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Nav
25-11-2005, 22:59:54
A review!

http://www.counterglow.com/article.php?id=civ4

Enjoy! (thanks Chris)

btw screenshots are on the large side!

notyoueither
26-11-2005, 07:41:12
Overall this is the finest example of this great franchise, finally surpassing Civ 2 as the best in the series.

:eek:

High praise, indeed.

Beta1
26-11-2005, 08:54:02
sounds good, I'll have to go and get it now.

Not that I have time to play though!

Funko
27-11-2005, 13:19:37
Nice review (and great screenshots).

shagnasty
27-11-2005, 15:38:42
I've not played any of the Civ games. How do they compare to the AoE series?

Venom
27-11-2005, 17:29:31
Looks like I don't have to review it now.

MattHiggs
27-11-2005, 18:49:43
Great review. I've played the game for weeks and I think it's spot on.

Tizzy
28-11-2005, 10:27:39
Originally posted by Venom
Looks like I don't have to review it now.

Damn you Chris, damn you!

Good review though :)

Chris
28-11-2005, 15:42:15
Glad everyone liked it.

I also found out Nav's real name is Percival Sweetwater, man that is gay.

Resource Consumer
28-11-2005, 16:34:23
Good review. I agree with the conclusions.

One nice thing that I like about it is that resources (or at least some of them) only become discoverable with a given technology so you no longer feel that you have to behave like a nomad to maximise the value of city one.

Also, the changes to the production system for settlers and workers custs down the ICS problems and makes the game more enjoyable for people who like fewer large cities

King_Ghidra
28-11-2005, 17:06:09
nice review, i shall attempt an illegal download forthwith

shagnasty
04-12-2005, 15:46:32
So is Civ 4 as good as AoE and AoM then or what?

Resource Consumer
05-12-2005, 10:42:25
it is different

Chris
05-12-2005, 18:53:06
Its a good game, some nice maps and scenarios should make it even better.

Vincent
21-12-2005, 16:35:53
It's for nerds

Funko
21-12-2005, 16:48:02
So you like it?

Resource Consumer
22-12-2005, 11:17:05
He liked SimGolf

Vincent
26-12-2005, 05:47:32
I'm too stupid for Civ

Colon
28-12-2005, 01:03:40
I'm too stingy to buy it and too lazy to rip it.

Tizzy
28-12-2005, 09:46:56
I got it for Christmas.
I haven't been allowed on the computer yet to play it though :(

Aredhran
28-12-2005, 09:59:47
:gotit:

Just kick him in the dingding and install the game

Funko
29-12-2005, 11:51:23
It's not my fault. It's work's fault.

Tizzy
29-12-2005, 11:55:25
I did manage to install it and have a quick look last night.
It's going to take a bit of getting used to, as it's been about 2 or 3 years since I last played a Civ game but it looks good.

Chris
30-12-2005, 00:43:21
Its fun Tiz, you can drift through the entire game before really understanding it.

Only now, after about a dozen games do I understand the value of state religions and missionaires, and matching them to the correct type of gov.

Greg W
30-12-2005, 01:50:23
Oh, Missionaries rock. Having an opponent with the same religion as you helps a lot in keeping them happy.

Oh, and Tizzy - even if it won't help you play the game more, kick him in the ding-ding anyway. :)

MDA
30-12-2005, 11:55:17
crap, went to pick this up yesterday and they were sold out.

Its a sign I should be playing more WoW.

Tizzy
30-12-2005, 16:11:43
Originally posted by Greg W
Oh, and Tizzy - even if it won't help you play the game more, kick him in the ding-ding anyway. :)

I'm still waiting for the wine for the last two, from now on it's payment upfront.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
30-12-2005, 20:49:58
Originally posted by MDA
crap, went to pick this up yesterday and they were sold out.

Its a sign I should be playing more WoW.

Two timer.

