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The Mad Monk
20-09-2005, 15:10:03
...which has NWN, SoU and HotU, fully patched (to 1.63) and a smattering of other stuff.

I have a few questions:

How important is the 1.66 patch?

Are HakPaks really all that?

How persistant are items in this game? I'm sure it has some way to "clean the floors", but things don't seem to go *poof* the way they do in DII and Icewind Dale.

How do you stay neutral without being blatantly evil? I could understand receiving "good points" for escorting people to safety without pay, but receiving them for honoring a contract I am being well paid for is...confusing. I won't even get into the three points my character just received for beng polite.

Fun game so far!

Oh yeah -- I own a tavern now. :)

Sir Penguin
20-09-2005, 16:46:33
Updating to 1.66 is good. It fixes a bunch of gameplay issues, and it removes the CD copy protection check from the main executable (so you don't have to have the CD in the drive to play). The only reason not to update is if you play on a multiplayer server that doesn't support 1.66 yet.

Hakpaks just hold module data that needs to be shared between modules (like tilesets, scripts, custom items, etc.). You don't need to install any for the Bioware campaigns, but if you start on a third-party module (which you should, there are some excellent ones out there), they'll probably need hakpaks installed. They're not hard to deal with at all, but they tend to take up a lot of space. If you're just playing the OC though, they won't be of any use.

On the other hand, I highly recommend downloading and installing the Hechman Inventory & Battle AI mod if you haven't. It overwrites the Bioware AI for your henchmen and for the bad guys, making it much more sensible and less frustrating. The latest version needs patch 1.66.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=hakpaks.Detail&id=4510

I'm not sure how persistent objects are, but I think they're fairly persistent. At least in buildings and such. If you drop a plot item, it will be sent to the pool of water in the Temple of Tyr, but I'm not sure if regular items stay where you put them (I think they do though). Of course, they're lost between chapters.

The alignment system isn't very well-thought-out in the OC. For one thing, you can't even get points on the law/chaos axis. SoU rectifies the problem somewhat. I think the Aielund Saga modules deal with alignment well.

SP

MDA
20-09-2005, 18:09:46
yeah, the alignment stuff is all very dependent on the module designer

TMM, are you in a persistent universe, then? Didn't know they had those worked out completely.

JM^3
20-09-2005, 19:04:11
a great game..

I always think about going back

JM

Sir Penguin
20-09-2005, 23:12:14
Originally posted by MDA
TMM, are you in a persistent universe, then? Didn't know they had those worked out completely.
I assumed he was talking about SP persistence. There are several persistent worlds that are excellent. But they tend not to be persistent in terms of drops. Nearly everything goes back to square one when the server is reset. Your character's posessions aren't usually reset, and in some PWs you can get special persistent containers whose contents are carried over resets.

SP

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 00:30:41
Yeah, SP answered the question (thanks!), so that means I can probably offload in a convenient spot safely, as long as I remember to come back before the next chapter.

I'm definately getting that henchman mod.

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 00:36:11
The evil monk is creepy, yet too kickass to leave behind.

I took out the intellect devourer with my F2R2W1 character, but only because Grimgnaw did all the fighting.

MDA
21-09-2005, 03:43:47
I always thought that the devourer is one of the hardest fights in the game. Helps to have clarity potions, but even then you have to find a way to hurt it.

Grimgnaw would be a good way to do that :)

HelloKitty
21-09-2005, 03:56:56
My recommendation, do not play the original campaign. You will come to be super bored with the game.

Start playing the SOU then right into HOTU.

The original is dull and basicly could be renamed "Sim chest opener"

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 04:18:29
Duly noted. :)

As for the fight, all I did was plink arrows with a magic longbow (for all the good it did) when I wasn't throwing cure pots at Grim -- or downing them myself.

Winning that fight was the second happiest thing to happen in the game so far -- finding a quarterstaff+1 was the icing on the cake.

Sir Penguin
21-09-2005, 04:38:56
I've never had a problem with the Intellect Devourer. It's definitely a long fight, but I'm usually high enough level by then that it can't hit me very often, so I just let it attack me as it will, while Tomi sneak attacks it from afar.

