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JM^3
11-03-2006, 00:42:42
Just got done changing some amplifiers... I want to go rest for a while.

JM

DaShi
11-03-2006, 04:03:04
Eww!

Centara Fugue
21-03-2006, 20:47:01
Hmmm,

This thread seems to have been here for a while. Sup Jon? I've been (somewhat) diligently changing your skills. Loaned Arlanna a cool 20mil to buy a BC (the minmatar one - a flying girder with headlights, solar panels, and saturn V engines). He paid me back 5mil already.

How's work going? Mine's going just fine. Wedding plans are coming along well, too. Future Mrs. Centara and I went and talked to a guy who is going to DJ the reception. Invitations should go out within the week. I'm on the lookout for an apartment.

I'm not sure of the exact hours I'll be in your area next week. I guess I'll give you a call the night before I come down or the day I'm there or something. It may be that you and I will get time during two days to hang out, if you're available.

I guess that's it for now. I guess now I'm subscribed to this thread, so will see if you respond on it.

JM^3
18-04-2006, 07:02:55
you still in Cali?

JM

shagnasty
18-04-2006, 09:38:35
^^The P.M. thingy does still work doesn't it?:rolleyes: ^^

Centara Fugue
18-04-2006, 16:46:56
I do suppose this is a thread nobody else would care about seeing all that much, and yet we keep bumping it to the top.

I'm still in NM, be back on Saturday evening.

JM^3
18-04-2006, 20:50:36
probably won't have internet for another month

JM

Fistandantilus
18-04-2006, 21:22:52
Originally posted by shagnasty
^^The P.M. thingy does still work doesn't it?:rolleyes: ^^

:D

JM^3
21-04-2006, 04:13:51
This is probably better for laptop discussions.

I have looked at the T43, and it seems decent. I think it doesn't have a real Video Card?

Anyways, the reason why I want something light, and possibly a tablet, is that I want to be able to do work on it. I have access to computers at work in locations where I have access to a powersupply. The issue will be moving arround with it and taking down notes and the like.

The interest in the tablet is to draw stuff and have equations. It takes me forever to use xfig to get out a drawing, and sometimes it would be nice to just have a fast one. I am thinking of something that could replace my notebook (the one I keep all the experimental stuff in).

Jon Miller

Sir Penguin
21-04-2006, 07:05:40
The T43 has a PCI Express Radeon X300.

SP

JM^3
21-04-2006, 07:08:32
Oh yeah, that is like the lowest level real Video Card, right?

But still, the reason why I want a tablet is that currently I carry my notebook everywhere. I would like to carry my tablet everywhere instead. This means it should be light. The fact that I might occasionally want to play games means that I would like to have a 1024x768 screen and a keyboard.. (a limitation when you consider the P1510 which would otherwise be great)

Jon Miller

Darkstar
21-04-2006, 20:12:47
Tablets don't play games well. What makes for a good tablet (low power usage, small screens for small machines for easy carrying) are the opposite of what you need to play contemporary games. So most tablet games are simple, due to small screens and needing to avoid things like reading from the disk drive.

If you are going to go tablet, don't plan on it being your gaming rig. They have slow processors (for gaming), and weak components (for gaming). Also, many games need a keypad for decent play, and most tablets won't have a real keypad (even if they have keyboards). If you need USB devices to play the game (such as joystick), that's one more drain on the machine, and one more thing to carry. You are much better off just buying a PSP or DS for gaming. Better battery life, and better gaming experience.

I've messed around a bit with tablets. I believe Asher has a good bit of usage experience with them. Consider asking him or even, gasp!, PMing him.

I personally prefer the convertables, but that adds weight and size. If you are going for lightest to carry, you want a slate (no keyboard). Slates can be docked and then you have a small workstation with actual keyboard. But that means you are stuck with using a soft keyboard (on screen input) and just the stylus when away from the docker.

