View Full Version : Historical precedence.

19-09-2005, 02:05:35
The man widely seen as discoverying California is Juan Rodrigeuz Cabrillo who was was entirely unknown until he enlisted in the famous conquistador Hernan Cortes' invasion force for the Aztec Empire. After Cotres's conquest of the Aztec and Maya Cabrillo was placed in charge of southern Mexico and the Pacific coast of Guatemala. From there Cabrillo sought to increase his personal wealth comissioning the explorers who explored the Pacific coast of Mexico and the Gulf of California. Francisco de Ulloa, Hernando de Alarcón and Domingo del Castillo explored Baja California and proved that California was not an island. Cabrillo fear the other explorers would rob him of the vast wealth of the new world so he organized his own exploration efforts, with the blessing of the governor of New Spain, to North America's Pacifc coast in 1542.

Between 1542 and 1543 Cabrillo explored and claimed for Spain the North American coast from Baja California to the San Fracisco Bay. He called San Diego bay, which he named San Miguel Bay, the best natural harbor he had ever seen in his life. Jesuit priests later renamed San Miguel "San Diego" and the name stuck.

Tell us about your local history.

19-09-2005, 02:16:41
Interstingly enough Cabrillo never survived to make it back to the lands where he was lord. Instead he died on his southern trip back to the lands he ruled as Spanish governor. He died at sea and was buried on Santa Catalina Island which he had named San Miguel. I've been to Santa Catalina Island many times and it makes a nice place to explore what California looked like before the European colonialists arrived.

Lazarus and the Gimp
19-09-2005, 18:31:03
Originally posted by Oerdin

Tell us about your local history.

How far back? This area is seriously ancient.

20-09-2005, 09:12:45
Reading as a town was formed in around 7th century but the roman town of Civitas Atrebates/Silchester (which is 8 miles away) formed the basis for what is now Reading... quite a lot of history in those 2000 years.

20-09-2005, 09:39:10
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
How far back? This area is seriously ancient.



go figure! ah, those "new worlders"... :p


Milano, form "Mediolanum" name of never 100% agreed upon origin. Some said from terms meaning "in the middle of [water] lanes", other from "in media pLANitie" = "in the middel of the plain".

Founded from the Romans some centuries B.C., although often you hear mentioning alleged "Celts" previous origin
Then came the Logobards (whence the region name Lombardy).
Then the German "Landsknecht" invading troops.
IIRC the city also had some position under Charlemagne Sacred Roman Empire.
At the time when in Italy almost every town and village flourished as more or less "independent" city-state, Milan had a relevant position in northern Italy, under The Visconti and Sforza lords.
Later (or maybe sometimes earlier too for a stint), we had Spaniards, French, Napoleon, Austrians...
But IIRC Dyl is much more informed than me on my own town's history :cute:

In mid 1800 we had 3 "independence wars" in Italy, I don't recall the details about Milan's participation in that process, which led to the first formation of an italian unified state atound 1860 (er... I think so :o)

20-09-2005, 09:44:04
Read for yourself :)

Where I grew up (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=10661)

Where I was at university (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=1126)

Where I stayed when first employed after uni (The site didn't recognise "Muswell Hill" :() (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=1351)

Where I moved to for many years (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=582)

Where I am now (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=3352)

Dyl Ulenspiegel
20-09-2005, 09:56:36

Celtic, maybe earlier (illyrian?) settlements on the city hills. Romans forced population to settle in the low-lying areas, thereby founding Iuvavum (municipium under Claudius I).

Devastated in the fall of the roman empire, contunuity on the city hills (back to the start, in a way). New bloom with Rupert (re?-founder of monasteries) and Arn (first Archbishop under Charlemagne). Very moved history during the middle ages and renaissance.

After 1100 years of bishop's rule and 500 years as an independent estate within the Holy Roman Empire, Salzburg is secularised and finally becomes part of Austria in 1815/16.

All downhill since then. :D

20-09-2005, 10:03:13
Swindon - derivation Swine Downs - meaning Pig hill.

It had a hill, it had pigs. Great.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
20-09-2005, 10:04:06
There simply must have been some battle at the pig hill.

20-09-2005, 10:08:31
Probably not; just pigs. On a hill...

20-09-2005, 10:14:33
Rotterdam...... a dam in the rotte....damn

20-09-2005, 10:21:37
Originally posted by Funko
Reading as a town was formed in around 7th century but the roman town of Civitas Atrebates/Silchester (which is 8 miles away) formed the basis for what is now Reading... quite a lot of history in those 2000 years.

wiki says that as of the 1086 domesday book, Reading's population was 600 :D

in fact by the end of the c.16th it was still only 3000 strong, and in 1801 only 9,400. Gives a hell of a perspective on the population growth in this country.