Greg W
30-12-2005, 21:25:43
Originally posted by Tizzy
I'm still waiting for the wine for the last two, from now on it's payment upfront. Hang on a sec shiela, this one was for personal pleasure, not so you could get another free bottle of wine out of me. On top of which, the payment was always going to be wine when I go to England. Don't go trying to change the deal now. :p

Funko
03-01-2006, 09:38:59
I have played 2 games so far have no idea what I'm doing really. Had a bit of a learning game on chieftan that I won easily. Then had a game on warlord that was a lot harder. Got stuck on one continent with 5 other computer players, guess who was stuck right in the middle. Was continuously at war for the entire game as one AI after the other invaded and was fought off, only for another AI to declare war straight after. I eventually lost to a space race to the Indians in about 2030, didn't mind so much because the Indians were the only ones I was friends with and who didn't invade me. :(

mr_G
03-01-2006, 22:27:08
Originally posted by Funko
Got stuck on one continent with 5 other computer players, guess who was stuck right in the middle. uuuuhh you?

Tizzy
04-01-2006, 09:58:41
Yay, schjmarte mrG!

I'm really enjoying Civ 4 too (when I get to play it that is). Still don't understand most of what I'm doing but I'll learn :)

MDA
04-01-2006, 11:40:48
Originally posted by Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
Two timer.

this from the guy who rerolled alliance* :)






*sort of

Drekkus
04-01-2006, 13:14:18
Originally posted by Venom
Looks like I don't have to review it now. You were supposed to review CoD II about a month ago!! :mad:

Venom
04-01-2006, 13:25:01
Yeah, but everyone voted for Civ4 instead. And that review was done. So I'll have to do something else. Maybe I'll review F.E.A.R

The Mad Monk
08-01-2006, 07:31:57
Yin ate his box on Apolyton.

MDA
09-01-2006, 14:19:47
Got it this weekend, built wonders, was cranking out culture and religion everywhere, then I decided the spanish needed to go away - although we had equal tech, they crushed me, even though I had amassed a force of longbowmen, catapults, and macemen I thought was strong enough to take one of their bigger cities and cripple them.

Attack failed miserably, about 5 turns later I lost a city with 2 wonders in it and they were advancing on my capital... :lol:

on the bright side I learned that catapults have a barrage attack in addition to bombard - I may replay that little war from the beginning and see if the barrage (hits all units in a sqare instead of attacking fortification level) helps.

Funko
09-01-2006, 14:27:49
Highlight the unit you want to attack with, press g and then mouse over the unit you want to attack. Gives you all the stats and bonuses and your percentage chance of winning. Makes battles a lot less down to guesswork.

I think the barrage ability comes in only if you make a normal attack with your catapult. I don't tend to use that because by the time I get catapults archers with City Defender are usually hard enough to beat a catapult and Longbowmen certainly are. Works better with tanks. Whatever you do, make sure you take out all the fortifications first. It really makes a difference. Also I put some defensive units (archers/longbowmen etc) in the stack so that they can garrison the captured city leaving your assault stack to continue conquering (once healed).

To successfully wage an offensive war you either need a slight tech superiority or massively superior numbers. If you can get elephants when he still only has archers you can kick some arse though.

Chris
10-01-2006, 03:02:11
Ships can also bombard costal cities.

Bombers are deadly in this game, if you get them, no city is safe no matter what its defenses.

HelloKitty
10-01-2006, 04:24:37
When you play the higher levels the AI uses many more fighters to take down your bombers, you need a big counter fighter group.

Funko
10-01-2006, 10:05:08
The AI is good at fighting in general.

MDA
10-01-2006, 11:44:49
started over as Egypt...

wow, I spread my religion to all my neighbor's cities and can now get away with just about anything I like, they love me!

once I got the "+100% growth in cities with your religion" civic, I pulled WAY ahead of my neighbors

I got 2 great people with the +4000 culture buff and used them both on a border city of mine, then started building any cultural stuff I could there - it paid off, my neighbor's border has pulled way back, and I absorbed a medium sized coastal city from him.

Haven't fired a shot in anger at anyone but barbarians yet :)

Funko
10-01-2006, 11:47:53
Excellent.

I love invading places. I'm rubbish at the religion thing yet. At the moment I'm in a protracted land war with Roosevelt. I captured 2 of his cities but underestimated how many units he had, he overwhelmed my attack force through pure weight of numbers (and at horrendous cost) but had enough to roll over two of my cities. I'm about to get totally renaissance on his arse.

