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Asher
14-04-2002, 22:57:08
Good God this game rules.

It's like Diablo, but in 3D and with a way better party system.

Does anyone else have it? We must do multiplayer. I haven't had this much fun in a while. :)

Check out some online reviews and screenshots.

Mightytree
14-04-2002, 23:21:58
I haven't bought it ... and I probably won't either.

The simple fact that your MP char data is stored on your own HD is reason enough I won't touch this game. They copied so much from Diablo they should have known that this basically kills MP. It's cheater's heaven. It killed Diablo 1 MP and it will kill DS MP. And there are other MP things I've read about that I couldn't believe at all. What is it with things like completed quests, way points not being saved in MP? Why is there no mule in MP like in SP?

Sorry, but that's super stupid. SP will keep you (me) interested in the game for maybe a week or two and MP is total crap. I'm not going to spend 50 EUR for a week of fun. That game had the potential to be a D2 killer but instead it's just a joke. All it does is look good. I'm disappointed.

Asher
14-04-2002, 23:48:54
I have absolutely no problem with not having a Realms-esque MP system. In fact, I absolutely hated D2 Realms. Blizzard f*cked over my character once because they thought I had cheat items (GRRRRR).

I played D2 via TCP/IP game with a group of people I've been playing online games with for about five years. None of us cheat, and we know we don't cheat since we always play together in the same games so we can watch character progression.

We're doing the same thing with Dungeon Siege now, so not having a Realms-based server is like not having 18 inch wheels on the icecream truck. It's useless to me anyway. :D

Realms were also laggy and had a tendany to go down. Not so with TCP/IP games.

I haven't played any MP yet in DS, so I can't talk about the quest system and stuff. But it does sound stupid not to save quest data in MP games, or waypoints. A bit too stupid. Surely Taylor wouldn't have done that?

Mightytree
14-04-2002, 23:59:19
I can only tell you what I've read on some DS boards. People there were very disappointed about the MP part of the game. The ones that were positive about it (DS in general) were either SP only players or just hadn't tried MP yet, just like you. The problems I mentioned here are only those I can recall off the top of my head, there are probably more I don't remember now.

It's a pity. I was really looking forward to DS. :(

Asher
15-04-2002, 00:00:39
I did some research and I can't find anything to back up what you said about not saving quests/waypoints in MP.

Gamespot's review says of Multiplayer:
In addition to the single-player campaign, which can be played in cooperative multiplayer mode, there's also a separate gaming world designed primarily for multiplayer sessions. You can play that setting solo by just starting a multiplayer game alone, but you're only able to play one character in multiplayer games. As a result of that restriction, the game plays quite differently, since you don't have access to a pack mule and are likely to be less tolerant of the disparity in the relative utility of the different class abilities. Since you can't "autoshare" loot and experience points, it's frustrating to be burdened with a character that's incapable of getting a fair share of the conquests. Exacerbating those problems, multiplayer games can quickly devolve into frenzied sessions where everyone is trying to kill as many monsters as possible without working together in any meaningful way.

GameSpy's review says:
Of course, once the single-player quest is completed, and the land saved from evil (not to mention the giant horde of gold you'll have acquired), you can take part in the robust multiplayer mode. You could go through the single-player adventure again as a cooperative experience, but there is also an additional larger multiplayer map as well. The balance is certainly there to make it challenging and offer enough for even a full-bodied party, but the biggest downside is that it is sometimes hard to share the wealth. Some players may end up with more experience points and will level quicker, depending on style of play, which just means they could begin to outshine you, but as long as everyone tries to be fair this shouldn't be too consuming of an issue. Team play will probably take shape more for those looking to be part of a team, so that is really left to whom you decide to head out with in the game.

Mightytree
15-04-2002, 00:02:45
I read that on a German DS board. 90% of the people there were very angry about MP so I don't think it's just a dumb rumor.

Mightytree
15-04-2002, 00:06:24
Maybe, instead of 'doing research, you should just play some MP. ;)

Asher
15-04-2002, 00:08:17
None of my friends have it yet. :)

I did find a new review of it though:
The only caveat for the multiplayer aspect is the fact that you can't save the game. When you exit a multiplayer game, everything is gone except for your character. Quests you've completed or were working on are lost, teleporters you've triggered forget who you are and where you've been and of course anything you left lying on the ground is lost forever. Gas Powered Games says the lack of a multiplayer save was due to time constraints, so we can reasonably expect this functionality in a patch.

:(

I really wish they didn't rush things out the door.

