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Sapient
07-12-2005, 13:57:27
Seen as how John is 25 years dead tomorrow I thought I would being this topical subject up and ask for your opinions on the man himself. Was it his music, or has his untimely death that created his legendary status?

Scabrous Birdseed
07-12-2005, 14:38:10
I'd say it was his success, which originally rested on his music but then KEPT-ON-GOING that made him legendary. If he'd trailed off after he stopped making good records (in about 1968) he'd be a fair-to-middling legend.

MattHiggs
07-12-2005, 14:50:50
I think he was a legend for his views and opinions also.

novacane
09-12-2005, 10:14:57
Whoa!!

The text underneath says "Give Peace A Chance"

Debaser
09-12-2005, 10:22:27
That's pretty hardcore (if a bit misguided).

Gramercy Riffs
09-12-2005, 10:24:25
He did his best to undo all his good work with his solo stuff, but the good stuff he did leave is enough for him to be a legend IMHO

Sapient
09-12-2005, 10:45:08
He didn't try to undo all his good work with his solo work, he thought that the stuff he did with the Beatles wasn't very good and he tried to improve on that and he thought his solo stuff was much better, and some of it was. He wasn't trying to be wacky and get away from the sugar coated Beatles image he was just trying to write better songs and music. In no way was he trying to undo his old work, just improve and grow from it.

Debaser
09-12-2005, 10:47:38
He deserves to be a legend for writing and co-writing some of the most popular and enduring music of the 20th century. So some of his solo stuff was rubbish, he was bound to get a bit self-indulgent because he was totally indulged... and some of it was great too. He may have been a bit of a hypocrit with some of his views and actions, and his legend status is purely for who he was as an artist, not as a person in my opinion, but to suggest that "..his untimely death ... created his legendary status" is absurd. He was joint main songwriter in The Beatles for fuck sake... he was a legend way before his death.

Resource Consumer
09-12-2005, 10:47:49
I thought a legend was supposed to be something that was not real or allegedly never happened...........

John Lennon was real enough

Debaser
09-12-2005, 10:50:03
Look RC, it says "Lennon Legend" on his best of album, and I for one believe pretty much everything I read.

King_Ghidra
09-12-2005, 10:51:47
i don't think his solo career should be dismissed in terms of his status. Imagine was a massively influential song/album that could alone have given someone a career.

As mr higgs said, lennon the man, the man of opinions and the symbol of the peace movement, is surely as powerful as lennon the writer of catchy pop hits

Sapient
09-12-2005, 10:54:05
Not really, I think a legend is anyone or anything whose fame promises to be enduring, even if the renown is created more by the media than anything else,

But a legend is also a romanticized or popularized myth of modern times according to the dictionary and John Lennon was certainly this, just look at stories and quotes about him they are all different and not many of them can be proved.

Resource Consumer
09-12-2005, 10:59:11
Originally posted by Debaser
Look RC, it says "Lennon Legend" on his best of album, and I for one believe pretty much everything I read.

I think that was the other meaning. Sort of like legend of a graph or a table.:)

Debaser
09-12-2005, 11:01:03
Originally posted by Sapient
just look at stories and quotes about him they are all different and not many of them can be proved.

Of course they can be proved (as much as anything ever can be). He was massively successful from a fairly young age, and probably up there with the most written about people of his generation. His every fucking move was documented. Even the FBI were watching him.

novacane
09-12-2005, 11:03:12
Whether he was a legend or not doesn't really matter. He left an incredible legacy which probably hasn't been surpassed in terms of quality IMO.

I don't really go along with the idea that he lost his way musically during the 70's. It was just progression. You either go with it or you don't. And plenty did. Either way, it can hardly tarnish what went before.

I would have liked to have known a world with John Lennon. Although, I am of the opinion that he would have probably become a complete recluse or some kind of Bob Geldolf-type guilt-tripping preacher guy.

Sapient
09-12-2005, 11:08:22
No, they cannot all be proved. Stories get twisted and hearsay comes into play, like the story how they first got stoned with Bob Dylan many different versions of this, and the alledged romance between John and Brian Epstein, loads of rumours about that one and who knows really about the getting stoned before they met the Queen, all legenday tales but nobody knows the truth behind them apart form the people involved, and John always changed his mind and stories to keep us guessing.

Debaser
09-12-2005, 11:23:29
This is a silly arguement, but you said "not many of them can be proved", and I dispute this. Ok a few can't, but many many more can.

Sapient
09-12-2005, 12:03:59
Alright, dispute my argument, but back up your views don't just dismis something as silly. Of course many more stories about John can be proved he was a famous bloke and we know a lot about him, but I am saying that the interesting and querky stories that we are interested in cannot be proved and this is what goes towards making John a legend. Not knowing what we really want to know about him.

Funko
09-12-2005, 12:06:54
I think he meant the argument (both sides) was silly not just your side.

Debaser
09-12-2005, 12:17:39
Yeah, I meant it's silly argueing over whether on not he smoked a spliff with Bob Dylan, 'cos that wasn't what made him great. I'm sure probably thousands of people have shared a spliff with Bob Dylan at one time or another, but only one person wrote Instant Karma.