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Spartak
19-04-2005, 17:19:08
Title says it all really. No other news.

King_Ghidra
19-04-2005, 17:19:46
well it doesn't quite say it all, like who it is, for instance

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
19-04-2005, 17:20:46
Cardinal sometingorother.

Gramercy Riffs
19-04-2005, 17:21:36
Why, what happened to the old one?

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 17:22:33
What a wasted opportunity for a reality tv show :cry:

Funko
19-04-2005, 17:23:21
Is he smoking dope?

And is this what you meant in the other thread? Why would it make MoSe busy?

Immortal Wombat
19-04-2005, 17:23:37
ex-Cardinal sometingorother, surely?

protein
19-04-2005, 17:27:05
There's a big gay rainbow outside my house and there was a clap of thunder earlier. Either the gods are happy or they think the new pope is a pooftah.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
19-04-2005, 17:37:45
Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
ex-Cardinal sometingorother, surely?

Not until the inauguration. Or whatever it is they use to signify papal transition.

MoSe
19-04-2005, 17:42:23
I thought the "Habemus Papam" announce from the balcony would have been enough for officialty....

protein
19-04-2005, 17:43:18
Doesn't jesus come down and make a speech, shake a few hands, bless the pope etc? It's a bit selfish if he doesn't. It's the pope's big day.

Spartak
19-04-2005, 17:43:35
Its Ratzinger.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
19-04-2005, 17:44:56
Well, that wasn't unexpected.

MoSe
19-04-2005, 17:45:27
he'll take name of Benedetto XVI

Vincent
19-04-2005, 17:49:52
I was hoping for Adolf I

MoSe
19-04-2005, 17:51:02
I'm glad they didn't elect Berlusconi.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 17:52:11
Benedict XVI- i want pics!

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 17:54:36
frigging bbc video not working

"Bells also sounded, signalling that a new pope has been elected."

Alison!!!

Vincent
19-04-2005, 17:57:06
I think he'll cancel his Hitlerjugend membership now.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 17:58:39
ooh he's a german- thats controversial, and not much younger than the recently deceased.

Spartak
19-04-2005, 18:00:26
Who was the last head of the inquision elected Pope?

Vincent
19-04-2005, 18:00:56
No, I think he's bavarian

Vincent
19-04-2005, 18:01:56
Yeah, german head of inuisition pope. HARR HARR

protein
19-04-2005, 18:05:27
A 78 year old? Are they taking the piss? He's bound to keep the whole abortion and contraception thing going and he's going to be dead in a year or so.

I demand a black, disabled, lesbian pope who actually smokes dope.

Vincent
19-04-2005, 18:11:25
Well, you got exactly the opposite

Spartak
19-04-2005, 18:11:30
That's the idea. Its traditional to have a short reign after a long one and its business as usual.

MattHiggs
19-04-2005, 18:12:56
I've just listened to the news on BBC. He wants Europe to return to it's christian values, including: NO homosexual marriage, NO cloning, NO contraception, NO divorce and NO MULTICULTRALISM. They should have elected Pope Micheal Howard.

:rolleyes:

Mightytree
19-04-2005, 18:14:21
Originally posted by Vincent
I was hoping for Adolf I

That would have been hilarious. :lol:

protein
19-04-2005, 18:15:44
It's okay, at least the Blair family isn't catholic.

oh dear

Spartak
19-04-2005, 18:19:40
He isn't, she is.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 18:24:08
he is, he takes catholic mass and everything- their kids are catholic. he just doesnt want to further alienate the voting populace by attesting to it publicly

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 18:25:50
Originally posted by MattHiggs
I've just listened to the news on BBC. He wants Europe to return to it's christian values, including: NO homosexual marriage, NO cloning, NO contraception, NO divorce and NO MULTICULTRALISM. They should have elected Pope Micheal Howard.

:rolleyes:

No multiculturalism??? Shouldn't he fuck off back to Germany in that case?

Catholics make me so angry.

Spartak
19-04-2005, 18:26:31
He hasn't been confirmed as a catholic - ergo he isn't a catholic.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 18:29:49
he is not confirmed, but he is catholic in every other possible way. I'd put money on him being confirmed the second Gordon Brown prizes him out of no 10

Venom
19-04-2005, 18:33:06
Originally posted by protein
A 78 year old? Are they taking the piss? He's bound to keep the whole abortion and contraception thing going and he's going to be dead in a year or so.

I demand a black, disabled, lesbian pope who actually smokes dope.

You're not a catholic so I'm pretty sure they don't give a flying fuck what you demand. You're going to hell anyway.

Venom
19-04-2005, 18:40:31
Oh and they chose an old dude because they didn't want another long serving pope. Probably a good idea.

Spartak
19-04-2005, 18:40:56
why would tony being Catholic annoy votors?

Lurker
19-04-2005, 18:48:37
I wanna go to hell, too. :(

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 19:03:03
Originally posted by Spartak
why would tony being Catholic annoy votors?

Because it would immediately align him with fundie views on abortion, contraception cloning etc. Better to appear liberal and non religious. Particularly seeing as we aren't a Catholic country

Spartak
19-04-2005, 19:04:13
It wouldn't both me at all. My best friend is Catholic and is the most liberal person I know...

Oerdin
19-04-2005, 19:05:58
Originally posted by Vincent
No, I think he's bavarian

He's the former Cardinal of Munich.

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 19:09:08
Devil, you are speaking out of your ass...there are as many stripes of Catholic as there are anything else.