2FTR/2RGR/1WIZ has got to be the worst class combination ever. ;)

SP

JM^3
21-09-2005, 04:39:12
I never played any official campaigns..

but I played many many hours

(I also never played on any persistant worlds)

JM

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 04:47:11
Question about crafting -- I have 5 ranks in craft weapon, and I have been collecting bones and hides from monsters, but I haven't seen so much as a splinter of oak or elm, or a filing of iron.

I have been smashing things. Lots and lots of things.

What am I doing wrong?

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 04:52:05
2FTR/2RGR/1WIZ has got to be the worst class combination ever. ;)

Own Goal. :p

The end result will hopefully be something like 4-6FTR/3-6ROG/somedamnhighnumberWIZ

Sir Penguin
21-09-2005, 04:52:43
Smashing things doesn't produce materials. Materials are drops, just like everything else. I don't know where to get them though, I've never done crafting.

Speaking of which, another thing I recommend doing is finding the smith who will make magical weapons for you. I think they cost around 500 GP each, and you need a particular raw material and an enchanted version of the weapon you want him to make. By the time I was ~level 5 or 6, I had both my rapier and short sword made by the guy, and now, at level 13 (just at the end of chapter 2), I'm still using the same weapons.

SP

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 04:58:04
Yep, I found him, but he's little help to me -- unless there's a secret quarterstaff or bow/'crossbow recipe I haven't heard about. :(

Yeah, I know, but it's a roleplaying issue. I envisioned this character as a staff swinger, and intend to carry through, in spite of the creators screwing up ITS FRIKKEN DOUBLE WEAPON STATUS.

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 05:05:21
Smashing things doesn't produce materials.

According to the manual it is:

"Materials for crafting can generally be found by bashing doors, chests, and other objects. Material components only spawn-in once the object is destroyed and only when the person bashing the object has at least five ranks in a crafting skill. Characters with less than five ranks simply do not have enough skill to salvage any useful materials from the destroyed object."

The next page notes what specific objects to bash for specific components.

I should be buried in oak planks by now. :hmm:

Did you ever recover large bones form skeletons, or leather hide from dogs?

Sir Penguin
21-09-2005, 05:05:45
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Own Goal. :p

The end result will hopefully be something like 4-6FTR/3-6ROG/somedamnhighnumberWIZ
Rogue is slightly better than ranger, but you only get up to about level 16-18 in the OC anyway, so by the time you reach the climax, you'll have a character who can do a lot of different stuff very poorly. Even if you take the same character through all three campaigns, you've essentially wasted 20-30% of your levels on stuff that's not useful to you (except for survival in chapter 1, which is what henchmen are for). Of course, that's not considering roleplaying, but if you're roleplaying in a single player game, you have other problems.

SP

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 05:07:39
I post here, don't I?

Sir Penguin
21-09-2005, 05:07:51
Fair enough, I never had a high enough craft rank to find that out. The Aielund saga lets you buy crafting materials.

SP

Sir Penguin
21-09-2005, 05:09:25
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I post here, don't I?
Link?

SP

The Mad Monk
21-09-2005, 05:12:01
Zelda?

JM^3
21-09-2005, 06:36:26
not all modules have the loot tables for crafting

I think that the OC, as it came before crafting was added to the game, doesn't have the proper loot tables

JM

HelloKitty
21-09-2005, 16:51:12
The original game has only NPC crafting where you hand someoen components and they make it, I don't think crafting was added until HoTU.

As for insane power combos,

lvl 1 plate wearing class, rest of the levels in Wizard or Sorc. Take "still spell" as early as you can, and you will just be one spell level behind what you could normally cast (i.e. you can use lvl 3 spells when you could normally use lvl 4). But you can cast while wearing any armour with any sheild and if you take fighter and then exotic weps, any wep. Then after level 20 you can take automatic still spell and cast jsut like any other wizzy can but wear full plate etc.

A Wizard with an 80 AC is kind of crazy.


Or you can just play a cleric/anything and be overpowered.

The Mad Monk
22-09-2005, 13:56:30
I didn't take Rogue for survival, I took it for convenience.

