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No longer Trippin
02-09-2005, 06:04:13
Just wanted to share that I'm okay - the federal government has fucked us though, can't say I'm surprised. Will talk about this when I can comprehend this mess.

Jason

Koshko
02-09-2005, 06:29:24
It's really good to hear that you are still around. I wondered what happened to you since I knew you lived down there.

On a side note, I'm not surprised the feds fucked you, because everything the Bush Administration touches turns into total shit. This Administration is easily the worst and most inept Administration in our nation's history.

Sorry for making this political, but I just couldn't help myself.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
02-09-2005, 06:32:01
You got somewhere to go Trip? Other than the Astrodome?

(EDIT: The fact you're posting probably means yes, duh)

JM^3
02-09-2005, 07:08:48
:(

sorry

JM

The Mad Monk
02-09-2005, 07:11:30
Good to see you're safe.

KH of the North
02-09-2005, 07:20:53
Be happy to be safe. Worry about your shit later.

Hope things work out with the least amount of hassle possible.

:beer:

Matt

Gary
02-09-2005, 08:41:58
Best Of Luck

MOBIUS
02-09-2005, 09:23:18
All the best dude - you've still alive and at the moment that's the most important thing...

NO was my favourite city in the US - it's hard to believe what has happened there...:(

zmama
02-09-2005, 09:30:45
Oh so glad to hear from you! Was worried as to whether you were ok.

I wish you much luck and nonstupid feds to work with. *hug*

Funko
02-09-2005, 09:30:45
I was wondering about Trip, wasn't sure if he was still living in NO or not. Glad he's let us know.

At least you are ok even if your stuff isn't.

Tizzy
02-09-2005, 09:31:08
Glad you're safe Trip

mr.G
02-09-2005, 09:39:48
good luck

Spartak
02-09-2005, 09:53:14
what everyone else said. You can replace stuff. You can't replace your life. Good luck.

protein
02-09-2005, 10:03:34
All of the above.

Sorry to hear about your home and the state of your city.

:(

Kitsuki
02-09-2005, 10:06:25
Glad you are alright - hope the coming months are as stressless as possible - sure you will be back up on your feet soon. :)

RedFred
02-09-2005, 15:19:23
Glad you are still around, Trip.

I think all the looter footage was even more disturbing to me than the hurricane itself.

Debaser
02-09-2005, 15:35:49
Especially the police looting stuff...

http://zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/co...ting-in-walmart

MDA
02-09-2005, 15:36:47
shit, I thought he'd moved to New York.

Good to hear from you Trip.

Sir Penguin
02-09-2005, 15:37:36
It's great to hear you're OK, Trip. Where are you?

SP

novacane
02-09-2005, 15:52:04
Originally posted by Debaser
Especially the police looting stuff...

I haven't got sound at work. Were the cops actually looting?

Debaser
02-09-2005, 16:01:46
When the reporter goes to talk to them they walk away from their trolly (full of adidas shoes by the looks of things), and claim they're keeping an eye out for looters, but nobody seems to take this claim too seriously.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
02-09-2005, 16:29:23
Originally posted by No longer Trippin
Just wanted to share that I'm okay -

I was thinking about you when the news came, but as Funko I wasn't sure you were still living there. Glad you're ok.

Oerdin
02-09-2005, 17:06:42
At least you didn't die, man. I hear many people weren't so lucky. :(

Oerdin
02-09-2005, 17:10:01
[i]
On a side note, I'm not surprised the feds fucked you, because everything the Bush Administration touches turns into total shit. This Administration is easily the worst and most inept Administration in our nation's history. [/B]

Amen. Good to know that one of the worst disasters in the nations history was going on and Bush decided to ignore it for the first two days and go to campaign fund raisers in San Diego instead. He took photo ops where he pretended to play guitar though and that's kind of like saying he cares. Right?

No longer Trippin
02-09-2005, 18:51:15
Nice to hear the support from you all. I had just typed a long rant about all this bullshit, but I just didn't feel it'd be appropriate and it'd be long - even to me. I've been in New Orleans (after riding the storm out in baton rouge), mostly around midcity (directly south the main breatch) picking up those stranded by water.

Those on the news complaining about rioters are right and wrong. We go out there with only what we have for the first 3 days pretty much. When we'd pick people up, some hadn't had water for awhile or food, so we'd give it to them. You know where we got food a couple times, from looters knowing we were going save a neighbor. I've heard shots fired and even carry a shotgun and a handgun along with my friend - but as of being threatened - no. Cops are catching it, but relief workers are untouched from what I've picked up from others. Later on today I'm having to pack up and head back to the lake since we have a larger boat that can make it to the few rare points in St. Bernard and they are left to save themselves - no aid or workers are making it to them - the fuckups that led to the rioting (not looting) have made stretching a fragmented line through new orleans impossible. These people are pissed and many rightfully so. I'm guessing at least 1000 dead from water alone from what I've seen right now. Our government has failed immensely. This was seen and shouted about for years. But we aren't weathly white and protestant, so they don't give a damned. Well I need to get going - your wishes are appreciated and much needed for many. I lost everything, but it can be replaced. Most lost everything and are still there.

