PDA

View Full Version : Oil Crisis


Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 10:58:15
As we may be close to the peak of oil production, we're in for the mother of all oil crises (now or in a few decades).

eg
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1464050,00.html

http://www-x.nzz.ch/folio/archiv/2004/09/articles/interview.html

Just wondering - what would say 200 $ oil mean for you? Or using only half the amount of oil you use now, from petrol over air travel to plastics to cheap imported goods etc.?

Funko
21-04-2005, 11:06:42
We're all fucked.

protein
21-04-2005, 11:38:40
It's almost as if there would be a greedy power struggle for who controls the world's oil production.

MoSe
21-04-2005, 11:39:30
in a few decades, I count on being dead

Gary
21-04-2005, 11:47:49
We can alway grow crops to create oils and suchlike. Needs an incentive. And electric cars might become move fashionable. Air flights though, mmm maybe those will have to be cut down dramatically.

protein
21-04-2005, 11:49:28
Some sort of rubber band powered plane is in order.

Provost Harrison
21-04-2005, 11:50:00
Air traffic is going to have to be cut and a switch to a rail based form of transit which uses a fraction of the oil per capita...and the use of biofuels too is going to be a necessity...

protein
21-04-2005, 11:52:51
Actually, a hydrogen powered plane would be coool.

Funko
21-04-2005, 11:56:38
Sounds easy but most oil crops produce only about a barrel of oil per acre and the amount of land already turned over to agriculture is already causing massive environmental damage in terms of topsoil removal, salination of soil, not to mention the massive water requirements.

And for current requirements we'd need to find 30 billion acres to plant oil crops...

mr.G
21-04-2005, 11:58:21
Originally posted by protein
Actually, a hydrogen powered plane would be coool. or very very big foilded paper planes, wow

mr.G
21-04-2005, 11:59:38
i don't even like oil, it taste bad.
olive oil i do like.

protein
21-04-2005, 12:00:24
Originally posted by Funko
And for current requirements we'd need to find 30 billion acres to plant oil crops...
To the moon gentlemen!

mr.G
21-04-2005, 12:01:37
yaaaay let's all moon, get us all a nice tan on the butt.
and now back to the oil crisis.

Gary
21-04-2005, 12:02:23
Originally posted by Funko
And for current requirements we'd need to find 30 billion acres to plant oil crops... Mmm that's a lot of chips to get through first then. Good job the fashion is for fat people to be healthy.

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:03:07
Just been trying to work that out...

We'd need to plant 80% of the worlds land surface with oil crops.

*edited to remove my moronic error and save anyone else quoting it thinking it's possible...*

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 12:03:10
"30 billion acres"

How much is that in km^2?

King_Ghidra
21-04-2005, 12:03:58
Originally posted by MoSe
in a few decades, I count on being dead

no danger of you having children, i guess you're ok then

mr.G
21-04-2005, 12:04:27
Originally posted by Funko
Just been trying to work that out...

We'd need to plant 1% of the worlds land surface with oil crops, this could be reduced if we genetically engineered better oil bearing varieties?

That's not actually that bad... it seems that we already farm about 30% of the Earth's land surface. that's peanuts

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:04:38
121 million km^2

Earth's land surface is about 1.5*10^8 km^2

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:05:06
I think... that's what google calculator told me anyway. :)

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 12:05:36
121 million of 150 million km2 is ~80 %.

mr.G
21-04-2005, 12:06:42
you need a lot af gaz to harverst that crop.

zmama
21-04-2005, 12:06:54
you missed the sci. notation there Dyl

(no I am the moron! carry on boys)

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:10:31
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
121 million of 150 million km2 is ~80 %.

:lol:

I am a moron.

Provost Harrison
21-04-2005, 12:13:27
Originally posted by Funko
Just been trying to work that out...

We'd need to plant 1% of the worlds land surface with oil crops, this could be reduced if we genetically engineered better oil bearing varieties?

That's not actually that bad... it seems that we already farm about 30% of the Earth's land surface.

If needs must...the alternatives aren't looking any better. Besides with genetic engineering we could increase yield from crops, both for food and fuel, to reduce the amount of land needed...and then we have to strive for increases in efficiency too.

