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Lazarus and the Gimp
17-12-2005, 09:08:02
Humphrys: Can I turn to another subject, fairly quickly, and that is freedom of speech. What's happened to it? Why have we lost it? Why can't a woman stand near Number 10 Downing Street and read out a list of names without being arrested?

Falconer: We have not. We have not. She was arrested, charged and convicted and I think given a conditional discharge.

Humphrys: Doesn't matter, she's got a criminal charge. She was not allowed to do something which Tony Blair himself has defended in the past. Let me read you what Mr Blair said:

"I pass protesters every day at Downing Street and believe me, you name it, they protest against it. I may not like what they call me but I thank God they can. That's called freedom."

We've lost that freedom.

Falconer: We have not lost that freedom.

Humphrys: We have. She cannot stand in Downing Street and read out a list of names.

Falconer: John. We've introduced the European Convention on Human Rights that preserves freedom of speech.

Humphrys: Tell that to the lady who's got a criminal conviction because she chose to stand outside Number 10 and read a list of names.

Falconer: There isn't a country in the world that doesn't take particular measures to protect its parliament.

Humphrys: We didn't have to do it in the past, why do we do it now? Is she threatening Parliament by standing there quietly and calmly reading out a list of names?

Falconer: No, of course she isn't.

Humphrys: And she's now got a criminal conviction.

Falconer: No, of course she's not threatening Parliament. But the question -

Humphrys: Then why has she got a criminal conviction?

Falconer: Because it was a sensible measure to avoid disorder around Parliament.

Humphrys: She was creating disorder? Standing there quietly reading out a list of names.

Falconer: Well, you describe that as depriving this country of freedom of speech which is hugely overdone.

Humphrys: Yes. I and many, many other people do. Like the woman who appeared on Radio Five Live, on this programme, she said something about she wasn't terribly keen on homosexual men adopting children - she got a call from the police.

Falconer: Well I don't know anything about that. Freedom of speech is alive and well in this country and you are -

Humphrys: So long as you don't exercise it near Parliament.

Falconer: Don't be ridiculous.

Humphrys: I'm not being ridiculous.

Falconer: You are. We are a country which couldn't be freer, in its press, in what people say -

Humphrys: So long as you don't want to exercise it near Parliament within one kilometre.

Falconer: The idea that you take a measure which is a public order measure, designed to protect our Parliament building as depriving people of freedom of speech is ridiculously overdone, if I may say so.

Humphrys: I shall bear that in mind next time I want to stand outside Parliament and read my newspaper aloud, possibly an editorial that somebody doesn't like.

Funko
18-12-2005, 14:58:53
Well done John Humphrys. :beer:

The Mad Monk
18-12-2005, 16:47:02
I can understand maintaining a cordon around your Parliament, but what the hell is that Radio Five Live thing about?

Lazarus and the Gimp
18-12-2005, 17:19:11
It's just a BBC radio station- news and live sport coverage. It's the channel I usually listen to.

KrazyHorse@home
18-12-2005, 18:10:00
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I can understand maintaining a cordon around your Parliament, but what the hell is that Radio Five Live thing about?

a) 10 Downing st is not Parliament; it's the PM's residence

b) A security cordon of 1 kilometer? Horseshit.

Lazarus and the Gimp
18-12-2005, 18:56:37
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
a) 10 Downing st is not Parliament; it's the PM's residence



It's within the 1KM cordon, and it is a Parliament building.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
18-12-2005, 20:15:52
I suppose it's part of the Bushization of Blair - don't face the critics by whatever means necessary, and take that as proof of your rightousness.

Cruddy
18-12-2005, 21:21:59
Lord Falconer shown to be a lying scheming shitbag.

Well, he's a politician. It figures.

R5L = my fave listening.

KrazyHorse@home
19-12-2005, 07:50:45
WTF is a security cordon of 1 km there for? In case somebody's packing a fucking nuke?

So fucking stupid.

That's an abuse of police powers is what that is.

Blech.

The Mad Monk
19-12-2005, 08:40:41
No, no, I meant saying something disagreeable on Radio Five Live.

Lazarus and the Gimp
19-12-2005, 09:04:30
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
WTF is a security cordon of 1 km there for? In case somebody's packing a fucking nuke?