If you want keys, then you can get a more powerful machine. But if you do anything that will make it do a lot of calcs, sound, or disk reading, you will be doing good to get 45 to 60 minutes out of it before the batteries go dry. For sitting in a class and just scribbling on the screen and taking notes, you should be able to get close to 2 hours out of most units.

if you go for a tablet, I'd suggest getting it from a local dealer. The reason is that most of the tablet's I've sampled have had issues. Sending them back and forth is a much bigger pain then taking it down to a local merchant and screaming at them for dealing in such pathetic pieces of shit. It's also much more satisfying as a customer, and will generally get you an instant replacement that hopefully is fully functional.

I now yield the floor to people that actually know something. ;)

Sir Penguin
22-04-2006, 00:52:07
I've seen people with tablets, and they look fantastic. They're even better if you're left handed, because then your hand doesn't cover up the Windows Start menu.

SP

JM^3
22-04-2006, 06:07:28
Originally posted by Darkstar
Tablets don't play games well. What makes for a good tablet (low power usage, small screens for small machines for easy carrying) are the opposite of what you need to play contemporary games. So most tablet games are simple, due to small screens and needing to avoid things like reading from the disk drive.

If you are going to go tablet, don't plan on it being your gaming rig. They have slow processors (for gaming), and weak components (for gaming). Also, many games need a keypad for decent play, and most tablets won't have a real keypad (even if they have keyboards). If you need USB devices to play the game (such as joystick), that's one more drain on the machine, and one more thing to carry. You are much better off just buying a PSP or DS for gaming. Better battery life, and better gaming experience.


I have been studying getting a tablet for ages, and know more than many people with tablets. Gaming is not really something I plan on doing with it, just would like to be able to play EVE on it.

I know that stats and benchmarks of every tablet out there. A lot of the tablets coming out now are heavier, bigger, and coudl handle games (M4, or the new one by Gateway (has a x1400) (can't be purchased quite yet)), but that isn't what I am looking for in a tablet. But having an XGA screen is better than being able to just play EVE, I would imagine that a lot of things (like PDFs) would get harder to read on a lower resolution.

Actually the perfect thing would be something like the TC1100 (is a 10.1" XGA slate that has a mobile keyboard clip on), but it is a generation old and hasn't really come down that much in price. The other main ones that I am looking at are the M405 and the X41T (There might be a dual core X61T coming out soon). Problem with the X41T.. it is also a bit old.. I am probably leaning mostly towards this one right now. The M405, despite being really the only current generation one out there, is 4.5lbs, so a bit heavy. I have also heard that the HP line is more inclined towards problems compared to some of the other manufacturers.

Most the local dealers suck, have only the heavier units (well, I found a CompUSA that has the TC1100), and are $300 or so more expensive than purchasing them from online sources (in the CompUSA case, $300 more expensive than buying it from the CompUSA online store).

Other interesting models are the (Fujitsu) 4020, and I almost purchased this one, but the store that had a sale on it quite carrying it (must have been why they had a sale on it...) (It was 4.1 lbs). The 5000, which is a slate and much more expensive. The P1510, but it is touch screen and not XGA. The 3100 Scibbler (slate, fancy, ~6 hr batterylife when doing stuff..) but it is very expensive. Then there is the Motion LS800, which is small, but is not XGA. The motion LE1600 is XGA, but is a bit expensive (the motions are slates).

Jon Miller
(edit: I have a PSP)

JM^3
22-04-2006, 06:12:08
One thing is that you can't just go by the processor speed. I have seen ones with 1.5 GHz get their asses kicked by a 1.2 GHz. So actually, the X41T is roughly the speed of the 1.2GHz tablets (the Stylistic 5000, the P1510, and the TC1100). The motion LE1600 and 3100 Scribber are noticeably faster (despite being 1.5GHz), while the M405 is a Core Duo (so the fastest thing there is, except for 3D where it gets beat by the ones with dedicated graphics).

And yes, I know all this (and more) from memory.

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
22-04-2006, 09:02:30
Originally posted by JM^3
And yes, I know all this (and more) from memory.

Jon Miller

Jon Miller, man of temporary encyclopedic knowledge concerning things of interest to him at the time!:p

I have been studying getting a tablet for ages, and know more than many people with tablets.