Tizzy
10-01-2006, 11:54:40
Originally posted by MDA


I got 2 great people with the +4000 culture buff and used them both on a border city of mine, then started building any cultural stuff I could there - it paid off, my neighbor's border has pulled way back, and I absorbed a medium sized coastal city from him.


That's my favourite thing at the moment, I was trying to take over some cities that way in my last game until the Mongolians declared war on me and it all went horribly wrong.....

Funko
10-01-2006, 11:56:59
That was the same game as my game above but I'm still in it. :cute:

MoSe
10-01-2006, 12:06:18
do you two hotseat?

Tizzy
10-01-2006, 12:20:51
We decided having a hotseat game going was a good idea for when we both want to play at the same time :)

Funko
10-01-2006, 12:29:37
Hot Seat is fun.

Although the AI doesn't sulk if you decide to build the wonder they were going for. :nervous:

Tizzy
10-01-2006, 12:35:22
I think they do.
I'm sure "you stole the Hanging Gardens" must have caused some wars.

Funko
10-01-2006, 12:37:34
Maybe. If you had built it there it'd just have been captured by the Mongolians a few turns later anyway.

Anyway, that's the beauty of being able to build wonders 50% faster (and having better starting land). :D

Tizzy
10-01-2006, 12:42:10
I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky Barbarians :)

Funko
10-01-2006, 12:43:21
I still own four lovely Barbarian cities. :D Bargain.

Tizzy
10-01-2006, 12:44:54
I wanna go home and play now :cry:

Chris
10-01-2006, 16:32:42
Told ya, the game is pretty damn good.

Played it on the earth scenario, was difficult but fun.

The lag in the game appears to be all the animations in the late game, I found if I turned that stuff off I can play with max civs even with my 2 year old PC.

Funko
10-01-2006, 17:10:20
Yeah, it is really a lot of fun. Not sure about having to actually think to play it though. :D

Chris
10-01-2006, 17:36:51
The religion thing is easy.

If you discover a religion first, and see the _________ is discovered in __________ animation, that city can have a special religious wonder built.

For example, you discover Christianity, in the city named, if you send a great religious person, you can use him to construct 'The church of the nativity.'

Each religion has a wonder, they spread religion, and add to culture.

It you build the spiral minaret, all religious buildings of your state religion will produce coins.

You might be better off staying pagen until you have decent money, there is no upkeep at pagen.

HelloKitty
10-01-2006, 19:41:58
If you want to be the biggest financial power in the game play as a religous power and make a run for as many as you ca. Spread the hell out of them and and then set up the holy cities.

Addison3269
26-01-2006, 19:22:36
Originally posted by Chris
Its a good game, some nice maps and scenarios should make it even better.

Venom
26-01-2006, 19:38:22
This Addison fellow is a wise and fair man.

Caligastia
20-09-2006, 20:03:37
Does it take as long to get through a game as it did in CivII?

Chris
20-09-2006, 21:42:02
No, you can finish it in under 6 hours or less.

Funko
21-09-2006, 09:00:11
I've won on epic speed in 4 hours, and a conquest on marathon in under 6 hours.

Fistandantilus
21-09-2006, 09:53:14
Standard size map? Either I micromanage too much or I'm slow :(

Tizzy
21-09-2006, 10:03:24
I usually play either standard or large maps on epic. Funko gets frustrated with how slowly I play but even with that my games usually take around 7 hours.

Nav
21-09-2006, 10:08:44
Do you have a rota for the PC then, or do you fight for it each night?! ;)

Tizzy
21-09-2006, 10:16:56
Every weekend we have a "discussion" about whose turn it is, usually involving the phrases "it's my computer" and "but it's my game" :D

JM^3
21-09-2006, 10:37:02
I am disappointed that said discussion doesn't include boots..

JM

Funko
21-09-2006, 11:47:10
Originally posted by Fistandantilus
Standard size map? Either I micromanage too much or I'm slow :(

The marathon win was on a small map.

