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Darkstar
09-04-2002, 06:10:30
Well... the reason for the delays in MoO3 has been revealed in the MoO3 forums.

According to the developers? They are taking out all the Auto-Manage that is in the game. Seems that the computer is doing all the micro-managing, just like they planned. Only, it turns out that it's just too dumb to be trusted to do such important things. Imagine that?

Also, they probably should have paid more to the MoO3 volunteers that actually designed their game. They got rid of them about 9 months back, and it turns out they cannot figure out how to knock out all that Auto-Manage stuff, and finish crumpling the snags in their code. Oh well.

So what in store for MoO3 future? Well, they are currently streamlining the game, removing about 90% of it, and only leaving the pretty bits. So... no telling what the final product will be.

But it won't be stuck on permanent 'Under AI control' for all your planets and ships at least.

I'm still hopeful, although whenever I hear of a team is ripping everything apart and tossing out practically everything all of 3 months before the NEW shipping date... I know I'm just being plain pigheaded stubborn in being hopeful.

Looks like this game will slide even more... or not be what they've been showing off these past 6 months. Unless the true Powers of Gaming smile upon the game.

I suppose miracles CAN happen though... you never know...

Vincent Fandango
09-04-2002, 09:19:11
Simply reinstall MOO2

Nav
09-04-2002, 09:27:01
Whenever I see the title abbreviated I think it's a Dairy Farm Simulator.. :D

Venom
09-04-2002, 13:52:34
Why didn't you post a link on the front page Nav?

DaShi
09-04-2002, 13:56:30
Originally posted by Nav
Whenever I see the title abbreviated I think it's a Dairy Farm Simulator.. :D

Sid Meier's Dairy Farm Simulator :)

Snapcase
09-04-2002, 15:38:52
Sid Meier's Milk!

Sean
09-04-2002, 16:43:50
Sid Meier’s Sim Milk.

MDA
09-04-2002, 17:07:23
Will Moo2 run on XP?


Sid Meier's Sim Soy Milk. (redundant?)

Venom
09-04-2002, 17:12:57
You should be able to get MOO2 working on XP.

Darkstar
09-04-2002, 22:08:26
MoO1 is a better game then MoO2.

Venom
09-04-2002, 23:51:08
I haven't played MOO 1 in such a long time I can't remember how good it was.

Darkstar
10-04-2002, 04:04:57
HEATHEN! HERETIC!

BURN HIM!

Venom
10-04-2002, 11:21:07
I do have moo 2 installed still though.

MDA
10-04-2002, 15:37:12
I expect Moo1 would be a little hard to find, now. If I saw it cheap, I'd probably pick it up. I'm sure its cheap, if its out there at all.

Deacon
10-04-2002, 23:33:42
I'd rather play SE4 nowadays. The last time I played MOO2, I kept noticing things that I could only do in SE4.

MOO3 could still be decent. They just need to make the guns progressively cooler. :)

Guy
11-04-2002, 12:16:44
If the interface on SE4 didn't cause me to scream in wretching horror every time I try to deal with it, I would agree with you, Deacon, that game has some very good ideas in it. For playability and just plain fun, though, MoO2 still wins for me.

As for MoO3, trawling the message boards at Quicksilver leads me to believe that Darkstar is being overly cynical (there's a switch, huh?) and that this game still has a fair bit of hope left. More than Stars! Supernova Genesis does at this point anyhow...

Beta1
11-04-2002, 12:29:35
whats se4?

(not an 100-0 attempt)

Guy
11-04-2002, 12:53:32
Space Empires 4

(and Own Goal anyway, you twat!)

Darkstar
11-04-2002, 17:27:57
Well, that where we *start* at this place, isn't it? Anytime AI or smart peasants are included with a game?

MoO3 removing then is sure to be seen as another affirming nod that micromanaging is the ONLY way for a while longer.

It's Quicksilver. I have a lot of faith in them. But if they are doing what they said they are, I don't expect to see MoO3 until about Christmas. Just too much to be done.

And the fact that they are streamlining the whole thing (because now that they have to make the player Micromanage everything, it's just too much) and yanking out lots sets off alarms. Unless they take the game back to MoO1's strategic simplicity, that's a huge, huge chance for a total bullox. Not many companies manage to avoid releasing a crappy product after starting down that trail... eventually, it has to be published, and we don't know if QS gets the final word on when it ships or not. Their *original* serious projections for MoO3 had been Q3 of 2002, so sliding back from Q2 to Q3 isn't really a big deal. But past that? Contracts are contracts...