20-09-2005, 10:48:55
OK, I checked (http://www.storiadimilano.it/cron/cronindex.htm), and got some facts (most thereof unknown-to-me) "straighter" :)

- founded around 600 B.C. (interestingly at the same time of Marseille for instance), legend rather than history claims by Bellovesus, nephew of Ambigate from the Bithurigian tribe
- the latin name came from a previous Medhelanon meaning "sanctuary"
- around 400 B.C. Brenno's Gauls, on their way to their succesful raid on Rome (those who pur their swords on the scales against roman gold as loot, bragging "Vae Victis!" = "too bad for the losers!" :)), "refounded" the town with the name Alba
- the linked page does not state it clearly, but the name of Brenno's Gaul tribe was Insubrians, who stuck there leading a coaliton of Celts/Gauls (here they are), until the official first entrance of the Romans in the town in 222 B.C.
- when 4 years later Hannibal transits thru the Po valley (you know, with his elphants cross the snowy Alps on his way to Rome) Insubrians and other Gauls profit to rebel again against the Romans
- 20 more years later a "foedus aequum" (fair pact) states that the insubrian capital (that's Milan) keeps its autonomy but loses control on the Po Valley Celts tribes and has to pay tributes to Rome
- but in the follwing 6 years Romans attack and win again, Milan is controlled by Rome :( - although some sources report how the town then began flourishing (*roman* sources of course...). Intersting clause: Insubrians won't get Roman Citizenship, to avoid "perturbing the existing Celts social order"... yeah, right...
- around 150 B.C. opens a Celtic Mint in Milan. The right to coin your own money in the town is no minor feat, economy is power, and its symbols are too
- 50 years later a draft reform allows Insubrians to retributed service in the Roman Army
- in 90 B.C. the Lex Iulia (Julius' Law) grants Roman Citizenship to all allied cities who did not rebel (do'h)
- a year later the Celtic Mint gets closed, but the Latin Right gets extended to the TransPadans (trans="on the other side", of the Po river), with the formation of a local senate which caused a protest of the social powers in Rome albeit it lacked military autonomy
- 81 B.C. the region becomes a Roman Province with the name of "Cisalpine Gaul" (cis="on this side" [of the Alps], as opposed to "trans")
- the increasing disputes about the above citizenship and local ruling issues degenerate bringing in 77 B.C. to the slaughter by Pompeus Magnus of the whole Milan Senate, for supporting the wrong party (no shit...)
- 70 B.C. alleged first erection of City Walls in Milan
- 49 B.C. Ciaslpine Gaul gains citizenshp again
- 44 B.C. Julis Caesar's murder. Milan *hails* the event :coolgrin: erecting a bronze statue to M. Iunius Brutus, father of famous Caesar's assassin and formeer Governor of the Ciaslpine province
- great confusion ensues, but in the end the Brutes flee or die, Antonius enters Milan with his legions and Cisalpine loses Provinceship for good in 42 B.C.
- around 1 AD probable extension of City Walls by Augustus (yes, the first Emperor)
- around 50 AD records of the first Christian Bishops in Milan

OK, so far we're still 15 centuries earlier than Cabrillo's explorations, and that was just the first of 59 pages in the linked Milan's History/chronology site :)

20-09-2005, 10:54:03
The thread is just to share with everyone else and it is not a competition.

20-09-2005, 11:00:03
life is a competition

20-09-2005, 11:03:29
And we are the verliezers

20-09-2005, 11:04:39
hey look at that, Tizzy is using her Royal plural

20-09-2005, 11:09:02
Oerdin, I didn't state with a competitive attitude, but only to put in perspective that asking us to report about our local history means requesting us to go 5 times as back in time as you have to, a much more ponderous effort on us :)

anyway, for those interested, here are some more concise online sources about my city origin and history, in English too to spare me the (bad) translation effort


this UK site has a funny chronology line

but you can find the TRUE MILAN history HERE (http://www.acmilan-online.com/main_history.php)! :coolgrin:

21-09-2005, 20:04:16
Originally posted by MoSe
... but you can find the TRUE MILAN history HERE (http://www.acmilan-online.com/main_history.php)! :coolgrin:


Immortal Wombat
21-09-2005, 20:13:38
Crawley - derivation Crow Ley - meaning crow clearing.

It had a clearing, it had crows. Great.

Later on there was a railway and the government decided it would be a cool place to put 100 000 people who work in London.

Lazarus and the Gimp
21-09-2005, 20:46:53
Well, I've lived nearly all my life in one area of the Mendips or another. The area contained the oldest skeleton found in Britain (in Cheddar- c. 10,000BC) and it's just next to Salisbury Plain which has the remains of large wooden temples of some description dating back to 8000BC. These hills are as old as the hills.

More recently, the last battles on English soil were fought around here- the Pitchfork Rebellion of 1686, followed by the Bloody Assizes, which saw bits of corpse in gibbets on every crossroads. It's also thesite of the Vale of Avalon, and probably the supposed site of Camelot too.

21-09-2005, 22:56:41
Originally posted by mr.G
Rotterdam...... a dam in the rotte....damn well said.

self biased
22-09-2005, 02:54:02
rensselaer is home to fort crailo, where the tune "yankee doodle" was penned. just further north in troy is the alleged birthplace of uncle sam.

22-09-2005, 06:58:38
Montreal was founded on the largest island in the Saint Lawrence river by Samuel de Champlain as the trading post/fort/settlement Ville Marie near the Iroquois village of Hochelaga in 1642

The existence of a series of rapids in the Saint Lawrence surrounding the island made travel by large boats impractical past that point, so the village grew quickly as the centre of the fur trade, denoting the end of the reach of the French and the beginning of the wilderness.

