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The Norks
13-06-2005, 12:29:57
I am thinking of learning it and just wondered if anyone had any experience of it.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 12:30:46
no shit, I do.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 12:31:12
first serious post of the day


:applause:

Funko
13-06-2005, 12:32:05
My little brother does it, he's really into it. I don't know much about it though.

Funko
13-06-2005, 12:32:31
I'm very cynical about that kind of stuff. :D

Cruddy
13-06-2005, 12:34:38
I'll occasionally use it for close friends, but non-contact only (and they have to be seriously in need of it).

I find it very tiring. Even a 10 minute session leaves me heading straight for the sack.

protein
13-06-2005, 12:36:27
Only when there are loads of leafies on the lawn.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 12:39:22
is that Roads of Reafies on the Rawn spoken by non-chinese-people?

The Norks
13-06-2005, 13:23:03
Originally posted by Funko
I'm very cynical about that kind of stuff. :D

well we know we have different beliefs so lets not go there!

where did everyone learn their reiki? how do you really know its working etc?

The Norks
13-06-2005, 13:24:04
Originally posted by mr.G
no shit, I do.

whats your experience?

mr.G
13-06-2005, 13:29:52
healing and all, like Cruddy said, no fun in that, it absorbes energy.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 13:38:30
its unusual that its all the men being healers. I'm interested to know how/where yo learnt and what drew you o it etc, and what level you're at?

I like the idea of healing, all my mum's close friends are healers.

I would like to heal my angry hamsters so they stop biting me.

Nills Lagerbaak
13-06-2005, 13:45:27
You gotta believe!

mr.G
13-06-2005, 13:47:39
Originally posted by The Norks
its unusual that its all the men being healers. I'm interested to know how/where yo learnt and what drew you o it etc, and what level you're at?

I like the idea of healing, all my mum's close friends are healers.

I would like to heal my angry hamsters so they stop biting me.

It is something you already knew when you were a child, at least in my case

for the hamsters, put them under water for half an hour.

Immortal Wombat
13-06-2005, 13:57:22
:lol:

The Norks
13-06-2005, 14:38:12
no way

they are my lickle babies. Bully bit my hand today. The bugger.

so what type of healing do you do Mr G?

mr.G
13-06-2005, 14:42:22
mostly insanity

protein
13-06-2005, 14:45:40
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
You gotta believe!
It works if you believe, it's a waste of time if you don't. Which means it's completely mind controlled which means you can do away with thecrystal wearing hippy waving his hands over you and just do it yourself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4613759.stm

King_Ghidra
13-06-2005, 14:47:01
well said :beer:

The Norks
13-06-2005, 14:55:13
I dont think thats true at all actually, and plenty of sceptics are healed.

King_Ghidra
13-06-2005, 15:04:19
well using your mental powers why don't you heal protein of his opinion

MoSe
13-06-2005, 15:07:51
I had never ever heard of it before this thread.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 15:15:37
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
well using your mental powers why don't you heal protein of his opinion

I'm not interested in your sarky comments and scepticism. I know enough healers to know that healing can work. If you don't believe it can thats ok, but in that case fuck off out of the thread. I asked if anyone here had had or learnt it, you obviously haven't so you have nothing to contribute but your petty jibes. Grow up.

protein
13-06-2005, 15:19:22
Can you give any links to studies that prove waving your hands over someone heals them of diseases? What physical process takes place when you wave your hands over someone?

King_Ghidra
13-06-2005, 15:31:06
Originally posted by The Norks
I'm not interested in your sarky comments and scepticism. I know enough healers to know that healing can work. If you don't believe it can thats ok, but in that case fuck off out of the thread. I asked if anyone here had had or learnt it, you obviously haven't so you have nothing to contribute but your petty jibes. Grow up.

apologies, i shall start the 'why mystical psychic healing is a load of bollocks' thread forthwith

Nills Lagerbaak
13-06-2005, 15:31:51
"People who use meditation, including the Dalai Lama have said that the ability to control and direct your thoughts can be very beneficial in terms of mental health."


I think people should focus on this aspect of "mind control" It forms the basis of all psychotherapy for treatment of anxiety and depression, and even short/long sightedness.

I haven't met one person who can convince me of the magic of raiki or anything else that claims to be more than giving the person the ability to control their thoughts.

The Higgelhoff
13-06-2005, 15:34:45
Had it done on me, it's bollocks in my experience.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 15:37:31
well you appear to know everything so maybe you can tell me?

As is clear from my initial post Protein, I have only just started looking into this myself. I didnt ask 'what is your opinion of me learning Reiki?' or 'do you believe in healing?' and I dont really need to be dragged through yet another bollocky conversation with you and a load of other narrow minded twats to that effect. I asked a very directed question for a reason.

As for the physical processes- who knows- do you think we've discovered every law of nature? Because I don't. Its this arrogance I can't stand. You can't even bear to admit the possibility that perhaps something happens in the world that you can't explain.

Unless I go and find out about it I won't know either, but at least I can allow for the possibility. Please remember that acupuncture used to be widely ridiculed and this is now available on the NHS, as are various other complementary therapies. Increasingly, modern medicine is accepting that these therapies have something to offer.

If you have nothing constructive to add to my question or you want a Reiki bashing thread, go away and start your own.

protein
13-06-2005, 15:37:35
me too. ditto.

nills is right. there's a wealth of power to be gained by mastering your own mind and body.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 15:39:40
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
apologies, i shall start the 'why mystical psychic healing is a load of bollocks' thread forthwith

well you're petty enough, so please be my guest.

The Higgelhoff
13-06-2005, 15:40:42
I dont really need to be dragged through yet another bollocky conversation with you and a load of other narrow minded twats to that effect

Just accept it, it's just something gays to to occupy their limp wrists.

Funko
13-06-2005, 15:43:19
"I haven't met one person who can convince me of the magic of raiki or anything else that claims to be more than giving the person the ability to control their thoughts."

Well isn't that the point? Even if the process is just helping people control their own mind and body?

The placebo effect is a very well studied phenomenon. Believing something is going to work can relieve stress and worry about something which can make it seems to aide recovery - especially in minor complaints - even though physically nothing's changing.

Personally I think that has a lot to do with the anecdotal success of alternative therapies.

Anyway, if people believe it and it makes them feel better then what harm's it doing?

protein
13-06-2005, 15:44:43
Surely if you are looking into something like raiki you will want to know

A) if it works
b) if it has been proven to work, how does it work

Instead of attacking anyone who brings up those points.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 15:46:56
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
"People who use meditation, including the Dalai Lama have said that the ability to control and direct your thoughts can be very beneficial in terms of mental health."


I think people should focus on this aspect of "mind control" It forms the basis of all psychotherapy for treatment of anxiety and depression, and even short/long sightedness.

I haven't met one person who can convince me of the magic of raiki or anything else that claims to be more than giving the person the ability to control their thoughts.

ergo, most people need a structure whereby they can do that (or we'd all be doing it automatically) so why not Reiki? Do you think buddhist monks are just sitting there thinking about their shopping list?They have strict meditation structures to follow.

The healing side of reiki isnt about magic or psychic abilities or mystical happenings, its about channeling energy, whether you believe that is a two way process or due to how the recipient feels. Hands on healing has been used since the dawn of man and can be very effective.

protein
13-06-2005, 15:47:44
Originally posted by Funko
"I haven't met one person who can convince me of the magic of raiki or anything else that claims to be more than giving the person the ability to control their thoughts."

Well isn't that the point? Even if the process is just helping people control their own mind and body?

The placebo effect is a very well studied phenomenon. Believing something is going to work can relieve stress and worry about something which can make it seems to aide recovery - especially in minor complaints - even though physically nothing's changing.

Personally I think that has a lot to do with the anecdotal success of alternative therapies.

Anyway, if people believe it and it makes them feel better then what harm's it doing?
That they are paying someone to do a service what doesn't work. Why not learn meditation or creative visualisation or something. Or even ask the hard question of "is there anything actually wrong with me and do I really need to pay some faker to heal me?"

protein
13-06-2005, 15:49:52
as for channeling energy, which energy is this? heat? light?

it's a visualisation process. there is no actual energy there, which begs the question - what's the fucking point?

Funko
13-06-2005, 15:50:58
Norks: You asked if anyone had any experience. Two posters have said they have had experience and thought it was bollocks, but you seem to have just ignored them entirely.

It doesn't seem like you are coming into this discussion wanting to hear both sides of the argument, only looking for anecdotes that support the idea that it works and is good and how to learn it.

One of the problems I have with alternative medicine is ignoring the results that don't fit in with the desired conclusions.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 15:51:47
Originally posted by protein
Surely if you are looking into something like raiki you will want to know

A) if it works
b) if it has been proven to work, how does it work

Instead of attacking anyone who brings up those points.

Yes I would like to know those things and I am quite capable of investigating them myself thanks. That was one of the reasons for starting this thread before you and K_G hijacked it to try and show that you know better. I'm not a baby, I don't need my world view setting right by you pair of goons thanks all the same. I don't criticise the crap you two come out with, so stop fucking doing it to me. I wouldn't mind if you asked a reasonable question or made a reasonable point but you don't you just jump straight in assuming what I think I know and assuming you know better. You can bollox.

Funko
13-06-2005, 15:51:57
Originally posted by protein
That they are paying someone to do a service what doesn't work. Why not learn meditation or creative visualisation or something. Or even ask the hard question of "is there anything actually wrong with me and do I really need to pay some faker to heal me?"