And as for hydrogen power, you do realise that you need a lot of energy to split the water in the first place? That comes from power stations...the only way this becomes environmentally feasible if this is generated from nuclear energy...

DaShi
21-04-2005, 12:15:24
Originally posted by protein
Some sort of rubber band powered plane is in order.


Or a rubber plane that bounces to each destination.

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:24:30
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
If needs must...the alternatives aren't looking any better. Besides with genetic engineering we could increase yield from crops, both for food and fuel, to reduce the amount of land needed...and then we have to strive for increases in efficiency too.

And as for hydrogen power, you do realise that you need a lot of energy to split the water in the first place? That comes from power stations...the only way this becomes environmentally feasible if this is generated from nuclear energy...

See Dyl's point. It's actually 80% of the earth's land surface...

Provost Harrison
21-04-2005, 12:26:55
Ouch, well I revise my optimism to a 'we're fucked' then in that case :D

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 12:31:06
Time to buy into nuclear energy, I'm afraid.

Provost Harrison
21-04-2005, 12:33:17
It certainly looks like that Dyl...despite how scary it is we don't seem to have much of a choice. Let's just hope someone comes along with fusion at some point very, very soon...

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:33:26
Someone invent cold fusion...

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:33:49
Nice x-post.

Provost Harrison
21-04-2005, 12:35:27
But I was first :p

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 12:36:40
What's the state of fusion anyway? I think if we replace current oil consumption by uranium, it will run out soon, too.

Greg W
21-04-2005, 12:42:52
Funny thing is that plastics are made primarily from oil. So we're really fucked in more ways than one.

Funko
21-04-2005, 12:43:45
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
What's the state of fusion anyway? I think if we replace current oil consumption by uranium, it will run out soon, too.

Currently it takes a huge (HUGE!) amount of energy to start a fusion reaction and they don't last very long so the energy you get out isn't as much as what you put in.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 12:54:51
Originally posted by Greg W
Funny thing is that plastics are made primarily from oil. So we're really fucked in more ways than one.

"from petrol over air travel to plastics...."

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 12:55:46
I wonder what surface we would have to cover with solar panels. Couple years ago, that figure stood at 10 million km^2, IIRC.

King_Ghidra
21-04-2005, 12:55:49
can't we hook up a pipe to the sun or something

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 12:56:27
Yaay - we have the big fusion reactor in the sky, just plug it in!

Greg W
21-04-2005, 12:57:45
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
"from petrol over air travel to plastics...." What, you want me to actually read the links and the entire thread? :clueless:

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 13:00:34
I'm such a bastard. :D

zmama
21-04-2005, 13:01:13
A given...you speak german

Greg W
21-04-2005, 13:06:21
AND he's a lawyer.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 13:13:59
Originally posted by zmama
A given...you speak german

Tu ich nicht!

zmama
21-04-2005, 13:17:12
Ok, a german-like language

HARRHARRHARR

Funko
21-04-2005, 13:21:34
Giant floating solar panels in the sky connected down a space elevator - FACT!

mr.G
21-04-2005, 13:28:26
wind mills, we want wind mills, we want wind mills. -FACT.


and a finger in a dyke.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
21-04-2005, 13:34:28
Finger in a Hochwasserschutzbauwerk you mean, I hope.

Cruddy
21-04-2005, 13:37:23
I reckon... when oil gets really scarce, major powers will start cracking coal for the black gold, rather like South Africa and Nazi Germany.

King_Ghidra
21-04-2005, 13:49:06
Originally posted by Cruddy
start cracking coal for the black gold

that sounds like a wonderful euphemism for something

The Norks
21-04-2005, 17:48:07
here's a revolutionary idea- why don't we start using renewable energy where we can, and then we won't have to worry about oil running out so fast?

Most people moan about the bleakness of the future, but they have no interest in actually resolving the general environmental/energy crisis we're approaching by using sustainable/renewable products. They want someone else to make it all go away.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
21-04-2005, 18:31:32
Because it's much more expensive than oilk in the short term, and people are nothing if not short sighted.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
21-04-2005, 18:31:58
What the hell is oilk? :confused: :lol:

The Norks
21-04-2005, 20:08:43
is it like elk?

