well enough without Halo 3 during the holiday season, and once sales taper off again in March, Halo 3 would spike sales.

Funko
07-04-2006, 08:24:54
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
Also, the 360 Premium in Canada is C$500, which is 350 euros. If it's 400 euros in the UK, then the PS3 will also probably be a bit more expensive than the American figures.

SP

Electronics are always more expensive here, the difference is more pronounced now the dollar is so weak.

Cruddy
08-04-2006, 22:29:00
Originally posted by Asher
Game over, Sony.


http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/05/scee-vp-says-ps3-will-cost-499-to-599-euros/

Or "Sony to release product that is better and therefore more expensive than Bloatware Shit"

Cheapest doesn't always do better in terms of hardware. Historical fact that.

Cruddy
08-04-2006, 22:32:09
Originally posted by Darkstar
But if the unit starts off costing significantly more, that will make a lot of customers wait until the price drops. Loyal fan boys become less loyal as the price goes up.

Actually, people prefer to pay more for a better product.

It's the "We're keeping AHEAD of the Jones'" mentality.

"Oh? You spent 200 on your game system? We spent 400 on ours."

Unless you're a nerd, you'd be impressed.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
08-04-2006, 23:01:52
But on the other hand, you've got Betamax vs. VHS.

Cruddy
09-04-2006, 01:07:22
What's other handed about it? That's exactly what I'm saying.

You've also got ST Vs Amiga. And which one cost more? Which sold more and kicked the other's arse?

The more expensive one. Because it was more desirable, despite arriving to market later with less software support.

Go check release dates of A500 versus ST512 if you don't believe me.

Oh, go check sales while you're at it.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
09-04-2006, 04:50:03
I got an Amiga way back when because it had more and better games (at time of purchase, I was not an early adopter). And a better operating system. It was a superior system, but I'm not about to dredge up 15 year old "my computer is better than yours" arguments, except to say one of my friends had an ST and hated it for exactly the reasons the rest of us got Amigas. Given that my parents were the ones buying it, price had very little to do with it.

I still don't see how your argument is 'Betamax vs. VHS' in content. Beta vs. VHS was a triumph of marketing and open standards over proprietary standards, wheras your argument seemed to consist of nothing beyond "people want what's more expensive because it's perceived to be better".

Good money on Blu-ray going the same way as Betamax. Given they're both Sony, and Sony didn't learn that proprietary standards are bad when put head-to-head with an open standard (see: PSP video cart thingy, MemorySticks etc. etc.) I expect much the same outcome.

Asher
09-04-2006, 05:00:18
Originally posted by Cruddy
Or "Sony to release product that is better and therefore more expensive than Bloatware Shit"

Cheapest doesn't always do better in terms of hardware. Historical fact that.

No, but since it's now very likely that Xbox 360 games will have the visual edge over PS3 games, as well as the price advantage.

People are going to look at the PS3 -- which will supposedly include Linux on the harddrive and a bluray player 95% of people won't and can't use -- and consider it bloatware shit. ;)

Asher
09-04-2006, 05:01:52
Originally posted by Cruddy
Actually, people prefer to pay more for a better product.

It's the "We're keeping AHEAD of the Jones'" mentality.

"Oh? You spent 200 on your game system? We spent 400 on ours."

Unless you're a nerd, you'd be impressed.

Well that certainly explains the overwhelming success of the 3DO and Atari Jaguar. :gasmaske:

Cruddy
09-04-2006, 12:13:10
Originally posted by Asher
No, but since it's now very likely that Xbox 360 games will have the visual edge over PS3 games, as well as the price advantage.

People are going to look at the PS3 -- which will supposedly include Linux on the harddrive and a bluray player 95% of people won't and can't use -- and consider it bloatware shit. ;)

Microsoft = Bloatware.

Only things that can be classified as Bloatware have MS logos on.

Trust you not to get the joke!

Cruddy
09-04-2006, 12:14:12
Originally posted by Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
I got an Amiga way back when because it had more and better games (at time of purchase, I was not an early adopter). And a better operating system. It was a superior system, but I'm not about to dredge up 15 year old "my computer is better than yours" arguments, except to say one of my friends had an ST and hated it for exactly the reasons the rest of us got Amigas. Given that my parents were the ones buying it, price had very little to do with it.

I still don't see how your argument is 'Betamax vs. VHS' in content. Beta vs. VHS was a triumph of marketing and open standards over proprietary standards, wheras your argument seemed to consist of nothing beyond "people want what's more expensive because it's perceived to be better".

Good money on Blu-ray going the same way as Betamax. Given they're both Sony, and Sony didn't learn that proprietary standards are bad when put head-to-head with an open standard (see: PSP video cart thingy, MemorySticks etc. etc.) I expect much the same outcome.