Oerdin
19-04-2005, 19:10:43
But they're all Papist scum. :p

The reality is most Catholics don't give a flying leap about the church's doctrines. There are liberal Catholics, conservatve Catholics, and everything inbetween.

Lazarus and the Gimp
19-04-2005, 19:11:19
Originally posted by protein
A 78 year old? Are they taking the piss? He's bound to keep the whole abortion and contraception thing going and he's going to be dead in a year or so.



That's unfair and judgemental. He could easily last for 15 years of dribbling senility.

Oerdin
19-04-2005, 19:12:18
Something to look forward to then.

Venom
19-04-2005, 19:12:59
Originally posted by Lurker
I wanna go to hell, too. :(

You will you unwashed heathen. And I mean that, literally.

Lurker
19-04-2005, 19:18:46
YAAAAY!

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 19:21:22
Originally posted by Oerdin
But they're all Papist scum. :p

The reality is most Catholics don't give a flying leap about the church's doctrines. There are liberal Catholics, conservatve Catholics, and everything inbetween.

Thank you for putting my long and rambling post into such crystalline succinctness.

Oerdin
19-04-2005, 19:24:51
Oh please there was hardly any time in between. Obviously I was typing at the same time you where.

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 19:26:39
Oh...my bad...more the worse 'cause we think the same though.

Oerdin
19-04-2005, 19:27:24
That is bad.

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 19:36:19
Yes...and you a Californian.
Brrrr.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 21:39:08
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
Devil, you are speaking out of your ass...there are as many stripes of Catholic as there are anything else.

I don't think thats how the British voter would see it, and thats probably why Blair has chosen to be an undercover Catholic rather than an overt one. Catholic Prime Ministers here are virtually unheard of. Remember that as a country we made a very deliberate move away from Catholicism many years ago, and to most Brits it signifies a certain type of traditional conservative thinking. He would be attacked left right and centre by the press who would accuse him of backing all sorts of fundie crap, and all the fundies would attack him for being too liberal. Nope- its far easier to stay neutral and appeal to the broadest possible market

Chris
19-04-2005, 21:54:16
78 and ultra conservative, hates libalism, socialism and communism.

Yep, not going to be popular around these parts.

Chris
19-04-2005, 21:55:42
A double post for the old new pope.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 21:58:32
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=35403

There are several theories on why Blair has not yet taken the step. First, to convert right now Blair would need real courage. If he did so, his political burdens would multiply, as he would be required to embrace the Church’s teaching on moral issues. Although Blair has claimed to be “personally opposed to abortion,” his stance on embryo research, cloning, and abortion has been consistently anti-life. A press release from the Westminster-based Society for Unborn Children in November 2004 illustrates the point. The statement criticizes Blair for having voted to make abortion legal at any stage of pregnancy, on three occasions. It also states that he has “promoted the distribution of the morning-after pill to teenagers and given his personal support for the legislation on human cloning.”

from the Catholic World News

Personally I would have a huge issue with a publicly Catholic PM. I think its untenable, as he must either be seen to follow the real teachings of the church, ie anti abortion, anyti-contraception, anti-divorce etc, or face ridicule if he did not (YOur average Catholic can do what they like, but they aren't world leaders so its a matter for their conscience). Either way it wouldn't give me great hope for the countries fortunes. And I have to say, that as a woman who appreciates her right to have a termination should she wish to, and someone who believes in equality for different sexualities, etc, a Catholic leader would not inspire me to vote for him. I can only assume a fair whack of the population would feel similarly, and would need some convincing that such a leader would not start influencing national politics according to his personal beliefs, as has happened in America of late.

Provost Harrison
19-04-2005, 22:31:46
78?! LOL, I can see another Pope not too long off in the future...

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 22:43:44
He doesn't fit my image of the Pope. Who is casting this role, anyhow?

He'll probably cement in some hardcore tenets, call the waywards back to the flock via good old guilt and then step aside for a black or latin next who can up the population of the Church if the hard line doesn't appeal as planned.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 22:47:26
They should have cast Clint Eastwood, or Arnie- that would have been hard line :D

Provost Harrison
19-04-2005, 22:51:06
The man looks like a hardcore bastard...I suppose ideal pope material if the pinnacle of conservatism is what they are looking for...I wish the whole damn institution would go away and leave humanity alone...

Provost Harrison
19-04-2005, 22:52:23
DevilsH@lo, I think that religion should have absolutely no part in politics and Blair should not bring up his religion in his role...

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 23:03:06
I agree PH, and I'm not sure that thats consistent with being Catholic.

Ideally we'd have non religious leaders but I guess thats impossible or impractical at least, the question then is how to ensure religion does not influence politics. I guess he's been able to walk that tightrope thus far by not committing to Catholicism. I think with Blair his Catholic leanings wouldnt be such an issue if he werent so tight with fundy Bush. It scares me that two such important world leaders are potentially basing politics on teachings that seem to wilfully ignore the conditions of modernity.

Then again Charles Kennedy is a Catholic and I'm voting Lib Dem (if I can get over this tax thing) but not sure how I'd feel if he actually stood a chance of election on May 5th.

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 23:04:13
My, my, you Protestants are certainly strident in your hatred for Catholics...I'm surprised you didn't get on better with the Nazis after all???

Provost Harrison
19-04-2005, 23:05:55
Charles Kennedy is one too?! Sheesh, he has gone down in my opinion. Is there no sanity in politics?