PS As for those blaming bush, don't. This is 30 years of the government trusting it's slide rule army corps study of 30 years ago compared to the 20+ years of more modern studies which all showed THIS using calculators and computers. That's reps, dems, presidents, congressmen, etc. This is failure of the government finally illustrated.

Thanks for the wishes guys.

JM^3
02-09-2005, 19:15:45
is there anything I can do to help?

JM

MDA
02-09-2005, 19:16:20
The NO mayor is blaming the governor and Bush - there's a 12 minute interview with him on CNN that ended with him and the interviewer in tears.

Lurker the Second
02-09-2005, 19:26:43
Well Trip, that was as good a report as 95% of the stuff I've seen on the networks. Thanks and be well.

Oerdin
02-09-2005, 19:53:16
Originally posted by MDA
The NO mayor is blaming the governor and Bush - there's a 12 minute interview with him on CNN that ended with him and the interviewer in tears.

I saw that. It was a hell of an interview and the man was spot on.

Venom
02-09-2005, 19:54:37
I've got to say Trip, you're taking this better than so many other people there. If only more people in that area had your attitude, I think things would be much better.

And the NO mayor can eat it, it's not like it's a secret that the city is below sea level. His ass is just as accountable as anyone else.

protein
02-09-2005, 20:15:52
it's a horrifying thought that it could deteriorate into anarchy and gun-toting violence in just a matter of hours.

the reports of armed gangs running riot in the streets, police looting, rescuers being shot at... it's just beyond my comprehension. if hollywood had come up with the story i'd have dismissed it as nonsense.

Venom
02-09-2005, 20:22:15
I can't believe it either. I've been in the same situation before and needless to say, things went completely differently. It's unbelievable that people anyhwere would act like this, let alone in a major city. People have been rendered nothing more than barbaric animals.

Spartak
02-09-2005, 20:45:07
Its looks like your plan for world domination is working then. :)

More seriously, what a fucked up situation...

protein
02-09-2005, 21:05:44
I suppose that the ones that didn't leave are the ones that were too poor, too stupid and those who physically and mentally couldn't.

Perhaps the sort that are more likely to resort to crime in desperate times. Perhaps the sort to carry guns and loot?

While those that had relatives to visit, money for hotels, able bodies and able minds, the ones that left are the ones who hold society above that level.

Venom
02-09-2005, 21:25:35
I didn't want to be the one to say it, as I'm not as...polite and articulate, but that's what I was thinking. The "dregs" of society if you will, are much more likely to forgo civilization since they're on the outskirts of civilization.

And the NO mayor should have broke out the school buses to help evacuate people when it was a mandatory evacuation before the storm hit.

Cruddy
02-09-2005, 21:41:55
I don't think many in government will come out of this mess smelling of roses.

I wish you and all the suvivors of Katrina the very best of luck in the weeks and months ahead.

Sure as shit, you'll need it.

Anyone else got any ideas for me helping in a more substantial way, post away.

lightblue
02-09-2005, 21:58:39
Think there's some relieffunds, not sure if there's any in the UK yet though. Salvation Army, Red Cross etc are all heavily involved.

Venom
02-09-2005, 22:07:17
You can write a check to the relief arm of my company. Seriously. The big boss man is big in to charity. Built a bunch of boats for the Indian fisherman who lost their livelyhood during the tsunami.

Drekkus
02-09-2005, 23:07:24
Originally posted by MDA
shit, I thought he'd moved to New York. Yeah, that's what I thought. Stay safe though.

Greg W
03-09-2005, 01:51:54
Glad to hear you're allright dude. I just hope things go okay for you in the wash-up...

notyoueither
03-09-2005, 05:39:49
Take care of yourself, and as many others as you can.

:beer:

JM^3
03-09-2005, 05:53:38
What is needed to be done down there?

jM

Lurker the Second
03-09-2005, 05:55:21
:lol: I just can't help it. :lol:

Alexander's Horse
03-09-2005, 06:07:50
good luck Trip, admire you for helping your neighbour

devilmunchkin
03-09-2005, 07:41:42
from what i can tell, the need clean up crews, medics, food, water... i know red cross is accepting vollunteers... I'm sure if i look around somewhere i can find an official "donate money Here" thing that isn't a scam...

Trippin i'm so glad you are safe and are alive. You're awesome for doing what you can to help ppl.