And they were both trashed by a more expensive, more capable product (ie the PC) becoming more affordable.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
09-04-2006, 16:43:27
The (relative) ultimate in open standards, the PC was hugely inferior to both the ST and the A500, but its modularity and abililty of companies to compete drove product development. The Amiga died due to being closed standards and having no good development or marketing. Commodore ran it into the ground.

Cruddy
10-04-2006, 01:45:50
True up to a point, but even if Kaiilash Ambwani hadn't been such a greedy bastard and CBM had actually paid developers on time it was still doomed.

Too many people making too much cheap PC hardware - closed standards as you say.

Rise of the PC as a games standard was predicted as early as 1988 (prolly earlier) but it wasn't really acheived until you started seeing 486-SX complete with hard drive at the 400 price point. That's from a UK perspective, but you know roughly when I'm talking about.

The game's not over yet. The bout doesn't start until both players are in the ring.

BigGameHunter
20-04-2006, 14:27:07
I can't keep HDDVD systems on the shelves. If Ps3 has that feature, I may consider it as an alternative. The aforementioned are flying out the door at $500 and they don't play games...

Funko
20-04-2006, 14:31:35
Originally posted by Asher
No, but since it's now very likely that Xbox 360 games will have the visual edge over PS3 games, as well as the price advantage.

People are going to look at the PS3 -- which will supposedly include Linux on the harddrive and a bluray player 95% of people won't and can't use -- and consider it bloatware shit. ;)

What Sony did really well in the UK at least, was make the PlayStation cool. People who weren't previously gamers had playstations. There is a huge market for non technical people who don't give a shit about the technology and just want to upgrade their playstation so they can play the new versions of the games they like.

edit: Which is basically what K_G said aboev

Venom
20-04-2006, 14:38:17
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
I can't keep HDDVD systems on the shelves. If Ps3 has that feature, I may consider it as an alternative. The aforementioned are flying out the door at $500 and they don't play games...

PS3 will have blue-ray not HD DVD, that's why it's so expensive, because blue ray drives, and blue ray discs, are more expensive.

BigGameHunter
20-04-2006, 14:46:45
Ah...well...I'm just a simple man, however, I know there is a lot of hype for this already and we will have long lines of fervent buyers regardless of cost. People who can't rub two nickels together buy the 360 like it's a newspaper or something.
Gadgetry and gaming are huuuuuuge markets.

Venom
20-04-2006, 14:56:55
Blu-ray is going to be the death of the PS3, either through costs, or through market conditions. At this point, unless the Sony team can pull something major out of it's ass, Blu-ray looks like a loser in the format war. While it may be a superior format, it's more expensive and later to market. Two very bad things to be.

Funko
20-04-2006, 15:19:37
Sony have had that problem a lot of times.

King_Ghidra
20-04-2006, 16:08:33
they certainly crippled their original mp3 player bid with their insistence on using their own retarded format

Funko
20-04-2006, 16:10:29
Although retarded crippling doesn't seem to have hindered Apple's ability to sell I-Pods.

King_Ghidra
20-04-2006, 16:11:37
but i can put mp3's on my ipod...i don't have to convert them to anything else...

Funko
20-04-2006, 16:15:30
Yeah it's not as bad as the original Sony ones.

I think that you can't copy stuff off your i-pod onto another computer because the way to transfer stuff is by synchronising? And if you delete something from your computer then synchronise, or synchronise with a computer with other stuff on it it won't work? And you are tied into using iTunes?

Any or all of those might be wrong. But you don't have those limitations with other players. Now the market is mature I wouldn't get an iPod if I was choosing an mp3 player.

Funko
20-04-2006, 16:21:51
After some research...

it looks like the sync does work both ways on the new ones, but you still can't selectively choose what to transfer.

Funko
20-04-2006, 16:24:55
Basically, I hate iTunes.

Venom
20-04-2006, 16:52:05
Sony's never been in this position before. The last console they released was a generation better than anything else, they had market from the PS1 and they were using a standard format.

The only thing Sony has going for them this time, is slightly better tech specs and the "coolness" thing you mentioned above (which negates their technical advantage maybe).

Asher
21-04-2006, 04:48:30
Originally posted by Funko
Sony have had that problem a lot of times.
UMD and Beta?

Funko
21-04-2006, 07:50:34
Minidisks

Asher
21-04-2006, 20:09:42
All failed, in any case.

Cruddy
22-04-2006, 01:32:14
Yeah. It's impossible to buy a Mini disk. Nobody ever uses them.

Want to buy a bridge? ;)

Sir Penguin
22-04-2006, 06:03:27
I haven't seen a minidisc since 2002.

SP

Asher
22-04-2006, 06:06:18
Minidiscs flopped worse than BETA over on this side of the pond. The only person I've ever known with one was a kid from Hong Kong.