Spartak
19-04-2005, 23:06:59
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
I'm voting Lib Dem (if I can get over this tax thing) but not sure how I'd feel if he actually stood a chance of election on May 5th. You should vote Labour no matter how distasteful because they actually have a chance of unseating the loathsome tory.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 23:07:25
a) I'm pagan not Protestant
b) I don't hate anyone (except clowns- they freak me out)
c) Individual Catholics can believe what they want as far as I'm concerned- what bothers me is the p[otential of extreme religious views (minority ones at that) to impact significantly on national politics

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 23:08:01
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Charles Kennedy is one too?! Sheesh, he has gone down in my opinion. Is there no sanity in politics?

worse still, he's a ginger :eek:

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 23:10:00
We're pretty tight with the Jews and Micks as well. That certainly can't bode well for us in the court of English opinion.

Provost Harrison
19-04-2005, 23:10:45
Originally posted by Spartak
You should vote Labour no matter how distasteful because they actually have a chance of unseating the loathsome tory.

I am in the same boat - I am still registered to vote in a marginal seat that the Tories have a good probability of taking (Bexleyheath and Crayford). I may vote Labour just to do my bit to deny them of a seat...

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 23:11:55
Originally posted by Spartak
You should vote Labour no matter how distasteful because they actually have a chance of unseating the loathsome tory.

well if everyone who thought that way voted lib dem....

I must admit the stability of the economy is a big pull towards labour, but I always said i'd never forgive them for betraying students. And they can fuck right off with their hard working family bullshit. :mad: I don't think the loathsome Tory and the loathsome labour are that far apart to be honest.

LoD
19-04-2005, 23:18:26
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
Remember that as a country we made a very deliberate move away from Catholicism many years ago, and to most Brits it signifies a certain type of traditional conservative thinking.

The reason for this move - so your king could marry any broad he likes.

Provost Harrison
19-04-2005, 23:19:19
Students and Iraq war...the reasons why I do not want to vote Labour - they have been particularly treacherous on these issues and it feels that if they are elected to a third term we are giving them a carte blanche to do what the fuck they like! :mad:

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 23:20:20
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
We're pretty tight with the Jews and Micks as well. That certainly can't bode well for us in the court of English opinion.

The current Tory leader is a Jew. I don't object to individuals beliefs, I am concerned about the unholy alliance of certain world leaders and their wont to ignore their voters and do what THEY feel is morally correct. I would never vote Tory, but if another leader was a Jew and it seemed that there was a risk of using their personal religious opinion to influence politics in Britain and abroad, I'd be equally wary. \its the combination of religion plus personality that is a concern in Blair's case.
I'm also not sure that being Jewish and PM would be as contradictory as being Catholic and PM.

DevilsH@lo
19-04-2005, 23:21:02
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Students and Iraq war...the reasons why I do not want to vote Labour - they have been particularly treacherous on these issues and it feels that if they are elected to a third term we are giving them a carte blanche to do what the fuck they like! :mad:

Yep- forgot Iraq lol

Provost Harrison
19-04-2005, 23:38:22
So all the leaders of the major political parties are bible/torahbashers then? Deary me...

BigGameHunter
19-04-2005, 23:59:26
Yeah, apparently while you were playing with your bunsen burner, a bunch of mystic goo goo gaa gaa took over the world on you.
Way to go, linear thinker!

Oerdin
20-04-2005, 00:06:03
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
They should have cast Clint Eastwood, or Arnie- that would have been hard line :D

The Pope-a-nator! :bounce:

:beer:

Darkstar
20-04-2005, 07:25:24
CG continues with it's Polyfication. This place can always be counted on for a laugh if religion or politics is mentioned.

MoSe
20-04-2005, 08:48:22
Originally posted by MattHiggs
I've just listened to the news on BBC. He wants Europe to return to it's christian values, ...

Our TV commented that he chose his name because allegedly Europe's patron saint is St.Benedict indeed (?), and that was to be intended as a plug against those who chose to not include a mention of Europe's Christian roots in the new european constitution...

Funko
20-04-2005, 11:07:04
Most of the "anti the less socially liberal aspects of Catholic teaching" voices you'll here from the UK aren't religious at all and equally criticise similar teachings in non-Catholic Christian, Muslim or whatever other churches/belief systems.

DaShi
20-04-2005, 11:11:11
Are you getting enough pope in your diet?

MoSe
20-04-2005, 11:15:30
or enough poop out of it?

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 11:20:19
"less socially liberal" aspects such as wilfully and deliberately promoting the spread of AIDS in third world countries, encouraging shame on women who become pregnant and forcing them to take dangerous risks to their health to deal with it, and cultivating intolerance for multiculturalism, homosexuality and divorce.

I would call those Draconian and wilfully ignorant and dangerous policies, not socially less liberal aspects.

However my gripe is with the Catholic church, not the followers of Catholicism, and I do feel equally vexed with some other religions. Usually the ones that fill their followers full of bile for other people's lifestyles, or denigrate women, stamp on human rights etc

Funko
20-04-2005, 11:31:45
They aren't deliberately promoting AIDS in the third world. That's just plain wrong. They are saying that in their view the solution is no sex before marriage followed by monogamy rather than increased sex education and contraception.

Now, I think that the former is naive and unworkable and the latter is more practical but the fact is that if African catholics were following the teachings of their church, they wouldn't be getting AIDS.

You might think that view is draconian, but in no way are they saying "go and have unprotected sex with as many people as possible" quite the opposite. That said, obviously I think that as their abstinence message isn't getting through they need to relax the anti-contraception one, the old pope (and the new one) believed that the general message of abstinence before marriage and monogamy was still what he believed in and rather than relaxing the contraception rules they should push the other half of the message too.

Do I agree? No. Do I think it's working? No. Do I think they are deliberately trying to make everyone in Africa catch AIDS with that policy? No, of course not.