When you start as a rogue with 15-16 intelligence, you start with 44 to 48 skill points, which you can pile right into useful stuff like persuade, tumble, and appraise. :)

...and the evasion feat you gain at second level ain't too shabby, either.

HelloKitty
22-09-2005, 17:21:21
Yeah but as a wizard with a high int I usually had enough skill poiints left over to put into open lock and disarm trap that I was over the DC. I thought about adding rogue, but there wasn't much point. :p

The Mad Monk
23-09-2005, 02:44:12
Who said anything about picking locks or disarming traps? That's what knock spells and pixie familiars are for. :)

Nothing quite like tripping a lethal flame trap and taking no damage. :)

The Mad Monk
23-09-2005, 03:07:58
BTW, I read somewhere that you can encourage the henchmen to multiclass, but now I can't find anything about it. Any idea how to do it?

Sir Penguin
23-09-2005, 03:49:15
Start playing SoU.

SP

Oerdin
23-09-2005, 06:09:16
I bought the platnium set as well. I previously bought the original NWN and beat it but then I never bought the two expansion pacts. Last December it was cheaper to buy the platnium set then to buy the two expansions on their own.

I've beaten HotU but I've never actually played beyond the first chapter of SoU.

Sir Penguin
23-09-2005, 15:27:09
There isn't much to SoU, you didn't miss anything.

SP

HelloKitty
23-09-2005, 16:31:30
Try playing the A Harper's Tale series. It is well done and won some stupid awards.

The huge Temple of Elemental Evil module is buggy, but insane in scope and detail. It also scales to your level so you don't have to start at lvl 1 to play it.

Sir Penguin
23-09-2005, 18:55:31
Much like the Temple of Elemental Evil game.

SP

HelloKitty
23-09-2005, 19:25:25
No, that game is buggy as Venom's pubic hair. Fucking atari making an awesome turn based system and completely ruining it with bugs.

I hope NWN 2 allows solo play parties and turn based like in TOEE.


The NWN version is of a completely different scale and scope.

The Mad Monk
29-09-2005, 01:18:48
I restarted Morganna, because I never used the points I put into parry or crafting, which annoyed me, and because I thought the feat slot I spent on improved initiative would be better spent elsewhere. It took me a couple days to get past where I was, and it seems I made the right choices.

Just finished chapter one of the original campaign at FTR2/ROG3/WIZ4, and about 35Kxp. Should I expect the same xp in the other chapters, or does it slack off? She picked up a second attack when she hit ninth level (WIZ4), which dosen't seem to follow the rules...

Flame weapon looks supercool on a quarterstaff.

Attacks of opportunity that trigger a sneak attack that triggers a cleave that triggers a second sneak attack are badass.

Especially with a flaming quarterstaff.

Sir Penguin
29-09-2005, 04:30:50
My favourite elemental weapon enchantment effect is acid. One of my characters had a scythe that dripped acid, it was awesome.

Regarding the extra attack, fighters have a base attack bonus equal to their level, rogues have a BAB equal to 3/4 their level, and wizards have a BAB equal to 1/2 their level (always rounded down). At FTR2/ROG3/WIZ4 your BABs are (1*2)+(3/4*3)+(1/2*4), which gives you a total of +2+2+2=+6. Extra attacks are always at a -5 penalty from the next-lowest attack bonus, and start when the new extra attack is +1. So at +6 BAB, you get an extra attack at +1. Your next extra attack will come after 10 levels of wizard (or 5 levels of fighter, or 8 levels of rogue, or a combination thereof that adds +5), and your BAB will be +11/+6/+1.

SP

Sir Penguin
29-09-2005, 04:38:03
My FTR6/ROG7/SHD1 has 94591 XP after getting half an hour or so into Chapter 3. I spent most of Chapter 2 without a henchman though, you your mileage may vary.

SP

Oerdin
02-10-2005, 03:34:33
The only problem with this game is it is so designed to be a munchkin's paradise.

The Mad Monk
03-10-2005, 05:07:25
So be an anti-munchkin.

How about a cleric limited to using a bow?

JM^3
03-10-2005, 05:25:03
there is still that zen archery feat

it can actually be pretty badass

JM

Sir Penguin
03-10-2005, 05:50:59
PWN3D!!!