I guess I am so naive that I hadn't considered that you would pay/charge for it. :o

protein
13-06-2005, 15:54:29
Originally posted by The Norks
Yes I would like to know those things and I am quite capable of investigating them myself thanks. That was one of the reasons for starting this thread before you and K_G hijacked it to try and show that you know better. I'm not a baby, I don't need my world view setting right by you pair of goons thanks all the same. I don't criticise the crap you two come out with, so stop fucking doing it to me. I wouldn't mind if you asked a reasonable question or made a reasonable point but you don't you just jump straight in assuming what I think I know and assuming you know better. You can bollox.
you asked for opinions. I've had raiki done to me on three occasions.

Funko
13-06-2005, 15:54:34
Originally posted by The Norks
Yes I would like to know those things and I am quite capable of investigating them myself thanks. That was one of the reasons for starting this thread before you and K_G hijacked it to try and show that you know better. I'm not a baby, I don't need my world view setting right by you pair of goons thanks all the same. I don't criticise the crap you two come out with, so stop fucking doing it to me. I wouldn't mind if you asked a reasonable question or made a reasonable point but you don't you just jump straight in assuming what I think I know and assuming you know better. You can bollox.

You asked for people with experience of it and protein said he'd had it done to him and it didn't work. Which was your initial question. He's just answering you.

So why can't he say that?

And all K_G did was agree that if anything all Raiki did was to help people channel their own minds and bodies which hardly seems that extreme, then he made a joke. Which you attacked him for and he responded.

protein
13-06-2005, 15:55:23
now massage, massage is great. there's nothing as invigorating as an excellent massage.

King_Ghidra
13-06-2005, 15:56:52
Originally posted by The Norks
well you're petty enough, so please be my guest.

mmm, so if i disagree with you in this thread i can fuck off, and if i start another thread to discuss the issues you don't want to talk about then i'm petty

riiiiiight :rolleyes:

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:02:56
Originally posted by Funko
Norks: You asked if anyone had any experience. Two posters have said they have had experience and thought it was bollocks, but you seem to have just ignored them entirely.

It doesn't seem like you are coming into this discussion wanting to hear both sides of the argument, only looking for anecdotes that support the idea that it works and is good and how to learn it.

One of the problems I have with alternative medicine is ignoring the results that don't fit in with the desired conclusions.

The only person who appears to have said that is Higgelhoff and I havent had time to reply to him yet since I have been replying to Laurel and Hardy.

Again Mike, I don't need you to play Jiminy Cricket or tell me how to research something, or to put me straight. I know you love to be Counterglow's Voice of Reason TM, but I can actually reason things out for myself. I may not have a physics degree but I have a basic grasp of science the same as everyone who went to school and I am educated to the same level as you which funnily enough involves being able to analyse data and look for inconsistencies, so quit patronising me.

Perhaps I could have had a reasonable discussion about it had everyone not jumped in with their opinions on what I should/shouldn't be doing/saying./believing.

Perhaps it would also be a more reasonable discussion if any of you took a leaf out of your own book and went and learnt about the subject before wading in like pillocks.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:04:17
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
mmm, so if i disagree with you in this thread i can fuck off, and if i start another thread to discuss the issues you don't want to talk about then i'm petty

riiiiiight :rolleyes:

you didnt disagree with me, you had nothing to say in response to my question so you hijacked a thread for your own usual petty purposes. Go be centre of attention somewhere else.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:07:28
Perhaps it would also be a more reasonable discussion if any of you took a leaf out of your own book and went and learnt about the subject before wading in like pillocks.

Well protein's had it done on him three times and my brother does it and I've talked to him several times about it not to mention reading up quite extensively on different forms of alternative medicine and the scientific basis, associated dangers and benefits. I wouldn't claim to know how to do it, how to learn it or have first hand experience of it but you assume that because I have come to different conclusions to you I have no knowledge.

That's not really fair.

And I didn't mean to be patronising. I don't think I was.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:07:44
Originally posted by Funko
You asked for people with experience of it and protein said he'd had it done to him and it didn't work. Which was your initial question. He's just answering you.

So why can't he say that?

And all K_G did was agree that if anything all Raiki did was to help people channel their own minds and bodies which hardly seems that extreme, then he made a joke. Which you attacked him for and he responded.

I haven't seen him say that until just now.

Mike I don't need your running commentary on this thread- i you have an opinion post it, but stop trying to 'explain' to me what other people are saying and what I am saying back. You do this all the time and it really fucks me off.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:07:51
Originally posted by The Norks
you didnt disagree with me, you had nothing to say in response to my question so you hijacked a thread for your own usual petty purposes. Go be centre of attention somewhere else.

Quite right, this is your center of attention thread not his.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:08:02
Originally posted by The Norks
I know you love to be Counterglow's Voice of Reason TM
Can I be CG's voice of Reason
can I
aaah
just for once

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:09:50
Originally posted by The Norks
I haven't seen him say that until just now.

Mike I don't need your running commentary on this thread- i you have an opinion post it, but stop trying to 'explain' to me what other people are saying and what I am saying back. You do this all the time and it really fucks me off.

You (and others) misunderstanding what everyone says all the time and getting into huge fights about it really annoys me.

This thread has turned into a huge fight for absolutely no reason and everyone posting in it is a friend of mine and I really don't like it when they are kicking off like this, especially when the differences of opinion stated seem so minor.

Excuse me for trying to be the peacemaker. I do think you've been totally unreasonable here to both protein and K_G though.

protein
13-06-2005, 16:11:07
Originally posted by The Norks
but stop trying to 'explain' to me what other people are saying and what I am saying back. You do this all the time and it really fucks me off.
Stop being so blinkered and listen properly so Mike doesn't have to calmly explain it to you in your terms then. He's only trying to diffuse the situation because you got all aggressive.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:11:24
Exactly.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:11:58
Yes because naturally I'm the unreasonable one, and they were both so sensitive and reasonable.

King_Ghidra
13-06-2005, 16:12:14
Specifically:

I dont think thats true at all actually, and plenty of sceptics are healed.

my joking response to which (sorry 'hijacked a thread for your own usual petty purposes') you flipped out at.

You have failed to respond to protein's various questions and points and have instead made a big show of sounding off at me. Its a crap smokescreen.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:13:12
Originally posted by protein
Stop being so blinkered and listen properly so Mike doesn't have to calmly explain it to you in your terms then. He's only trying to diffuse the situation because you got all aggressive.

I can't believe *you* of all people Rob are calling me blinkered. Do you want to be the pot or the kettle?

Mike doesnt have to explain anything, he chooses to do so.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:14:00
Originally posted by The Norks
Yes because naturally I'm the unreasonable one, and they were both so sensitive and reasonable.

K_G made a joke and protein said he'd had it done and thought it was bollocks.

You totally flip out. Cue massive fight over nothing.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:17:08
Originally posted by The Norks
Mike doesnt have to explain anything, he chooses to do so.

Not conciously, my natural reaction to conflicts like this is to try and defuse them.

Nills Lagerbaak
13-06-2005, 16:17:33
Originally posted by The Norks
ergo, most people need a structure whereby they can do that (or we'd all be doing it automatically) so why not Reiki? Do you think buddhist monks are just sitting there thinking about their shopping list?They have strict meditation structures to follow.

The healing side of reiki isnt about magic or psychic abilities or mystical happenings, its about channeling energy, whether you believe that is a two way process or due to how the recipient feels. Hands on healing has been used since the dawn of man and can be very effective.

Agreed, it's all controlling your thoughts, and if you need to pretend that their is some kind of mystic energy flowing from hand to head to concetrate on something that's fine.

I just don't like the mysticism surrounding what is fundamentally a proven scientific process.
More still I don't like the fact people charge a lot of money from something that can be learned (thought control) fvrom a good book on Cognitive Therapy or Meditation.

Hell I've even got a book that shows you how to correct short sightedness by not "straining to see" and it certainly works!

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:19:49
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
Specifically:



my joking response to which (sorry 'hijacked a thread for your own usual petty purposes') you flipped out at.

You have failed to respond to protein's various questions and points and have instead made a big show of sounding off at me. Its a crap smokescreen.

Because I was not interested in having another debate about whether something was valid. Its historically been very clear that my views are significantly different to some of the members here- I am not interested in rehashing that. I was interested in the reponse to the original question, and then I would have liked to have had a conversation about *that* not about what you and Protein wanted to talk about, which as usual you phrased in an attacking 'we know it all' manner, so get off your fucking high horse and stop accusing *me* of being unreasonable.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:19:52
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Agreed, it's all controlling your thoughts, and if you need to pretend that their is some kind of mystic energy flowing from hand to head to concetrate on something that's fine.

I just don't like the mysticism surrounding what is fundamentally a proven scientific process.
More still I don't like the fact people charge a lot of money from something that can be learned (thought control) fvrom a good book on Cognitive Therapy or Meditation.

Hell I've even got a book that shows you how to correct short sightedness by not "straining to see" and it certainly works!

Yeah, thanks Nik that pretty much sums up what I think. (and is pretty much what protein and K_G agreed with?)

Although the short sighted thing would have been more convincing if you weren't wearing your glasses when explaining it...

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:20:54
Originally posted by Funko
K_G made a joke and protein said he'd had it done and thought it was bollocks.

You totally flip out. Cue massive fight over nothing.

YOU'RE STILL DOING IT

protein
13-06-2005, 16:21:11
It's always the person at the party who tries to guess what star sign you are and then they rope you into a raiki session. They keep saying things like "do you feel the energy there?" and because you don't want to hurt their feelings and the whole situation is embarassing for them you say "wow, oh yeah. i feel something." and then you make your escape.

Obviously nowerdays I'd say "what energy do you mean?" and "no, I honestly can't feel a thing, you aren't touching me" and "no I'm not a saggitarius, I'm not also psychic and no I don't have any acid, ask him over there."