Greg W
22-04-2005, 00:25:17
It's oil made from Elks.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
22-04-2005, 00:29:00
IKEA oil?

Oerdin
22-04-2005, 02:05:30
Originally posted by Funko
Sounds easy but most oil crops produce only about a barrel of oil per acre and the amount of land already turned over to agriculture is already causing massive environmental damage in terms of topsoil removal, salination of soil, not to mention the massive water requirements.

And for current requirements we'd need to find 30 billion acres to plant oil crops...

There is a process to create bio oil using the stocks of wheat or corn which normally are either mulched or just left in the field. Supposedly this process can also be used to treat sewage or to dispose of things like turkey guts. Supposedly the only biproducts are heating grade bio oil, natural gas, crabon black, and water. The gas is usually used to generate power to drive the process so it isn't very power intensive and it disposes of wastes plus generates several useful products.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
22-04-2005, 03:07:25
http://www.whizkid.com/stuff/thermo.html

It's a mouthful -- thermodepolymerization -- but it's one of the coolest and potentially most important technologies to hit in a while. And hardly anyone's writing about it.

Thermodepolymerization -- or "thermal depolymerization" -- is a process that converts stuff into oil. And by "stuff" I mean just about anything: garbage, medical waste, animals and animal parts (e.g., cows with mad-cow disease, or offal from chickens that have been made into McNuggets), used computer parts, tires, and so on, seemingly ad infinitum.

This is not just a theoretical process. It is real, out-of-the-lab stuff happening on an industrial scale. It's being done by ConAgra Foods in Carthage, Missouri -- at one of the company's Butterball Turkey plants, where up to 200 tons of turkeys are being turned into oil every day.

Once more: This is real stuff. Garbage is being turned into oil by a process that's safe, clean, and in use today.

Essentially, thermal depolymerization or TDP mimics a process the earth itself uses to 'process' what gets buried and break it down. Over millions of years, heat and pressure break the bonds that hold these waste products together. TDP accelerates the process. The leading company doing TDP is Changing World Technologies of West Hempstead, N.Y.

Cruddy
22-04-2005, 05:39:00
Originally posted by Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
What the hell is oilk? :confused: :lol:

It's "a whelk" pronounced with a Brooklyn accent.

notyoueither
22-04-2005, 06:27:17
Burn eskimos. And seals.

Darkstar
22-04-2005, 07:31:03
Don't need a space elevator to beam the power collected down.

C@H
22-04-2005, 08:23:30
Originally posted by Funko
See Dyl's point. It's actually 80% of the earth's land surface...

IIRC there is a slight difference between water and hydrogen ;)

It hurts, but I've to agree with PH: all this fancy affectation about hydrogen is a dead-end street. hydrogen itself isn't an energy source, only a transfer medium like a rechargeable battery.

not until we can produce hydrogen using a renewable energy (like solar power, another advantage of the Arab area) it is a really clean way of using energy in an almost closed cycle.

or.. did I miss this great 100-0 ? :nervous:

Dyl Ulenspiegel
22-04-2005, 08:41:20
ph: No you just missed what the 80 % was about, you nonthreadreading bastard.

C@H
22-04-2005, 08:43:55
reading isn't part of my job description :D

Dyl Ulenspiegel
22-04-2005, 08:46:20
About anything isn't part of your job description :D

C@H
22-04-2005, 08:56:30
In this case I would be Austrian customs - or German toll police officer

MoSe
22-04-2005, 12:24:15
Toll!

Dyl Ulenspiegel
22-04-2005, 12:40:26
Voll(tanken)!

King_Ghidra
22-04-2005, 13:51:32
Originally posted by Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm

Thermodepolymerization -- or "thermal depolymerization"

aha, it all becomes clear! like football -- or "foot ball"

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
22-04-2005, 14:50:53
Hey, I just cuts it and pastes it, I don't make it up.

THough I like the bit about turning mad cow disease into oil. Do you think it'd make regular unleaded or premium?

zmama
22-04-2005, 15:33:06
Crazygas!!

Greg W
22-04-2005, 15:34:26
Crazytalk!