SP

The Mad Monk
09-10-2005, 05:31:53
I spent most of Chapter 2 without a henchman though, you your mileage may vary.


I figured that a henchman might lower your experience, though I haven't figured out by how much yet.

I did discover that familiars and summoned critters also seem to put a dent in your totals.

I built a Druid/Cleric/Sorcie just to see how many "pets" you could have out at once (all of them, apparently), and to see if the game would allow a Druid/Cleric (it does).

While doing mop up in the prelude, I noticed that weak goblins were producing 9 exp with all pets out; a pure fighter of equal level was getting 17 exp on the same goblin.

Is that how its supposed to work?

Sir Penguin
09-10-2005, 16:00:53
I don't think it works that way in 3rd edition, because the animal companion/familiar is accounted for in your level. It's balanced such that a 15th level druid with a dire bear companion (or whatever) is about equivalent in power to a 15th level fighter. Of course, that doesn't mean that's the way NWN is.

I think the henchman lowers your experience by around 25%.

SP

DaShi
10-10-2005, 07:18:03
Originally posted by JM^3
there is still that zen archery feat

it can actually be pretty badass

JM

I tried making a monk/arcane archer with zen archery, but found that a dex based character to be superior at least for a monk. It allows for a strong ranged and melee character with a fairly high AC, plus you get a high stealth and tumble. I'm currently using this character in Folderol.

The Mad Monk
13-10-2005, 22:11:06
I sent a bard through the prelude last night, she was getting 42 xp for weak goblins, and was able to walk out of the prelude at level four.

The experience system is weird, 'kay?

HelloKitty
14-10-2005, 02:19:42
Have you downloaded any mods? Some of them can come with mod packs that are made to change the core game and not just the module that they came with.

Sir Penguin
14-10-2005, 02:50:30
I expect nobody caught that bug, because they didn't expect anybody to play a bard.

SP

HelloKitty
14-10-2005, 02:51:15
The Mad Monk is a fancy lad.

Sir Penguin
14-10-2005, 04:46:05
He needs to play more PvP.

SP

JM^3
14-10-2005, 05:59:09
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
I expect nobody caught that bug, because they didn't expect anybody to play a bard.

SP

bards can be uber with a red dragon desciple build

JM

JM^3
14-10-2005, 05:59:31
or an archery build

JM

The Mad Monk
14-10-2005, 07:54:58
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
He needs to play more PvP.

SP

I have a dialup, and need less PvP, not more.

The Mad Monk
14-10-2005, 07:56:42
Originally posted by JM^3
or an archery build

JM

or an Arcane Archer Weapon Master build.

Sir Penguin
14-10-2005, 15:53:33
Hide in Plain Sight is the most overpowered ability in the game. The only creatures against which it's not effective are ones with True Seeing, which are extremely rare. Regenerating undead with high AC are also tough.

SP

King_Ghidra
14-10-2005, 16:02:55
anyone played the kingmaker download module?

i'm trying to grab a hacked version (bad old me, i know) and it also includes the completed bits of witches wake

Sir Penguin
15-10-2005, 02:27:55
I plan on playing the Bioware modules after I finish HotU again with my current character. If you get it, I'd like to hear what you think.

SP

The Mad Monk
11-11-2005, 19:08:32
I'm resurecting this thread for an important question:

Does damage reduction stack?

Also, does it stack when three similar spells (say, stoneskin, greater stoneskin, and ghostly visage) are cast together, or do the others come into effect as the greatest one fails, or what? I know stoneskin and ghostly visage do not cancel each other out.

JM^3
11-11-2005, 19:47:10
some stack.. some don't

I don't remember the rules right now

JM

Sir Penguin
11-11-2005, 21:55:03
Different kinds of damage reduction kind of stack. For example, 5/+1 and 1/+2 stack to soak 5 when hit by a weapon with no enchantment, and soak 1 when hit by a +1 enchanted weapon. But 10/+1 and 5/+1 will only give you DR 10/+1.

I don't know for sure if the spells stack, but I highly doubt it. It would not be in the pattern. In general, only differently-named bonuses stack (with exceptions, like the dodge bonus to AC and some more abstract bonus types, like circumstance bonuses)

SP

The Mad Monk
15-11-2005, 03:25:01
It appears that the spells depend on the order in which they were cast, with later spells overriding earlier spells regardless of actual power, but only where they overlap.