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:24:32
Originally posted by The Norks
YOU'RE STILL DOING IT

Yeah, because you're still being totally unreasonable and unfair and not listening to what they are saying.

Unfortunately I'm pretty pig headed and stubborn too.

The Higgelhoff
13-06-2005, 16:25:20
I made an excellent post about limp wrists which was completely ignored. I was expecting fireworks. :cry:

The fact of the matter is; I've experienced it, my girlfriend has and we both went in open minded - with two different people - and it's complete rubbish.

Now I've got nothing to gain by saying this. So look at the facts.

Lurker the Second
13-06-2005, 16:25:49
:lol: This thread is great.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:27:08
It's not, I'm stressed and annoyed now.

:(

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:27:37
I could use some raiki.

Tizzy
13-06-2005, 16:29:30
Step away from the keyboard

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:30:06
a bit like the person at the party who asks you if you like the music thats playing and you say its ok and then you have to suffer a wanky conversation about masturbatory boy music fantasies for three hours whil they recite to you every lyric on their favourite album and tell you how meaningful it is and wha the coked up tosser who wrote it was thinking at the time and how sad that he's left the band and what his producer produced and how that twang noise you can hear is often thought to be a harp but actually its a banjo, and how if you concentrate really really hard you can hear a sample of him talking to his friend in the studio but only certain systems can pick it up and how they can play guitar too and would you like to hear a chord?

Only now of course I come on here for that.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:31:46
Originally posted by Funko
Yeah, because you're still being totally unreasonable and unfair and not listening to what they are saying.

Unfortunately I'm pretty pig headed and stubborn too.

and they are being so open minded and tolerant.

Mike get some balls. I started a reasonable thread and they decided to appropriate it to massage their own egos with

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:32:08
Originally posted by Funko
I could use some raiki. shall i do my long distance reiki.

now i am aiming on your dingding cause those little bastards hurt don't they?

protein
13-06-2005, 16:32:29
Originally posted by The Norks
a bit like the person at the party who asks you if you like the music thats playing and you say its ok and then you have to suffer a wanky conversation about masturbatory boy music fantasies for three hours whil they recite to you every lyric on their favourite album and tell you how meaningful it is and wha the coked up tosser who wrote it was thinking at the time and how sad that he's left the band and what his producer produced and how that twang noise you can hear is often thought to be a harp but actually its a banjo, and how if you concentrate really really hard you can hear a sample of him talking to his friend in the studio but only certain systems can pick it up and how they can play guitar too and would you like to hear a chord?

Only now of course I come on here for that.
yeah, I fucking hate those too. i record alot of people like that.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:33:43
Originally posted by The Norks
a bit like the person at the party who asks you if you like the music thats playing and you say its ok and then you have to suffer a wanky conversation about masturbatory boy music fantasies for three hours whil they recite to you every lyric on their favourite album and tell you how meaningful it is and wha the coked up tosser who wrote it was thinking at the time and how sad that he's left the band and what his producer produced and how that twang noise you can hear is often thought to be a harp but actually its a banjo, and how if you concentrate really really hard you can hear a sample of him talking to his friend in the studio but only certain systems can pick it up and how they can play guitar too and would you like to hear a chord?

Only now of course I come on here for that.



I do think a good old
doooooooooooooooooooo
di
doooooooooooooooooooo
is in order.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:34:32
Originally posted by The Norks
Mike get some balls. I started a reasonable thread and they decided to appropriate it to massage their own egos with

Fuck off.

protein
13-06-2005, 16:34:46
Originally posted by The Norks
and they are being so open minded and tolerant.

Mike get some balls. I started a reasonable thread and they decided to appropriate it to massage their own egos with
In what way? Don't pretend to be so fucking stupid. Re-read the thread and see who's being the arrogant tosser here. You asked whether we had experience or knowledge of something, we all answered and you got angry.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:35:01
Originally posted by The Higgelhoff
I made an excellent post about limp wrists which was completely ignored. I was expecting fireworks. :cry:

The fact of the matter is; I've experienced it, my girlfriend has and we both went in open minded - with two different people - and it's complete rubbish.

Now I've got nothing to gain by saying this. So look at the facts.

it was a good post :)

I'd be interested to hear about your experiences, there is no 'look at the facts' because I didnt ask people to tell me only if they had good experiences. Tell me about it if you want to.

I have noticed they are teaching reiki at my local college and by distance learning somewhat incredibly. I would be interested in seeing what a proper Reiki master could do but when it gets to internet courses and part time evening courses you have o wonder about the quality of some practiioners.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:35:07
hear hear

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:35:48
Originally posted by protein
In what way? Don't pretend to be so fucking stupid. Re-read the thread and see who's being the arrogant tosser here. You asked whether we had experience or knowledge of something, we all answered and you got angry.

you didnt answer with experience or knowledge, you did your usual

Drekkus
13-06-2005, 16:36:22
Originally posted by Lurker the Second
:lol: This thread is great. Come on, you didn't actually read this, right?

protein
13-06-2005, 16:36:26
You can become a raiki master in three hours. My friend Claire is a registered Raiki master.

Lurker the Second
13-06-2005, 16:36:35
You people all act like its nonhotdogday or something. Sheesh, lighten up.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:36:44
Originally posted by Funko
Fuck off.

Certainly, if it means you'll stop explaining things to me.

Drekkus
13-06-2005, 16:38:09
Since when are reasonable threads allowed here???

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:39:16
Originally posted by protein
You can become a raiki master in three hours. My friend Claire is a registered Raiki master.

and thats why I was asking where poeple learnt etc, because I think that level of teaching must necessarily be bollocks, and I wouldnt expect there to be anything she can do you can't learn in a book. Perhaps you could have started with this and we could have had a decent conversation. My general feeling is that to learn something like this properly probably takes years (assuming we can lay aside the issue of validity for a moment)

Where did she do the course?

Lurker the Second
13-06-2005, 16:39:28
Originally posted by Drekkus
Come on, you didn't actually read this, right?

jes, jes jes i did.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:39:45
Originally posted by Lurker the Second
You people all act like its nonhotdogday or something. Sheesh, lighten up. :lol: yaaaay i bet we all are a bit tempered cause of the loss of our orioles.

Lurker the Second
13-06-2005, 16:42:13
That would be perfectly understandable.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:43:43
Originally posted by The Norks
Certainly, if it means you'll stop explaining things to me.

I wish I didn't have to. :p And I'll post what I want.

I was only saying fuck off about the get some balls comment, there was no need for that.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:44:29
I reikied some new ones.
Do you have them yet?

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:44:40
Originally posted by The Norks
and thats why I was asking where poeple learnt etc, because I think that level of teaching must necessarily be bollocks, and I wouldnt expect there to be anything she can do you can't learn in a book. Perhaps you could have started with this and we could have had a decent conversation. My general feeling is that to learn something like this properly probably takes years (assuming we can lay aside the issue of validity for a moment)

Where did she do the course?

Pete learnt on his own. He didn't read a book or do a course, he just found he could do it and practiced. - Same as Mr G by the sounds of it.

Lurker the Second
13-06-2005, 16:44:47
Yes there was. You need balls.

Lurker the Second
13-06-2005, 16:45:34
Damn, double x-post.

Drekkus
13-06-2005, 16:46:54
Originally posted by mr.G
I reikied some new ones.
Do you have them yet? You reiki of manure.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:48:44
I do seem to have a strange feeling in my balls... not sure if it's just unease about MrG thinking about them...

:nervous:

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:50:11
isset a burning sensation?
and is your scrotum doing the scrotum moves?

The Norks
13-06-2005, 16:50:44
Originally posted by Funko
Pete learnt on his own. He didn't read a book or do a course, he just found he could do it and practiced. - Same as Mr G by the sounds of it.

that sounds like hands on healing. Reiki is quite specific, although obviously it encompasses that practise.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:52:22
He definitely calls it Reiki, I don't know if anyone taught him after that.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:52:37
no reiki is just a new name
hey let's call it reiki and doooo di doooo very woooohoooo about it, okay.

Funko
13-06-2005, 16:52:45
Originally posted by mr.G
isset a burning sensation?
and is your scrotum doing the scrotum moves?

More like being nervous!

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:54:42
do you feel the left one icking?

mr.G
13-06-2005, 16:55:36
maybe I reiki some tits on Rob for not believing.

protein
13-06-2005, 16:58:56
Norks, I can't remember the place she went to. She went with her mum who was/is a homeopathic practitioner. They went to some japanese raiki centre in london i believe.

Incedentally her mum once gave me some tablets for heyfever which did fuck all. She gave tablets to a mate for his skin. They did fuck all. They tried raiki on me. It did fuck all.

See a pattern there?

protein
13-06-2005, 16:59:49
and that was back when I was young, impressionable and willing to believe anything.

protein
13-06-2005, 17:01:05
oh, and because they were both masters, they could then teach me to become a master and then I could teach. Certificates and all.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 17:03:44
well homeopathy is a totally separate practise to reiki and if we're talking about pure homeopathy I've met people who have had dramatic transformations in things like acne or eczema and others fuck all, what were they doing the reiki for on you? I think half the problem with complementary therapies is that they seem very hit and miss, and no one really knows why. Also the level of training is unmonitored, and then anyone can set up as a homeopathist or reiki practitioner, so finding a decent person is hard. I don't believe things unless I see them work

The Norks
13-06-2005, 17:05:26
Originally posted by protein
oh, and because they were both masters, they could then teach me to become a master and then I could teach. Certificates and all.

