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Beta1
12-08-2005, 09:38:48
Is bloody great.

One of the best meals I have had in ages.

The chocolate nemesis is truely lethal. It just leaves you sitting there spaced out for about 20 minutes unable to think straight.

Funko
12-08-2005, 09:39:43
Excellent. It's good it lives up to its name!

How much did it cost?

Funko
12-08-2005, 09:40:45
Never mind, seen the menu online. Was it a special occasion? :)

Nills Lagerbaak
12-08-2005, 09:50:58
Where is the river cafe?

Funko
12-08-2005, 09:55:15
London. ;)

Gary
12-08-2005, 10:19:23
Originally posted by Funko
Excellent. It's good it lives up to its name!The food tastes like river water ? :eek:

Funko
12-08-2005, 10:22:26
No, the Chocolate Nemesis lives up to its name.

Resource Consumer
12-08-2005, 10:35:39
Where in London?

protein
12-08-2005, 10:35:49
This Italian place that has it's own tv show?

Resource Consumer
12-08-2005, 10:36:01
and don't say by the bloody river or try and own goal me:)

Funko
12-08-2005, 10:37:07
You lot can use google just as well as me!

http://www.rivercafe.co.uk/

Hammersmith

Funko
12-08-2005, 10:37:29
Originally posted by protein
This Italian place that has it's own tv show?

Yes.

protein
12-08-2005, 10:39:05
wow.

that tv show makes me drool.

Funko
12-08-2005, 10:40:17
Yeah. :D

mr.G
12-08-2005, 11:06:02
Originally posted by Funko
Yes. no no no no mistertje, you arrrrr the king of google

zmama
12-08-2005, 11:09:00
I want the risotto with asparagus!

Provost Harrison
12-08-2005, 11:37:30
Bleeding miles away!

Beta1
12-08-2005, 12:02:04
came to about 65quid per head, mainly because we went for the cheaper wine (still a very good montepulciano).

First leaving do of several.

Its on the river about halfway between putney bridge and hammersmith bridge.

Provost Harrison
12-08-2005, 12:06:48
SIXTY-FIVE QUID?!

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:11:19
I thought that was relatively good considering.

A meal with starters, desserts and wine at a bog standard restaurant is going to be at least 30 a head and this is one of the most famous restaurants in the country.

Provost Harrison
12-08-2005, 12:13:17
I've never heard of it before :p

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:15:30
It's where Jamie Oliver got famous. They did a documentary about the place when he worked there which is where he was spotted.

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:15:53
He wasn't head chef or anything, just worked in the kitchen.

Nills Lagerbaak
12-08-2005, 12:16:04
I wouldn't say 30 for a bog standard resaurant, I'd say middle upper. 65 quid is a lot.

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:18:16
Bog standard restaurant:

Starter 4, main course 7, dessert 3, Wine 12 (assuming a bottle each over 3 courses, maybe I drink too much)

Total 26
Tip 3

29

That's fairly cheap I think?

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:18:43
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
I wouldn't say 30 for a bog standard resaurant, I'd say middle upper. 65 quid is a lot.

Sure, but it's a top restaurant, not the kind of place you go every day.

MoSe
12-08-2005, 12:37:21
Originally posted by Beta1
came to about 65quid per head,

6Squid per head?????

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:41:46
It's got a Michelin Star as well.

mr.G
12-08-2005, 12:43:31
I have a brown star

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:44:06
Is it hairy?

mr.G
12-08-2005, 12:44:56
yaaay dirty hairy

mr.G
12-08-2005, 12:45:17
do you feel lucky......punk

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:45:26
Ask yourself one question, do I feel lucky? Well do ya?

mr.G
12-08-2005, 12:46:05
nice Xpost

Funko
12-08-2005, 12:46:37
:lol:

Beta1
12-08-2005, 13:01:33
Originally posted by Funko
Bog standard restaurant:

Starter 4, main course 7, dessert 3, Wine 12 (assuming a bottle each over 3 courses, maybe I drink too much)

Total 26
Tip 3

29

That's fairly cheap I think?

starters were 7-15 (except for the langustines which were 20)
main courses 25-35
deserts 7-10
add in coffee and wine (starts at about 20 but goes up as far as you want, had a good montepulciano and a gavi for about the same)

MoSe
12-08-2005, 13:06:07
:hmm: Rose Gray and Ruth Rogers?
Is there some italian cook at least?

Some of the compositions seem a bit too "original" even for an original restaurant...