Asher
15-04-2002, 00:11:25
I hope by some miracle they release a MP Save patch/hack before I tired of the single player mode. Right now SP is simply amazing. :)

Check out this screenshot...
http://dsvault.ign.com/images/news/DS0018.jpg

This has so much potential.

Funkodrom
15-04-2002, 08:48:35
Apparently LadyRachel and Shining1 played a session of this for 11.51 hours the other day. :hmm: They would probably respond to the thread if they weren't playing. :D

The Mad Monk
15-04-2002, 14:04:13
Are you sure about that .01?

Funkodrom
15-04-2002, 14:05:19
That's what it said in the message I got. :) Apparently the game tells you how long you've been playing.

The Mad Monk
15-04-2002, 14:09:13
Cool. :)

Venom
15-04-2002, 20:24:33
Originally posted by MikeH
That's what it said in the message I got. :) Apparently the game tells you how long you've been playing.

I hate games that remind me how much of my life I'm wasting.

Sean
15-04-2002, 20:29:43
My CM01/02 Addictidness Rating is remember to wash. 2 days, 23 hours, 42 minutes, and 38 seconds.

Shining1
18-04-2002, 09:52:30
I'll do a review next week (with some comments from Rachel).

Safe enough to say that after 12:00 or so of MP, me as a Fighter/Combat mage, her as an Archer/Nature mage, we were seperated by less than 25% kills.

So the game seems relatively balanced as far as MP styles are. The lack of a mule doesn't matter at all, and yeah, the lack of Realms is a bit of a pain for general MP - but then again, if you have enough friends online, you can get around this.


Asher: You HAD duped items. It's very easy to tell, each item has it's own unique ID number generated when it drops.

During the duping madness of D1, the Legit Hackers developed character scanners to look at what items other characters who joined the game had. Duped items were easy to spot since all the scanner had to do was log the ID number and type of the items.

So there is about a one in a billion/trillion/etc chance that the items deleted were NOT duped.

Funkodrom
18-04-2002, 09:54:17
Ah yes, comments from Rachel. "You spelt that wrong...", "you spelt that wrong as well..." OK maybe that's just 'cause I spell so many things wrong. ;)

Herman
18-04-2002, 17:41:02
Interesting.

Damn typos.

Mightytree
19-04-2002, 10:04:56
There's a demo out now btw.

Mightytree
19-04-2002, 11:35:01
Ok, I downloaded the demo. I played for about 15 minutes then got bored. What's the fun when you click on a monster and then watch your guy fight. I mean, that's like Progress Quest with a 3D engine, just worse.

The graphics are good but not quite as spectacular as I thought. It looks like Ultima 9 and that's 3 years old.

Shining1
20-04-2002, 03:33:29
MT: As opposed to D2 where the whole game depends on the strength and fitness of your index finger?:)

Personally, I vastly prefer DS's single player mechanics over Diablo2s. You get the best aspects from both Diablo2 and Baldur's Gate 2 in it. The storyline is a bit Chris Taylorish, this is true, but then again, if Diablo2 can get by, so can Dungeon Siege.

I haven't seen the demo, though, it might be entirely crap.


Heh heh. Yeah, and as for people posting online about how bad the MP is - that's a biased sample. Everyone who likes the MP is playing it, not posting about it online, after all;).

Sirius Black
20-04-2002, 03:41:38
I'm playing the demo.

It is like Diablo... but you control a party. That gets unwieldy and thankfully you can pause, but the combat has much less strategy than say Baldur's Gate.

It almost seems like an interactive movie, sometimes. A lot of the game (with a party) you watch the fighting until it is over. Some of it can be interesting, and there are some quests.

The graphics are great, and there is no loading between levels... which is utterly amazing.

All in all, enjoyable for a bit, but not worth $50.

For some reason it can be frustrating and somewhat fun at the same time... but the frustration gets me. I'd rather wait for Morrowind.

Mightytree
20-04-2002, 09:40:00
Originally posted by Shining1
MT: As opposed to D2 where the whole game depends on the strength and fitness of your index finger?:)

But in D2 I actually do something while I fight. In DS I click once and then I can watch my char fight ... I could probably get a coffee while he does that.

Originally posted by Shining1
Personally, I vastly prefer DS's single player mechanics over Diablo2s. You get the best aspects from both Diablo2 and Baldur's Gate 2 in it. The storyline is a bit Chris Taylorish, this is true, but then again, if Diablo2 can get by, so can Dungeon Siege.

I never really liked BG2. It basically has the same combat system - click and see what happens. I found it :sleep: back then and I still find it :sleep: now. And who cares about single player anyway ... you have a week of fun with it and then you turn to MP. Could as well leave out the SP part at all.