I have a friend who left NO before the storm but should be headed back to his home to see if anything is left. He, like you, wants to join the clean up crews to try and put his city back together. Stay safe.

devilmunchkin
03-09-2005, 08:26:30
try this: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/katrina/help.center/#dv

Lazarus and the Gimp
03-09-2005, 08:54:29
Originally posted by protein
it's a horrifying thought that it could deteriorate into anarchy and gun-toting violence in just a matter of hours.

the reports of armed gangs running riot in the streets, police looting, rescuers being shot at... it's just beyond my comprehension. if hollywood had come up with the story i'd have dismissed it as nonsense.

No city in the world couldn't descend into violent anarchy after 48 hours without food.

protein
03-09-2005, 09:33:32
You are probably right. Lord of the Flies springs to mind.

Noisy
03-09-2005, 10:05:04
Best wishes, Trip.

Beta1
03-09-2005, 10:19:28
Good to hear your safe Trip, Sounds like your doing a good job down there too.

Funko
05-09-2005, 09:52:45
Saw some brits on the news last night, they'd just got back from NO and they were at pains to say that the vast majority of the New Orleans people had been really nice and helpful - offering them food and water even when they barely had anything themselves. So according to them although the looters etc. are making the news most people really weren't like that and were helping each other out.

Iskandar Reza
05-09-2005, 09:58:33
Typical of the media to only highlight the bad shit. Good job and good luck, Trip.

Nav
05-09-2005, 10:06:42
Well the bad bits unfortunately make the best stories, the good stories will come out eventually, hopefully.

Best of luck Trip, hope everything goes well from here out.

Mr. Bas
05-09-2005, 11:13:14
Best wishes Trip, and good to hear you are allright.

Shining1
05-09-2005, 12:31:40
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
No city in the world couldn't descend into violent anarchy after 48 hours without food.


"Three square meals away from barbarism..."


Trip: *hugs* bro. There's not really anything more I can say.

Provost Harrison
05-09-2005, 12:42:46
Originally posted by Shining1
"Three square meals away from barbarism..."


Quite a sobering thought when put like that...

MoSe
05-09-2005, 12:59:30
I didn't even know/realise any of us lived in NO region, glad to have been directly informed with the "good" news

Of course things can be replaced, such events just put our many little quandaries into perspective


hmm, Nawlins was one of the places I'd have wanted to visit when I'll have finally decided to cross the pond to see what's on the other side... I wonder how much is actually lost forever, and what will just be rebuilt as it was before-ish

Funko
07-09-2005, 12:33:24
We're sending half a million Army Ration packs to NO.

Given the reputation of these things not sure if that's good or not!

Tizzy
07-09-2005, 12:35:56
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4221838.stm

Funko
07-09-2005, 12:36:16
Forgot the link!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4221838.stm

Funko
07-09-2005, 12:36:38
D'oh.

Gary
07-09-2005, 12:40:04
We're too late, they've all moved out (save for the ones who've moved back)

Greg W
07-09-2005, 13:07:49
Interesting webjournal from someone that stayed in NO here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/2005/08/27/).

(later days, not the day I linked)

Gary
07-09-2005, 13:36:29
:D Today's -entry- amused me.

Greg W
08-09-2005, 01:05:29
"Wait, we secured that exit. That means that this building might have other people in it," I told them.

They all knew what was coming next. If it was their job to check on lights and movement to look for people who didn't belong there....

I asked them to sweep the building for us.

And they did. All 27 floors of it with no elevators.:lol:

MDA
08-09-2005, 12:37:41
ha, that'll teach them not to break into buildings when they're bored

Venom
08-09-2005, 13:08:24
When will someone teach me not to?

No longer Trippin
09-09-2005, 02:32:14
As I'm typing this a certian NATIONAL news channel that I'm able to catch is going on about people saving animals from the waters. What the fuck? Fuck them for their cowardice and incompetence in reporting - this is just the last fucking straw for me with them. They now hold NO fucking credibility in my eyes. None. Neither does the government.

Fuck the government. I've said it many times, but never before I have I meant it with such conviction and belief to back it up. I don't think I've ever had so many ups and downs in my life as over the past week. Getting people food and water or ferrying them elsewhere is nice, but then seeing the corpses floating in the water or stuck to a tree or whatnot isn't. Animals have gotten to the dead in many areas - dogs and cats in the city and after seeing quite a few highly bloated gators that didn't even budge when we came within feet of them, I'm sure they did as well. It is just sickening. This is what my alledged government thinks we deserve. Fuck them.

I made it into Chalmette and it has about a 2-3 inch thick oil sludge over the entire place - plus water too high to stand in at some spots. New Orleans, parts of Jefferson, and Chalmette are going to need Superfund site type cleanups. No doubt in my mind. I really don't want to talk about what I've seen graphically or done other than what I've briefly mentioned - I did some good, so did others - sadly my government wasn't one of them. But it wasn't enough and the government made sure it's help never made it anywhere needed. This just feels wrong. These are or were people and they've been treated worse than fucking animals by the government. Why? Really, why?