Cruddy
22-04-2006, 23:03:07
That's because you have the musical talent of a one flippered goldfish.

Ask a MUSICIAN whether minidisk is any good.

Sir Penguin
22-04-2006, 23:31:52
Hey, Funko, was the minidisc a successful format?

SP

Scabrous Birdseed
23-04-2006, 08:35:39
The minidisc is fine for specialised applications. It's vastly cheaper than DAT for reasonable-quality portable recording, and it's only now being superceded by flash-based recorders.

Asher
23-04-2006, 21:52:00
Originally posted by Cruddy
That's because you have the musical talent of a one flippered goldfish.

Ask a MUSICIAN whether minidisk is any good.

Why the fuck should I do that when we're talking about mainstream format success?

Lick my ass, fucknut!

King_Ghidra
24-04-2006, 08:34:22
yup agreed with asher

the point is well-proven, sony's obsession with its propietary formats has not been a success in recent years

let's see what happens with blu ray, i guess sony keep at it on the basis that if one of these formats goes big, it will pay much more than the cost of the failures

Funko
24-04-2006, 08:59:13
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
Hey, Funko, was the minidisc a successful format?

SP

I don't think so. I was intending to add another flop to Asher's list. Not sure if that's been misinterpreted or not? :confused:

Darkstar
24-04-2006, 20:14:38
Originally posted by Asher
Minidiscs flopped worse than BETA over on this side of the pond. The only person I've ever known with one was a kid from Hong Kong.

True. As a mainstream format storage, a complete and total flop.

Cruddy
26-04-2006, 00:55:00
Originally posted by Asher
Why the fuck should I do that when we're talking about mainstream format success?

Lick my ass, fucknut!

Think I hit a nerve. You brought the subject up.

Let's try again. You keep panning Sony for alledged failure. When they haven't even launched a product yet.

Worldwide sales success point you out as bigoted twat with nothing on the brain but boosting Bloatware.

Me, I'll wait till we actually see how hardware compares, and how software support compares.

Rather than thinking "It's from Bill! It's holy and must be proctected from infidel unbelievers!"

If he shat in the street, you'd worship his turd as a holy relic.

:p

Asher
26-04-2006, 08:35:38
Worldwide sales success

The minidisc was not a worldwide sales success. Bite your wife's dick, motherfucker.

Funko
26-04-2006, 10:03:12
Like several of the other things mentioned, it was a decent product, but it just didn't take off.

And Scabby is right that as a portable recorder they were widely used and the best thing you could get until recently when mp3 players started offering you recording inputs.

But still very niche.

Skanky Burns
26-04-2006, 12:01:03
Cruddy = Aggie?

Cruddy
26-04-2006, 12:52:49
SKanky, now I do feel insulted by that idea.

Cruddy
26-04-2006, 12:54:21
Originally posted by Asher
The minidisc was not a worldwide sales success.

They made more money on that than you'll ever see.

How do you define success, Mr Foulmouth? By making money or by being Ford?

I'd rather make money. Anyway, how much extra is it going to cost Sony to put 1GB of RAM in there and out spec Bloatware?

That's one easy out for them. There's quite a few others.

I agree with you in the sense of having a faster, more capable storage device means jack when it comes to games.

Whether it succeeds or not - we'll just have to wait, eh?

King_Ghidra
26-04-2006, 13:13:43
I'm intrigued - did sony really make money on minidisc? how do you substantiate that claim?

i actually still have an old sharp stereo with a mindiscp layer in it, and i loved it when it first came out. for recording stuff off the radio etc. it was wicked. but my memory of it is that hmv briefly had a section in the shop with new albums on minidisc but it quickly sank without a trace.

i'd be surprised if sony made money in that kind of climate

Funko
26-04-2006, 13:20:30
It was a decent format. I nearly bought one.

I think the main problem was that soon after minidisk came out PCs started having CD burners as standard, if you already had a CD burner and CD players it was tough to justify getting a minidisk to basically do the same job and they weren't cheap, either for the systems or the blank disks.

Asher
26-04-2006, 21:25:05
I agree with you in the sense of having a faster, more capable storage device means jack when it comes to games.

The problem is bluray is significantly slower as it is a new technology. The 12x DVD-ROM in the Xbox 360 will be either 2-4x faster than the BD-ROM in the PS3, depending of if they put a 1x or 2x drive in.

Asher
26-04-2006, 21:26:34
This is a big deal, too.

512MB of RAM in these consoles.

1x BD-ROMs are 4.5MB/s peak bandwidth, 2x BD-ROMs are 9MB/s peak bandwidth.

12x DVD-ROM is 16.5MB/s peak bandwidth.

