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Lazarus and the Gimp
16-04-2005, 15:36:06
A PM I received from another forum.


Regarding the BNP thread, I am actually "hispanic". From Puerto Rico to be exact so I am quite familiar with the effects of racial mixing. I oppose it because it destroys the original races and I thus regard it as genocide. Many people seem to have some strange beliefs about Latin America. Whites are minorties in most of these countries but nevertheless occupy the top positions in society. This appears to still be the case in Paraguay, given the example of Stroessner, who appears to be white.

I was interested in your information regarding Paraguay since I believe it is a precedent for the enforced racial mixing that presently exists in most "Western" countries. The whole idea of enforcing racial mixing such that everyone will be the same in order to bring about the Marxist egalitarian utopia is not new after all. I regard such programs as genocidal and as crimes against humanity.

I think Japan provides a good model. It is 99.5% Japanese and most of the remaining 0.5% are Koreans, whom are racially and culturally similar to the Japanese.

In any case, I appreciate your information regarding Paraguay.


Is it worth explaining to him that, in his "good example", the Japanese aren't actually the natives of their islands? Making it actually a seriously bad example?

Oerdin
16-04-2005, 15:41:36
Is that an e-mail to your web site?

MRT144
16-04-2005, 15:41:51
man. talk about misguided.

and i thought this thread was gonna be about me. thank you for not doing that to me laz.

ChairmanXang
16-04-2005, 15:45:30
phew, I thought for a second this thread was about me.

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-04-2005, 15:47:34
Note the use of "Week" in the thread title. Not "Month" or "Eon", respectively.

Provost Harrison
16-04-2005, 18:03:20
Arsehole...plus the genetics of his argument are utterly flawed...the more diverse the mixing, the more healthy the progeny...

Ming
16-04-2005, 19:12:08
Well... at least I knew this thread wasn't about me before I opened it ;)

Diss
16-04-2005, 20:39:02
kill off everyone except the Japanese. We must preserve the races.

Spartak
16-04-2005, 20:40:54
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
A PM I received from another forum.



Is it worth explaining to him that, in his "good example", the Japanese aren't actually the natives of their islands? Making it actually a seriously bad example? Where do the Japanese come from if not from Japan?

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-04-2005, 20:48:05
Mongolia, via Korea.

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-04-2005, 20:49:52
The real natives of Japan are the Ainu, and some desendants can still be found on Hokkaido. They aren't of Mongoloid extraction.

Spartak
16-04-2005, 20:51:39
Ah right. These would be the darker skinned Japanese. Don't lots of sumo wrestlers come from Hokkaido?

HelloKitty
16-04-2005, 21:17:17
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
A PM I received from another forum.



Is it worth explaining to him that, in his "good example", the Japanese aren't actually the natives of their islands? Making it actually a seriously bad example?

No, because no one would believe you. People find it hard to believe that the actual native japanese, whom are very dark skinned and look more african than Asian, are still around.

HelloKitty
16-04-2005, 21:19:32
Guess I should probably say look more "aboriginal" since it is the pacific, rather than African.

Cruddy
16-04-2005, 23:22:24
Originally posted by HelloKitty
No, because no one would believe you. People find it hard to believe that the actual native japanese, whom are very dark skinned and look more african than Asian, are still around.

Hmm. They sound a little like the Maori on New Zealand.

Laz, I know I am surrounded by idiots - but I try not to let this fact colour my judgement day to day.

At leat whoever PM'd you can read, post a thread and use a forum.

They are on the road to enlightenment, even if they are stuck in a traffic jam at the minute.

Lazarus and the Gimp
17-04-2005, 11:08:33
Nutter alert! Nutter alert!


I did not say Japanwas 100% pure...geez. I just said it was a good model. No, no one is 100% pure, that is a straw man. But that does not mean that recognizable groups exist. And it does not mean that these groups are not worth preserving. If these groups are not worth preserving then are people so outraged at genocide?