I saw a chinese herbalist once and he was a real scammer. Everyone left with the same bottle in their hand, cost a fortune, did shit all. Saying that tho, I wasnt doing half the things he said.

protein
13-06-2005, 17:10:27
You can become a reiki master over the internet if that helps.

http://www.chikara-reiki-do.com/master.php

protein
13-06-2005, 17:18:16
Originally posted by The Norks
I saw a chinese herbalist once and he was a real scammer. Everyone left with the same bottle in their hand, cost a fortune, did shit all. Saying that tho, I wasnt doing half the things he said.
A bit like gypsies that hex you and sell you heather and the old American medicine men. Every culture has its bollocks.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 17:22:15
hexes can work- whats curious is when they work and the hexee has no knowledge of being hexed. medicine men worked too- they were only using remedial herbs after all.

Funko
13-06-2005, 17:25:06
Yeah, but as you said yourself - if we assume this stuff works for a minute - it can be quite hard to tell who is a real practitioner and who is trying to make a fast buck off unsuspecting punters.

mr.G
13-06-2005, 17:28:40
never ever pay for the treatment
that is unethical

protein
13-06-2005, 17:29:27
Originally posted by The Norks
hexes can work
oh come on. please. :rolleyes: :lol:

The Norks
13-06-2005, 17:30:09
Thats why dont think there is no legitimacy to this stuff, its just bloody hard to locate.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 17:35:42
Originally posted by protein
oh come on. please. :rolleyes: :lol:

they do. they can be incredibly specific and have very physical consequences.

have you ever felt someone's eyes boring into you? I think we can all affect other people at distance, only some more than others.

protein
13-06-2005, 17:39:40
No, I haven't.

Why don't you try doing something to me now. I'm in Reading so send your psychic energy beams in that direction.

protein
13-06-2005, 17:46:25
You know there's a difference in wanting to believe something and it actually being real don't you?

I'd absolutely love to be able to levitate and heal people and send hexes but they just don't exist outside of folklaw. In real life, the one that it totally different from imagination and fiction, these things don't exist. No matter how much you want magic to be true, no matter how many people there are convincing themselves it's true, no matter how much you want to believe, it's just not there.

I'd love for there to be dragons and fairies and goblins and stuff too. Evidence points to them not existing I'm afraid. No matter how much I want dragons to exist, they just dont. It makes me sad but it's the real world and if you look at it in the right way you can be glad you are living what is real and not a fantasy.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 17:50:04
I didnt say I could do it. I'm pretty shit at it although I'm quite good at receiving. I always know when someone's about to call me, or I'm about to bump into someone.

I've had really weird experiences- one where I could physically feel someone looking at me from behind me. I cant explain it. It was the creepiest thing ever. He asked me on a date as I got off the bus lol but the whole time I had the sense there was something not right. I never put my finger on it but he turned up in my kitchen months later and was really off ith me. I never got to the bottom of that but I just got this weird weird feeling around him. YOu wll say this is a cop out or its down to the brain or whatever, but i think some people are sensitive to things like that and some aren't (or close it off). My mother is even more so than me. She literally has had 'shocks' from people sitting next to her. She said it wasnt an electric shock but it felt like her whole body jolted and then she started to feel sick, really sick, but as soon as the girl left she was ok again within seconds. It transpired that the girl had been tampering with ouija boards and stuff. Its weird because we're a very practical family and none of us talk to each other much about thi stuff yet we all expeience things, and not when we're watching horror films or anything , its always totally out of he blue .

The Norks
13-06-2005, 17:56:19
Originally posted by protein
You know there's a difference in wanting to believe something and it actually being real don't you?

I'd absolutely love to be able to levitate and heal people and send hexes but they just don't exist outside of folklaw. In real life, the one that it totally different from imagination and fiction, these things don't exist. No matter how much you want magic to be true, no matter how many people there are convincing themselves it's true, no matter how much you want to believe, it's just not there.

I'd love for there to be dragons and fairies and goblins and stuff too. Evidence points to them not existing I'm afraid. No matter how much I want dragons to exist, they just dont. It makes me sad but it's the real world and if you look at it in the right way you can be glad you are living what is real and not a fantasy.

i am living what is real, only I'm eveidently getting more depth out of it than you. I don't sit around despearately hoping things are true, or wantig to believe them. I observe things around me- sometimes other people independently back up what I've seen/experienced, other times not. The strange things that have happened have usually shocked me because they are so out of context. I will believe what I experience above anything you say cant or doesnt exist. Lots of things are true that can't be seen with the naked eye and there are many things yet to be discovered and documented.

protein
13-06-2005, 18:17:35
So your mum is to blame. I get it now.

I've met people who genuinely believed in adam and eve and creationism against all logic and it transpired that their parents taught them to believe that and that everything else was nonsense.

If your mum used to tell you that she picked up "psychic shocks" from people then you are going to believe in mumbo jumbo too.

protein
13-06-2005, 18:20:04
having a bad feeling about someone isn't magic. it's an internal thought. because you have thoughts about someone, which will often be right, it doesn't mean any sort of magic is at hand. it just means you had a thought.

it's so scary that you as a grown up, believe all this.

Cruddy
13-06-2005, 19:30:58
Originally posted by The Norks
where did everyone learn their reiki? how do you really know its working etc?

Well, I didn't ever call it reiki. It seems to be pretty much same thing.

I guess my parents always taught me to concentrate about problems. So, growing up, if/when I encountered an injury on someone else, I'd just try to make it better.

I did a little bit of theoretical meditation with some yogis in Amsterdam, but that wasn't teaching me about healing - just how to relax and concentrate.

You learn by doing. And I wouldn't say I'm good at it, but I give it a try.

Those websites might teach you some useful things about relaxing and focusing - but the rest is down to you.

protein
13-06-2005, 19:45:21
and what about transmitting beams of mystical healing energy? Where does the energy come from? Little invisible nozzles on the fingertips?

Oerdin
13-06-2005, 19:45:53
Originally posted by Funko
My little brother does it, he's really into it. I don't know much about it though.

Your little brother reeks? That's not a nice thing to say.

Cruddy
13-06-2005, 19:55:34
Originally posted by protein
and what about transmitting beams of mystical healing energy? Where does the energy come from? Little invisible nozzles on the fingertips?

Only place you won't find ANY energy at all is outside of the event horizon of the big bang.

We're surrounded by the stuff. We emit it. We receive it.

It's there whether you want it or not - but USING it for something useful, that's a different story.

Put it another way - didn't your mental state ever change the way a situation worked out?

Thinking positive is ultra important. The minor effects of Reiki are not nearly so important as that.

protein
13-06-2005, 20:04:22
In what way can you transmit "healing energy" by waving your hands and thinking happy thoughts? What "energy" is it? In what way does the "healing energy" help?

What physical process takes place? What process takes place at all apart from imagination?

Cruddy
13-06-2005, 20:07:02
Fucked if I know.

In what way does thinking negative thoughts help you?

In what way does morbidity and hopelessness help the sick?

Even if it is just imagination, you underestimate the power of the imagination.

protein
13-06-2005, 20:19:49
I don't underestimate the power of imagination at all. I underestimate the power of reiki as anything other than imagination.

Your imagination can't leave your body and heal other people as a magical beam of healing energy.

Cruddy
13-06-2005, 20:20:19
Why not? ;)

Lazarus and the Gimp
13-06-2005, 20:55:00
There was a BBC natural history documentary in the 1980's called "Ring of fire" about Indonesia. In it, the presenters visited a healer and were staggered to find he could give what felt like powerful electric shocks by waving his hands over their chakra points.

They asked what else he could do, so he asked for a piece of paper. They handed it do him, he scrunched it up in a ball and lobbed it on the floor.

Then he placed his hand over it and held it there for about 10 seconds, and the paper just caught fire. They replayed it in close-up and slow-motion. It was the most brain-buggering thing I'd ever seen.

Lazarus and the Gimp
13-06-2005, 20:57:07
Originally posted by protein
and what about transmitting beams of mystical healing energy? Where does the energy come from? Little invisible nozzles on the fingertips?

Hey! I've got those too! They're called "pores".

The Norks
13-06-2005, 20:59:14
Originally posted by protein
So your mum is to blame. I get it now.

I've met people who genuinely believed in adam and eve and creationism against all logic and it transpired that their parents taught them to believe that and that everything else was nonsense.

If your mum used to tell you that she picked up "psychic shocks" from people then you are going to believe in mumbo jumbo too.

don't be a twat protein, just because you clearly are not from the same sort of family with the same sort of experiences, doesnt give you the right to dismiss it or insult my mother's experiences. Reams of things have happened within our family, and we've all talked over the possible causes etc. My parents have not 'taught' me to believe anything, quite the opposite in fact, however it is fairly inevitable that we will share our life experiences. Neither do I accept what my parents tell me wholesale either. People in our family are all very down to earth, however there is a strong psychic/sensitive streak whether you like that or not.

I do have a brain, I can figure things out for myself. Somebody like you saying that things like this dont happen, doesnt make it true, anymore than me saying the planet is made of jellybeans is true

The Norks
13-06-2005, 21:11:56
Originally posted by protein
having a bad feeling about someone isn't magic. it's an internal thought. because you have thoughts about someone, which will often be right, it doesn't mean any sort of magic is at hand. it just means you had a thought.

it's so scary that you as a grown up, believe all this.

again- you are being a patronising twat. I didnt say I had a bad thought about him. I know the difference between a thought and what happened. I said I got on the bus and as I sat down I could physically feel someone staring at me with absolute crystal certainty. It had never happened before nor since in such a physical way, it was like he had his hand on my shoulder it was that strong. Only when I got off the bus did he approach me and ask me out. I'd say that was somewhat more than coincidence. and its very hard to describe how it felt. I havent had that exact phenomenon since, but I often get very strong feelings ie complex sets of emotions, not just 'good' or 'bad' from things like photographs, or when I just see people in a crowd. I have often seen a name on a list for instance and known that person would be important to me somehow. I also always know if I'm about to win something, its a really overwhelming feeling and it is not like anything I experience in any other circumstance.