Sir Penguin
27-04-2006, 05:30:10
The latest rumours have the PS3 launching at US$399.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/26/latest-ps3-pricing-and-release-news-early-november-for-399/

SP

Venom
27-04-2006, 12:41:09
They almost have to. The market has been set for the next generation consoles. They'll be losing 300 or 400 dollars per unit sold if they include a Blu-Ray drive in those things. That's more than twice the loss usually accepted on console sales.

Cruddy
27-04-2006, 19:41:01
Originally posted by Asher
This is a big deal, too.

512MB of RAM in these consoles.

1x BD-ROMs are 4.5MB/s peak bandwidth, 2x BD-ROMs are 9MB/s peak bandwidth.

12x DVD-ROM is 16.5MB/s peak bandwidth.

OK. Something that might be a bigger deal.

Consider this;-

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1529658/20060427/index.jhtml?headlines=true

And this. Do watch the (low res) video if it's new to you, the ending shows a really fucking awesome product, if only from a design point of view. Haven't a clue about specs, but I'd buy a such a "console", an instinct I haven't had since the Atari VCS.

http://greatreporter.com/mambo/content/view/1202/2/

Also this, which I pointed out to you months ago;-

http://www.i4u.com/article3428.html

Tell me, does the "ending where you finished" bloatware antique do these things?

Not well, if at all. Thanks to that frame buffer hassle, unless you know better?

Perhaps you do. If so tell me, no need to flame me. If I'm wrong about that then fair enough, no issue.

It's kind of a hollow victory for you though, if the ideas are just pipedreams. :(

Asher
28-04-2006, 02:17:43
I have NO idea what the hell you are talking about.

"Wii" is a retarded name. And dual HDTV output is useless to 99.999% of people.

Cruddy
28-04-2006, 15:56:01
Well, we'll see around May 9th I reckon.


...but more importantly, no one has ever interacted with video games in this way before. Our next home console will revolutionize how people play and experience video games..."


AND EXPERIENCE? Could it be virtual headset after all?

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=BVnSbvRtZcOa4Jcx_HApmD-YrY4kdzMd&page=

Hmm... maybe something like this is what they'll actually do;-

https://edimensional.com/

Sir Penguin
28-04-2006, 17:09:36
"Experience" is a meaningless buzzword. A VR headset would be neat, but I wouldn't read so much into it.

SP

Cruddy
28-04-2006, 17:52:08
Uh-huh.

What's the going rate on a lightsaber game then?

Asher
28-04-2006, 19:22:59
Nintendo Wii:

Hilariously bad name, gimmicky controller, underpowered hardware.

== success? I don't think it will be.

It'll be "success" in that it'll turn them a profit, it'll be a failure in that Nintendo's marketshare will continue to shrink and their mindshare becomes equated with stupid names and gimicks.

Darkstar
28-04-2006, 21:06:44
Wii - Meant to invoke the English concept of "We". Meant to be a social center/family center. They are tossing Revolution away because Corporate thinks people will think Revolution = XBox's 360, and buy the wrong box/game for their kids/relative's kids.

Okay. Let's see.... I've read that Corporate likes "Wii" because it cannot be abbreviated (Oh really?) and that "ii" = good in Japanese. Of course, I've also read that there is no such sound in Japanese, and that Japanese native speakers have all sorts of problems trying to say the name, let alone match it to the English concept of "we". I don't know if that is true (I'm not that big a weeaboo), but if so, then it seems really stupid, as that's Nintendo's primary market, isn't it?

Plus... I don't think "Corporate" understands that "wee" is also English for piss. They might as well have called the system "shit".

But, the overall game pundits think most Nintendo names have been the stupidest names ever branded, so this is fitting with Nintendo tradition. And it is purely the games offered on the platform that will determine how good Wee does. If its the same as on the older platforms, they don't expect much change in standings for Nintendo. Guess the buzz they've earned over their changes has faded away, leaving the bleak reality hangovers.

Sir Penguin
28-04-2006, 22:02:13
Originally posted by Cruddy
Uh-huh.

What's the going rate on a lightsaber game then?
Don't be a dick. Ever heard of the Windows Vista experience? That doesn't mean a VR headset. It's a meaningless buzzword.

SP

Darkstar
28-04-2006, 22:05:05
Remember the Windows XP Experience? How about the XBox Live Experience?

Experience is a meaningless spacer in marketting talk.

Cruddy
30-04-2006, 20:50:15
Originally posted by Darkstar
Remember the Windows XP Experience? How about the XBox Live Experience?

Experience is a meaningless spacer in marketting talk.

Different usage. Those examples use experience as a noun. This was using it as a verb.

Cruddy
30-04-2006, 20:51:29
Originally posted by Cruddy
Uh-huh.

What's the going rate on a lightsaber game then?

Still no takers on a ballpark figure? Try billions. Not profit, turnover.

Asher
30-04-2006, 21:53:02
What's the going rate for magical taxicab fruitflies on rum?