I don't believe it is a joke. If you will notice the same people who promote mass immigration and racial mixing are the same ones promoting policies that lower birthrates. The same left-wing groups that promote mass immigration also promote abortion for instance.

The end result is that almost all white-majority countries have below replacement-level birthrates. Many of these are also flooded by immigrants with very high birthrates. Thus it is a double whammy. You have suicidally low birthrates amongst Europeans. The European population is shrinking and is being replaced by non-European immigrants with very high birthrates.

The people in charge and in the government are aware of the demographic consequences. Yet, they do nothing to stop it. On the contrary, they strongly oppose anyone who criticizes their policies. In fact they pass laws to outlaw their critics. In Belgium they banned Vlams Blok for instance. So as soon as their opponents start to peacefully win elections, they decide to outlaw the opposition. And we are told that Belgium is a "free democracy".

So essentially I regard them as guilty of genocide. They know what they are doing. And genocide is defined as a policy to eliminate an ethnic group. The United Nations has a few criteria for defining genocide. Here they are:

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html


Quote:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.




Thus clearly, actively killing people of an ethnic group is only of the many criteria used to define genocide. It is not necessary to physically kill people to be perpetrating genocide. There are ways to perpetrate "soft" genocides.

I believe what is happening in the "west" fits some of these definitions. The governments are clearly taking measures to prevent births amongst white Europeans through policies of abortion and the like. they are causing serious mental harm to the group by portraying the white man as the "cancer of humanity", in the words of a famous liberal feminist. I believe the rulers of the Western nations are clearly and deliberately pursuing policies that will destroy the European races. This much is so obvious that I do not see how they could not be doing it deliberately.

So I believe it fits the UN's definition. I also believe racial mixing is a tool used for genocide. It has been used in the past. It was used as a method by which to destroy American Indian cultures.

DaShi
17-04-2005, 11:18:04
This is Park Avenue/Bodd/whatever, isn't it?

zmama
17-04-2005, 11:24:11
Sadly it sounds like my sister-in-law. She is also Puerto Rican and has some very odd ideas about the purity of her people.

Creepy

Greg W
17-04-2005, 11:36:49
Summary!

DaShi
17-04-2005, 11:39:12
A boy like that, he killed your brother...

zmama
17-04-2005, 11:41:50
:lol:

Greg W
17-04-2005, 11:43:02
I think I need a stepladder - anyone?

zmama
17-04-2005, 11:44:32
Westside Story

Greg W
17-04-2005, 11:46:31
Ah, that would explain it - never seen it.

protein
17-04-2005, 12:36:52
The same left-wing groups that promote mass immigration also promote abortion for instance.
promote?

Where did I put my "abortion is groovy baby" t-shirt?

MRT144
17-04-2005, 13:24:56
laz, i think i get the title. i had sex with dacia on saturday.

Greg W
17-04-2005, 13:25:47
Yep, you win. :beer:

MRT144
17-04-2005, 13:42:06
i win in many ways. her life is ruined, she sleeps with someone she doesnt like (me), shes a slut and doesnt get why thats bad, and my life is getting better each and every day in every way.

tonight i was talking to her and was like "are we ever going to have a normal conversation? talking about sex and our sex lives gets boring" and she was like "i guess"

dude, shes gone and lost her mind. shes sleeping with guys that have GFs, 10 years her senior, and degenerate drug addled hipsters, and all she can talk about is sex sex sex. girl has gone and lost it.

BONG BITCH, BONG!

Greg W
17-04-2005, 13:43:50
Well, I'm glad that you're proud of what she's become.

zmama
17-04-2005, 13:44:41
Ok whatever

take it back to poly please

MRT144
17-04-2005, 13:46:40
ming wont let me.

im not only proud, i didnt have to do much. lazy and effective.

Greg W
17-04-2005, 13:48:54
One day you may begin to realise how hollow your victory is.

Then again, not likely...

Lazarus and the Gimp
17-04-2005, 13:49:29
Fuck off.