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 11:34:21
the Catholic church disseminate literature in thrid world countries 'informing' people that condoms do not prevent the spread of AIDS. How is that not promoting the spread of AIDS?

Funko
20-04-2005, 11:40:48
I'd put money on that not being a central church policy... Some of the African bits of the church are a bit nutty though.

Although I think that's shockingly bad, they're message is still "don't use condoms, don't sleep around" Rather than sleep around as much as you want but don't use contraception - which would be promoting the spread of AIDS...


The solution is a bit of both. People not being promiscuous and using protection.

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 11:51:49
well I think failing to address a social reality and give such useless advice is something they should be held accountable for.

Greg W
20-04-2005, 12:11:47
Condoms are not foolproof protection against the spread of aids. FACT!

What the catholic church is trying to say, though you refuse to see it, is that they shouldn't be having sex in the first place. And that if they do, condoms will not stop the spread of aids.

What they're (perhaps - I haven't seen any African Catholic propoganda first hand) ignoring is that it will slow the spread of aids.

That however is still a long way from promoting the spread of aids.

Gary
20-04-2005, 12:56:20
I understand what the RC church is saying re abstinence. But I think it is a poor argument since it doesn't take human nature into consideration.

It's a case of, "this works even though it's against your nature, so if you don't go against your nature and stick to it as we say you should, then it's all your fault, not ours for faling to come up with a more practical alternative".

But you see this sort of arrogant stance wherever there is authority, so the church isn't alone there.

MoSe
20-04-2005, 13:04:52
Originally posted by Gary
the RC church

POPE KEITH!!!

Provost Harrison
20-04-2005, 13:10:36
The Nonce's Pope has arrived!

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 13:38:17
Originally posted by Greg W
Condoms are not foolproof protection against the spread of aids. FACT!

What the catholic church is trying to say, though you refuse to see it, is that they shouldn't be having sex in the first place. And that if they do, condoms will not stop the spread of aids.

What they're (perhaps - I haven't seen any African Catholic propoganda first hand) ignoring is that it will slow the spread of aids.

That however is still a long way from promoting the spread of aids.

No but they sure do help

I don'tthink its useful to tell people who are biologically programmed to shag, not to shag.

It also ignores the cultural reasons for the spread of AIDS, ie high incidence of rape in some of these countries, risky sexual practises, multiple partners after marriage etc.

Abdicating responsibility, is in my view equivalent to promotion. Its like letting the BNP get in becauseyou couldnt be arsed to vote.

Cruddy
20-04-2005, 13:41:38
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
I don'tthink its useful to tell people who are biologically programmed to shag, not to shag.



Of course it is! Then you can give them guilt trips and act all superior because they do what you don't.

I don't take sex advice from consecrated virgins.

Greg W
20-04-2005, 13:44:45
No, in fact the Africans help themselves. The church probably stops more AIDS than it causes it to be spread.

1) The church preaches not to have sex outside of marriage
2) The church preaches not to use condoms
3) Africans ignore one or both and spread aids

That's harsh blaming that on the church. If they followed what the church says, AIDS would stop spreading completely within one generation. If they're stupid enough to ignore the church on the count of having sex outside of marriage, and yet listen to the church telling them not to use condoms, then you can hardly blame the church for that, that's just Africans being morons.

Cruddy
20-04-2005, 13:50:49
Originally posted by Greg W
If they followed what the church says, AIDS would stop spreading completely within one generation.

No it wouldn't. Blood transfusions, accidents and dodgy surgical instruments would still infect people.

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 13:51:11
/slap Greg

Whats the first thing you want to do, if someone tells you not to do it????

Africans aren't morons, but in many areas they are very poorly educated, and will believe any old shit. In South AFrica, incidence of rape has increased because many poeple believe that shagging a virgin takes away the AIDS. Hence many children are infected.

A lot of the social values and norms in AFrican countries do not allow for safe sex, sex purely in marriage, or even monogamous sex once married. Therefore preaching abstinence may be factually correct but is totally unfeasible and deliberately ignorant.

The church's advice is as helpful as tits on a fish. Yet they are happy to see their flock dying of ignorance.

There's no excuse for it.

Venom
20-04-2005, 13:54:19
Africans aren't morons, but in many areas they are very poorly educated, and will believe any old shit.

Sounds like morons to me.

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 13:56:08
thats like saying babies are morons because they havent been to school yet :rolleyes:

zmama
20-04-2005, 13:57:08
better than bigots

Venom
20-04-2005, 14:01:09
Babies are morons.

Funko
20-04-2005, 16:03:39
If babies are so clever why can't they talk, read or do simple mathematics?

Venom
20-04-2005, 16:26:10
Exactly.

Cruddy
20-04-2005, 16:27:39
On other other hand, babies don't indulge in unsafe sex and get AIDS as a result. At least voluntarily - curse those witchdoctors.

Who's the moron now?

Venom
20-04-2005, 16:30:37
So babies are less moronic than Africans. I can see that.

LoD
20-04-2005, 16:32:37
Let's return to the topic, shall we?
http://www.francesco.biz/papa.jpg

Funko
20-04-2005, 16:32:47
Are African babies more or less moronic than African adults?

Venom
20-04-2005, 16:35:30
I would say yes. There's a certain learned moronicy that comes from, oddly enough, not being educated.

Funko
20-04-2005, 16:53:01
Can bad education make you more moronic though?

What's worse being ignorant or being wrong?

mr.G
20-04-2005, 17:00:04
I don't know, mostly i am both.