As I say, if you don't experience things this way, and if you are sceptical fine- I'm sceptical too, even though I have directly seen things and heard things. but you do not have the knowledge or right to tell me i'm dumb because I believe something I have experienced, or believe trusted members of my family. In fact many of the things that have happened in my family at one stage were not talked about until years later and it was only then that everyone realised they had shared certain experiences. So its not like we all sit round winding each other up, and we are a very questioning family and not everyone who has these experiences welcomes them either, so we arent gullible 'believers'. We are just people who experience things.

I think you have a very naive and childish idea of what psychic ability or sensitivity is, and of what generally anything in the arena of alternative therapies or 'supernatural' phenomena are, and you would do well to find out before you go spouting idiotic opinions to people who know better because they live with it.

The Norks
13-06-2005, 21:18:09
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
There was a BBC natural history documentary in the 1980's called "Ring of fire" about Indonesia. In it, the presenters visited a healer and were staggered to find he could give what felt like powerful electric shocks by waving his hands over their chakra points.

They asked what else he could do, so he asked for a piece of paper. They handed it do him, he scrunched it up in a ball and lobbed it on the floor.

Then he placed his hand over it and held it there for about 10 seconds, and the paper just caught fire. They replayed it in close-up and slow-motion. It was the most brain-buggering thing I'd ever seen.

There are many more things on earth and more forces than we know about or can prove yet. What they are is debatable, and who can manipulate those things is also debatable, but they do happen. I firmly believe that the consciousness/soul/whatever you want to call it, can travel outside the body in some way, and I think you can affect people at distance in various ways. I think there are a lot of twats around who flood the media and book market (and dont start me on the internet) with gibberish and fraud, so I'm not surprised people dont believe. Usually people who can do such things or have had genuine experiences arent the ones running to the press.

Cruddy
13-06-2005, 21:19:45
That documentary was filmed on Bali.

Just to narow it down a bit - Indonesia has 1,000s of islands.

Lazarus and the Gimp
13-06-2005, 21:26:48
Originally posted by Cruddy
That documentary was filmed on Bali.

Just to narow it down a bit - Indonesia has 1,000s of islands.

I've got the book of the series. Did you watch it? What did you think?

Cruddy
14-06-2005, 02:20:31
I watched that series and thought it was a fake at the time. Although I couldn't honestly say how it was done.

Now I'm not so sure... Bali has a big rep for spiritual weirdness and I've met people since then who've seen (or even done) similar things.

Would you mind telling me what the series was called, so I can look out for it?

"Walking with Shamans" perhaps? :)

Nills Lagerbaak
14-06-2005, 10:15:41
Just a theory Norks, but you feeling him looking at you could be that you actually saw him looking at you (without your analytical mind processing it). As your mind processes it (like in dreams) it can manifest itself in many different ways (i.e a hand on your shoulder). Then it was just coincedence that he asked you out.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the mind works in odd ways that we don't fully understand, but at least it can be demonstrated. Find me ONE person who can actually demonstrate some undescovered force and I might change my mind. Otherwise seriously it's a waste of time living in a fantasy land

mr.G
14-06-2005, 10:16:32
Reiki Forum !!!!!!!!!!!!

Funko
14-06-2005, 10:17:21
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Find me ONE person who can actually demonstrate some undescovered force and I might change my mind. Otherwise seriously it's a waste of time living in a fantasy land

Are you Han Solo? :eek:

mr.G
14-06-2005, 10:19:29
:lol:

Nills Lagerbaak
14-06-2005, 10:26:45
Huh?

Funko
14-06-2005, 10:41:20
I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field controls my destiny.

Han solo.

Nills Lagerbaak
14-06-2005, 10:51:27
Bad grammer.

There's no mystical energy field contolING my destiny!

Funko
14-06-2005, 10:57:35
Kelsey Grammer?

What's the grammar like?

The Norks
14-06-2005, 13:12:35
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Just a theory Norks, but you feeling him looking at you could be that you actually saw him looking at you (without your analytical mind processing it). As your mind processes it (like in dreams) it can manifest itself in many different ways (i.e a hand on your shoulder). Then it was just coincedence that he asked you out.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the mind works in odd ways that we don't fully understand, but at least it can be demonstrated. Find me ONE person who can actually demonstrate some undescovered force and I might change my mind. Otherwise seriously it's a waste of time living in a fantasy land

I certainly don't rule out scientific explanations that are within the realm of current scientific knowledge, however, I think many of these explanations are far more ridiculous than anything I've said.

I on't think unless you experience these types of things you can understand them. Thats a cop out I know, but hey, I feel the same way when people try to convince me I have a latent maternal instinct that will one day rear its head- no I don't, I think its bollocks. Ultimately, everyone has to experience their own life, and make their own sense out of it. Maybe people in my family have better than average 'spidey senses' but that doesnt explain how I know when I'm about to win something, or how people in my family have foreseen future events, or how loads of us have seen or experienced 'ghosts' (I use that term very broadly). And sometimes together, not in isolation.

Believe it or not the most psychic/sensitive person in my family, my Grandad was an electronics engineer and who helped to design Concorde, some of the first computers and the Helen Keller machine, so he was no airy fairy hippy, he was extremely down to earth and very scientific. The same was true of my Grandmother on my Dad's side who had second sight (yes really), she was a very get-on-with-it type person. We weren't even allowed to ask her about that because it was taboo- you often find that with people who experience these things, they don't like talking about it and they just get on with it like other people do with epilepsy or dyslexia.

I am probably the only person in my family who embraces crystals and astrology and stuff, and thats because i like investigating these things, I'm not decided one way or another on it, I guess the point is when you observe things happening and they form very clear patterns, you start to think it probably wasn't a dodgy piece of chicken or a stray soundwave playing with your brain.

If you are looking for people who can reliably demonstrate skills, you might want to ask yourself why the police use certain psychics again and again. Because they produce results. They were heavily used when the IRA were most active. Thats not to say a lot of charlatans aren't out there, or that everyone psychic is good (a lot get it in flashes or a bit like a badly tuned in TV they get part but not all) or that current science won't one day explain it, but things like this do happen. Whatever happens within nature will have some law(s) explaining it, and there will be as with any science, lots of crap to wade through. For me the fascinating bit is looking into it.

Anyway I say tomato, you say shiny red sphere, you dont know everything about the universe and neither do I, so I dont think you can say whether its a fantasy land or not. Lots of things that were thought to be untrue have been proved to be true, and some of them took hundreds of years, and many things that once seemed beyond imagination have happened or been found/invented. I'm sure there are many hundreds of years of discovery if not thousands ahead of us.

mr.G
14-06-2005, 13:13:25
:rolleyes:
Darkstar with titties

The Norks
14-06-2005, 13:17:56
Originally posted by Cruddy
I watched that series and thought it was a fake at the time. Although I couldn't honestly say how it was done.

Now I'm not so sure... Bali has a big rep for spiritual weirdness and I've met people since then who've seen (or even done) similar things.

Would you mind telling me what the series was called, so I can look out for it?

"Walking with Shamans" perhaps? :)

There was a guy called Eric von Daniken who did a book about all these supposedly supernatural things that proved that aliens existed etc, and people bought it big time, then the bbc went and got someone to investigate and it was all total baloney, he'd taken pictures of things and blown them to look bigger, and failed to notice really simple explanations like climatic conditions etc.

My Mum and dad used to work with a guy who wrote a fiction book about aliens, and he wrote it as a real documentation, it was kind of a cult success, and in it, rather like Da Vici code, he names places etc (one of them being his parents graves) and people STILL quote from his book in serious alien documentaries and books. Its quite funny. I have a signed copy ;-)

Lazarus and the Gimp
14-06-2005, 17:16:47
Originally posted by Cruddy
I watched that series and thought it was a fake at the time. Although I couldn't honestly say how it was done.

Now I'm not so sure... Bali has a big rep for spiritual weirdness and I've met people since then who've seen (or even done) similar things.

Would you mind telling me what the series was called, so I can look out for it?

"Walking with Shamans" perhaps? :)

"Ring of Fire"- written and produced by Lawrence and Lorne Blair.

Cruddy
14-06-2005, 17:18:12
<slaps head> I should really have guessed from your first post!

Thanks Laz.

Lazarus and the Gimp
14-06-2005, 17:21:27
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Just a theory Norks, but you feeling him looking at you could be that you actually saw him looking at you (without your analytical mind processing it). As your mind processes it (like in dreams) it can manifest itself in many different ways (i.e a hand on your shoulder). Then it was just coincedence that he asked you out.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the mind works in odd ways that we don't fully understand, but at least it can be demonstrated. Find me ONE person who can actually demonstrate some undescovered force and I might change my mind. Otherwise seriously it's a waste of time living in a fantasy land

I recall hearing of a test being done where scientists stared at passers-by from behind a two-way mirror stationed by a notice-board. A large number of people being stared at showed signs of unease, and some (when later interviewed) said they had the feeling of being watched.

I can't find a link for it though. It would certainly be a good genetic trait to have.

Nills Lagerbaak
14-06-2005, 17:45:35
How many people develop that "sense" when asked questioned after the experiment.

A truer test would be to interview their spouse or something without them knowing, and see if they confided any suspicians in them,

Cruddy
14-06-2005, 17:48:06
That's a much more iffy experiment.

a) You're assuming both the spouses are honest.

b) You're assuming they have discussed the experiment.

In short;-

c) You're taking the experiment out of a controlled environment.

The terms "wooden eye" and "Marshall Zhukov" are kicking me in the memory, and I can't figure out why.