It follows in the wake of a couple of incidents where organised protests in the vicinity of Parliament were used as a means to storm the buildings. Fox-hunt supporters stormed the Commons, and you had an incident where a bag of purple powder was thrown at (and hit) Blair on the floor of the Commons.

When you've also got the increasingly nutty "Fathers 4 Justice" launching their protests as well, it's only a matter of time before one of the following happens-

1- A protest in the vicinity of Parliament is used to carry out something rather nasty.

2- An overly-enthusiastic protester gets shot.

King_Ghidra
19-12-2005, 09:10:50
Friend of mine is lord falconer's personal private secretary or somesuch. non-stop fun.

Kitsuki
19-12-2005, 09:17:40
This all leads to such silliness as -

http://5thnovember.blogspot.com/2005/12/westminster-christmas-carols.html

Funko
19-12-2005, 09:21:24
:D

Nice, are you going?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
19-12-2005, 09:40:24
We have a ban of demonstrations in a 300m radius while parliament is in session.

However, a single person standing before a government office, even within a parliamentary exclusion zone, does not constitute a demonstration.

Funko
19-12-2005, 09:40:57
What was the list of names she was reading?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
19-12-2005, 09:43:23
Names of UK soldiers who died in Iraq, iirc.

Funko
19-12-2005, 09:49:20
Ah yes, that's right.

Clearly she's a terrorist.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
19-12-2005, 09:53:36
What if she had read the names of murdered Iraqis? Would she be a dead terrorist now?

Oerdin
19-12-2005, 09:55:25
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
I suppose it's part of the Bushization of Blair - don't face the critics by whatever means necessary, and take that as proof of your rightousness.

Exactly why Bush and the other high ranking members of his administration almost only give speeches on military bases or at private "clubs". They get to spout off their propaganda, rarely allow people to ask questions, and even when they do it is often questions they have had the reporters submite ahead of time. They hate being put on the spot and having to ask hard questions because they know in a direct debate they'd lose.

Of course there is also the fact that Bush is one of the worst public speakers out of any major politician in the western world. If forced to think on his feet he falls flat which is why he's done the fewest press confrences of any recent President and why he rarely does question and anwser time. One of the great things about the British system is the PM has to stand up and directly debate policy and anwser the questions of critics

Lazarus and the Gimp
19-12-2005, 09:56:12
Is the bone of contention the fact that there is the security cordon, or whether the policing was flawed?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
19-12-2005, 09:56:54
True. In fairness to Blair, he has to deal with reality during question time, at least.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
19-12-2005, 09:58:23
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Is the bone of contention the fact that there is the security cordon, or whether the policing was flawed?

A security gordon per se is no problem. Just that 1 km, the inclusion of individual statements in the banned avtivities and the sanctions are way inproportinate (or, if your prefer, unreasonable).

Funko
19-12-2005, 10:00:00
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Is the bone of contention the fact that there is the security cordon, or whether the policing was flawed?

I think the security cordon is a fair concept but it needs to be policed sensibly. This woman certainly shouldn't have been prosecuted.

Kitsuki
19-12-2005, 10:31:44
Originally posted by Funko
:D

Nice, are you going?

God no, just love that blog. Good tittle-tattle and amusing snippets...

JM^3
19-12-2005, 10:39:10
Originally posted by Kitsuki
tittle-tattle and amusing snippets...

do you actually use that language in everyday life?

JM

Kitsuki
19-12-2005, 10:44:55
Not so much tittle-tattle, but 'spose so.

King_Ghidra
19-12-2005, 10:57:02
great question JM :lol:

Kitsuki
19-12-2005, 10:58:22
Are "amusing" or "snipet" such odd words....? "Tittle-tattle" isnt that uncommon either.

Rodgers
19-12-2005, 11:18:58
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
It's just a BBC radio station- news and live sport coverage. It's the channel I usually listen to.


How come you heard the Humphrey's interview then? :confused:

Lazarus and the Gimp
19-12-2005, 11:59:43
Ahahahahahahaha! I read it on the internet!

Dyl Ulenspiegel
19-12-2005, 12:20:30
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
on the internet!

The Phrase of death. :gasmaske:

Resource Consumer
19-12-2005, 14:21:57
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
What if she had read the names of murdered Iraqis? Would she be a dead terrorist now?

No. But she would still be reciting the list.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
19-12-2005, 14:24:58
Doubt it. Too few known by name.

Resource Consumer
19-12-2005, 14:27:01
even by numbers it would take quite a while