Yes, but do you know more about tablets? Seriously though, you haven't carried one inside you for 9 months, brought it into the world, and seen it grow up and become a big desktop machine. How can you say you know? Well, really seriously, how about a palm or other similarly sized small portable device? Sure, you have to write smaller, but you also have something little and then you sync it up with your bigger computer. I guess you've thought about that, since you know more than everyone in the world!;) I guess the answer to that is just that even if you went that route, you'd still want a portable computer to do your gaming/surfing/whatever on, and a slate/tablet would be one purchase instead of two.

I'm really not sure why I'm being such a wise-ass. I say go ahead and get whatever it is. You sound like you know just which ones will do what you want already. The slate sounds better than the tablet for reasons we've discussed and as mentioned on here, mainly mechanical. You can always plug a real keyboard and mouse into whatever you get. Besides, that would be cooler than the laptops that everybody gets. Those cable people at your apartment sound like they'll just keep taking their time, so if you want to play, go get it. You'll have fun using it at work too, I'm sure.

JM^3
22-04-2006, 09:13:32
Cabling goes into my appartment on Monday, but I don't think I will be able to get broadband right away.

I have spent outrageous ammounts of time looking at latops.. all the time I would have spent looking at EVE (or some other MMO) information (well, I have worked more also). The problem with getting a palm type one (like the LS800 or the P1510) and a real one (that is ~6 lbs) is that that option is a lot more expensive. And leaves you with more gadgets, which is sorta good.. but more sorta bad. And of course I would synch it with my work and home computers. So yeah, as you said, I am looking for one laptop top fulfill both needs. I am really hoping to get something less than 4 lbs though (and less than 3 would be nice.. maybe I should look again at the TC1100, P1510 and LS800...).

The good thing about a small convertable is that it is a Laptop. A slate is either for handwriting stuff anywhere, or for typing at a desk. I couldn't very easily use an attacheable keyboard in bed or on the couch.

I could go into powered USB ports, bundled software, and Bluetooth if you want more considerations that I have been thinking about.

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
22-04-2006, 09:42:05
How expensive is a docking station for a slate that can be used in your lap (bed or couch)? Neamhain (I mean Ginfizwithatwist) suggested something of that sort. Then you could take that with you whenever you want to use it as a laptop, but you wouldn't be lugging around the keyboard all the time when you were using it in slate mode. That's bound to be marginally lighter (you'd know) and at least thinner, I would think. The stations can be pretty wide to accomodate a mouse surface too, I think (still a lap model). I tried to find some online but gave up looking pretty quickly.

JM^3
22-04-2006, 09:43:43
A few statistics

Fujitsu ST5000 Tablet PC (1.1 GHz ULV Pentium M) - current model is 1.2 GHz
2m 37s (to calculate Pi to 2000000 place)
3.28 Pages/s (Web Page Rendering)
240.95 FPS (Graphics Memory)

IBM ThinkPad X41 Tablet PC
(1.50 GHz Alviso Pentium M)
2m 03s
4.28 Pages/s
420.72 FPS

Toshiba Portege M400
(1.83GHz Core Duo)
1m 19s
5.98 Pages/s
481.44 FPS

Toshiba Tecra M4 (1.86 GHz Alviso Pentium M)
1m 45s
5.57 Pages/s
1180.33 (dedicated GPU)

Electrovay Scribbler Tablet PC
(1.6GHz Alviso LV Pentium M)
1m 58s
5.01 Pages/s
361.39 FPS

As you can see, there is a big slow down for the previous generation.

Jon Miller

JM^3
22-04-2006, 09:49:38
Originally posted by Centara Fugue
How expensive is a docking station for a slate that can be used in your lap (bed or couch)? Neamhain (I mean Ginfizwithatwist) suggested something of that sort. Then you could take that with you whenever you want to use it as a laptop, but you wouldn't be lugging around the keyboard all the time when you were using it in slate mode. That's bound to be marginally lighter (you'd know) and at least thinner, I would think. The stations can be pretty wide to accomodate a mouse surface too, I think (still a lap model). I tried to find some online but gave up looking pretty quickly.

I hvaen't seen any with a keyboard that you can use easily in your lap.

The Electrovaya has a clip on keyboard (that serves as a cover for the screen, so doesn't add anything but weight to carrying it arround). The Motion hs a clip on keboard that I have heard doesn't work very well. The TC1100 has a small keyboard that it hooks into. All these keyboards (but maybe the Motion, haven't look at that as much) are designed to be used on flat services (the TC1100 is designed to be a desktop/slate hybrid).