Sir Penguin
30-04-2006, 23:27:01
Originally posted by Cruddy
Different usage. Those examples use experience as a noun. This was using it as a verb.
YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND.

SP

Darkstar
01-05-2006, 15:53:22
Cruddy, are you trying to say that the lightsaber game has a gross revenue of multiple billions? Are those billions in like black market yen or panamanian dollars and once converted to US currency, amounts to $1.27?

The amount of units they'd need to sell to retail channels is more then a one hundren million units to just have the raw income of 1 billion dollars US on that toy. That's a serious amount of manufacturing and package and shipping. I don't think there are that many Star Wars geekazoids of suitable ages and disposable income to make that claim believable.

Just checking the web shows that retail pricing for the toy ranges from $20 to $50 US, so that suggests a channel/wholesale price of $4 to $9 dollars. I just don't see it for that sort of toy.

Cruddy
02-05-2006, 23:14:58
Eh? Darkstar, they don't need to sell 100 million consoles to turn 1 billion in business.

Console sales predictions are 25 mill this year, 32 next, 42 year after. US figures I believe. So just over 100 million on all formats.

The console business, you lose money on the console, you make it back on the software.

This is something Nintendo is a lot better than Sony at - Nintendo's market share in turnover is maybe 5% of Sony's overall (because Sony don't just make consoles) BUT they manage to rake back 40% of the turnover in gross profit compared to Sony's 9% or less.

The real hitting power of a light sabre game is the appeal factor. You're talking millions of Star Wars fans nuts of all ages here.

Up close, "Melee" combat is pretty crap on traditional controllers compared to a motion controller. Try it before you diss it.

Asher
03-05-2006, 02:20:43
Light sabre games will be fantastically popular with six year olds and British people, but no one else.

King_Ghidra
03-05-2006, 09:01:18
:lol:

just like running around a fantasy land and calling yourself a paladin, definitely only appealing to very few freaks

Funko
03-05-2006, 09:12:58
I can see it appealing to a few niches though. Lots of sports games which is a massive potential console market. Tennis, baseball, cricket, golf, anything where you have to hit a ball with a bat/stick/racket.

Venom
03-05-2006, 12:25:17
You're forgetting the most important thing. Imagine how many hilarious internet videos will be spawned thanks to the lightsabre game.

King_Ghidra
03-05-2006, 12:52:19
i saw some info on madden on the wii, and the designers were talking about using the motion of the wii controller to snap the ball etc.

things like that just sound gimmicky to me. there's no way that sanpping a ball with a movement is more of a saisfying gaming experience than say, pressing a start button

and i haven't see the controller in complete detail, but one of the features of the current gen of controllers is the ability to have alllow movement in two directions, i.e. movement of the 'body' one way while also allowing 'look' movement in other directions. i don't know how intuiative this is on the wii controller

Funko
03-05-2006, 12:58:33
Yes, that's my concern. It's all very well as a speciality controller for some games but not if it ruins the way you control more traditional console games.

Nills Lagerbaak
03-05-2006, 13:34:13
Speaking of which, have you ever tried playing GTA3 with a fishing rod controller? I don't really recommend it.

Funko
03-05-2006, 13:36:35
:lol:

Darkstar
04-05-2006, 21:18:23
I wonder how good the wii's controller is at sensing movement? I've played with a fair bit of 3D controllers, and most really suck for playing normal games on. Imagine playing a driving game where the more you point left the more the car turns left, the more you point right the more the car turns right, the more you lift the more the game speeds up your car, and the more you lower the controller the more the game car brakes. See the problem already? Anytime you do more then a single plane of control based on movement, you get into trouble with handheld motion sensors. Humans just cannot hold their arms out that long and that steady for very long. As an occasional control item, you'll do alright.

Cruddy, you said the light saber game was going to generate billion(s) in sales. I wondered how. If your contention is that there will be a lot of follow on games using that hardware, I think you are being very optimisitic. Most such items do not. Even strongly tied heavily branded items. They are just a gimmick. You charge an extreme markup on the item, and that way you break even with just your "handful" of expected fanzer sales. If it turns into a fad, you have mega profits. If it doesn't, you bury the rest of the units in a landfill. That's SOP for that marketting.

Cruddy
09-05-2006, 00:23:55
Originally posted by Asher
Light sabre games will be fantastically popular with six year olds and British people, but no one else.

One day we will meet. You will regret that remark.

Asher
09-05-2006, 01:44:04
It's official.

20GB PS3: $499US
60GB PS3: $599US

Funko
09-05-2006, 12:07:43
You said it would cost 499 to 599 Euros, it's a a hundred Euros less than that.

"The console will be available in two versions starting at $499 (394 euros)."