As for being below sea level, yes - but for years and years we've been saying the levees won't hold a cat 3 - let alone something like Katrina. The corps said a different story. The government has failed probably around a quarter million people who didn't get out because of funds or stupidity. Now they are saying that they knew a cat 3 moving slowly would top it easily - before they said it'd be improbable but could happen under very specific conditions - they were wrong and they knew it.

Those who were saved were saved by neighbors, volunteers and donations from across the states (thank you, really thank you) and if they survived for 4 or 5 days, the federal government to some extent. Albeit slow as it possibly could fucking do it. Knock down a Red Cross feeding camp (for thousands) to deliver them coffee creamer (not shitting you) is damned ridiculous. Oh, we didn't know a CHINOOK helicopter would pick up a dozen or so tents and send them and the poles they are attached to flying around just waiting to impale somebody. That was a site I was in disbelief about, especially when they could have landed a hundred yards away instead of less than TWENTY! What the fuck do we need creamer for when we have no food or water? How about stopping the only ice/water delivery into the eastern parishes since the storm hit because FEMA wanted the trucks (all two of them from what RC reps relayed to me). Let's let the entire first floor of OPP's prisoners drown because we left them there then wonder why the upper floors rioted and took control of the prison. Yes, all together the local and state has done a good job (minus a fwe glaring fuckups) given the fact that FEMA took ALL there working communications away for themselves, that made each parish a fiefdom protecting itself from New Orleans per se in some ways for quite a while until communications could get up and running and then did fucking nothing with it from what I've gathered until only recently. State and federal officials are sparring over control of everything, and I hope the state gets it - while as fucked up as this state is - it didn't try to cull the poor like stray dogs.

The situation is so dire here that the usual 6 hour RC training session is cut into 30 minutes and they just basically tell you what pages to read for what. I talked to one from New York running a shelter and he's never heard of it being cut shorter than 3 hours. The government does not care about us - if you want to do anything to help and you live in the states, write your representatives, get your friends to and have them do the same - but pressure on your reps. Seriously. Only a voice from places that the government cares about will they listen to - and that's a big maybe. Donating would help as well - the Red Cross is overwhelmed as I've illustrated but they've been the most competent relief organization that is down here that I can stand behind. I maybe got 8 to 10 hours sleep the past several days (in 15-30 minute periods usually) and I'm still wired but exhausted. I don't know what else to say or what to say other than fuck the government and fuck all those who think of us as rodents and Katrina an effective exterminator.

Please help us. What you are seeing on TV isn't what is really happening - it is far worse, far far worse (at least from what I've heard from friends outside the region watching tv and even the regional coverage). Thanks for your prayers/wishes, etc. They are appreciated.

I don't know what else to say, fuck, after all this, I don't even know how to feel.

Again, thank you for your wishes and such. They are needed for more than me quite easily at this time, but thank you.

protein
09-09-2005, 02:38:35
Holy fucking shit. :(

What can a guy in the UK do to help?

protein
09-09-2005, 02:46:33
It really does feel surreal that we are talking about the richest country in the world here...

JM^3
09-09-2005, 03:31:47
I have given some..

I will give more

especially once I get a job

JM

No longer Trippin
09-09-2005, 03:39:12
To help those who need it. This one was in my inbox from a friend - I'm sure there are others.

http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

1-800-HELP-NOW also will work (ripped from the page for those too lazy to read the finer print).

Gary
09-09-2005, 09:22:37
Was about to mention that one doesn't need to be American to donate to the American Red Cross on the Net. I found this one which I believe is official. (http://www.redcross.org/)

Funko
09-09-2005, 09:50:26
:(

lightblue
09-09-2005, 10:10:35
Very powerful piece Trip, sounds horrid. They offering you counselling and that sort of thing? Can't be easy to see the things you've seen.

In a way i feel odd donating to any kind of US emergency appeal. The tsunami-hit countries did not have the funds to deal with this kind of disaster, the US is the richest country by far and in a way i feel it should deal with its own problems, and that my money is better spent on people in countries that can't support their own. If they up the tax on corporations by 1% f.ex. they got all the funds they need.

Funko
09-09-2005, 10:11:46
It's a very rich country but some people in it are very poor.

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 10:18:45
And sadly equality couldn't be nearer the bottom of the political agenda :(

lightblue
09-09-2005, 10:25:11
True.. maybe i am too used to our european style governments that actually care to a degree about people.

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 10:32:07
I read yesterday that Fidel Castro was aksed to donate things, but also asked not to talk about the donation....

MOBIUS
09-09-2005, 10:34:19
Well I know it sounds callous but I just can't bring myself to donate money to the US, if the World's richest nation can't look after its own - why should I?

Gary
09-09-2005, 10:36:36
Mutual friendship ?

I can see your point but if the Red Cross has a bundle of money left over after the event then surely it'll be put to the next good cause ?