BTW, all cuisine critics here keep bitching how our restaurants are backwards in applying 1~3 as "coperto" ("cover charge"? = a fixed contribution for the table setting costs and complimentary bread and such), because in civilised european countries that has been dropped long ago by including and distributing such costs into the single dish prices, and how that would drive foreign tourists away.


I see here that rivercafe applies 12.5 overcharge for "service", now, THAT's something I haven't seen applied here in thelast 10 years, or maybe even 20...

Funko
12-08-2005, 13:11:16
The "service charge" is the tip basically.

Some places make it compulsory, some say "service not included" telling you you need to tip the staff and The River Cafe have said that it's an "optional" charge.

mr.G
12-08-2005, 13:11:50
or maybe even 50...

Funko
12-08-2005, 13:14:29
I don't think that making the "service charge" compulsory, or adding it to the bill is good at all. In fact it's bad.

Provost Harrison
12-08-2005, 13:15:07
I don't like this obligation of having to tip...

Funko
12-08-2005, 13:16:00
Rose Gray and Ruth Rogers?
Is there some italian cook at least?

Some of the compositions seem a bit too "original" even for an original restaurant...

Not sure, there wasn't when they started. It was set up as "italian inspired" so they took Italian cooking ideas but applied it to local ingredients.

MoSe
12-08-2005, 13:24:28
Originally posted by Beta1
starters were 7-15 (except for the langustines which were 20)
main courses 25-35
deserts 7-10
add in coffee and wine (starts at about 20 but goes up as far as you want, had a good montepulciano and a gavi for about the same)

Looking at the menu from the linked site, you'll see that it's organised differently.

You don't have a "main course" but "primi" (= firsts, that's pasta or rice dishes) and "secondi" (self-explanatory, that's meat or fish dishes)
That's typically italian vs. rest of europe.
And in showoff places, they indeed have a separeted desserts menu...

If you equate "main course" with secondi, you miss out on the pasta, because almost no italian restaurant has pasta or rice as side serving with a meat dish (that would be indeed a single, main, comprehensive course), like I've seen instead in Germany or in Chino/Indian places.

Thus, a "complete" meal in an italian restaurant would be

Starter
Primo
Secondo (+ev. veggie sideserving if not included)
(ev. chees, rare or in place of Secondo)
Dessert
Coffee and/or Liquor (ev. w/ biscuits)

Sadly, as modern times seem to have made everyone shy to eat "too much" in public, most of my friends now skip either Primo or Secondo in restaurants, de facto conforming to the more international Starter/Main/Dessert schema...

Funko
12-08-2005, 13:29:39
Interesting I hadn't noticed that about the menu but you are right.

Apparently eating your carbs seperately from your meat & veg is better for digestion.

Funko
12-08-2005, 13:30:17
primi/secondi is the plural primo/secondo the singular?

Venom
12-08-2005, 13:32:58
65 quid? My crap better taste good after that much.

Beta1
12-08-2005, 13:34:26
yeah the menu has starters, primi, secondi and dessert sections but you will be pretty much incapable of moving if you try and eat all four courses!

So most people have three and either order primi and secondi or starter and secondi.

The service charge is optional, but the service is fantastic. Friendly and efficient but not formal or overly intrusive as I have seen in many other big name places.

MoSe
12-08-2005, 13:34:42
Originally posted by Funko
The "service charge" is the tip basically.

Some places make it compulsory, some say "service not included" telling you you need to tip the staff and The River Cafe have said that it's an "optional" charge.

an "optional" charge at a fixed rate? "who" decides the "option"?

When we used to have "12% service" in the menu it was automatically calculated on the subtotal and then added for the grand total, it was a surreptitious way of hiding away part of the price from the dishes when you chose them. For instance you see in the menu a 40 Filet and you don't consider it costs 45 actually.


I usually leave a 5-10% tip if I have the change and the service wasn't dreadful.
For sure when there was a specific "12% service" item in the bill I didn't leave ANY extra penny after paying the precise total

MoSe
12-08-2005, 13:35:23
Originally posted by Funko
primi/secondi is the plural primo/secondo the singular?
correct

Funko
12-08-2005, 13:35:48
No, definitely not. I wouldn't either.

MoSe
12-08-2005, 13:41:31
Originally posted by Funko
Interesting I hadn't noticed that about the menu but you are right.

Apparently eating your carbs seperately from your meat & veg is better for digestion.