"Exact pricing in the UK is unclear but at current exchange rates the basic model would be around 330. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4752895.stm

Cruddy
09-05-2006, 20:33:09
Originally posted by Asher
It's official.

20GB PS3: $499US
60GB PS3: $599US

Uh huh. So how does that compare with an Xbox with any sort of drive?

Shame MS can't start up a spare production plant to knock out 20GB drives... but that's what comes from being a software player.

Venom
09-05-2006, 20:41:36
Originally posted by Funko
You said it would cost 499 to 599 Euros, it's a a hundred Euros less than that.

"The console will be available in two versions starting at $499 (394 euros)."

"Exact pricing in the UK is unclear but at current exchange rates the basic model would be around 330. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4752895.stm

Sorry to ruin your day but Sony did say 499 and 599 Euros. Specifically.

Venom
09-05-2006, 20:44:53
And going by this....the 20GB will be basically worthless for next gen gamers.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6149552.html

Source for pricing, specifically the second paragraph:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6149470.html

Asher
09-05-2006, 21:27:55
Originally posted by Cruddy
Uh huh. So how does that compare with an Xbox with any sort of drive?
The Xbox 360 core (no HD) is $299US.
Xbox 360 Premium (HD) is $399US.

Shame MS can't start up a spare production plant to knock out 20GB drives... but that's what comes from being a software player.
Huh....?

Seagate makes the Xbox 360 HDDs, not Microsoft. Production of HDDs isn't a problem. No idea what the hell you're talking about, as usual.

Funko
10-05-2006, 10:36:23
Originally posted by Venom
Sorry to ruin your day but Sony did say 499 and 599 Euros. Specifically.

Ok, fair enough the BBC is wrong then.

King_Ghidra
10-05-2006, 11:03:59
Impossible.

Funko
10-05-2006, 11:12:48
They have corrected the article since I posted that quote. :(

Sir Penguin
10-05-2006, 14:58:15
The low-cost PS3 is also missing the wireless capability (I assume that means wireless controllers, not wireless communications). It's a pretty good dividing line, with the low-cost unit not being crippled (unlike the 360).

SP

Asher
10-05-2006, 21:24:54
The low-cost PS3 version has the wireless controller, but not wireless communication (802.11b/g).

And I very much disagree with the low-cost unit not being crippled. The thing with the Xbox low-cost unit is you can upgrade it later to match the features of the Premium.

With the PS3, there is no way at all to get the features of the Premium thing (HDMI is the biggie) without selling your box and buying a new one. Sony bragged incessantly about the PS3's capability of 1080p, but 1080p is only possible with HDMI. Further, it makes the Bluray player kind of questionable...if and when studios enable the ICT bit on their Bluray media, connections without HDMI (eg, the low-cost PS3) will get a 540p image instead of 1080p.

Venom
10-05-2006, 21:35:58
As much as I hate agreeing with Asher, not having HDMI on the base PS3 is a huge mistake. And a huge slap in the face to gamers.

Cruddy
10-05-2006, 22:37:25
Originally posted by Asher
The low-cost PS3 version has the wireless controller, but not wireless communication (802.11b/g).

And I very much disagree with the low-cost unit not being crippled. The thing with the Xbox low-cost unit is you can upgrade it later to match the features of the Premium.



Agreed. Chopping wireless makes it look inferior right from the get go.

I have no problems agreeing with you when your posts make sense... just have a problem predicting outcomes when too much is unknown.

Sir Penguin
10-05-2006, 23:13:44
I didn't know you couldn't upgrade it. That's retarded. What I meant is that unlike the 360 and its hard drive, games can be targetted to pretty much the same system regardless of whether the customer bought the cheap one or the expensive one. All the users will have the same essential platform, just some will have a crummier one than others (the cheap one is still a ripoff though, like the 360 Core system).

SP

Asher
10-05-2006, 23:43:14
Even that's not true. Sony told us in E3 2005 that 1080p would be the standard resolution.

So far it seems like BS, only one game is running 1080p (only GT:HD is, and that's just GT4 from the PS2 running in 1080p with dust/particle effects are turned off).

But HDMI is required for 1080p.

Venom
11-05-2006, 02:42:58
Have they invented a way to do 1080p without HDMI?

Sir Penguin
11-05-2006, 15:06:21
Resolution won't divide games into those that can run on the both systems, and those that can only run on the premium system, so I don't count it as part of the essential platform.

SP

Venom
11-05-2006, 15:18:14
It's an essential selling point though. Want to use full HD? Well your ass is buying a premium model. No questions asked.

Sir Penguin
11-05-2006, 20:34:56
Well, yeah, that's the point behind having two models. If they could both do the same things, then people would buy the cheap one. Is there a major difference between developing a game for 1080p and developing a game for 540p?