Immortal Wombat
20-04-2005, 17:05:52
Being wrong is worse. It implies both moronic and the ignorance of that moronicity. A moron who knows that they don't know [something] would know they are moronic and be more likely to learn the truth.

Venom
20-04-2005, 17:45:21
Yeah, being wrong is worse. Especially if you're one of those people who are so sure they are right.

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 17:46:29
fuck that. Never admit defeat.

Venom
20-04-2005, 17:50:07
Yes. I can believe you are a proponent of that theory.

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 17:56:57
i wouldnt be the only one round these parts :)

MOBIUS
20-04-2005, 17:58:44
Originally posted by LoD
Let's return to the topic, shall we?
http://www.francesco.biz/papa.jpg

Haha, that's a good likeness!:D

(quoted so we can see the pics again!)

protein
20-04-2005, 18:16:36
Originally posted by LoD
Let's return to the topic, shall we?
http://www.francesco.biz/papa.jpg
Oh my god. It's him.

:lol:

Venom
20-04-2005, 18:21:06
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
i wouldnt be the only one round these parts :)

No, you sure wouldn't. Most everybody that's posted in this thread can march in step.

MoSe
20-04-2005, 18:21:49
I can't raise my legs enough

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 18:34:48
Originally posted by Venom
No, you sure wouldn't. Most everybody that's posted in this thread can march in step.

Its a good thing to have conviction, at least we aren't all jellyfish.

If someone can convinceme I'm wrong about something, I'll change, but it rarely happens.

Venom
20-04-2005, 19:04:58
Originally posted by MoSe
I can't raise my legs enough

Probably because you're wearing tight ass, red pants.

Asher
20-04-2005, 19:30:54
Catholics are pathetic human beings.

Venom
20-04-2005, 19:57:02
You only say that as a cocksmokingalreadyburninginhell queer.

mr.G
20-04-2005, 20:24:05
Originally posted by Asher
Catholics are pathetic human beings. and gays hate to generalize

Asher
20-04-2005, 20:27:24
It's not generalizing if it is true by definition.

Venom
20-04-2005, 20:29:16
Congratulations on your blind bigotry then. I'm sure you and the All Queers are Unnatural Monsters group have a lot in common then.

mr.G
20-04-2005, 20:33:33
Originally posted by Asher
It's not generalizing if it is true by definition. please give me that definition.

Asher
20-04-2005, 20:50:13
Catholic = religious
Religious = pathetic

protein
20-04-2005, 20:55:54
Misguided rather than pathetic. If your parents, teachers and social leaders told you that the moon was definately made of cheese and that anyone who tells you otherwise is evil, you'd believe it too. At least outwardly.

Asher
20-04-2005, 21:00:10
I couldn't care less if the moon was made of cheese.

Provost Harrison
20-04-2005, 23:32:08
Originally posted by Greg W
Condoms are not foolproof protection against the spread of aids. FACT!

What the catholic church is trying to say, though you refuse to see it, is that they shouldn't be having sex in the first place. And that if they do, condoms will not stop the spread of aids.

What they're (perhaps - I haven't seen any African Catholic propoganda first hand) ignoring is that it will slow the spread of aids.

That however is still a long way from promoting the spread of aids.

Why the hell shouldn't they be having sex? It's a perfectly natural thing to do, and good exercise to boot! But the Catholic church are willfully denying their followers the use of contraception despite the fact they know full well the implications of this...that is plain neglect...

Provost Harrison
20-04-2005, 23:33:44
Originally posted by protein
Misguided rather than pathetic. If your parents, teachers and social leaders told you that the moon was definately made of cheese and that anyone who tells you otherwise is evil, you'd believe it too. At least outwardly.

Oversimplification...even if they say that, all evidence points to the contrary...so here we are...

protein
20-04-2005, 23:37:57
Evidence points to homosexuality not being evil, the world not being created in seven days, multiculturalism working etc etc. People just chose to ignore it because it is against their teachings.

Provost Harrison
20-04-2005, 23:39:35
People are stupid...

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 23:43:06
people shape experience by belief, and belief by experience- whaddya gonna do?

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 23:48:25
Originally posted by protein
Evidence points to homosexuality not being evil, the world not being created in seven days, multiculturalism working etc etc. People just chose to ignore it because it is against their teachings.

My mum teached me never to speak to strangers.............And you're all fucking strange :clueless:

I'm off :nervous:

Immortal Wombat
20-04-2005, 23:50:16
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
people fit shape experience by belief, and belief by experience- whaddya gonna do?
Release an extraordinarily virulent, uncurable, airbourne virus which affects only humanity.

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 23:51:49
fuck off will you edit my posts tossbag!!

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 23:57:01
Well it sense no made fucking!

DevilsH@lo
20-04-2005, 23:57:36
eat my shit, bum eyes!!!

Greg W
21-04-2005, 00:21:55
:hmm:

The Norks
21-04-2005, 00:24:01
It was too much for me,

we have split like in the beginning of the Dark Crystal! Only with less peopel sticking their hands up our arses

Greg W
21-04-2005, 00:27:33
The question is: Is DH now The Norks in a strange display of wanting to dress in lingerie? Is is SS now The Norks in a strange display of exhibitionism?

:nervous:

The Norks
21-04-2005, 00:30:21
lol, I AM THE NORKS!

hear me roar!!

We wre struggling for power trapped in one profile

JM^3
21-04-2005, 00:37:17
story at 11

JM

Cruddy
21-04-2005, 00:39:26
Originally posted by Asher
Catholic = religious
Religious = pathetic

Really? If you're looking down the barrel of a gun held by a fundie, you gonna be calling him pathetic then?