Chris
17-04-2005, 13:49:48
Originally posted by Greg W
Summary! Laz has again reached out and touched a lunatic.

Lazarus and the Gimp
17-04-2005, 13:49:52
X-post.

Chris
17-04-2005, 13:52:21
BTW, that theory is very interesting Laz, I never heard if before.

Greg W
17-04-2005, 13:52:27
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Fuck off. Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
X-post.Damn, and I thought for a moment I had managed to piss Laz off. :p

MRT144
17-04-2005, 13:53:34
laz, i knew id make you proud with my one fuck up after another.

greg youre right. were both losers. I fucking am acting like a child and bathing joyfully in the plight of others. shes setting herself up for something horrible.

and one more thing laz, youve been right about everything, no arguement.

Lazarus and the Gimp
17-04-2005, 14:00:12
Originally posted by Chris
BTW, that theory is very interesting Laz, I never heard if before.

The 535 catastrophe? It's a great one.

There's an excellent documentary on the subject that Channel 4 screened in their "Secrets of the dead" archaeological series. I think PBS showed it in the US too. The book by David Keys is a great read too- it tends to get grouped in with Hancock-style pseudo-history, which is a crashing injustice.

Chris
17-04-2005, 14:05:42
Yes, exactly.

It is similar to a theory I have heard about an explosion in the Med in about 1250 BC, I elaborated elsewhere.

It certainaly makes more sense then random chance, and there is no documented reason for certain events, such as the migrations from east to west in the early middle ages.

LoD
17-04-2005, 14:40:20
MRT: Would you mind not hijacking every thread for your exhibitionistic stories?

Or, as Laz said - fuck off.

MRT144
17-04-2005, 14:44:16
done

Spartak
17-04-2005, 17:04:57
Thank Christ. And Fuck Off from me as well.

Chris
17-04-2005, 17:44:30
Your welcome.

Spartak
17-04-2005, 18:12:55
Own Goal.

Phd - thats Christ not Chris.

Funko
18-04-2005, 09:53:51
Originally posted by zmama
Sadly it sounds like my sister-in-law. She is also Puerto Rican and has some very odd ideas about the purity of her people.

Creepy

If she's your sister-in-law she's married to your brother? And er... ok, I'm seeing a bit of a logical flaw there somehow...

Dyl Ulenspiegel
18-04-2005, 10:04:30
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
The 535 catastrophe? It's a great one.


535 AD plague?

Darkstar
18-04-2005, 10:15:29
Originally posted by protein
promote?

Where did I put my "abortion is groovy baby" t-shirt?

There was a place with such swag. Anyone still got the link for Protein?

Oerdin
18-04-2005, 10:22:20
Krakatoa erupted. It's a large volcano in Indonesia which infrequently blows its top but when it does it is a duessy. Supposedly it was the coupe de grace for the Romans and caused wide spread famine around the world for two years. When it did rain red volcanic ash was mixed with the rain as far away as Europe and people wrote about blood (red water) falling from the sky.

Provost Harrison
18-04-2005, 10:24:42
Ah forget that, we've got the Yellowstone Caldera to look forward to :D

Dyl Ulenspiegel
18-04-2005, 10:36:21
"Krakatoa erupted."

In 535? Is that confirmed meanwhile? AFAIK it was just a hypothesis for the desease and famine that struck mid 6th century.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
18-04-2005, 14:50:58
Potential modern volcano disaster:

http://www.underreported.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1124

Could wipe out much of the East Coast of the U.S., Cuba, and lots of NE South America. Time to move inland?

Immortal Wombat
18-04-2005, 15:08:58
Doesn't even have to be a volcano. I bet a well placed series of boreholes full of C4 would have a similar effect.

King_Ghidra
18-04-2005, 16:35:51
remind me to report IW to the relevant authorities

Lazarus and the Gimp
18-04-2005, 16:52:12
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
"Krakatoa erupted."

In 535? Is that confirmed meanwhile? AFAIK it was just a hypothesis for the desease and famine that struck mid 6th century.