SP

Venom
11-05-2006, 20:44:57
HD is supposed to be one of the quintissential bonuses of next-gen. How can you sell a next gen system without it?

Asher
12-05-2006, 00:14:05
he he...

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6465/ps3liebackend7qe.jpg

Sir Penguin
12-05-2006, 03:38:05
Are there three ethernet ports on the before one? WTF?

SP

JM^3
12-05-2006, 04:26:43
Dudem ut us uts oiwn hub

JJM

Asher
12-05-2006, 05:04:13
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
Are there three ethernet ports on the before one? WTF?

SP
Yup. They told us it'd work as a switch, and the camera would be IP-based.

Asher
14-05-2006, 09:23:20
Further awesome features:

The 20GB HD in the $499 PS3 is NOT upgradeable. Ever. It's built right in.

The $499 version also lacks bluetooth, not just WiFi, meaning you can NOT use wireless controllers with it. Ever.

Cruddy
14-05-2006, 10:01:36
Never say never. Sony won't upgrade but you know how it is with solder monkeys, we like a challenge.

EDIT: Interesting comments here from Sony about the pricing;-

http://news.spong.com/article/10050

It's going to have to be mega special to live up to that.

Darkstar
15-05-2006, 20:57:05
Not everyone is a solder monkey, though.

Cruddy
16-05-2006, 02:14:28
Great. More skilled technician labour earning power for people like me.

You can't really expect me to complain about that now can you?

Let's face it (and I'm pretty sure even Asher would agree with me about this) most off the shelf stuff can be made to run better than stock... that is kind of the point of the Xbox's "You can upgrade from low to high pricepoint" approach.

I must admit Asher, it's not going to help Sony sell units to the masses... but if it does turn out to be better development system (hardware and software) then MS may well have a fight on their hands keeping up with new releases.

How's it going between the game developers and the platforms? That's the real key question.

I take my hat off to people like Asher who can actually get their heads around development systems. Mine kind of splits at the edges and oozes... I get bits of it but never the whole picture.

Asher
16-05-2006, 02:50:42
PS3 is the hardest to program for again. John Carmack recently ranted about this, as did the director of Ubisoft Montreal.

John Carmack likes the 360 from a hardware and from a development tools perspective so much that it's his new lead development platform.

Asher
16-05-2006, 02:52:01
What is cool is if the Linux homebrew stuff actually pans out.

I could write some wicked code for Cell doing some pretty nifty stuff, I think. I've got valid registration keys for all of the latest hyper-expensive IBM compilers for Linux for Cell, as well.

Asher
16-05-2006, 04:00:38
PS3 dead in the water?

http://www.firingsquad.com/features/playstation_3_failure/default.asp

DaShi
16-05-2006, 07:34:29
I have to agree. It looks bad for the PS3.

What they're probably going to try to do is keep the price as it is for about a year to fleece their die-hard fans, then lower the price to suck in the rest later after they have established a better game lineup to revitalize interest.

King_Ghidra
06-09-2006, 09:32:06
Doh. Blu-ray thingy forces delay on euro/aussie/saudi etc. ps3 release dates, so it won't be here until March now...

still a nov release for USA and jp

Venom
06-09-2006, 11:42:30
Also not going to come with HD cables. Those will be extra.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157113.html

fp
06-09-2006, 12:29:32
If you have an HD TV, shouldn't you already have the cables?

King_Ghidra
06-09-2006, 12:43:03
I don't think tv's always come with a bunch of random cables, and these ones are bound to be propietary anyway like console stuff always is

Venom
06-09-2006, 13:20:08
Hey, if you happen to have the exact right set then good for you. I know I usually only keep as many $50 sets of cables around as I can use. That's why most electronics (especially ones you pay $500+ for) come with the proper cables.

Did your TV come with the cables for your PS2?

Asher
07-09-2006, 00:48:45
Originally posted by fp
If you have an HD TV, shouldn't you already have the cables?
Hell no...

TVs don't come with cables for every connection.

Asher
07-09-2006, 22:32:23
Bluray is a bit of a disaster.

HD-DVD is kicking its ass, it caused several PS3 delays (pushing it back well over a year!), and it'll have slower transfer speeds than the DVD drive in the Xbox...

This site is a very good (updated daily) look at HD-DVD vs Bluray: http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

As of today:
HD-DVD titles available: 49
Bluray titles available: 27

HD-DVD titles including preorders: 80
Bluray titles including preorders: 51

Average Amazon.com sales rank of HD-DVD titles: 1,934
Average Amazon.com sales rank of Bluray titles: 8,137

Funko
08-09-2006, 07:56:13
The good thing about HD-DVD is (as a relatively non-technical person when it comes to this type of thing), I know what DVD is, I know what HD is so HD-DVD instantly makes sense. If it wasn't for this thread/PS3 debate I wouldn't have a clue what Bluray was.