I'd stress "apparently", I don't think there's conclusive or at least widely agreed upon scientific evidence for that, although it's a theory brought forth by many (mainly the carbs/prots, never heard about the carbs/vegs separation).

And anyway, the tastiest pastas have dressings including meats or fish, or cheese/eggs. And all dressings are mostly with vegs.
Similarly, meat/fish secondi are often accompanied by potatoes, ev. mashed.

I think the Primi/Secondi organisation is more traditional than nutritional

Funko
12-08-2005, 13:43:07
Yes, true. :) Definitely very "apparently" :)

Beta1
12-08-2005, 13:47:49
Originally posted by MoSe
an "optional" charge at a fixed rate? "who" decides the "option"?

When we used to have "12% service" in the menu it was automatically calculated on the subtotal and then added for the grand total, it was a surreptitious way of hiding away part of the price from the dishes when you chose them. For instance you see in the menu a 40 Filet and you don't consider it costs 45 actually.


I usually leave a 5-10% tip if I have the change and the service wasn't dreadful.
For sure when there was a specific "12% service" item in the bill I didn't leave ANY extra penny after paying the precise total

exactly.

However you are fully within your rights to cross the service charge off the bill and pay only the menu price.

Just don't expect to be welcomed back.

I would actually prefer it if they did away with the tip/service and just increased the prices appropriately to pay the staff.

Also I always check whether the service charge goes to the staff or to the managment. If it doesn't go to the staff I will cross it out and leave a tip in cash for the staff instead.

MoSe
12-08-2005, 13:54:17
Originally posted by Beta1
yeah the menu has starters, primi, secondi and dessert sections but you will be pretty much incapable of moving if you try and eat all four courses!
Well, dare me! :D

Until my say 33-35, I often parsed the city and traveled the nearby conutry with my uncle looking for restaurants (those reviewed by the guides and such).
I never thought or felt too stuffed to renounce to one of the FOUR courses :D
Esp as the bill was on my uncle! (car, driving, gas, tolls and such costs were on me)


Originally posted by Beta1
The service charge is optional, but the service is fantastic. Friendly and efficient but not formal or overly intrusive as I have seen in many other big name places.
As I said above, if that's optional, why specify in the menu that it has to be 12.5%? that's odd. "If you want, you can leave a 12.5% tip". Do'h!
For sure I could leave 6.13% or 17.84% if I felt like, or?

MoSe
12-08-2005, 13:55:19
X-post :)

Interesting, when the service was calculated in Italy years ago, I never saw it as an optional item you could cross out, it became integral part of the bill.

MoSe
12-08-2005, 14:00:35
Enough talking, next London CG meeting will be at RiverCafe instead of RoundTable!!!

:)

Beta1
12-08-2005, 14:08:28
Originally posted by MoSe
X-post :)

Interesting, when the service was calculated in Italy years ago, I never saw it as an optional item you could cross out, it became integral part of the bill.

Over here you are even allowed to dispute the bill if you believe the food does not acurately represent the descripion/qualoty implied by the menu. But don't expect to get away with that unless you have specifically complained about a course when it arrived.

Funko
12-08-2005, 14:13:56
Originally posted by MoSe
Enough talking, next London CG meeting will be at RiverCafe instead of RoundTable!!!

:)

Sounds good to me. :)

Japher
12-08-2005, 14:14:52
sounds like you brits are moving up in the world

Drekkus
12-08-2005, 14:16:47
Originally posted by Funko
Bog standard restaurant:

Starter 4, main course 7, dessert 3, Wine 12 (assuming a bottle each over 3 courses, maybe I drink too much)

Total 26
Tip 3

29

That's fairly cheap I think? Just 7 for a main course? usually a starter is about 1/3 of the main course price?

Japher
12-08-2005, 14:17:29
guess not... you all just found somewhere cheaper.

Funko
12-08-2005, 14:21:53
At the top end we've got some of the best restaurants in the world, our mid level restaurants are slowly being dragged up to a decent standard too.

In the last "Best Restaurants in the World" awards Britain had 14 entries, including the winner compared to France and the US which both only had 10 each.

http://www.worldpress.org/Americas/2090.cfm

I'm not saying that that is the definitive list but it shows how we're progressing, at the high end London is one of the best places to eat in the world along with New York and Paris.

Nills Lagerbaak
12-08-2005, 14:22:06
I don't think I'd ever pay 25-35 for a main, it just won't live up to it!

I think 16 main, 5 starter and 4 for dessert. And 5 punds worth of wine.