I've posted a fairly lengthy article on the subject on the history forums at CFC and FFZ.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
18-04-2005, 16:52:20
Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Doesn't even have to be a volcano. I bet a well placed series of boreholes full of C4 would have a similar effect.

I was thinking much the same thing. Time to get the crack squad of CIA scuba divers to patrol the area at a cost of billions to the U.S. taxpayer!

Funko
18-04-2005, 16:55:44
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
I've posted a fairly lengthy article on the subject on the history forums at CFC and FFZ.

That must be good for the people that post there...

Dyl Ulenspiegel
18-04-2005, 17:08:36
I hate to say it, yet....

LINK?

Lazarus and the Gimp
18-04-2005, 17:14:27
What is the 535 Catastrophe theory?

This article revolves around the case presented by David Keys in his book "Catastrophe: An investigation into the origins of the modern world", which suggests that the "modern age" started in 535 AD with an eruption of Krakatoa. This eruption caused widespread climate change, resulting in floods, droughts and extreme low temperatures. In the aftermath, plague spreadacross the world. These factors destabilised old regimes all over the world, creating power vacuums into which new empires arose. Keys links this to the rise of Islam, the migration of the Avar to Europe (and the displacement of other people in the process), the rise of the Turks, the decline of Britain and Teotihuacan, the reunification of China and the rise of Buddhism in Japan.

"Catastrophe" is a great book, and I'm barely scratching the surface of it here. Buy a copy for every room in your house.


The eruption.

First off, the scientific facts. That there was huge climactic upheaval around the world after 535 AD is unquestionable- it's backed up by extensive dendrochronological evidence from all round the world. It's also highly likely to have been due to a volcanic eruption, going by the significant traces of volcanic action in ice-core samples dating from that time.

The question of where the eruption took place is actually fairly unimportant. After all, we all know the eruption of Tambora in the 19th century caused widespread climactic disruption around the world, but how many of us could pinpoint Tambora on a map? I couldn't. However, going by the historical records it's safe to go for East or South-East Asia, and most likely the "Ring of Fire" in the region of Indonesia. In that area, there's on infamous contender for the role- Krakatoa.

Krakatoa is a real oddball, and a dangerous one at that. It blew itself to smithereens in the explosion of 1883, but a new volcanic cone (Anak Krakatau) quickly rose in its place. The pattern of eruption appears to be a rapidly-growing cone, followed by mant centuries in a dormant state caused by plugging of the vent. Then an extremely violent eruption, followed by an underwater collapse of the caldera. Put simply, it's a very, very big bang.

So how could Krakatoa have caused such devastation in 535AD when the Tambora eruption of 1815 didn't? Tambora holds the official title as the largest ejection of volcanic matter into the atmosphere in recorded history- throwing out an estimated 100 cubic kilometres of matter into the air. However, it's estimated that the 535 eruption, based on observations of the caldera crater (see http://www.ees1.lanl.gov/Wohletz/Krakatau.htm for a detailed summary) threw up twice as much matter. Additionally, the undersea caldera collapse would also have thrown up a colossal amount of water vapour into the upper atmosphere, contributing to both greatly-increase cloud cover and extraordinarily heavy rainfall. Thirdly- Krakatoa explodes much more violently than Tambora (Tambora's blast was heard 2000 miles away, compared to 4000 miles away for the technically smaller Krakatoa blast of 1883), giving it the potential to hurl matter even higher into the atmosphere, causing more acute impacts on distant areas.

However, while this might all sound very convincing, in isolation it doesn't provide any sort of proof that this eruption actually had much impact on history. So for the next step you need to take a look at what was happening around the world up to a century after 535 AD....

Lazarus and the Gimp
18-04-2005, 17:14:51
Roman Empire

535 AD- Procopius writes of a year with no sunshine.

536 AD- Slavic invasions of Roman territory, sparked by Slavic poitical instability.

541-3 AD- Justinian Plague.