Funko
09-09-2005, 10:38:14
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
I read yesterday that Fidel Castro was aksed to donate things, but also asked not to talk about the donation....

He publically offered help, not sure how that fits in with that story? You sure that's not a malicious rumour?

mr.G
09-09-2005, 10:41:12
I read yeaterday that Fidel wears an uniform. coooool real cool, well not in his country because there it is really really hot

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 10:42:19
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Well I know it sounds callous but I just can't bring myself to donate money to the US, if the World's richest nation can't look after its own - why should I?

I'm glad someone else said that......Money determines what happens in the world, and when I hear the estimated cost of clearing things up ammounts to just the annual cost of the war, no matter how many times people say "it's the actuall victims of the disaster who lose out" I can't bring myself to donate.

It's a terrible thing money.

Gary
09-09-2005, 10:43:56
There's a lot of unsubstantiated rumour flying around, and one can never be sure to deny stuff :(

For example, one I read on another forum recently was that federal money had been allocated to build up the levees but was put to another use by the State. Sounds unlikely to me, but how do you tell ?

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 10:46:17
Originally posted by Funko
He publically offered help, not sure how that fits in with that story? You sure that's not a malicious rumour?

Can't find the article now. Why don't the archive search facilities on online newspaper site ever work?!

Funko
09-09-2005, 10:46:35
Problem is though, it is the victims of the disaster that lose out.

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 10:48:37
Yeah. It's a shame no one tells politicians that.

Gary
09-09-2005, 10:49:21
I read in a number of reliable places that help was offered. no idea about keeping quiet though, that also sounds unlikely as it is so obvious the info would come out.

Would have been a real coup for Castro either way around :)

Funko
09-09-2005, 10:50:41
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/03/katrina.castro/

HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Cuban President Fidel Castro has offered to send help to the United States in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

At a nightly roundtable program on state-run television Friday, the Cuban leader said his nation was ready to send 1,100 doctors and 26 tons of medicine and equipment.

"Others have sent money; we are offering to save lives," he said.

Castro -- an enemy of U.S. President George W. Bush and frequent subject of condemnation from the White House -- said he would not comment on the U.S. government's response to the tragedy because "this is not the time to kick an adversary -- while he's down."

Castro said the doctors he was offering have international experience.

Funko
09-09-2005, 10:51:29
The US also offered Cuba help after Hurricane Dennis but Cuba refused it.

fp
09-09-2005, 12:08:40
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Well I know it sounds callous but I just can't bring myself to donate money to the US, if the World's richest nation can't look after its own - why should I?

Yes that is extremely callous.

How about if a massive earthquake flattened most of Tokyo? Would you just sit back and say "They're the world's second-richest country so I don't need to care about this - if they can't take care of it themselves then it serves them right"?

fp
09-09-2005, 12:12:46
I also think that posting something like "Help? Why should I?" immediately after reading Trip's last post shows the man a tremendous lack of respect apart from anything else.

protein
09-09-2005, 12:14:07
http://costofwar.com/

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 12:19:22
It all boils down to money! And the counter would be more at home as the tripometer of a space shuttle, not a balance sheet.

Funko
09-09-2005, 12:22:44
Pointing out that the US is spending a lot on the war doesn't help the people that are suffering now does it?

Drekkus
09-09-2005, 12:25:15
Can't believe how hatefull some of you guys are.

Funko
09-09-2005, 12:26:32
Me either. I think it's sad.

MOBIUS
09-09-2005, 12:27:02
Originally posted by fp
I also think that posting something like "Help? Why should I?" immediately after reading Trip's last post shows the man a tremendous lack of respect apart from anything else.

My reason is that I would merely be donating money - which the US obviously has plenty of, so there isn't any point.

If I was over there and they needed volunteers to help out that would be a different matter.

Funko
09-09-2005, 12:29:50
The US as a whole has plenty of money, that doesn't mean that the people suffering have money.

Trip's already pointed out that that donated money is making a difference.

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 12:30:29
Originally posted by Funko
Pointing out that the US is spending a lot on the war doesn't help the people that are suffering now does it?

It certainly doesn't. I don't think it should have been brought up (reasons for donating or not donating is a personal thing), but sadly as soon as it is brought up, i becomes a free for all (I'm as guilty).

Oh and that Tokyo thing is a bit dumb too, if Tokyo was throwing money into an unjust overseas war, then yes I wouldn't give money.

But anyway give or don't give, it's personal.

fp
09-09-2005, 12:31:07
Originally posted by Drekkus
Can't believe how hatefull some of you guys are.

Me neither. I think the reason is that they're actually really happy that Bush has messed this up and that his approval rates are taking a big hit as a result. It's pathetic that their politics is overriding sympathy for their fellow man. :gasmaske:

Funko
09-09-2005, 12:33:08
Like Trip said, not spending money on the defences is something none of the recent gov'ts of either party have done.