For example, if Ghostly Visage is cast after Improved Invisibility, the cover bonus will be 10%, not 50%, but it will not effect the character's invisibility. If the spells' order is reversed, the cover bonus will be 50% while retaining Ghostly Visage's ability to negate first level spells.

Further, this effect may only last while the overriding spell is in effect, but I have to do more testing. I do know it works when you cast Energy Buffer after Protection From Elements; when the Buffer collapses from either damage or time limit, Protection From Elements comes immediately into play.

Sir Penguin
15-11-2005, 06:03:59
That makes sense. It's the same with summons.

In a PnP game, of course, the DM would tell you that you shouldn't cast that spell because it will just replace the last one, you idiot. :)

SP

The Mad Monk
15-11-2005, 15:47:44
I'm casting so many spells before I go out the door now, I need a checklist. :)

The Mad Monk
22-11-2005, 04:57:13
I am seriously liking the Greater Missle Swarm spell -- it's a strong boss killer cleverly disguised as a weak crowd controller.

Sir Penguin
23-11-2005, 21:56:06
I hate it. If you're a rogue without SR in the middle of a battle, you're boned.

SP

The Mad Monk
24-11-2005, 02:48:44
Not having SR is a bad thing. That has been made painfully clear on several occasions.

I have been killed by the Implosion spell within the first two rounds of combat four times now -- twice when I already knew it was on the menu.

Sir Penguin
24-11-2005, 21:14:13
I like to play shadowdancers, so the bad guys don't usually get two rounds of combat.

SP

The Mad Monk
25-11-2005, 17:08:49
I felt bad killing that blue dragon to weaken Klauth in the first campaign.

"Hungry! Food! Food! Food!"

I felt like I was killing my cat. :(

Sir Penguin
25-11-2005, 19:48:00
After running around the room, shooting arrows at the damn thing for a couple hours, I wasn't very sorry to see the fucker die.

SP

The Mad Monk
25-11-2005, 23:40:35
That's why you you don't bring a bow to a dragonfight. ;)

The Mad Monk
28-11-2005, 05:26:02
I finished the original campaign, I was very impressed with the whole thing. Great storyline, tons of side quests you were free to take or ignore, and multiple "right" ways to complete many of the quests you did need. The final battle drove me nuts, I didn't figure it out until the third time around, but it was pretty cool when I did.

The end was...weak. I don't like loose ends, and they left a biggie out there with Aribeth's fate. I also didn't appreciate being dumped out of the campaign without the opportunity for some interactinon with the other major characters.

Nevertheless, it was probably the best game I've played in a long, long time.

The Mad Monk
28-11-2005, 05:36:26
In other news, I just completed the first chapter of SoU.

It's been pretty craptastic so far.

It nice to fiddle with my henchman's inventory, but I'd rather have more backstory and quests.

Speaking of quests, is it just me, or are there tons of half-developed quests lying around, abandoned?

A lot less terrain, and much of that is so...empty.

It...does get better...dosen't it...? :(

JM^3
28-11-2005, 06:35:53
far better player developed then any of the official campaigns

I played many hours.. and never played more then a few of an official campaign

JM

Sir Penguin
28-11-2005, 06:51:02
SoU starts off without much of interest going on, and without a lot of focus. Once you leave the Hilltop area, it gets more interesting, but nothing really mindblowing. I enjoyed the desert, if only for the change of scenery. It's much smaller than either of the other campaigns, and should take about half the time to complete. HotU is better than either the OC or SoU (you're the first person I've heard say they liked the OC), and in fact, it ties up some of the loose ends from the previous campaigns.

SP

JM^3
28-11-2005, 07:10:18
This is one I played and enjoyed long ago:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=3701

JM

JM^3
28-11-2005, 07:40:47
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=3477

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=3989 (I think.. has been a while)

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=1706 (first I played (an earlier iteration of course))

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=3823

I don't remember all of them

I see that the second ravenloft module is pretty much finished, I should play that (the first was spectacular)

JM