Think about it... they are going to have to rebalance the game, once they are done with these major changes. Will they have time? QS does fantastic work, and I have faith in them. But realities are realities.

The alarm bells mean 'Let someone else rush out and buy it... see what they say'. Don't know if I have the patience for that, though. This is MoO we are talking about. ;)

MDA
11-04-2002, 18:38:17
The alarm bells mean 'Let someone else rush out and buy it... see what they say'. Don't know if I have the patience for that, though. This is MoO we are talking about.

I got burned on Civ3 this way, and on plenty of other games. I don't expect to change my behavior either, however.:)

It bugs me that they've really taken what appear to be the risky original ideas out of the game and mainstreamed it to sell better (IFP!). Too much of that "bottom line" thinking stifles creativity and innovation that could (but might not) pay off big time. Then again, maybe those ideas just didn't work. I don't know, and now I never will. I think we have to expect all the real genre-redefining innovation to come from struggling startups that may NEED to take those risks. As long as I keep my Moo3 expectations low, I'm bound to find the game worth a whirl.

Did the 5X game just became 4.1X?

Guy
12-04-2002, 14:09:13
Darkstar,

Where do you see that they are removing ALL automation? You may be correct, but in looking through the announcements (when I looked through, I ignored the member comments and only read the statements from actual employees) the producer (Bill Westin?) only said that they were taking out IFP's because they made the early game too uninvolving and that they would be using another method to reduce micromanagement. I don't see that as being a total do-over, just something that didn't work and needs fixed. I could be wrong (or jsut overly optimistic), but I'll wait until the official changes list is released (next week?) before making up my mind whether this is a write-off or not.

Don't matter, I won't be among the first to get this no matter how good it seems. I tend to wait for the customer reviews even on games I know I'll love. Until then, I'll just stubbornly keep my hopes up.;)

Darkstar
13-04-2002, 05:57:02
Guy, I don't recall where I saw it exactly now. But with just a few months left, they are *not* going to find anything to take the place of IFP (and that'ts the automation, after all). And they've STATED they are removing lots of features to make their 3rd Quarter release date previously. So, alarm bells. If they had another year, sure. But they've gone past the point of no return...

Unless they really slide it back.

But I'll still hope...

OldWarrior_42
13-04-2002, 10:52:12
huge chance for a total bullox.

So DS is not my AE.... he is an AE of one of our UK friends. Bullox. And he didn't spell it proper , either. :D

Seriousness mode... commenting on something MDA posted. I don't think any established game companies will take the "big innovative risk" anymore. They know they can sell their games to the masses with very little innovation and make their money. They are, after all in this business to simply make money, and nowadays the business end is now more important then the "doing it for the love of games" part.

It is usually what happens once an industry becomes big and huge. :D and starts to sell to the less informed mass public.

As MDA stated , however... it will probably take a small upstart company to take that risk... so as to make their mark and distinguish themselves. Then they will reach the masses and sit on their laurels like everyone else.

I am really hoping that Brian Reynolds comes up with some innovative fun stuff with RoN. But I think that is just me in a fantasy mode. :) One can hope, can't one?

Darkstar
14-04-2002, 08:28:11
Well, I had very high hopes for MoO3. QuickSilver went to THEM, asked if they could do the sequel, out of their own love of the series.

I still have some hope, but then, I've had a chance to bury my head in the sand again. ;)

Deacon
19-04-2002, 22:30:56
I think getting rid of automation could be a good thing. I certainly wouldn't trust AIs to DO things. But they might be useful to notify the player. One of my peeves in SE4 is how suddenly, a neighboring empire claims a system I have ships in, and then declares war within 10 turns. A great feature would be a "flexible notifier". Another good thing to have would be a "ship population from X to Y every Z turns until turn N" AI.

Sirius Black
19-04-2002, 23:50:10
Well that, and they've fired all the PR people, and the head designer (Alan Emrich). There was a big uproar on the Poly Moo3 forums, when it was found out that any moderator that wasn't towing the line on the official forums was removed.

That, and they've cut a lot. The first cut was my favorite part (Ethos), and now it's IFPs.. it seems like they decided Moo3 wasn't worth it, but Moo2.5 just might be.

Darkstar
24-04-2002, 06:47:05
SB... now, that REALLY sucks. I liked Alan, from the few times we chatted together.