Funko
09-09-2005, 12:33:51
Goddamn it why do you motherfuckers keep getting me arguing about politics here. :bash:

fp
09-09-2005, 12:34:06
nm

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 12:34:10
Well, the sad thinig is we're told again and again a president's policies are justified by his popularity and continued re-election, so you can't help but feel a little pleased when things go pear shaped for him.

But please be assured, that glee is nothing compared to the sense of horror of all those poor people.....

Drekkus
09-09-2005, 12:34:21
I think people have a primal urge to hate. And since it's not pc to hate jews, blacks or muslims, it's good to hate america.

I for instance hate fellow road users.

Provost Harrison
09-09-2005, 12:36:11
I agree with MOBIUS. A country with the US's resources should be able to resolve this issue no problem without any external assistance. I remember during the Tsunami that India refused all assistance because it said it was not necessary and could deal with the situation itself. So what the hell is different about the US? I'm not prepared to donate money to them because after this, their citizens should really look seriously at how their society is structured...

Nills Lagerbaak
09-09-2005, 12:38:31
on an aside, India even took the role of providing aid in the region but with the added plus of not attaching any political strings to any of it! Some good forward thinking there I think.

MOBIUS
09-09-2005, 12:38:52
Originally posted by Funko
The US as a whole has plenty of money, that doesn't mean that the people suffering have money.

I am sorry but perhaps it is time for the US to actually face up to that fact and do something about it.

Besides, what about these $2,000 Debit cards the survivors are getting?

Also, I can only give so much and this last year for me has included the Tsunami, Cadw and Woodland Trust - so I have to prioritise.

fp
09-09-2005, 12:39:12
Originally posted by Funko
Trip's already pointed out that that donated money is making a difference.

Worth quoting in case anyone missed it. Trip would know better than us what is or is not helping people in New Orleans. Not that I expect anyone's view to be changed by this.

Provost Harrison
09-09-2005, 12:41:24
I expect the money would make a difference but why is it having to come out of the pockets of individuals with the money the US has at it's disposal?

fp
09-09-2005, 12:41:26
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Also, I can only give so much and this last year for me has included the Tsunami, Cadw and Woodland Trust - so I have to prioritise.

That at least I can agree with you on. I feel guilty for not giving to some very worthy causes, but one can't give to everybody. So much suffering in the world. :(

If only I had super-powers. Then everything would be OK.

fp
09-09-2005, 12:45:16
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I expect the money would make a difference but why is it having to come out of the pockets of individuals with the money the US has at it's disposal?

That's a fair point, but if the federal government have fucked everything up then someone has to help. Just sitting back and saying "Well this is a right old mess, isn't it? Bush is really going to catch it for this one and about time too" helps nobody.

mr.G
09-09-2005, 12:50:49
Originally posted by Drekkus
I for instance hate fellow road users. and cheese and your wife tomatoes, that also cause that is and you hate people pretending to be someone else who ask you something.

fp
09-09-2005, 12:55:14
Originally posted by Gary
Mutual friendship ?
I can see your point but if the Red Cross has a bundle of money left over after the event then surely it'll be put to the next good cause ?

As an aside, I remember that (I think) it was Medecin Sans Frontiers who received such a stupidly large amount of donations for the Tsunami aid that they started ringing the doners up and saying "Thank you very much, but we've already got everything we need - would you like us to use it somewhere else or would you like your money back?"

Props to them. :beer:

lightblue
09-09-2005, 12:58:18
Originally posted by fp
That at least I can agree with you on. I feel guilty for not giving to some very worthy causes, but one can't give to everybody. So much suffering in the world. :(

If only I had super-powers. Then everything would be OK.

That kind of was my point. I am a student, i can only give a certain amount of money a year, and I see people affected by these kind of things in 3rd World countries as more in need as their governments with the best intentions cannot provide for their people. I wouldn't expect people in the US to collect if something happened here either. The US has enough resources, and the public willingness to donate that they do not my money as much as some poor sods in say Bangladesh when they get flooded. It's got nothing to do with the war and if I had unlimited funds, sure I'd contribute, but unluckily for me i don't.

LoD
09-09-2005, 13:07:26
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
on an aside, India even took the role of providing aid in the region but with the added plus of not attaching any political strings to any of it! Some good forward thinking there I think.

Of course they didn't :rolleyes:...


MOBIUS, Nills, Provost et al: I'd just like to point out that Tripp' suggested the Red Cross - that's an independent organization focussed on saving lifes, and not a part of the US Government. Are you able to comprehend this fine difference?

Venom
09-09-2005, 13:11:03
Another fine point, the Red Cross can use the money now, the always slow democratic government process has to vote and vote and approve and approve before the billions are freed up.