How about a sword held at your throat?

How about the Catholics who are practising homosexuals?

Not quite so easy to right off the whole lot.

Asher
21-04-2005, 00:46:38
If the fundie has to fight me with a gun, rather than one-on-one, you're damn right he's pathetic.

The whole lot is a pathetic bunch by definition. The homosexual Catholics are even worse than the fundie Catholics. At least the fundie Catholics are fully faithful to the dogma, the homosexual Catholics pick-and-choose which parts of the dogma to follow -- that's even more pathetic.

The Norks
21-04-2005, 00:48:51
i dont see how you can be a Mo and be a Catholic.

It makes no sense

Fistandantilus
21-04-2005, 00:52:20
pick-and-choose which parts of the dogma to follow -- that's even more pathetic


That's so British :p

Cruddy
21-04-2005, 00:52:30
Originally posted by Asher
If the fundie has to fight me with a gun, rather than one-on-one, you're damn right he's pathetic.

Saying it to their face would be life threatening though - maybe a rather pathetic action of defiance?

Originally posted by Asher
[B

The whole lot is a pathetic bunch by definition. The homosexual Catholics are even worse than the fundie Catholics. At least the fundie Catholics are fully faithful to the dogma, the homosexual Catholics pick-and-choose which parts of the dogma to follow -- that's even more pathetic. [/B]

But the homosexual Catholic cannot reconcile how they were made with what they were taught.

Personally I think the "Pope is always right dogma" is the only really pathetic thing about Catholics.

Complete abdication of responsibility, you see.

Venom
21-04-2005, 13:09:44
And that's an intelligent way to think, which leaves irrational twats like Asher out in the cold.

Asher
21-04-2005, 14:52:23
What's being irrational?

Catholics are like children who still believe in Santa.

Fistandantilus
21-04-2005, 15:02:13
Catholics are like children who still believe in Santa.

What's wrong with that?

Cruddy
21-04-2005, 15:05:13
Like I said, people who believe blindly that something is always right just because of the brand are irrational.

Word from the wise; people usually hate or dislike things about others that they (unconciously) hate or dislike about themselves.

Asher
21-04-2005, 15:06:24
Or more likely, they feel wronged by that person.

King_Ghidra
21-04-2005, 17:18:47
Originally posted by Cruddy
Word from the wise; people usually hate or dislike things about others that they (unconciously) hate or dislike about themselves.

ahh i wondered why i hated paedophiles, it's because i am one!

well thank god you wrote that down so future generations won't lose the benefit of your wisdom

Provost Harrison
21-04-2005, 23:35:11
:D

Cruddy, that is the most pathetic defence of religion I have ever seen!

Due to Asher's sexuality he probably feels the utter ridiculousness of religion more directly, the Catholics are a direct threat to his way of life and I can see why. His hostility is quite justified...

Greg W
22-04-2005, 00:48:08
Out of curiosity - what if the church is actually right?

I mean, there's no way to prove 100% either way which is right or wrong. Most of us just go with what our hearts or minds tell us. While I may not agree with much (possibly even most) of what the church says - I still admit that there's a possibility they're right. Cos there's just no proof either way, really.

Provost Harrison
22-04-2005, 00:54:24
And what is the probability of the church being right? What is the possibility of me formulating some crazy story about how the universe was made by a French cheese that was so ripe it gained sentience and it being right? Not a lot, to put it mildly...

Greg W
22-04-2005, 01:17:34
I'd say a much higher probability than your theory. At least there's some historical documents to prove some of it.

Having said that, how can you honestly judge the chance? We have no real point of reference, do we?

The Norks
22-04-2005, 01:18:39
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
And what is the probability of the church being right? What is the possibility of me formulating some crazy story about how the universe was made by a French cheese that was so ripe it gained sentience and it being right? Not a lot, to put it mildly...

You disrespectful fucking heathen! The universe is made of electronified jellybeans and you know it! My father has a sweet shop, and his jars are never full!

MOBIUS
22-04-2005, 01:22:15
Just in case we get confused, we'll call PH's version Protestantism and AH's Islamic Fundamentalism...

Any more theories?:)

The Norks
22-04-2005, 01:24:22
Originally posted by Greg W
I'd say a much higher probability than your theory. At least there's some historical documents to prove some of it.

Having said that, how can you honestly judge the chance? We have no real point of reference, do we?

the documents don't prove anything- they are stories, and whether you believe them or the reasoning behind them is down to the individual.

If anything, we can disprove much of it through science and history.

Plus, if we are talking about Catholicism specifically, a lot of the faith is based not on the bible teachings, but on bizarre superstitions that have grown up around it. Like- praying to the saints (in themselves a weird superstition) will release you from limbo if you werent quite bad enough to make it to hell. Don't eat fish on Fridays. Don't eat before Mass. Mary must have been without sin to produce a child without sin. etc. All these things (which are things I've known catholics to believe, I'm not claiming all believe, but they form relevant examples) are just traditions that have grown around the spiritual beliefs. Holy Fanfic if you will. It has nothing to do with what Mr J Christ said or did. We can knock those bits of religion down pretty easily because they are so obviously man made.

I don't think there's any evidence that Jesus was against homosexuals or divorcees or multiculturalism. Quite the opposite in fact. He wouldnt have been hanging out with prostitutes and non-Jews otherwise.

The Norks
22-04-2005, 01:35:26
Originally posted by Asher
What's being irrational?

Catholics are like children who still believe in Santa.

