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RedFred
06-09-2005, 20:43:19
Ring around a rosey,
A pocket full of posies,
Ashes, ashes
We all fall down.

Someone explained to me the meaning of this nursery rhyme today. As a kid I remember reciting it and thinking it was just nonsense words.

So this is acceptable to teach our children and there are people out there worried about evil messages made by playing obscure music tracks backwards?

Lazarus and the Gimp
06-09-2005, 20:45:25
"Little Jack Horner" is about land theft.

"Jack and Jill" is about the death of two kids in Somerset.

"Goosey Goosey Gander" is about the persecuation of Catholics.

Spartak
06-09-2005, 20:55:11
Ring around a rosey,
A pocket full of posies,
Ashes, ashes
We all fall down.

I was taught Atishoo, Atishoo they all fall down.

Its supposed to be about the great plague. We have plague woods near to where I grew up.

MattHiggs
06-09-2005, 20:55:56
The nursery rhyme goes:

Ring a ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
A-tishoo! A-tishoo!
We all fall down

And it's about the Bubonic Plague.

Spartak
06-09-2005, 20:58:40
Snap

Chris
06-09-2005, 21:00:13
Originally posted by RedFred
Ring around a rosey,
A pocket full of posies,
Ashes, ashes
We all fall down.

Someone explained to me the meaning of this nursery rhyme today. As a kid I remember reciting it and thinking it was just nonsense words.

So this is acceptable to teach our children and there are people out there worried about evil messages made by playing obscure music tracks backwards? It dates from the middle ages, it describes the black death.

"Ring around a rosey" refers to red splotches caused by plague

"A pocket full of posies" People in the period believed flowers, which smelled nice could ward off evil spirts that they thought caused plague, it was common for people to have flowers as an anti-plauge tailmen

"Ashes, ashes" Its actualy 'Achoo, achoo,' sneezing was another plague symptom

"We all fall down" That should be obvious, they all fell down stone dead from plague.

MattHiggs
06-09-2005, 21:00:40
Anyone heard?

I love little pussy, her coat is so warm,
And If I don't hurt her she'll do me no harm.
So I'll not pull her tail, nor drive her away,
But pussy and I very gently will play.

Spartak
06-09-2005, 21:04:51
Originally posted by Chris
It dates from the middle ages, it describes the black death.

"Ring around a rosey" refers to red splotches caused by plague

"A pocket full of posies" People in the period believed flowers, which smelled nice could ward off evil spirts that they thought caused plague, it was common for people to have flowers as an anti-plauge tailmen

"Ashes, ashes" Its actualy 'Achoo, achoo,' sneezing was another plague symptom

"We all fall down" That should be obvious, they all fell down stone dead from plague. Doh! talk about not paying attention. :rolleyes:

I always wanted a valid excuse to :rolleyes: Chris. :bounce:

Chris
06-09-2005, 21:08:22
Originally posted by Spartak
Doh! talk about not paying attention. :rolleyes:

I always wanted a valid excuse to :rolleyes: Chris. :bounce: Maybe you will get one someday.

Each line had a specific meaning, which i described.

KrazyHorse
06-09-2005, 21:19:34
Snopes.com says that the connection is bogus

Chris
06-09-2005, 21:22:38
Snopes is wrong.

Japher
06-09-2005, 21:23:29
I already told all those fewls over at CFC that snopes.com is actually fake!

They believed me.:D

KrazyHorse
06-09-2005, 21:23:54
Snopes says that no printed version of the nursery rhyme was around until the latter part of the 19th century, thus to claim a connection with the plague is difficult, assuming 500 years of oral tradition with not a single reference in writing.

Chris
06-09-2005, 21:26:47
That paragrapgh is a lot different from claiming its bogus.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
06-09-2005, 21:34:34
Oooh, bubonic plague! We have that in California! Item in the local newspaper says to keep your cats indoors because there have been four reports of plague this year instead of the usual two. I love that the U.S. is the most advanced country in the world, yet we still have diseases from the Middle Ages running rampant.

Chris
06-09-2005, 21:36:48
Damn medieval cats.

Japher
06-09-2005, 21:42:15
It's the hippies!

Walrus Feeder
06-09-2005, 22:24:58
What about the content of some of those Ladybird books and stories for children we were exposed to when we were all young(er)

Hanzel and Gretel - shutting the old woman in the oven to burn to death.

Ali Baba & 40 thieves - pouring boiling oil into the big pot things where the men were hiding.