Venom
09-09-2005, 14:01:52
Also for you Europeans who think they're so god damn smart, there's a thing called Federalism which severely curtails Federal power over states. It's part of the law, and was a serious point of contention during the orginal Continental Congress. And it's the reason why the federal government can't just ride in and save the day. Because it's illegal unless certain conditions are met and procedures followed.

protein
09-09-2005, 14:11:14
That's awful. Each man for himself etc.

Provost Harrison
09-09-2005, 14:26:18
Well that is why you need to refine your system's model Venom, it has just demonstrated it's woeful ineffectiveness...

Funko
09-09-2005, 14:31:45
From what Trip was saying it's the Feds (EMEA) who are fucking things up, the locals are mostly doing ok.

fp
09-09-2005, 14:35:21
It's FEMA, surely.

Funko
09-09-2005, 14:41:54
:lol:

I think EMEA is the old European grouping for Lotus Business Partners.

MoSe
09-09-2005, 14:52:04
IIRC EMEA stood for East Mediterranean Europe & Asia...
not a company-specific acronym

MoSe
09-09-2005, 14:53:02
actually,
it's Europe, Middle East & Africa (http://www.microsoft.com/emea/)...

Funko
09-09-2005, 14:55:08
Ah that's probably it. :D

Venom
09-09-2005, 15:11:51
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Well that is why you need to refine your system's model Venom, it has just demonstrated it's woeful ineffectiveness...

Well considering how much everyone in pretty much the entire world hates the US federal government, I'd think they'd want to not give them even more power. Of course, I guess the also falls under the same umbrella of "Well the US government is shit, but we sure do like them paying for everything and saving us when we act retarded."

No longer Trippin
10-09-2005, 00:15:57
I personally don't know of any real misappropriations of money from congress since it isn't really in our hands generally, it's mostly earmarks for flood control projects handled by the Corp - and they handle that down to the contractor and at times subcontracting level. Another Karl Rove spinfest in action. I don't doubt some slipped through the cracks into other pet projects (this is Louisiana afterall), but even if none did, what we've been given over the years just isn't enough for shoring up against a slow cat 3 let alone a near direct hit by Katrina packing 160 mph sustained winds.

Levees sink as does everything else here that isn't resting on bedrock (30-60 ft down depending on region). Otherwise it is resting on large deposits of silt that accumulated over the years. Driving a foundation for a levee 30 ft deep into the group would be prohibitively expensive and cost far more than have to restore the levees to their proper height. The corps readily acknowledged before this that some parts of the system could be as much as 6 feet to shallow either in overall height or in the foundation the wall is built into - both of which aren't good at all.

As for the dome holding up to 200 mph winds, it could - just when you have glass flying around at 160 mph and anything else 160 mph winds can pick up in the CBD from offices, it can't withstand the impacts. The arena faired much better with only some leakage and flooding mainly as the dome shielded it from debris and it's structure doesn't depend on a rubber/silcon membrane to stay intact in such conditions. As for the dome, the glass tears the water proof membrane like a knife through butter. That is resting above the shell, spraying it under would cause the dome to collaspe not to mention expose the superstructure to the elements, and it isn't designed for that. That membrane is part of it's structural integrity in hurricane conditions aborbing the energy from the wind allowing for less flexing of the roof structure itself as it can only go so far before it'd collaspe. Then having debris out the wazoo hitting it only breaks an already weakened structure easily. It can withstand 200 mph winds, it can't withstand what accompanies them from the countless highrises that cannot. The Dome is going to be scrapped. It flooded and has an extensive basement system along with the damage done by ceiling breeches and just general damage done by starving thousands of people and letting them riot since the manpower to control them or the food to feed them was sitting somewhere else that only Washington knew about.

The only good news out of this is that the body count very well could be substantially less than predicted, but I still think it'll top a thousand, I'd be highly surprised if it didn't. I didn't see too many of the deceased floating around, but it doesn't take many before you start wondering if that is all there is around you.

As for those who can't bring themselves to donate to the US, that is fine by me. Donate to the RC for humanitarian aid to Niger or any of the other countless hellholes in Africa instead - how about that? They used to be your damned colonies anyhow - you fucked them up with your lines in the sand. You take care of them and we'll take care of ourselves for allowing such a stupid government (not an ignorant one, a stupid one).

This'll probably be my last post for quite awhile as I'm moving (little in my place is left as much was blown out the windows if it wasn't wrapped in plastic and secured in a closet, it was totaled) and then more than likely taking up a job supervising restoration for one of two quite large jobs that my friend's dad has the option of picking up since his business was in St. Charles. He's practically the lone contractor left standing due to location alone thus he's been approached already by practically everyone. I don't see how he can handle any of these without picking up some from other contractors that no longer exist and also hiring a bunch on the spot which isn't good. Still, should keep me busy, and that's something I need desperately at a time like this. Haven't seen my fiance for about two weeks, spoken to quite a few friends, but the conversations generally were the same so that really wasn't something good - especially since I've seen only a couple, and I've been with them for days on end. Anyhow I'll catch you all when I can as what seems to be quite usual now for me over the past several years.