I don't think thats entirely fair- the spiritual beliefs of Christianity are very powerful and hopeful, I think the problem comes when churches try and manipulate them into rules and regulations to impose on people

Jesus was pretty inclusive, its the church thats exclusive. I'd say thats true of many if not most world religions.

Darkstar
22-04-2005, 08:37:07
Originally posted by protein
Evidence points to homosexuality not being evil, the world not being created in seven days, multiculturalism working etc etc. People just chose to ignore it because it is against their teachings.

Different is always bad with humans. So, one Jeffrey Dhamer, or any other similarly truly evil person that happens to also be gay, and normal same sex oriented people are marked as "just like that evil thing". Almost all humans do that. We base future expectations on past experiences. For instance, what happens when you see a priest always paying attention to whatever group of boys is around? Do you think he's channeling his paternal instincts or do you wonder how many churches/parishes he's been transferred between and why?

If the world/universe is being created by an all-powerful and all-knowing being, it can take however long said being wants it to take. Instantly, 5 trillion years, 15 picoseconds, or 6 days.

Multiculturism works? Doesn't work? Depends on the particulars.

People choose to believe in what they feel most comfortable with, or that which their unconscious or subconscios is focused on. It is extremely rare for someone to choose to believe in something because it is the logical conclusion. We are not logical beings, we are emotional beings who rationalize our decisions and beliefs after the fact.

Darkstar
22-04-2005, 08:46:33
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Due to Asher's sexuality he probably feels the utter ridiculousness of religion more directly, the Catholics are a direct threat to his way of life and I can see why. His hostility is quite justified...

Not true. Asher doesn't hate the Catholics because they are a threat to his way of life. Asher hates everything, because Asher hates himself. He's a prime candidate for a cult (religious/personal/ethnic power/etc) or the military.

When Asher gets over hating himself and hating the universe for allowing him to be aware in it, he'll eventually mature into something that makes fun of all the young, angsty things.

notyoueither
22-04-2005, 09:06:07
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
However my gripe is with the Catholic church, not the followers of Catholicism, and I do feel equally vexed with some other religions.

Except you seem particularlly virulent about Tony becoming Catholic.

What was it you were against, again?

Darkstar
22-04-2005, 09:07:17
What I find interesting, is when people start looking at what it took for us to get here.

When I say that, I mean, when they start to comprehend the odds of everything lining up to allow for us to be here, to have these silly discussions. Just a bit of astronomy is really enough to get people thinking such shallowly deep thoughts.

For instance, do you know that the odds are less then 50% that our star would survive in a safe zone of the galaxy to allow enough time for us to evolve? That there is less then a 30% chance that our planet wouldn't get kicked away from our sun during the time it took us to evolve? That the chances for our solar system forming into such a stable orbital pattern is so pathetically small that it takes serious scientific notation to just write it down? That the chances for us to have a moon to regulate our season is so small that... well, once you start stacking it all up, the odds of any multi-celled life having the opportunity and time to evolve from simple chemicals is less then the number of projected stars in the universe. Going past that, to reach us big brained mammals, the odds are so against THAT happening, that by statistical chances, well, we shouldn't be here.

Now, some people, once they start seeing the numbers go either:
A) "Well, we were bound to come about, eventually. Either there are more stars and galaxies then science currently knows, or there is an infinite number of universes and this is just one of the minority odd ones. Or the big bang and big ending cycle for infinity. regardless, there are just so many chances, we had to to happen".
B) "Well, theren't enough randomness possible for us to come about by accident. There must be something else that helped brought us about."

Just like that. You can watch people reach for that rationalization to justify what they feel. Ain't science grand? ;)

Cruddy
22-04-2005, 09:16:47
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
ahh i wondered why i hated paedophiles, it's because i am one!

well thank god you wrote that down so future generations won't lose the benefit of your wisdom

Not my words... I mean, I'm not the person who came up with the idea.

Also;-

Usually <> Always

The Norks
22-04-2005, 09:33:25
Originally posted by notyoueither
Except you seem particularlly virulent about Tony becoming Catholic.

What was it you were against, again?

I've already expressed my concerns- he can be a catholic, I just don't think thats particularly tenable for him if he wants to be pm of this country. ALready given my reasons.

Funko
22-04-2005, 10:14:34
He can be whatever religion he wants, it's irrelevant. We know he's a lying hypocrite (he's a politician) so what does it matter if he doesn't follow the church's teachings exactly in his political life?

Cruddy
22-04-2005, 10:43:15
Ulster loyalists might have a few things to say about that.

Like, "You lying traitorious gob shite tig".

The polite ones, anyone. The other's might just blow him up.

Funko
22-04-2005, 10:47:37
They fall under the blanket of "small group of nutters who shouldn't influence national policy"

Cruddy
22-04-2005, 10:49:16
Originally posted by Funko
They fall under the blanket of "small group of nutters who shouldn't influence national policy"

Fact is though, they do. :(

Funko
22-04-2005, 10:53:57
This is a really interesting article on the matter (sans hysteria)

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/04/09/ncatholic09.xml

MoSe
22-04-2005, 12:34:46
Originally posted by Darkstar
Now, some people, once they start seeing the numbers go either:
A) "Well, we were bound to come about, eventually. Either there are more stars and galaxies then science currently knows, or there is an infinite number of universes and this is just one of the minority odd ones. Or the big bang and big ending cycle for infinity. regardless, there are just so many chances, we had to to happen".
B) "Well, theren't enough randomness possible for us to come about by accident. There must be something else that helped brought us about."