But I wasn't looking into docking stations, I was looking at reviews and keyboards.

Jon Miller

JM^3
22-04-2006, 10:00:05
The one thing is that it looks like the graphics for the slates are all worse than for the convertibles.. even if other stats look the same.

And considering how much I look at PS files.. and how much easier it would be to get a linux copy on a convertible, I am more leaning convertible now.

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
22-04-2006, 10:01:39
Some of the stuff I read echoed your sentiments about just having a convertible so you can just make it into a laptop if you need one. One review, though, stated that having just the slate (or using the convertible in only slate mode) forces you to become better and better with the slate interface, and in the process you discover new ways to use your slate. The one that recommended a convertible cited entering lengthy documents (more than 50 words) as a reason to have the built-in keyboard.

Is there a convertible that slides instead of swivelling (and is that more durable)?

JM^3
22-04-2006, 10:05:51
The cloest to that I think is the Clip on of the Electravaya. The Clip on for the Motion slides, I think (don't know much about it), but one review said he broke 3 in a couple months.. (which sounds bad).

Jon Miller

Darkstar
24-04-2006, 20:42:03
If he doesn't want the lightest weight, I'd suggest a convertable. And just put up with the extra weight, Jon. It's not actually a big deal.

Convertables have the advantage that any serious text entry or editing, you've got a keyboard right there. Plus, the extra room means better hardware all around, and you can get better bang for your buck (in comparison with slates).

The real problem with tablets (and convertables) is that the longer you wait, the better the offerings.

Jon, if you are thinking about synching a PDA against 2 sources, forget it. It's difficult enough to get one of the darn things to reliably work against one box, going for two will make you go bald from pulling your own hair out in a year. Every PDA user I know ends up only synching against 1 unit, and occasionally bumping files back and forth against a second computer. Plus, PDAs really aren't that useful.

What a PDA does best is be an endless sheet of note paper. But it doesn't transcribe as fast as you just writing on a pad of paper. After that, it is a good waste of time when you are sitting somewhere. Like a doctor's office or on the train. You can read a book or play minor games like Tetris or Warcraft or whatever. But a *good* PDA will cost you about $600, and after periphs to make it useful at home and work without carrying all that gear between the two places and now you are at $900. If you want to do things past that, well... you just hit laptop range. Plus, their screens are small, and that means you won't be using them to do much other then play Tetris and put down your shopping lists or maybe your book list or movie list or whatever.

It's a really a matter of what you need to be happy. If you want your documents wherever you go and might need to work on them wherever you go, then you need a laptop or a convertable. If you never need to edit your documents while away from your home or work stations, then a PDA can fill that need. But if you want something that can do things, you are fast approaching the cost of a small tablet or laptop... both of which are more useful then a PDA, unless all you are doing is keeping your shopping lists on it.

What kind of gaming power do you need to play EVE? And is EVE that big a draw for you that you will drop between $1K to $5K on it just to play it and then abandon it later?

Sir Penguin
24-04-2006, 22:10:45
I agree with most of that, although the US$900 figure is bull for normal people (more like US$500 after peripherals). The PDA's main feature is that it's easily accessible, right there in your pocket, and makes simple data access very fast--things like contacts, notes, schedule, addresses, and so on. It's also good for adding some computational ability to mundane tasks (e.g. you can access encrypted data, you have a finer grain of conflict control over your calendar, etc.), without having to pull out and wake up your laptop. I expect that as cell phones become more useful and affordable, the PDA will become completely redundant, but that's still a few years away. I use both my laptop and my PDA on a regular basis; if I had to give one of them up, of course it would be the PDA. I'd rather get rid of my stupid phone though.

SP

JM^3
24-04-2006, 22:18:45
Ha ha ha...

Eve features very little in what I want. What it does feature in is my desire to have it now, versus later.

I want 1024x768 (for any laptop/slate/convertible that is being made this is EVE's only additional requirement) anyway because I want to be able to read pdf and other documents.