I am really bad at micromanaging which is why I'm struggling with monarch.

Caligastia
21-09-2006, 16:35:23
Originally posted by Chris
No, you can finish it in under 6 hours or less.

I'm buying it then.:)

I may have to turn off some of the fancy stuff though. My hardware specs are only just over what is recommended for the game.

JM^3
21-09-2006, 16:46:16
Mine are below and it plays fine on Standard or Smaller maps.

Jon Miller
(OK, poor late game Standard.. but what do you expect?)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
21-09-2006, 16:55:28
Originally posted by Funko
I've won on epic speed in 4 hours, and a conquest on marathon in under 6 hours.

Ha, well, we'll have to see how you stack up against my port of Civ to the ultimate in gaming environments, Microsoft Excel!

No, this is not a joke. It's about 10% complete right now, one week into the project. Fun as hell, too.

Chris
21-09-2006, 17:05:54
Originally posted by Caligastia
I'm buying it then.:)

I may have to turn off some of the fancy stuff though. My hardware specs are only just over what is recommended for the game. Play on small maps and you don't have to cut anything, the lag comes late in the game with many cities and units all being animated.

Caligastia
21-09-2006, 17:56:01
That'll be good for the first couple of learning games, but I'll want to play on large maps at some point. When that time comes I'll turn some things off.

Chris
25-09-2006, 01:00:15
Get it and we can MP Rich, its a lot of fun.

Caligastia
25-09-2006, 16:20:43
I plan on getting it. The wifey is going on a week-long business trip sometime in November, so I'll be able to spend some decent time on it then.

Caligastia
26-09-2006, 18:14:54
Ok, I just bought it. I'll load it up tonight when I get home. Woohoo!:bounce:

Tizzy
27-09-2006, 08:21:23
Say goodbye to your life as you know it :D

Caligastia
27-09-2006, 16:20:47
I managed to cut myself off after a couple of hours last night. I'll be ok..;)

Funko
02-10-2006, 10:03:02
Got my first win on Monarch at the weekend.

I wanted a quick game and something a bit easier than normal, (I'm really getting my arse kicked on Monarch) so I went for a tiny map with 2 other civs. Random leader turned up Augustus Ceasar! AHA! Never played the Romans before :eek: (unlucky randomness) anyway, despite forgetting for a while that I had Praetorians and not beelining for iron like I should have... I soon found out why people say the Praetorians are overpowered, I managed a domination victory in like 1400 ad and my Praetorians had been useful from ancient times right up until the end when the enemy had musketmen and knights. I got my highest ever score, 64k or so.

I'm really enjoying playing on small maps with few civs. I find the end game a bit boring and on tiny/small maps it's usually all over by the time you get cavalry.

Tau Ceti
02-10-2006, 11:55:53
Militarily, the medieval is clearly the most interesting period, being the only one (along with classical to some extent) where there is real variety in unit selection. Particularly good is the presence of units that are quite weak against everything except their preferred targets, which are among the strongest in general (crossbowmen vs. macemen and pikemen vs. knights). Later in the game there is pretty much only one unit per role.

Praetorians will beat anything except axemen fortified in cities or on good defensive terrain, making them pretty untouchable; the first reliable counter comes with crossbowmen at Machinery, which can hardly be rushed to. The AIs usually don't build many axemen, making conquest rather easy unless you go up against walled cities on hills. But even a human player would struggle, as you can't go on the offensive against Praetorians; you have to wait until they die by attacking you. Giving them strength 7 and keeping the usual swordsman 10% city attack bonus (which Praetorians do not get) might be more balanced.

Augustus is an early game expansion monster too, and turns into a mid-game assimilation monster with cheap theatres and courthouses.

I am getting a decent win percentage at Emperor now, but it is highly dependent on starting location. Get a gold mine at your capital and you are set. Being a builder, I still enjoy life in splendid isolation on my Snaky Continents.

Funko
02-10-2006, 12:03:15
I found the step up to prince just as daunting as the step up from prince to monarch, so hopefully I'll adjust. I'm just way too sloppy and don't micro enough.