Just like that. You can watch people reach for that rationalization to justify what they feel. Ain't science grand? ;)

C) we've been lucky
imagine you have a dice with one zillion sides (1dZ)
you only have ONE toss!
Any number on it only has one chance in a zillion to come out.
But ONE nuber DOES come out.
It had a ludicrous chance to, but that's what happened.
And there's NO need to see any purpose or predestination or help behind it.

Funko
22-04-2005, 12:38:10
The way the evidence is going it seems to be pointing to life being less unusual than some previous theories suggested, and as we are seeing more planets...

Read about The Drake Equation...

http://www.airynothing.com/smackerels/DrakeEquation.html

Asher
22-04-2005, 14:46:25
Originally posted by Darkstar
Not true. Asher doesn't hate the Catholics because they are a threat to his way of life. Asher hates everything, because Asher hates himself. He's a prime candidate for a cult (religious/personal/ethnic power/etc) or the military.

When Asher gets over hating himself and hating the universe for allowing him to be aware in it, he'll eventually mature into something that makes fun of all the young, angsty things.
:lol:

Greg W
22-04-2005, 14:52:37
Originally posted by The Norks
the documents don't prove anything- they are stories, and whether you believe them or the reasoning behind them is down to the individual.

If anything, we can disprove much of it through science and history.

Plus, if we are talking about Catholicism specifically, a lot of the faith is based not on the bible teachings, but on bizarre superstitions that have grown up around it. Like- praying to the saints (in themselves a weird superstition) will release you from limbo if you werent quite bad enough to make it to hell. Don't eat fish on Fridays. Don't eat before Mass. Mary must have been without sin to produce a child without sin. etc. All these things (which are things I've known catholics to believe, I'm not claiming all believe, but they form relevant examples) are just traditions that have grown around the spiritual beliefs. Holy Fanfic if you will. It has nothing to do with what Mr J Christ said or did. We can knock those bits of religion down pretty easily because they are so obviously man made.

I don't think there's any evidence that Jesus was against homosexuals or divorcees or multiculturalism. Quite the opposite in fact. He wouldnt have been hanging out with prostitutes and non-Jews otherwise. Actually, I was referring to Roman documentation, not the bible.

Faith is not based around shit like not eating fish on fridays.

Oh, and why did Jesus hang around with those people? Because he believed their souls could be saved, where meny were condemning them.

Don't get me wrong, I think Religion encompases some of the most evil things to happen to humanity. Look at the inquisition and the crusades for two glaring examples. However that is not to say that everything they do is wrong, nor that everything they believe in is wrong. You can't state (for example) that just because they slaughtered thousands during the crusades, that their opinions on gays is wrong.

I am yet to find proof either way about God, Jesus and the Bible. And frankly, it just doesn't exist. So don't dismiss it out of hand. On the other hand, also don't follow it blindly. Questioning is good, but dismissing it out of hand because you dislike things it's followers do is not necessarily so.

Hmm, had too much to drink to try and explain myself properly.

Greg W
22-04-2005, 14:53:41
Originally posted by Darkstar
Not true. Asher doesn't hate the Catholics because they are a threat to his way of life. Asher hates everything, because Asher hates himself. He's a prime candidate for a cult (religious/personal/ethnic power/etc) or the military.

When Asher gets over hating himself and hating the universe for allowing him to be aware in it, he'll eventually mature into something that makes fun of all the young, angsty things. Nah, he's just a conceited twat.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
22-04-2005, 15:06:06
Originally posted by The Norks
If anything, we can disprove much of it through science and history.

I don't disagree with this

Plus, if we are talking about Catholicism specifically, a lot of the faith is based not on the bible teachings, but on bizarre superstitions that have grown up around it. Like- praying to the saints (in themselves a weird superstition) will release you from limbo if you werent quite bad enough to make it to hell. Don't eat fish on Fridays. Don't eat before Mass. Mary must have been without sin to produce a child without sin. etc. All these things (which are things I've known catholics to believe, I'm not claiming all believe, but they form relevant examples) are just traditions that have grown around the spiritual beliefs. Holy Fanfic if you will. It has nothing to do with what Mr J Christ said or did. We can knock those bits of religion down pretty easily because they are so obviously man made.

A lot of the problems peopl ehave with Catholicism is made up from half-assed rubbish they hear from other people. Let's pick your post apart bit by bit... :)

* Praying to saints releases you from limbo. Er, not. Even after living with LoC for 5 years, and living in JudeoChristian-based society for 30ish, I still have no idea what prayer is for given a non-interventionist God. Praying to God or the saints is apprently to give you good happy vibes, or to make you feel like you're doing something when there's no alternative.

* No fish on Friday. This is a small version of Lent, where Catholics pick something to sacrifice. During Lent, it's usually something associated with a bad habit - self-improvement, if you will. No fish is just a form of sacrifice, and AFAIK isn't strictly necessary, so long as you sacrifice something else in it's place (no small animals). I'd guess fish is the traditional replacement food because of it's symbolic nature.

* Don't eat before Mass. Never heard of that one, perhaps it's a local custom? Certainly doesn't apply here.

* Mary was without sin. From my understanding, it's believed she was either witout sin or had very little, which was why she was chosen.

-- You can't necessarily knock out the traditions so easily - tradition is how people express their faith. Eliminating that would gut most people's belief systems.


I don't think there's any evidence that Jesus was against homosexuals or divorcees or multiculturalism. Quite the opposite in fact. He wouldnt have been hanging out with prostitutes and non-Jews otherwise.

Correct. But I'd say that falls into the category of "not condemning those that stray from the path, but trying to show them the 'error of their ways' by leading from example". Jesus hung around with a lot of "undesireables", but that doesn't mean that he wanted people at large to become like them.