As I said, I want to have it replace my lab notebook, so that I keep down all the stuff that I would normally in there on the laptop as well. This is why I don't want a normal laptop, as I can't do sketchs and the like on it (so it would be slower for any figures (or equations actually)).

A PDA doesn't have the range of software of a tablet, so I don't think it would be desirable (doesn't have the hand writing recognition, doesn't have the equation recognition, doesn't have the abilities to program and the smaller screen would make the reading of online papers and the like annoying).

Weight is actually the single most important thing, as I would like to be able to carry it arround the lab with me, and use it standing up. If it is over 4 lbs, and requires me to set it up every time I move arround, it wouldn't be acceptable. A convertable is basically required for programming.

I talked to my mom this morning, and think I will wait another month or two anyways.. (X61t should be out then..)

Jon Miller

JM^3
24-04-2006, 22:21:53
Really the only two options I am looking at that wouldn't be able to play EVE are the LS800 and the P1510.

The P1510 is not a true tablet (as it is a touchscreen), has a keyboard, but is very small (of course) so maybe the keyboard wouldn't be usuable.

The LS800 is a slate (which I like the idea of, but it wouldn't allow me to program except at a desk where I also had a keyboard.. which might not be too bad actually).

Jon Miller

Darkstar
24-04-2006, 22:31:15
JM doesn't sound like someone that is going to go for the economical choice if he goes PDA. That means he would be looking at Windows Mobile units. So the prices I've put up should be fairly accurate. A basic fully functional Windows PDA starts at $450 and good ones run between $600 to $800 (depending on the feature set he wants, processor, on board memory, connectivity, etc). It's usually about $100 for a spare docker and power supply. Tag in any keyboard docker/expansions and $50 to $100 for large bonus storage, and for a good top line model, you've already a bit past $1100 in hardware alone (going top line PDA unit, and if you are going to dump $200 to $300 in periphs, why stint on the PDA?). Then there's buying new software (which runs between $5 and $500 depending on exactly what you need it to do, although most software is in the $5 to $20 range), and you are better off having gone for a mini-laptop or mini-tablet. At least then, you can already re-use all your software on the mini.

Phones and PDAs should be the perfect convergence. The problem though is the i/o demands opposite things from PDAs and phones. Phones screens are smaller then a PDAs, and that's for the good reason that you want a phone to be very light, low power consumer, and it doesn't need to display more then 2 to 4 lines of abbreviated text. A PDA needs as big, bright, colorful, and sharp as a screen as possible, as that's the display of the computer. The lower the grade of screen, the less useful the PDA is overall. Big screens are okay to hold in your hand for doing a few minutes of work or consulting (ie, checking your directions to a meeting), but is fairly ackward for use as a phone being held up to one's ear all the time, and adds unnecessary weight and unused power drain and cost for a unit that is primarily a phone.

Now, a smart phone that uses a Blue Tooth ear bud seems like how to go, but that's yet more money...

PDAs and Cell phones won't ever become so converged that stand alone PDAs and stand alone (dumb) cells go off the market in the next few years. It's going to have to wait until we have roll out screens, so that when you want it to just be your phone, it's a comfortable size for people to hold and yak on for half an hour, and when they need it as a PDA (such as to play a game or read a PDF doc on), they can pull the full screen out and use that while they do their thing.

Darkstar
24-04-2006, 22:43:08
John, it sounds like you want a convertable.

By the way:
A PDA doesn't have the range of software of a tablet, so I don't think it would be desirable (doesn't have the hand writing recognition, doesn't have the equation recognition, doesn't have the abilities to program and the smaller screen would make the reading of online papers and the like annoying).

Almost entirely not true. Equation recognition, programming, and handwriting recognition is as good on a windows PDA as on the tablets. It is true that the choice of apps isn't as good, but that's just something PDA users put up with. Now, on the PDA, you might need to pay a bit of money to get the software that Microsoft licensed for it's tablets, but hey, thems the breaks. Only professions with too much money and not enough brains are ever thought to use PDAs in the first place, and the market is geared around that target consumer. Although having frequented Mobile forums, I will say that does typify about 30% of the customers.

JM^3
24-04-2006, 22:53:47
From what I was reading, the handwriting recognition is worse even on the P1510, which is noticeably more Tablet like than a PDA.