Lazarus and the Gimp
14-06-2005, 17:49:32
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
How many people develop that "sense" when asked questioned after the experiment.

A truer test would be to interview their spouse or something without them knowing, and see if they confided any suspicians in them,

I imagine that identifying the random stoppers, then tracking down their family, then hoping the random stoppers would have mentioned it, would have presented so many obstacles as to render such a control effectively meaningless.

Sir Penguin
15-06-2005, 03:37:22
Both my parents did Reiki training--my dad level 1, and my mom level 2. I've never had training, but I can do it. Essentially, some people (including me and my dad, but not my mom) can tell where the injured spot is because it's warmer than the surrounding skin. I have never been wrong when identifying injured spots using this technique. I assume it's because blood concentrates there. It's a good party trick.

SP

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 09:27:47
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
I imagine that identifying the random stoppers, then tracking down their family, then hoping the random stoppers would have mentioned it, would have presented so many obstacles as to render such a control effectively meaningless.


YEah, true, but as soon as you aks people "did you experience anything strage as you walked down that road" I bet you 100% of people who said they did, was as a reaction to the question.

How about this:

100 reiki masters behind a one way window using reik-ology to will passers-by into a generous mood. Then put some charity bins at the end of the road and see if collection rates go up.

Basically at no point in the experiment can the subjects be aware of the experiment./

protein
15-06-2005, 10:18:59
It had better be a crystal window. Other materials aren't vibrating at the natural love frequency and will bounce the energy beams back into the room making the reiki masters so healthy that they become superhuman.

mr.G
15-06-2005, 10:20:49
doooooooooo
di
doooooooooo

The Norks
15-06-2005, 11:06:38
nills I think you are attributing some bizarre qualities to reiki.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 11:18:12
I know, it's more a general point on psychics / hexes / telepathy kind of powers.

The Higgelhoff
15-06-2005, 11:23:14
Originally posted by The Norks
nills I think you are attributing some bizarre qualities to reiki.

You're just not open minded enough.

The Norks
15-06-2005, 11:31:42
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
I know, it's more a general point on psychics / hexes / telepathy kind of powers.

so why do you think the police repeatedly use psychics?

Funko
15-06-2005, 11:33:39
Not sure, last research I saw there was no proof they'd ever been useful in solving crimes.

Funko
15-06-2005, 11:45:31
The two most extensive surveys I know of were done by the LAPD in the late 70s when they were considering starting to use psychics They found that the psychics success rates were no different to those through chance/guesswork.

Google tells me it was published in:

Journal of Police Science and Administration (7, no. 1 [1979]: 18-25) but I can't find a fill link to the paper.

In another link I found that police using psychics expose themselves to demonic posession!? :eek:

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 11:46:12
Originally posted by The Norks
so why do you think the police repeatedly use psychics?

Because "real" psychics are probably a lot like Fortune Tellers. Extremely good at putting the picture together given a set of clues.
I.e. very perceptive, but not magic.

Nothing training won't give the average person, but as they come at it from a different angle to the police they are perhaps useful?

King_Ghidra
15-06-2005, 11:48:43
wait til the military get their psychics on you man, when they mind zap you dude, you won't even know it happened

Funko
15-06-2005, 11:50:22
This has more information on the experiment and conclusions:

http://www.totse.com/en/technology/science_technology/lapd.html

The research data does not support the contention that psychics can provide significant additional information leading to the solution of major crimes. The area of greatest accuracy had to do with the sex of the suspect and sex of the victim. Some degree of accuracy was also detected in the type of crime committed. A common thread ran through many of the psychics'responses. The most commonly repeated conception of
these crimes was that the victim was a female prostitute murdered by a male, with drug involvement either by the victim, the suspect, or both.

Many of the psychics believed these cases might have been connected with the "Hillside Strangler," a highly publicized case in the news at the time this study was conducted. However,
none of the crimes involved in the study was related to that case.

Overall, little, if any, information was elicited from the twelve psychic participants that would provide material helpful in the investigation of the major crimes in question. There was a low rate of inter-psychic congruence and accuracy among the responses elicited in this research. The report stated: "We are forced to conclude based on our results, that the usefulness of psychics as an aid in criminal investigation has not been validated."

Funko
15-06-2005, 11:53:30
Link to the kind of thing Nills was talking about (and a mention of the study)

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/police-psychics.html

The Higgelhoff
15-06-2005, 11:55:17
In other words...

Psychics - Bollock Merchants
Reiki - Bollocks

The Norks
15-06-2005, 11:55:38
Mike that article is about the least balanced ever- it makes absolutely no attempt to even explore the psychics' side of things or incidents of accuracy. We dont need to be told that some psychics are frauds and cold read people or speak in generalities. We know this! I'd like to see a properly balanced article where the writer started out with no bias.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 11:59:51
Important point:

If psychics really had the powers they claimed they had, why didn't they find the murderer before, independently.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 12:01:16
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
wait til the military get their psychics on you man, when they mind zap you dude, you won't even know it happened

Shit. Have I changed man? I donb't think so - I've always been me. But then I would say that wouldn't I shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!111!!!11

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 12:05:17
By the way can I just say, that despite this thread being extremely one-sided, this place would be dead dull if it weren't for conversations like these!

The Higgelhoff
15-06-2005, 12:11:06
It would be full of thread by Vincent and MrG.

zmama
15-06-2005, 12:31:59
and make me much happier

Funko
15-06-2005, 12:57:08
Originally posted by The Norks
Mike that article is about the least balanced ever- it makes absolutely no attempt to even explore the psychics' side of things or incidents of accuracy. We dont need to be told that some psychics are frauds and cold read people or speak in generalities. We know this! I'd like to see a properly balanced article where the writer started out with no bias.

The second article might not be coming from an unbiased perspective but the first one pretty much just describes the research that was done. The important point about the LAPD surveys is that they were seriously researching whethey they could use psychics because they really thought they could save money and improve detection rates.

Their conclusion seems to be that even if the psychics were getting valuable and/or genuine information it was coming out in too vaguely and not specific enough to be of any real value to them.

Which isn't too unfair is it?

mr.G
15-06-2005, 12:59:11
Originally posted by The Higgelhoff
It would be full of thread by Vincent and MrG. :D

mr.G
15-06-2005, 13:00:09
Reiki works for me, don't know how but it works.
I don't mind not knowing.... thats a relief

Provost Harrison
15-06-2005, 13:03:12
Go reiki, Go reiki, Go reiki!:p

So what the frig is it then? Sounds like more new age bullshit...

mr.G
15-06-2005, 13:05:57
hey there is simple mind
and how are you doing?

Funko
15-06-2005, 13:18:44
Norks - this a genuine question, not meant as trying to wind you up.

I know you genuinely believe in psychics and astrology, but also accept that there are some charlatans out there using cold readings etc.

So that in mind, how do you choose psychics/astrologers and how do you confirm to your own satisfaction that it is a genuine person and they aren't using those techniques - from what I've seen they can be extremely convincing.

Cruddy
15-06-2005, 14:16:55
Try googling anomalous cognition - Stanford Research Institute.

Over 35 years of research, much of it classified.

The Norks
15-06-2005, 14:22:48
Let me correct you- I don't 'genuinely believe' anything. i find it really interesting, and from experiences I've had or people I know have had I think there may be something in it (I think their experiences are certainly genuine but I'm also aware of possible explanations, exaggerations, changes over time etc). May. To that end, I like investigating it, and it keeps me off the streets ;-)

I think you have to keep an open mind but also remain critical when dealing with these people. You also have to understand the method they use and what the downfalls can be. You have to decide within your own mind what result you will be satisfied with. And frankly I would say the same thing applies to doctors, lawyers, trainers, in fact anyone you go to for a personal service. Human error comes into anything where interpretation of evidence is required. Is that not so?

Funko
15-06-2005, 14:40:11
I meant the danger of deliberate deception / conning rather than human error.

There is the potential for that with doctors/lawyers etc but they have very clear training, examination and accreditation paths and can be struck off/disbarred etc. if they don't follow them.

protein
15-06-2005, 14:47:05
Not all of it is deliberate. If you get a practitioner who believes and a "patient" who believes...

The Norks
15-06-2005, 14:57:15
Deliberate deception can occur in many walks of life Mike- lets not forget the world of cosmetics and advertising (both regulated and legal). You can also have a variation of quality even if you are trained and within guidelines. My current doctor may as well be a plank of wood.

For the record, some 'alternative' practises have regulatory bodies or voluntary membership/accreditation schemes. I am a member of theTABI (Tarot Association of the British isles) and our code of ethics is:

All readings remain confidential between the querent and the reader and, if appropriate, the readers mentor.
All readings will aim to empower the client.
All querents are equal and will be treated with respect.
As a reader I will be open minded, honest and remain non-judgmental.
I will suggest the querent contact a qualified professional if appropriate e.g. health or legal professional.
Any payment will be discussed prior to the reading, will be reasonable and within the clients means.
If at any time I feel unable to continue the reading I will withdraw tactfully
I will use Tarot responsibly e.g. I will not offer to remove or place curses
I will not knowingly read for minors without permission from a guardian/parent
I will not undertake reading for anyone other than the querent, i.e. third parties.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 15:04:27
"All readings will aim to empower the client."

Still nothing about the actual quality of the reading, which is the main problem with all this. As long as you stick to the few rules you can say whatever you like as long as it makes the client feel good.

Which I guess is the whole point - so fair play to anyone who makes money this way.

protein
15-06-2005, 15:15:53
We used to live in trees but as we became more and more obsessed with logic and technology, we lost touch with our intuitive natural roots.