Well here's what's been running around in my head the past two fucking weeks.

Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good
Now, crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move

Take care all - see you when I see you.

protein
10-09-2005, 00:22:39
Keep it up mate. You are doing really, really well. :)

BigGameHunter
10-09-2005, 02:33:01
Good luck NLT...though on different levels, this has been a month from hell for me as well.
Keep your chin up and your hands busy...if you take any comfort from prayer or reflection...don't forget that side of your health too.
I'll be hoping for the best for you.

Greg W
10-09-2005, 03:18:58
I was going to type a whole lot of crap about some of the attitudes presented above, but why bother. People are people, and arguing rarely changes their minds.

The saddest thing is when people find excuses not to help their brothers.*

I wonder. All the people that can't afford it. If they went without beer for a month, just how much they could afford then. But then, that would require a sacrifice, which is better off left to people like Trip...

Keep up the good work, Trip.

*Brother in the global sense, not to be taken literally

devilmunchkin
10-09-2005, 09:18:53
Good to hear you are hanging in there, Trip. Have been in much contact with the friend I have down there. He was one of the lucky ones it seems. All he's got is some damp carpet, blown out windows and missing shingles. However, he is also on the other side of the river from main New Orleans..so that might have made a difference.

To try to explain our government....

well lemme just say something else first..you don't wanna donate to US govt..understandable... don't want to donate to RC...what about cutting Trip a check or wire him something? Just a thought.

ANyway, yes it is always the people that suffer with a government. THe US taxes the shit out of the middle and poor classes and the rich soak it up. The poor wait on waiting lists for years (like i am now) to get assistance while Bush spends billions of dollars on a war that not many support anymore. But Bush can sleep in his comfy satin sheets at night in his Crawford ranch now can't he? While many other's can't even afford to run the Ac...and many many don't even HAVE homes. It's a country that looks good on the outside but once you peel back that gossamer lie, the people inside suffer.

Where I live in San Diego, there isn't even a lot of middle class. There are rich and there are poor. And the rich dominate the poor. But that's typical of history anywhere, isn't it?

And it doesn't help that the government is turning more and more into a damned theocracy. Yes, the US government is making, imo, a LOT of bad decisions. Waging their holy war on the middle east and diverting large amounts of funding to that war where it would prolly be better served at home..yeah. things arn't spectacular here. And now that disaster has struck, the ppl are suffering for the administration they voted in (but since when are ppl logical or smart? I'd argue the majority of americans, being on myself, are rather substandard in smarts not to mention deluded into thinking things are ok..at least the upper middle to upper class). When the american ppl voted bush in, the opened the US up to another 4 years of sinking our funds into foreign policy (though i think all that was accomplished is other countries just hate america more. am i correct?) and completely ignoring domestic policy.

I would not be surprised if the US falls into another Depression..we're overdue anyway.

DaShi
10-09-2005, 12:20:30
Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

It seems that Mr. Bush is as out of touch with reality as his father. Probably more so. At least senior had some life experience. Unfortunately, the last democratic candidate was too far out of reality himself to be much of a contender. Hopefully, the next democratic campaign commission will be a bit more aggressive and not assume it will be an easy win because, "everyone must hate the republicans now."

Trip, good luck with everything. Glad here your ok and that your able to help out.

Drekkus
10-09-2005, 12:24:24
I don't think donating money to RC is a good idea. He'll just booze it up for sure.

Nills Lagerbaak
12-09-2005, 09:36:04
Originally posted by LoD
Of course they didn't :rolleyes:...


MOBIUS, Nills, Provost et al: I'd just like to point out that Tripp' suggested the Red Cross - that's an independent organization focussed on saving lifes, and not a part of the US Government. Are you able to comprehend this fine difference?


Were you there in the week to month following the Tsunami? If you weren't I think I was in a better position to judge.

LoD
21-09-2005, 23:06:40
Of course you have a full right to. Thing is, from what I read in articles published in press I regard as independent and factually accurate, things weren't exactly completely apolitical. And no offense, but I'd rather trust those newspapers.

Anyway, care to actually answer the question that comprises the majority of that post you quoted?

Aredhran
22-09-2005, 09:57:48
It's amazing how much you can miss when you spend 3 weeks in the desert, with no access news papers, television, radio or internet :eek:

I heard about the hurricane when I came back home, but I never realized how bad it was until I read this thread. Trip I am terribly sorry for what happened to you and all the people in New Orleans. It is a great thing that you are spending your energy to help others, not only for them, but for you as well.

Keep it up, and good luck

MDA
22-09-2005, 14:12:10
Originally posted by DaShi
Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.


Gray or Brown?

Gary
03-11-2005, 09:15:12
US hurricane damage 'preventable' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4401692.stm)

Well I guess everyone suspected that might be a factor.