My main problem on monarch is the massive jump in maintenance costs. Organised just becomes a better and better trait the further you go. I'm also really coming to appreciate Creative on the higher difficulties, and especially on marathon. Now the cost in terms of lost military/useful production of building a monument/library/theatre in a captured city is really painful. Spiritual is another one that is massively more useful at the higher difficulties.

I think I'll stick to random leaders though.

Tau Ceti
02-10-2006, 12:44:18
Do you ever actually build those culture generators in captured cities? I tend to slave them in on the first turn after the city comes out of revolt. Usually there are 4-6 unhappy citizens and widespread starvation anyway, so there is no real loss.

Yes, organised really shines at high difficulties. On Emperor you start going bankrupt after your fourth city. The double impact of lower civic upkeep and cheap courthouses is huge. With Augustus I suspect (never having been dealt him to try) that you can almost keep up with the computer players' expansion.

Does anarchy time depend on difficulty level? I have not noticed it much, but then I never played lower than Prince, and only there for a few games. It seems rather similar between Monarch and Emperor, though the time was increased between 1.52 and 1.61. And losing two turns for making two civic changes does indeed hurt.

Funko
02-10-2006, 12:51:52
I am really terrible at sending defensive units with my attacking forces. It's a major weakness, especially in the medieval ages when you actually need to send them. So normally I whip longbowmen or something. There are also times when I'm not running slavery and haven't got to Universal Sufferage, although that's quite rare these days. Once I've capured 2 cities, I've got no archers left and have to start garrisoning with attacking units so my attack slows down.

Anarchy might depend on gamespeed. On marathon/monarch you can lose 3 turns just changing one civic. I've lost 5 turns on 2 civic changes.

Tau Ceti
02-10-2006, 13:02:51
I have the same problem. :lol: The trouble is that each longbowman means one less maceman (well, 5/8ths of a maceman) or trebuchet built, or additional time your enemy goes unmolested. I have taken to building the attack force first, then switching to longbowmen after war is declared and sending them as a trickle of reinforcements. It means my initial attacking stack needs to take very few losses, but with trebuchets that is usually possible. It was not with catapults.

Anarchy certainly depends on game speed, but I would not expect it to be relatively worse - if anything, losing three turns on marathon should hurt less than losing one turn on standard (or quick!). Though I only play standard speed...

Funko
02-10-2006, 13:07:16
Unit production is relatively faster on marathon, so if you are fighting/preparing for war, the anarchy can be really painful. If you're in a building phase, it's less so. Standard is definitely better for builders, but if you like a fight, marathon all the way!

Funko
02-10-2006, 13:45:10
BTW, you might be interested in this. Blake (at the other place) has been making some AI improvements with the SDK, I haven't installed it as a mod yet (at the moment it's Vanilla only), but I'm watching what he's doing with great interest and looking forward to the warlords version:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157780&perpage=50&pagenumber=1

Caligastia
02-10-2006, 14:51:18
Originally posted by Funko
I soon found out why people say the Praetorians are overpowered

I discovered the same yesterday. They kick major ass. I'm well on the way to dominating my continent.

Tau Ceti
02-10-2006, 15:24:34
Originally posted by Funko
BTW, you might be interested in this. Yes, I have been looking at it. Quite interesting, but I liked the early stuff better than what he seems to be doing now. I am mostly convinced his city placement algorithm is an improvement, although it may lead to the founding of some rather poor cities - one clam is not in itself enough for a decent city. The newer stuff is about changing things to make the AIs play in his style - and he has somewhat bombastic opinions. But it is certainly an interesting experiment.

Funko
02-10-2006, 15:29:16
Yes, it's good to see people actually using the SDK for real improvements. The city placement one was certainly very interesting. The AI regularly whipping out units to help defend would make life harder!

Funko
01-11-2006, 15:59:41
Patch for warlords released, includes some of Blake's AI improvements as mentioned above as well as many gameplay improvements and nerfing of a lot of popular exploits eg. Civil Service slingshot.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/civilizationivwarlords/patch/9470.html

Funko
01-11-2006, 16:00:04
Fix List:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159018