Gingerbread Man - Some Ging bloke getting eating alive by a fox! :eek:

RedFred
07-09-2005, 05:44:11
Instead of "ashes ashes'' I think we said something like "husha husha" but it has been a while since I was four so perhaps I am not remembering correctly.

Nursery rhymes and tales in general are pretty grim. I am surprised the politically correct folk haven't managed to ban the lot of them.

KrazyHorse@home
07-09-2005, 05:54:28
Originally posted by Chris
That paragrapgh is a lot different from claiming its bogus.

I find it a bit odd that a nursery rhyme in common circulation in the 14th century was not noted in writing until the 19th century

notyoueither
07-09-2005, 06:29:18
I don't.

How many children's verses have you committed to the permanent record of your professional life?

Koshko
07-09-2005, 06:30:19
Tell them about Rock-a-Bye Baby, Chris.

notyoueither
07-09-2005, 06:30:30
And there is a reason why there is a recent movement to record oral traditions.

If you don't, you lose them.

Koshko
07-09-2005, 06:33:43
Originally posted by Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
Oooh, bubonic plague! We have that in California! Item in the local newspaper says to keep your cats indoors because there have been four reports of plague this year instead of the usual two. I love that the U.S. is the most advanced country in the world, yet we still have diseases from the Middle Ages running rampant.


Well a couple of species of rat are carriers of the bubonic plague, and occasionally it will be transferred to cats. As far as I know, there hasn't been transferred up to any other being. There was a period where they found 4 cats with it around Cheyenne, Wyoming in about a 2 week period recently too.

notyoueither
07-09-2005, 06:37:35
*K_G may beat me if he wishes*

19th century Britain is the first time literacy became widespread in that culture.

As such, a lot of things started being written down that before that would not have been. It was a veritable explosion of writing and recording. Many of the things written down, for the first time, were trivial. Like children's songs.

Funko
07-09-2005, 09:20:46
Yep. That's actually a very plausible explanation.

The Norks
07-09-2005, 09:33:36
Fairy tales were originally warning or morality tales for children. Little Red Riding Hood was raped and killed by a woodsman in the original story before it was sanitised. Its a heartwarming tale- I think Disney should cover it.

The Norks
07-09-2005, 09:36:52
Originally posted by notyoueither
*K_G may beat me if he wishes*

19th century Britain is the first time literacy became widespread in that culture.

As such, a lot of things started being written down that before that would not have been. It was a veritable explosion of writing and recording. Many of the things written down, for the first time, were trivial. Like children's songs.

The Victorians were also very fond of erasing the histories and contents of stories and things they didnt find acceptable, or of changing them to something more anodyne/Christian/moral so a lot of the origins are probably permanently lost for many folk tales, songs and such.

Funko
07-09-2005, 09:37:53
Woodsman or Woodstock?

Gary
07-09-2005, 09:42:39
And if someone provides an alternative version and tells you it's the original, why should you believe them ?

That alternative RRH ending though sounds a lot more exciting than "they all lived happily ever after" :)

PS no wonder they called it 'little red riding hood" phnarr phnarr

Gary
07-09-2005, 09:56:34
Little Red Riding Hood was walking through the woods when the Big Bad Wolf jumped out from behind a tree.

"Little Red Riding Hood," he said, "I'm going to throw you on the ground, tear off all your clothes, and rape you!"

Little Red Riding Hood considered this, then removed a pistol from her picnic basket and pointed it at the wolf levelly.

"Oh no, you're not," she said. "You're going to eat me, just like the story says."

Drekkus
07-09-2005, 10:37:25
:lol:

Iskandar Reza
07-09-2005, 13:29:22
:lol:

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
07-09-2005, 16:59:24
Originally posted by Koshko
Well a couple of species of rat are carriers of the bubonic plague, and occasionally it will be transferred to cats. As far as I know, there hasn't been transferred up to any other being. There was a period where they found 4 cats with it around Cheyenne, Wyoming in about a 2 week period recently too.

Yeah, nasty rodent population. The article mentioned mice specifically, but rats are known carriers, yes.

It's apparently a serious issue in 11 of our counties here, and they can't do anything about it. Very widespread.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
07-09-2005, 17:00:17
Originally posted by Walrus Feeder
Hanzel and Gretel - shutting the old woman in the oven to burn to death.

Don't forget cannibalism, child abuse, child abandonment and gluttony!