Montreal was captured by the English in 1760 and was ceded to them in 1763 by the Treaty of Paris (which ended the Seven Years' War, aka the French and Indian War in NA)

Montreal was captured briefly by the Americans in 1775, but they were forced to retreat from Lower Canada (aka the province of Quebec) when their expeditionary force was turned back from the gates of Quebec City later that year.

The city was never captured, nor was it ever besieged in the War of 1812, as the large (10 000 strong) expeditionary force sent to attack it was turned away approximately 40 km south of the city by a group of 300 French-Canadian Voltigeurs by tricking the Americans into thinking that the defending force was much larger than it actually was.

In 1821 McGill University was founded in the heart of what was to become downtown Montreal, becoming one of the first Universities in Canada (either second or third, can't remember). Around this time the Lachine Canal was built (allowing ships to pass through the Lachine Rapids which had stymied earlier attempts). By the middle of the 19th century Montreal was the largest and most important city in British North America, holding title to its cultural, financial and industrial capital. The granting of responsible government to the North American colonies/provinces in 1838 can be traced to the Lower Canada rebellion whose heart lay in Montreal.

Through the 50s and 60s the city was run by a corrupt yet forward-looking mayor named Jean Drapeau who was responsible for the development of the downtown core into the skyline we see today. He also managed to score the World Fair in 1967, which was termed Expo 67 (the baseball team was named after this event). The metro system was built in 1966 to prepare for Expo 67, as was a completely artificial island in the Saint Lawrence river off the southern shore of the island of Montreal (constructed out of landfill excavated by the work being done on the metro system).

The Summer Olympics were held in Montreal in 1976, but they turned out to be far less successful than was Expo 67, and construction of facilities created a financial boondoggle which exists to this day. 1976 also saw a hastening decline in the city's relative importance to Toronto, which was fast becoming the nation's new economic powerhouse. The victory of a separatist party in the provincial elections of 1976 spurred a mass migration of the city's large Anglo minority which continues to this day. Along with these disaffected English Montrealers went the headquarters of a number of Canada's largest corporations. Many still remain, however, and the city has reinvented itself in the last 20 years as a leader in the aerospace, information technology and pharmaceutical industries. The UN Civil Aviation organisation, the Canadian Space Agency and the World Anti-Doping Agency (run by the Olympic committee) are headquartered in Montreal.

The city's history is still evident today in places like Old Montreal (which retains its original architecture dating from the 18th century) and its numerous churches (including the enormous St Joseph's Oratory near the top of Mount Royal in the heart of the city).

The city is now the centre of a densely populated metropolitan area (35-40 km radius or so) laying claim to 3.5 million inhabitants. The island of Montreal itself contains ~2 million. A further million live on a large neighbouring island called Laval (immediately to the north of the island of Montreal), and around a half million live on the South Shore of the Saint Lawrence river.

22-09-2005, 07:23:38
When navigating in Montreal it is useful to note that the directions "North", "East" etc. have nothing to do with geographic reality. Not do those directions remain constant over the whole island. On the attached image the red arrows represent "East" in different parts of the city (the other directions are, thankfully, pretty well consistent with this definition).

22-09-2005, 09:27:25
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
wiki says that as of the 1086 domesday book, Reading's population was 600 :D

in fact by the end of the c.16th it was still only 3000 strong, and in 1801 only 9,400. Gives a hell of a perspective on the population growth in this country.

Yeah, definitely.

22-09-2005, 09:28:42
Originally posted by Drekkus
well said. thank you thank you thank you very much.

22-09-2005, 10:45:31
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
wiki says that as of the 1086 domesday book, Reading's population was 600 :D

in fact by the end of the c.16th it was still only 3000 strong, and in 1801 only 9,400. Gives a hell of a perspective on the population growth in this country. Or the fact that until recently, people wanted live anywhere but in Reading. :p

22-09-2005, 12:06:24
And now they all want to be near me.

22-09-2005, 12:09:03
Do birds appear suddenly where ever you go?

22-09-2005, 12:34:36
like vultures

22-09-2005, 12:46:11
only because the crows stayed in their clearing

Mr. Bas
22-09-2005, 14:30:28
Despite knowing practically nothing about the local history, here's what I can tell you anyway...

Groningen has been around since the year 1000 or so, starting out as a small village but for some reason it has been the central town for the Northern part of the Netherlands ever since. City rights in 1200 or 1300 or so, university since 1614 IIRC, and up to today it remains the most important and interesting city in the Northern Netherlands... It has currently about 200.000 inhabitants including lots of students, and because of that and its somewhat isolated position it's more vibrant than the average city of that size. I don't really know much more about the history of the city or the region, but I doubt it's interesting since this has never been a particularly strategic or contested part of the Netherlands.

Wikipedia also has a small entry. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_%28city%29)

22-09-2005, 15:34:42
Bunch of crusty dutchmen cheated the indians with 24 bucks worth of crap.

Several centuries later its called New york.