By having a session with a qualified and certificated Protein Therapy® practitioner, you get back to your intuitive natural state, forget your day to day stresses and recharge your psychic battery.

We all know that wood has natural energy and some wood has more than others. A cedar tree grown in a graveyard for instance will be supercharged with natural energy and a shrub by a roadside will be weak in power.

Qualified Protein Therapy® practitioners will let you hold their wood until you feel a wash of warm energy come over you like a wave of love. Because only Protein Therapy® have the right type of wood for you.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 15:18:16
But "Nil's Yard Remedies" can supply you with edible wood.
Suck (or even blow) on one of Nil's wood for about an hour and you'll be filled with a warm, gooey feeling.

Debaser
15-06-2005, 15:18:41
Where do I sign up?

Funko
15-06-2005, 15:19:37
Originally posted by The Norks
Deliberate deception can occur in many walks of life Mike- lets not forget the world of cosmetics and advertising (both regulated and legal). You can also have a variation of quality even if you are trained and within guidelines. My current doctor may as well be a plank of wood.

For the record, some 'alternative' practises have regulatory bodies or voluntary membership/accreditation schemes. I am a member of theTABI (Tarot Association of the British isles) and our code of ethics is:

I wasn't meaning to imply a slight, I was genuinely interested.

Nills Lagerbaak
15-06-2005, 15:19:47
I'll PM you a contract. Alternatively you can contact "Protein's Pimping Parlour."

protein
15-06-2005, 15:36:43
For only £79 more per session you get a free elixir of life drink. Fresh from the wood spring and still warm from all the wood energy.

Funko
15-06-2005, 15:54:12
"warm from the wood"

I don't want that.

The Norks
15-06-2005, 15:55:30
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
"All readings will aim to empower the client."

Still nothing about the actual quality of the reading, which is the main problem with all this. As long as you stick to the few rules you can say whatever you like as long as it makes the client feel good.

Which I guess is the whole point - so fair play to anyone who makes money this way.


thats untrue- the wider aim of the organisation is to teach reading tarot to a high standard. They run training, mentoring and accreditation schemes. Accredited readers are continuously monitored and have to give free readings.

The Norks
15-06-2005, 15:56:52
Originally posted by Funko
I wasn't meaning to imply a slight, I was genuinely interested.

I know :)

The Norks
15-06-2005, 15:57:42
Protein can I touch your wood? how big is it? Is it hard wood or soft wood?

*snigger*

mr.G
15-06-2005, 16:18:24
reiki gezeiki.

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-06-2005, 17:37:58
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Go reiki, Go reiki, Go reiki!:p

So what the frig is it then? Sounds like more new age bullshit...

I personally think it's a method of amplifying the placebo effect, and is actually caused by the recipient rather than the healer- though it crucially hinges on extremely skilled and focussed persuasion and facilitation techniques by the healer.

There you go- a nice, rational explanation. That doesn't explain all those healing techniques, however. How that Balinese healer made a piece of paper catch fire, for example. That was just a head-fuck.

I'm convinced that there is a "rational" explanation for these things that we just haven't arrived at yet- and possibly never will. That doesn't detract from their effects in any way. "Explanation" need not equate to "explaining away", after all.

protein
15-06-2005, 17:55:32
I agree. Which begs the question - what's the point of paying someone to wave their hands over you?

As for the Bali guy, there are magicians the world over.

There are still millions of people around the world that Uri Gellar is a psychic rather than a magician.

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-06-2005, 18:21:14
Well this is just the point. The Balinese bloke isn't a magician. He refused to do stuff like that for an audience because he doesn't want to be a performing monkey- although he eventually agreed to be filmed, he refused to give permission for them to identify him. Instead he's a deeply respected healer for local people.

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-06-2005, 18:22:51
Originally posted by protein
I agree. Which begs the question - what's the point of paying someone to wave their hands over you?


Because other people have differing opinions. And I'd try Reiki, because I think it works.

protein
15-06-2005, 18:24:36
but since you know it's power of the mind, why not go to an expert like a hypnotherapist or psychologist?

protein
15-06-2005, 18:25:10
and since you know it's the power of your own mind wouldn't you be embarrassed for the hippy waving their "magic" hands at you?

fp
15-06-2005, 18:25:25
As fascinating as the Balinese guy sounds, I just wouldn't believe anything that astounding if I saw it on TV. If I saw it in real life that'd be another matter.

The Norks
15-06-2005, 19:12:47
Originally posted by protein
but since you know it's power of the mind, why not go to an expert like a hypnotherapist or psychologist?

who says its the power of the mind? I don't think Reiki has anything to do with that if we're talking about healing.

As much as you've criticised me for not listening to those who say it doesnt work, have you actually bothered to talk to the people here who say they can do it?

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-06-2005, 21:27:35
Originally posted by protein
but since you know it's power of the mind, why not go to an expert like a hypnotherapist

:hmm:

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-06-2005, 21:29:32
Originally posted by protein
and since you know it's the power of your own mind wouldn't you be embarrassed for the hippy waving their "magic" hands at you?

Not in the slightest. The end justifies the means- I am nothing if not pragmatic. If I can cope with a prostate check, the hands of reiki will have an embarrassment factor of zero.

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-06-2005, 21:30:49
I'm really curious now, protein. Why do you feel hypnotherapy is somehow more respectable and "real" than reiki? How do you think it works?

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-06-2005, 21:33:44
Originally posted by fp
As fascinating as the Balinese guy sounds, I just wouldn't believe anything that astounding if I saw it on TV. If I saw it in real life that'd be another matter.

Well that's the weird thing. Had it been a headline piece on an ITV show called "Fuck me ragged! Look at this!" I wouldn't have believed it either.

However, seeing as it was a totally incongruous three-minute snippet in an otherwise totally sober and rather sedate 6-part anthropological exploration of Indonesia, the impact was rather more impressive.

fp
16-06-2005, 07:49:30
I understand what you're saying. Nevertheless the cynic in me can't help thinking that however unlikely it is that it was a hoax perpetrated by the programme makers, that explanation is still more believable to me than somebody actually being able to do what that guy did.

Maybe I'm too cynical. I also didn't actually see the programme - maybe if I had I would feel differently.

fp
16-06-2005, 07:50:11
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
an ITV show called "Fuck me ragged! Look at this!"

I think they've got this one lined up for their summer schedule, by the way. :D

Nills Lagerbaak
16-06-2005, 09:15:33
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
I'm really curious now, protein. Why do you feel hypnotherapy is somehow more respectable and "real" than reiki? How do you think it works?

Because it is an exact (er) science, that has stacks and stacks of journals to support the workings of the mind (regression treatments and mental association plus loads loads more) , and qualified hypnotherapists have to be familiar with a large part of this.

As far as I can see other disciplines skirt around these fundamentals and sometimes achieve the same result, but it's more chance than skill.

It's just a case of getting the desired result a lot more accurately and quickly.
Then, of course you have the people who think alternative therapies are something more mysterious...

Funko
16-06-2005, 09:17:06
Originally posted by fp
I think they've got this one lined up for their summer schedule, by the way. :D

It's "Celebrity Fuck Me Ragged! Look at this!"

The Norks
16-06-2005, 10:01:13
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Because it is an exact (er) science, that has stacks and stacks of journals to support the workings of the mind (regression treatments and mental association plus loads loads more) , and qualified hypnotherapists have to be familiar with a large part of this.

As far as I can see other disciplines skirt around these fundamentals and sometimes achieve the same result, but it's more chance than skill.

It's just a case of getting the desired result a lot more accurately and quickly.
Then, of course you have the people who think alternative therapies are something more mysterious...

I think you're kidding yourself-seriously. Anyone can be a hypnotist- my brother does it as a party trick. Its extremely hit and miss, and very discredited by some people, especially regressive hypnosis. Not everyone can be hypnotised either. Its not a science or anything like it. It does have its uses but I find it hard to believe you discredit reiki on one hand and cite hypnosis on the other. Crazy fool! :D

The Norks
16-06-2005, 10:06:32
Originally posted by Funko
It's "Celebrity Fuck Me Ragged! Look at this!"

shortly to be followed by

celebrity fuck me ragged in the jungle! Look at this !

Nills Lagerbaak
16-06-2005, 11:06:20
Originally posted by The Norks
I think you're kidding yourself-seriously. Anyone can be a hypnotist- my brother does it as a party trick. Its extremely hit and miss, and very discredited by some people, especially regressive hypnosis. Not everyone can be hypnotised either. Its not a science or anything like it. It does have its uses but I find it hard to believe you discredit reiki on one hand and cite hypnosis on the other. Crazy fool! :D


To be honest I'm not a massive hypno-phile.

It's more the cognitive science I am interested in, Hypnosis is just a tool to enable easier access to the cognitive porcesses.

Yes anyone can be a hypnotist. Not everyone knows how to use it properly.

Which is why it takes over 7 years to become a proper cognitive therapist.

protein
16-06-2005, 11:43:45
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Well that's the weird thing. Had it been a headline piece on an ITV show called "Fuck me ragged! Look at this!" I wouldn't have believed it either.

However, seeing as it was a totally incongruous three-minute snippet in an otherwise totally sober and rather sedate 6-part anthropological exploration of Indonesia, the impact was rather more impressive.
Ever seen those guys who do psychic surgery? They seemingly stick their fingers in people, make a bloody mess and then pull out the sickness leaving no mark whatsoever. I've seen that on plenty of sober programmes.

I've also seen it on penn & teller.

mr.G
16-06-2005, 11:46:16
comparing an apple with an egg are we?

protein
16-06-2005, 12:08:48
Not at all. You get bullshit around the world. I'm comparing bullshit with bullshit.