Yes funko, you do drink too much and just gos to show thay BYOs are the way forward.

The above prices are for what I'd call a middle to smart restaurant.

Funko
12-08-2005, 14:22:29
Originally posted by Drekkus
Just 7 for a main course? usually a starter is about 1/3 of the main course price?

Yeah, I was a bit low I guess. Could probably be more like 3 starter and 8 main but totals are the same then.

Funko
12-08-2005, 14:23:41
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
I don't think I'd ever pay 25-35 for a main, it just won't live up to it!

I think 16 main, 5 starter and 4 for dessert. And 5 punds worth of wine.


5 pounds of wine is less than half a bottle at a mid/smart restaurant. That's nothing for three courses.

Japher
12-08-2005, 14:23:49
math suks

so does speling

Funko
12-08-2005, 14:25:07
You don't "bring your own" booze at any but the lowest quality places. Well there isn't anywhere in Reading I can think of where you an byo, in Birmingham they had some but only at really cheap balti places aimed at students.

Nills Lagerbaak
12-08-2005, 14:26:03
Originally posted by Funko
5 pounds of wine is less than half a bottle at a mid/smart restaurant. That's nothing for three courses.

Yeah, agreed, say 10 pouns worth of house wine you're still talking 35 for a mid/smart, not 30 for a bog standard.

It just goes to show how much is spent on wine though..

Bog standard would be

3.50 starter, 8 main, 3.50 dessert

15 quid!

Plus a whole bottle will then bring you to the 30 mark.

Funko
12-08-2005, 14:27:23
Which is pretty much exactly what I said. :lol:

Nills Lagerbaak
12-08-2005, 14:28:59
Originally posted by Funko
You don't "bring your own" booze at any but the lowest quality places. Well there isn't anywhere in Reading I can think of where you an byo, in Birmingham they had some but only at really cheap balti places aimed at students.

Trust me, that's purely a Reading phenomenon. There are some excellent BYOs in Bristol and London.

http://www.hullaballoos.co.uk/

is one to note

The Norks
12-08-2005, 14:35:53
65 squid is pretty good for a top restaurant- Ramsay's restaurants start at about 100 per head. I have some of the River cafe cook books, I'd love to go there.

Funko
12-08-2005, 15:48:37
Well... not quite. I was researching that as part of this thread.

Gordon Ramsey @ Claridges has a 60 a head 3 course a la carte menu and apparently his flagship Gordon Ramsey restaurant comes in at about 75 a head average.

Japher
12-08-2005, 15:49:45
If ever I become a Chef I will be sure to be an ass, that way I can charge more.

Drekkus
12-08-2005, 15:50:26
Originally posted by Funko
Well... not quite. I was researching that as part of this thread.

Gordon Ramsey @ Claridges has a 60 a head 3 course a la carte menu and apparently his flagship Gordon Ramsey restaurant comes in at about 75 a head average. That's without the wine, yes?

Funko
12-08-2005, 15:51:21
Yep, wine from 18

Funko
12-08-2005, 15:51:46
But that's Michelin 3 star

Japher
12-08-2005, 15:52:42
I only buy Goodyear

mr.G
12-08-2005, 15:54:25
Originally posted by Funko
But that's Michelin 3 star hmmmmm that's like two more...............punk

Beta1
12-08-2005, 17:11:50
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
I don't think I'd ever pay 25-35 for a main, it just won't live up to it!


you should try the scallops at the river cafe man,

Thats some seriously amazing stuff.

Beta1
12-08-2005, 17:17:53
I would really like to go to the new gary rhodes place

Rhodes 24 or Rhodes 42 I can't remember which.

Gary
12-08-2005, 17:59:18
Rhodes 24
Tower 42
25 Old Broad Street
London
EC2N 1HQ

Provost Harrison
12-08-2005, 22:37:55
The Natwest Tower?

Beta1
12-08-2005, 23:02:56
I knew there was a 42 in there somewhere

Provost Harrison
12-08-2005, 23:23:26
Is it at the top? Must be a great view from the top because you can't see Tower 42 :lol:

Funko
15-08-2005, 09:16:35
I thought you liked skyscrapers.

Provost Harrison
15-08-2005, 17:45:47
On the whole, yes. I still think some are pretty ugly though :D

Funko
16-08-2005, 09:11:34
Yeah, they should like have some regulations to make sure ugly ones don't get built or something.

mr.G
16-08-2005, 09:15:43
og