545 AD- Second Slavic invasion.

550 AD- Third Slavic invasion.

557 AD- the resurgent Avar reach Eastern Europe.

558 AD- Slavs, displaced by Huns (and indirectly by the Avar), invade Roman territory.

568 AD- Avar now control Eastern Europe

578 AD- Avar capture Sirmium. Romans now paying regular tribute to the Avar.

608 AD- Civil war spaked by Phocas.

626 AD- Constantinople surrounded by Avar, Slavs and Persians.

630 AD- recovery under Heraclius.


Britain

535- 555 AD- Dendrochronology records indicate a 20-year period of intense bad weather.

547 AD (or 549 AD)- Maelgwyn Hir dies of plague.

549 AD- Annals of Ulster record plague killing kings.

552 AD- Cynric's Saxons take Old Sarum. After a 40-year stalemate, Saxons push west.

550's- Rise of the Ui Neill in Ireland

577 AD- Battle of Dyrham. Ceawlin conquers British kingdom of Dumnonia. Saxons control England.


France

536 AD- Lothar (Merovingian) saved due to battle being interrupted by giant hailstones.


Spain

535-547 AD- three Visigoth kings assassinated in political turmoil

550 AD- Cordoba revolts against Visigoths.

555 AD- rise of Roman Spain.


China

535AD- "There was twice the sound of thunder"- Nan Shi chronicle.

535AD- Drought, famine "yellow dust rained down like snow" (from the Nan Shi Chronicle).

536 AD- Falls of yellow dust recorded in Sui-Shi chronicle (Southern China). Bei Shi annals report famines and cannibalism in Northern China.

537 AD- Nan Shi chronicle records Frosts and snow in August.

538- 551 AD- Tax amnesty in place due to widespread famine. Tax system collapses.

541 AD- Li Fen revolt around Hanoi area.

540's- Revolts in Northern China in the face of droughts and famine.

547 AD- Hou Jing (Northern General) defects to South, but is betrayed. Starts a major rebellion in the South.

548 AD- Hou Jing captures Southern capital Jiankang (Nanjing). Southern China begins to disintegrate.

575 AD- Northern state of Zhou attacks the South.

581 AD- Sui Dynasty begins in Northern China.

588 AD- North Chinese empire conquers Southern China. Re-unification of China.


South-East Asia

535AD- The Pustaka Raja Purwa chronicle records "a mighty roar of thunder" coming from a mountain in the Sunda Straits, that separates Java from Sumatra.

Mongolia/Steppes

545AD- Turkish revolt against Avar

552AD- Avar leave Mongolia and head West.

Rise of Qarluq Turkish empire on the steppes.

985 AD- Oghuzi (Seljuk) Tuks convert to Islam.


Korea

535-536AD- Massive storms and flooding recorded in the Korean history (the Samguk Sagi)

535 AD- Kingdom of Silla converts from paganism to Buddhism. Launches on an expansionist policy.

536 AD- start of the Konwon era ("the initiated beginning").

550- 576 AD- Silla territories triple in size.

675 AD- Korean unification under Silla.


Japan

536 AD- Nihonshoki chronicle records famine and terrible cold weather. Also plague (believed to be smallpox or measles).

538 AD- King Senka allows the Soga clan to convert to Buddhism as an experiment in the face of climactic upheaval.

540AD- Nihonshoki chronicle suggests increased immigration from Korea. Entries also suggest that Japan less troubled by famine than Korea and China. However, pestilence increases and is blamed on Buddhism. King Senka is assassinated (first royal assassination in Japanese history).

540's- King Kimmei is backed by the Soga clan.

587- Soga clan massacre the anti-Buddhist Mononobe clan.

580- Soga clan murders King Sujun. The pro-Soga Suiko is placed on the throne. Buddhists control Japan. Birth of proto-modern Japan.



South/Central America

535- 565AD- 30 years of drought. Skeletons recovered from Teotihuacan demonstrate signs of malnutrition and an abnormally short life expectancy. Teotihuacano civilisation declines. In South America, the Nasca culture declines too.