Asher
10-09-2006, 16:19:17
HD-DVD is the DVD Consortium's designated successor to DVD. That's why Sony couldn't use DVD in their name for the technology.

King_Ghidra
18-10-2006, 13:13:14
http://angrysonyfanboy.ytmnd.com/

(needs sound)

King_Ghidra
30-03-2007, 10:44:40
Interesting article form the Guardian today:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2007/03/29/the_playstation_3_isnt_for_games_its_for_business_ the_bluray_business.html

The gist of it being that bluray will win the format war purely because of the ps3. There's some up-to-date stats too that make compelling viewing.

Shame Asher doesn't play here any more, i'd be intrigued by his spin on it.

King_Ghidra
30-03-2007, 10:45:50
And of course this fucking stupid bug means the link doesn't work... :tizzy:

Today's Guardian Technology has a short piece (by me) titled "Is the PS3 a Trojan horse to help sell Blu-ray films?"

Unlike almost all stories with a questionmark in the headline, the answer to this one is "yes".

(Apologies, the thumbnail is out of focus. Click for the full size, in-focus version.)

Now, despite the PS3 being the fastest-selling console in the UK in the history of, oh, history, by any objective estimation it's still a bloody pricey bit of kit, especially in the UK.

But here's the thing: it doesn't really need a Blu-ray drive to do its stuff. Oh, sure, "store the game.." Tell us, how big are those games really? You don't need a Blu-ray disc to store them. Else why have a teraflop processor inside?

In retrospect, it's clear that Sony took a very considered decision to make the PS3 as late as it could, as pricey as it could, in order to get the Blu-ray drive inside it. The reason: Sony can make far more money in the coming decades from Blu-ray than from the PS3. Remember, Sony owns a film studio too. Going for Blu-ray might reduce piracy. (We only said might.)

If the Xbox 360 had come with an HD DVD drive, then that format would have got the whole war settled - done and dusted. Except the Xbox360 wouldn't have sold anything like the 10 million it has; you'd be lucky if it had sold a quarter of that, because the price would have been vast.

The shot above is from a slide prepared for Sony by the research company Understanding & Solutions. It shows high-definition market growing fast in a couple of years. But it won't get there if there are two formats competing for it, or if nobody goes there because nobody has won.

I spoke last week to Matt Brown, who is a former Dreamworks executive who now works for Sony in the UK and Europe aiming to get Blu-ray sold. And he's happy. Blu-ray players now outnumber HD DVD in Europe - because of the PS3. Blu-ray players outnumber HD DVD players in North America. If you include the PS3. And that's the key. People buy HD DVD drives because they really want them; they don't buy Blu-ray drives - they find them inside their PS3, which is sold on the basis that it offers high definition. Brown was very happy: Blu-ray titles, he said, are now outselling HD DVD by 3 to 1.

(Sony's figures suggest that by the end of this year there will be 6.5m Blu-ray players in North America, vs 1.63m HD DVD players; and in Europe, nearly 4m Blu-ray players vs 55,000 HD DVD players. The gap doesn't close. Of course, that includes PS3s. I'd bet that in fact the majority will be PS3s. In Europe, it forecasts Blu-ray films and discs outselling HD DVD ones by 10 to 1 by 2009.

The news that the Xbox 360 Elite won't include an HD DVD drive means that, in my view HD DVD hasn't got a chance. It won't get the critical mass, or even a rolling start. Microsoft, which backed HD DVD, will lose.

It may be that following last Friday's launch that this means the high-definition video wars are already over. Yet the intriguing thing is that Blu-ray is the format that Bill Gates rejected because he felt it was too restrictive. So think, as you play on your shiny new PS3, how you've been a player in one of the most valuable format wars in years - and you helped decide the winner. And don't ask how you play the film on multiple TVs at once. You can't. That's the DRM. Enjoy!

Funko
30-03-2007, 11:31:28
Wow, that is very interesting. Especially the prediction that in Europe they'll only have sold 55,000 HD-DVD by the end of the year when they've already sold 165,000 PS3s in the UK in one weekend.

It's a realistic proposition. At home we don't have a seperate DVD player, we've got 2 PS2s a laptop and a desktop that can all play DVDs though.

Funko
30-03-2007, 14:29:58
I think, from what I just read on Poly, that Asher has a PS3 and just bought Happy Feet on Blu Ray. :eek:

King_Ghidra
30-03-2007, 14:44:01
how capricious - you should post a link there to the numerous polemics he delivered against the ps3 and sony in this thread

Funko
30-03-2007, 14:46:22
Oh don't worry, he did that there too

Immortal Wombat
31-03-2007, 11:44:37
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
And of course this fucking stupid bug means the link doesn't work... :tizzy:
It's not a bug, it's a feature!

(also, tinyurl fixes such things)