Just because something is on television it doesn't mean it's true. Are you more likely to believe that a balinese man can set fire to newspaper using a cheap magic trick or ancient secret magical powers? The second option is way more exciting and interesting but far, far less plausable. Are you more likely to believe a psychic surgeon actually sticks his hand through your skin and pulls out the sickness or has a blood capsule and some rotton chicken fat concealed in his hand? Again, there's an exciting and mystical way to look at it or a really disappointing way to look at it which is, I'm afraid, reality.

I met some people who thought David Blaine could actually levetate because they saw it on tv. When I repeated the trick and levetated myself they thought I had actually done it too. When I explained the trick they were still saying that David Blaine was a genuine psychic and I was just tricking them.

The mind boggles!

protein
16-06-2005, 12:10:45
"Psychic surgery is a modern expression of traditional Filipino shamanism. Practiced also in North America by visiting Filipino shamans, psychic surgery involves the extraction of "tumors" from the body through a bloody but painless and invisible 'incision' in the patient's abdomen. Chicken blood and parts have been found hidden on the shamans who perform these procedures." (Cassileth)

"The 'psychic surgeons' of the Philippines and Brazil are marketed as traditional healers who possess special, mystical powers." (Hafner)

"Psychic surgery is a procedure in which sleight-of-hand is used to create an illusion that patients can be cured with surgery that leaves no skin wound." (Hafner)

The psychic operation is "the removal of tissue from the body using bare hands, without the use of anaesthetics or antisepsis, leaving little or no indication on the skin that an operation had been performed." (Dein)

"The psychic surgeon would put one hand on the patient's shoulder and the other hand making a movement resembling the pushing of a plunger on a syringe. The 'aim' of the injections was to boost spiritual energy in the body, a depletion of which could make a person more susceptible to illness." (Dein)

mr.G
16-06-2005, 12:15:29
as in reiki compared to 'psychic surgeons' I meant.

The Norks
16-06-2005, 12:44:01
I used to know a guy who lived with a witchdoctor in africa for a while, and he saw loads of hexes and voodoo stuff happening.

also- there is undoubtedly loads of tricksters out there but people can also do amzing things, like those guys that get buried alive for ten days then come out alive.

MoSe
16-06-2005, 12:48:08
like Venom in his house?

The Norks
16-06-2005, 12:49:52
kind of like that, but thinner and prettier :D

Funko
16-06-2005, 12:50:52
That's not exactly hard.

mr.G
16-06-2005, 12:55:43
hardly not

fp
16-06-2005, 12:56:46
exactly

protein
16-06-2005, 13:24:05
Originally posted by mr.G
as in reiki compared to 'psychic surgeons' I meant.
The difference is that you believe in one of them. Other than that they are practically the same. Placaebo effect magic healing based on mystical magic powers rather than reality or logic.

Could you explain in what way they are different? I would wager that the success rate is exactly the same. If not more successful for the magic surgery because of the startling mental effect of seeing blood and gore removed.

The Norks
16-06-2005, 13:26:24
protein why can't you accept that other people have different viewpoints to you? Seriously- I really want to know.

MoSe
16-06-2005, 14:43:29
plz, not again...
accepting that other ppl have different PoVs doesn't mean appreciating those PoVs or accepting them for real just bc they're "someone else's" PoVs...

There are ppl actually believing in the Great Pumpkin, I've got no problem in accepting that they have that PoV, and I'm sure protein does too...

My PoV is that if you have the opinion that some opinion is bullshit, you have the right to say so, in all respect :)

The Norks
16-06-2005, 14:59:49
no the way protein says stuff is like he knows the truth, and no one else does except people who agree with him.

MoSe
16-06-2005, 15:01:53
well, lucky me that I do! :p

fp
16-06-2005, 15:20:23
I sat in the pumpkin patch all night and the Great Pumpkin never came. :(

MoSe
16-06-2005, 17:18:06
your faith wasn't strong enough

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-06-2005, 17:50:52
Originally posted by protein


Just because something is on television it doesn't mean it's true.

We have a winner in the latest round of "Let's state the obvious!".

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-06-2005, 17:53:01
Originally posted by protein
"Psychic surgery is a modern expression of traditional Filipino shamanism. Practiced also in North America by visiting Filipino shamans, psychic surgery involves the extraction of "tumors" from the body through a bloody but painless and invisible 'incision' in the patient's abdomen. Chicken blood and parts have been found hidden on the shamans who perform these procedures." (Cassileth)

"The 'psychic surgeons' of the Philippines and Brazil are marketed as traditional healers who possess special, mystical powers." (Hafner)

"Psychic surgery is a procedure in which sleight-of-hand is used to create an illusion that patients can be cured with surgery that leaves no skin wound." (Hafner)

The psychic operation is "the removal of tissue from the body using bare hands, without the use of anaesthetics or antisepsis, leaving little or no indication on the skin that an operation had been performed." (Dein)

"The psychic surgeon would put one hand on the patient's shoulder and the other hand making a movement resembling the pushing of a plunger on a syringe. The 'aim' of the injections was to boost spiritual energy in the body, a depletion of which could make a person more susceptible to illness." (Dein)

Excellent. So you're telling me this Balinese healer had fire concealed up his sleeve?

protein
16-06-2005, 18:02:23
which do you think is more likely?

uri gellar is a magician who does the very simple spoon bending magic trick for a living

or

uri gellar is a man with tremendous psychic powers who can bend spoons with his mind

protein
16-06-2005, 18:03:58
a film crew come across a genuine magic man who can set fire to objects with his mind.

or

a tv company come across a magician who has been conning his village for years.

protein
16-06-2005, 18:04:23
use logic. think hard. then give your answer.

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-06-2005, 18:20:31
Let me rephrase your question for accuracy.

"a film crew presumed that they had come across a genuine magic man who can set fire to objects with his mind, and produced footage that, under slow-motion and close-up footage appears to support that supposition.

or

a tv company presumed that they had come across a magician who has been conning his village for years, yet despite setting up a test under close scrutiny were left with documentary footage that appeared to contradict their supposition.

Use logic. Think hard. Suddenly it's not so clear-cut, is it?

You see, in my example I'm actually taking into consideration what I saw, rather than explaining it away blindly.

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-06-2005, 18:39:13
Now, seeing as we're on a logic trip let's carry on with it.

Is it logical to assume we know the answers to everything under current scientific knowlege, and should therefore dismiss anything that does not comfortably fit under current scientific knowledge (or the more popular theories)?

Had we been posting this in the 1950's, I might have enjoyed reading your dismissal of the Big Bang theory.

Cruddy
16-06-2005, 18:40:29
"There's always a rational explanation for everything".

What a load of shit. Just because you come up with a rational explanation doesn't mean it's true.

I mean, the acient Greeks came up with a rational explanation - they blamed the gods.

Nowadays they blame the Turks instead.

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-06-2005, 18:46:33
Are you quoting anyone in particular, or just arguing with yourself?

Cruddy
16-06-2005, 18:48:29
Just ripping the piss out of a cliche that says fuck all.

protein
16-06-2005, 19:13:29
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Let me rephrase your question for accuracy.

"a film crew presumed that they had come across a genuine magic man who can set fire to objects with his mind, and produced footage that, under slow-motion and close-up footage appears to support that supposition.

or

a tv company presumed that they had come across a magician who has been conning his village for years, yet despite setting up a test under close scrutiny were left with documentary footage that appeared to contradict their supposition.

Use logic. Think hard. Suddenly it's not so clear-cut, is it?

You see, in my example I'm actually taking into consideration what I saw, rather than explaining it away blindly.
I saw it too by the way.

protein
16-06-2005, 19:21:14
It reminds me of the bullshit around martial arts. Having studied a martial art based on chi/reiki for six years I've never seen any evidence for it being anything other than creative visualisation.

You see lots of supposedly superhuman feats aided by the channeling of the mystical chi energy which in fact anyone can do. Watch a Shaolin Monk show for example. It's impressive but no more impressive than someone laying on a bed of nails or someone eating a lightbulb.

You always hear bullshit stories about chi kung/reiki masters who can knock people over by sending a mystical ball of ki at them. These people are always exposed because it only seems to work on their students and people willing to believe. Because it would seemingly be disrespecting the kung fu or karate tradition, people don't question it and will just believe.

Remember the Derren Brown episode when he knocked a kung fu guy over with his mind?

Cruddy
16-06-2005, 19:28:56
You still haven't done that Google search have you?

"You can lead a child to knowledge, but you cannot make them think."

Not that I think you're a child - but if you're not bleeding curious enough to find out for yourself, what's the bloody point of replying to your posts?

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-06-2005, 20:35:24
Originally posted by protein
I saw it too by the way.

Good, wasn't it? I'd love to go to Indonesia- particularly the Celebes going by what they showed. It looked stunning.

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-06-2005, 20:41:55
Originally posted by protein
It reminds me of the bullshit around martial arts. Having studied a martial art based on chi/reiki for six years I've never seen any evidence for it being anything other than creative visualisation.

You see lots of supposedly superhuman feats aided by the channeling of the mystical chi energy which in fact anyone can do. Watch a Shaolin Monk show for example. It's impressive but no more impressive than someone laying on a bed of nails or someone eating a lightbulb.

You always hear bullshit stories about chi kung/reiki masters who can knock people over by sending a mystical ball of ki at them. These people are always exposed because it only seems to work on their students and people willing to believe. Because it would seemingly be disrespecting the kung fu or karate tradition, people don't question it and will just believe.

Remember the Derren Brown episode when he knocked a kung fu guy over with his mind?

I've never seen Derren Brown. I'll keep an open mind on it until I hear some version that convinces me one way or another.

fp
16-06-2005, 20:50:57
Is Derren Brown that guy who tried to shoot himself on TV but failed?