In the aftermath of the droughts, widespread irrigation projects take place- a key factor in the later growth of the Huari and Inca empires.


North America

Dendrochronology reveals near-zero tree growth in 536 and 542-3. Tree growth does not resume normal levels until 557AD.


Africa

Conjecture- increased rainfall causes surge in rodent population.

Mid 6th century- abandonment of the "great Metropolis" of Rhapta in west Africa (near Lake Victoria).


Middle East

c. 536-540 AD- Ibn Ishaq (writing 150 years laters) records severe famine in Mecca, relieved by Amr (grandfather of Mohammed) obtaining food from as far afield as Syria. This was also reported by the 6th century poet Wahb ibn Abd Qusayy.

540 AD- Plague hits the Saba civilisation in Yemen.

540's- Plague spreads across Arabian peninsula.

c. 545 AD- Marib Dam bursts after ten years of silting (18 times higher levels than the preceding century).

c. 555 AD- Marib Dam burst again. Irrigation complex largely abandoned. City of Marib unable to feed its population, population levels falling by 80% in next 40 years. Saba civilisation goes into decline. Power vacuum in the area.

575 AD- Birth of Mohammed.

610AD- Beginning of Mohammed's ministry.



Summaries of key events (according to 535 Catastrophe theory)


The Steppes

Dominated by the Avar, with the Turks being vassals. When drought hit the steppes in the climactic upheaval, the Avar (whose economy and military power revolved around horses) were hit hard as their horses starved. Meanwhile the Turks were predominantly cattle-herders, and the miracles of the bovine digestive system allowed the Turks to carry on much as before on the poor grass. The result was that the balance of power shifted and the Turks overthrew the Avar to become the dominant power in the area.

The Avar headed west into exile. As the droughts passed on their migration, the Avar's stength recovered and their horse numbers increased. By the time they hit Europe, they were a force to be reckoned with, as the Romans found out.


Constantinople.

Predictably, the Romans rode out the climactic upheaval better than most. Though their records note crop failures, their extensive trade network meant they could simply look further afield for food supplies, and they turned to Africa to trade extensively with Egypt. Egypt was also looking further afield for food- to the West African trading cities such as Rhapta. However, Rhapta is very close to the infamous "hot zone" around Lake Victoria that has given the world many horrible plagues, such as Ebola and Marburg. In 536AD, it was bubonic plague that came out of the zone into Rhapta- possibly exacerbated by a surge in the rodent population after heavy rains caused increased grain yields the following years (Africa seems to have been relatively lightly affected by climate change).

Plague spreads up the trade routes to Egypt, then to Constantinople in 541AD. The Romans are significantly weakened, and in the power vacuum that followed repeated incursions by Slavs and Avar further damage the Empire.


Britain.

The 40 year stalemate between the Britons and Saxons is ended after plague arrives. The Britons had extensive trade links with the Roman Empire and were hit hard by plague. The Saxons had very little to do with the Romans and got off fairly lightly. Several strong British leaders die of plague, including Maelgwyn Hir (the real King Arthur, according to me). This shifts the balance of power in favour of the Saxons, and by 577AD Britain is a Saxon country.


Middle East.

Massively abnormal silting destroys the Marib Dam and wrecks the irrigation that the Saba culture relies on. The Saba culture declines. Meanwhile, the status of Mohammed's family soars in the droughts that hit Mecca, setting the scene for Islam to rise in the power vacuum left by the fall of Saba.


China

Terrible drought strikes the divided China. In the South, this causes severe political instability which weakens the state. The North seizes the upper hand and by 588AD the North controls China. China is re-unified.

Lazarus and the Gimp
18-04-2005, 17:15:25
Why isn't Catastrophe theory widely accepted?

Firstly, it's the theory of dilettantes, not "serious historians". A "serious historian" specialises in a certain nation or culture to a tremendous degree, but can miss the big picture when it comes to global events. Meanwhile, a dilettante who dabbles in a bit of everything takes one look at everything that happened in the 50 years after 535AD and goes "Whoa! Bloody hell!".