Also, I would think you would want a keyboard for any programming, which I didn't think PDAs had? Also, while I bet you can run Linux on a PDA, I also bet that it is hard too.

And the PDA market can't be as bad as the Slate market, almost all the people who buy slates are Doctors.. (and so the price is high).

Jon Miller

JM^3
24-04-2006, 22:55:29
Actually, everything that I have read says that it is much better on a tablet than a PDA.

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
25-04-2006, 00:08:24
You can run linux on a pda, pretty well too I think... they make a gui so you don't have to use the command line (Linux != command line all the time... lots of embedded linux don't have any user interface at all), but the one I looked at a few years back had a command line you could get at if you wanted it. As for keyboards, they make little fold-up keyboards that attach to the pda and hold it like a laptop. Of course, I always kept thinking "Why would I sit there in front of that silly thing instead of just getting a real laptop or better yet, going and finding a desktop computer that I could sit at and type at comfortably?"

My phone can browse the web. Now, that's not all the functionality you normally have in a computer, but it is a nice thing to have, and is one of the things I can think of that only really requires a directional pad and some basic text entry. Reading email works, too. Also, friends of mine are fast at typing with their phones because they text each other so much. Usually that's only good for short messages, but it's all you really need sometimes. With those things in mind, it seems to me the portable devices are converging well. I'm reminded of the kind of reviews Adam and Morgan give the handheld games these days on X-Play. They often base part of their opinion on how portable the game in question is... i.e. can you just play for a short time if you want, would you rather just be playing the (ported) game on a home console... things like that concerning how well a game suits the portable environment. The same can be said for tasks done on your portable electronic devices. Sitting down and typing a report is better left to a stationary computer or even a laptop, and I would say that would always be preferable (well, maybe just /saying/ your report and letting the machine record it would be better, but then, reorganizing and correcting would be harder in that format, I think... perhaps just /thinking/ your report and reorganizing it inside your head, then sending it off to the teacher's/boss's/manager's head when you're through... that's the ticket!). Use it for what it is good for, I guess, and don't try to get it to do something it isn't all that suited for.

Jon, in your trial use of the other guy's tablet pc, how well can you enter equations? I'm picturing it either being a blessing or a curse. Either it does really well and your handwriting turns into lovely, perfectly typed and formatted equations and text, or it can't tell what the hell you're trying to write because of your handwriting. Which is it in your case?

JM^3
25-04-2006, 05:55:58
It learns your handwriting. His handwriting was terrible, but it recognized his. It recognized what I did some too...

Jon Miller

Darkstar
25-04-2006, 19:02:11
The handwriting in Mobile is the exact same code as in Tablets (last I checked). So, it can't be worse due to the actual software. However, there is a difference in the hardware resolution for the PDA screens and the digital stylus. You have superior resolution with the digital stylus, and that's what makes the difference.

There are additional handwriting packages out there you can install on a PDA, or even tablet. Some people find that these packages works better for them. However, just a bit of time and tuning (basically teaching the device how you think you write. It will adjust its expectations to what you actually do on its own) is enough for most people to get good results. I found that I could write almost as fast in the basic Mobile's sanskripts/grafitti as I could with a normal pencil within just a few days.

Mobile PDAs are considered "Doctors Toys". And "Engineer Toys". And "Super Yuppie" Toys. Most people with a decent PDA will also have a lot more gadgets. So they fall into professional toys and therefore many vendors try to overprice them or their periphs and software.

There are a few PDAs that come with Linux. I hear mixed things about those. For instance, my father, who is a rebel linux user because he's a huge windows project lead (it's that teenager deal, he's never grown up), bought one and enjoyed playing with it. But he ended up selling that unit on ebay and buying a new Compaq PDA because the Linux unit just couldn't handle Windows Office adequately enough for his needs. That was a couple of years ago, but from what I hear, that's still a serious problem for the platform. Now, if you don't need or care about using Microsoft Office docs on your linux PDA, then it's a paradise for Linux coders and gnurus. Or so my Linux friends tell me, in between their multiple orgasms at being free of windows. ;)

The main thing I hear from power phone users is that it really sucks if you need to do more then just *eyeball* a web site. And there is still a lot of places that haven't gotten around to being small screen friendly. But those places suck to surf from a regular PDA so...