Originally posted by Shining1
Heh heh. Yeah, and as for people posting online about how bad the MP is - that's a biased sample. Everyone who likes the MP is playing it, not posting about it online, after all;).

Yeah ...

:rolleyes:

Shining1
20-04-2002, 09:56:08
You can go and make coffee during SOME fights. The interesting stuff is just as challenging as any BG2 dragon or Diablo2 Prime Evil.

For instance...

1. See Monster
2. Target with bow for two or three shots as Monster charges.
3. Switch to combat magic Flame for initial engagement.
4. Switch to Melee when Mana runs out.
5. Heal.
6. Repeat as needed.


The playing style is essentially the one you choose. You can be as proactive or as observational as you want, and once you get a party of 5-6 individuals, playing the game without the pause key gets very intense indeed...

Granted, I've had a lot more than 12 hours to get used to it;). But I really can't see "I don't get to click on things often enough" as being a fair enough reason to dis the game.

Mightytree
20-04-2002, 10:39:17
That may sound dumb ... but the fact that D2 makes me 'click on things more often' makes it way more fun than DS. IMHO it is a fair reason to dis the game.

You know, either they make a Diablo style game with Diablo-like action without much strategy or story, or you make a BG2 style game, that has a bit more strategy involved / is a real RPG / has a real story. For me they put exactly the wrong components of BG2 and D2 together ... no story / RPGing plus strategic, slow combat.

Either a fast, action packed hack-n-slay like Diablo or a RPG like BG2.

And then there's always the thing with the (IMHO) fucked up MP part in DS.

Herman
20-04-2002, 21:12:51
Originally posted by Mightytree
But in D2 I actually do something while I fight. In DS I click once and then I can watch my char fight ... I could probably get a coffee while he does that.
You don't seem to understand one of the fundamental differences between DS and D2.
In D2, you could click click click until you needed a new mouse because you only controlled one person.
I'm controlling 8 characters in DS, it's literally impossible to do your clickety-click-clicks when you've got 8 people manuevering around.

It sounds like somebody went into the game already biased and didn't play far enough to see why some of the things work like they do. :hmm:

Herman
20-04-2002, 21:14:37
And I've played multiple multiplayer games right now and I have no major gripes with it -- my friends and I are having a blast playing it into the late-night hours.

Sean
20-04-2002, 21:17:21
Sounds like Mt doesn’t like strategy games either.

Mightytree
21-04-2002, 00:44:26
Originally posted by Herman

You don't seem to understand one of the fundamental differences between DS and D2.
In D2, you could click click click until you needed a new mouse because you only controlled one person.
I'm controlling 8 characters in DS, it's literally impossible to do your clickety-click-clicks when you've got 8 people manuevering around.

It sounds like somebody went into the game already biased and didn't play far enough to see why some of the things work like they do. :hmm:

Oh, I do understand this fundamental difference. The combat system DS uses is the same BG2 used. You control a couple of chars, assign them a couple of commands, watch them fight and get a cup of coffee while they do that. Great. I found that boring in BG2 and I find it boring in DS. And all of that without an interesting story.

Sounds like someone doesn't like it when one criticizes his game.

Sean ... your point being? What does that have to do with strategy games? Don't tell me DS requires a lot of strategic thinking. Please. :rolleyes:

MDA
21-04-2002, 18:39:32
Originally posted by Mightytree


Oh, I do understand this fundamental difference. The combat system DS uses is the same BG2 used. You control a couple of chars, assign them a couple of commands, watch them fight and get a cup of coffee while they do that.

If I don't pause when I go to get my coffee, I come back to a bunch of dead characters. Its like Diablo2, only you click, unpause, pause, click more. See, you wear out your mouse button and the space bar!

I like BG games slightly better because they're a little slower than Diablo2. Smashing everything in sight in D2 is great for a short while, but then I need to rest and recover physically.

Shining1
24-04-2002, 02:36:42
There aren't many fights later in the game where you are 'idle'. But it's not quite like BG2 where you have to pause every split second during the big fights in case someone is a centimeter out of their ground and going to die.

Mightytree, you suck:D.

King_Ghidra
29-04-2002, 13:17:26
Originally posted by Sean
My CM01/02 Addictidness Rating is remember to wash. 2 days, 23 hours, 42 minutes, and 38 seconds.

I had 'remember to feed the dog' after three days, i think.

Now I'm on 'remember to go to work' after 100 odd hours of play time. :)

Sean
29-04-2002, 17:16:29
I haven’t been able to play in ages :(.