Secondly, there's there inherent flaw with determinism- where do you stop? Why was it 535AD that caused this, and not something in 534 or earlier? Why must everything follow something else? If you go looking for magic causes, you tend to find them whether they're actually relevant or not.

Nothing happens in isolation. In most cases, none of the affected civilisations fell as an unquestionable 100% entire result of the eruption. Instead they were weakened and declined, creating power vacuums in which new empires rose. It requires looking at a complex series of interactions, and all I can see is that wherever you look you tend to see Krakatoa's fingerprints. While it may not have been the sole cause, it certainly was a cause- and a cause all over the world.

Thirdly, to really buy into 535 Catastrophe theory requires looking at a mix of disciplines- namely history, vulcanology and epidemiology (coincidentally, I was already interested in all three- which may explain why I'm such a sucker for the theory). This is particularly true when looking at the effects on Northern Europe, where one is required to accept that the Justinian Plague was an indirect result of the eruption. That's the biggest leap of faith in the theory.

If you study epidemiology, you became familiar with "Hot Zone" theory. Viruses tend to lurk quietly in isolated little areas of the world such as Lake Victoria in Africa (a notorious Hot Zone, linked with Ebola, Marburg and AIDS). In hot, humid conditions where animals and humans are in close proximity, the virus can jump species. Then the establishment of new/improved transport links to the area spreads the plague, just as the construction of the Kinshasa Highway brough AIDS out of the jungle. With the Romans facing disastrous crop failures in Europe and turning to trade links further south, a plague gateway is established.

There are two suggested factors that would link the eruption with the plague. Firstly, the increased trade movements to far-afield regions. We know the Romans had trade links to Western Africa- it's where their ivory came from. Increased trade movement would increase the chances of contagions spreading, and with the Romans looking further afield for food supplies this is a possibility.

The second epidemiological case comes from situations where animals and humans come into closer contact. I have not been able to locate dendrochronological evidence regarding the climate in West Africa at the time, though there are a number of posibilities. David Keys suggests that in the face of increased rainfall in 535AD, followed by relatively mild after-effects (as with the Japanese example) there could have been bumper cereal crops in the following years. This would have produced a very rapid rise in the rodent population, which often causes migrating swarms of rodents looking for new food sources- and rodents are the principle carriers of plague.
Alternatively, if the weather was severe in West Africa it could have caused humans to migrate looking for food, bringing them into plague zones. Upheaval causes plague to spread, so whichever way the weather went there could be links to the eruption.

There's no denying that the climactic upheaval affected culture all over the globe. Some seem to have got off fairly lightly, such as Japan and Africa. However others were hit very hard, such as Teotihuacan and the Avar. The real hinging point for the theory is whether you buy into the notion that the Justinian Plague of 541AD was caused by the 535 eruption. Having studied "Hot Zone" theories of epidemiology, I find it a very plausible explanation- though I can understand others having reservations. If you accept the plague as a result of the eruption, you get the fall of Britain, French dynastic implications and a huge impact on the Roman Empire too.


So that's the theory. Even if you don't buy the Justinian Plague angle, if you take a look at the world's history in the century after 535 AD, you have to admit it was one hell of a time.

Funko
18-04-2005, 17:28:23
Cool... interesting stuff. Thanks Laz.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
18-04-2005, 17:29:30
Hmm... climate problems and desease destabalized Europe mid 6th century and thereby allowed for some sweeping changes. So yes,
"Nothing happens in isolation." And that is not new.

The interesting thing is the gobal dimension. Might read up on some of those facts, thanks for the text.

Caligastia
18-04-2005, 21:38:33
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Arsehole...plus the genetics of his argument are utterly flawed...the more diverse the mixing, the more healthy the progeny...

It's true. The offspring of diverse parents will be particularly vigorous. Of course, the quality of the parent genes are also an important factor.