Foldout keyboards are useful if you need to do some serious text editing on a file on your PDA, but are still a few hours away from a big box. For instance, on a client's site.

I actually spent about about 11 months using my PDA in place of my Windows workstation, because my handheld was more then twice the machine as my assigned work machine. With a foldout keyboard and extra power supply, it was faster and did a better job. The only thing I couldn't do on it was build/compile code for windows 2000 on it, so I'd boost my source code back from the PDA to my workstation. It isn't what I'd recommend as a serious text editing platform, but with a keyboard, I'm only against it as a true text processing setup because the screen is so small I found it difficult to get a good overview of more then a short paragraph at a time. If I'd actually bothered to output my PDA to a full screen, then I'd not have had that problem, but to do that at the time, you'd need a projector/presenter, and that was a bit costly just to shame management into bumping me back into the upgrade list. At the time, I'd been bumped down the list so that our "sexual discrimation" and "racial discrimination" chronic screamer would be able to get her every 6 months upgrade (just like upper management and their personal secretaries, although the rest of us that were only getting upgraded once ever 24 months) and let our management avoid yet another investigation caused by her complaining she was being passed over because of sex/race.

Now, Microsoft itself doesn't allow you to compile directly on Mobile device (thus guaranteeing another Windows machine sale). But, Microsoft isn't the only compiler maker. There's plenty of decent compilers out there, and if you went Linux in the first place, then your PDA is just another linux box (one with a very tiny screen). And you can get linux compilers that run under Mobile. And that isn't counting all the other non-linux compilers that are available on the Mobile platform. What do you want to write in? C? C++? Pascal? Basic? Fourth? Cobol? Java? They are out there.

But--- if you want to write code to be used on a different platform, then I'd suggest you go big box (laptop/convertable, desktop, tower, yadda yadda blah). PDAs are getting better for large storage and speed, but they aren't to that point of being reasonable for something like that.

HelloKitty
25-04-2006, 19:12:46
Heh, the doctors I know don't consider the mobile PDAs to be toys. They consider them to be an annoying bane to their ability to practice medicine. :)

JM^3
26-04-2006, 09:44:12
One thing Darkstar, is that I know of no PDA that ahs the pen sensitivity of a tablet.. like different thicknesses of lines depends on how hard you 'press' and the like.

In fact, I beleive that no PDA has electromagnetic input, which means that the input is not as fine and precise as that of a tablet. The input to the P1510 is more like that of the PDAs, are it is not as good.

Jon Miller

Centara Fugue
26-04-2006, 17:03:35
Originally posted by Darkstar
However, there is a difference in the hardware resolution for the PDA screens and the digital stylus. You have superior resolution with the digital stylus, and that's what makes the difference.


You're just adding to and agreeing with what Dark was saying, yes?

When are you going to get it? Better get one that can play D&D Online, too, you silly dill. I'm about to try that one and if it's any good, I will keep trying it for a while.

Might go do the Guild Wars thing again sometime too, and I haven't tried WoW yet, but from what I have seen and heard, it gets it right in a lot of ways. My night elf might be mining in the near future (X-Play reference... the skit about WoW as a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game and Birth Control Device, for those other than JM who might not know... funny skit by the way, go find it on X-Play's website).

JM^3
26-04-2006, 18:17:08
There, but it is against his first proposal that PDAs are as good.

JM

Darkstar
26-04-2006, 20:52:43
You think I'm trying to steer you towards PDAs?

JM^3
27-04-2006, 03:13:33
I thought so at first.

JM

Darkstar
27-04-2006, 20:52:57
Sorry, didn't mean to communicate that at all. I think if you are going for a laptop, you should look at a "desktop replacement" quality system *or* a nice convertable. A desktop replacement will keep you gaming for a long while (and general computing forever), while a convertable will be able to be a "heavy" tablet and give you full laptop usability when you need it.

I was defending PDAs against the assertion that they can't do anything. They can do just about anything that any modern PC can do. It's just most users don't do much with them other then endless roll of paper (for making lists), and casual entertainment (games/reading/surfing web).