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View Full Version : Dangerous Waters review by Beta1


Nav
25-02-2005, 15:25:14
Link to Review (http://www.counterglow.com/article.php?id=dangerouswaters)

Thanks Beta1!

Venom
25-02-2005, 15:37:07
Done 12 days ago. You lazy wank.

King_Ghidra
25-02-2005, 15:41:58
nice job beta1

i haven't done a game review in a while, i shall try and rectify that

Bergzwerg
25-02-2005, 15:43:21
:brwncard:

Venom
25-02-2005, 16:14:30
I was thinking about doing a review as well. Now that I have my new machine. What game to review though?

King_Ghidra
25-02-2005, 16:16:27
a new one

Beta1
25-02-2005, 16:46:12
someone should do KOTOR II

someone other than me.

theres always a certain game with "total war" in the title.

Bergzwerg
25-02-2005, 16:47:55
Can someone do Half Life 2

King_Ghidra
25-02-2005, 16:49:31
well i was going to suggest KPOTOR II, but what's the point, half the posters here have played it to death already

i find some of the best games to review are the ones that maybe people wouldn't otherwise look out

Beta1
25-02-2005, 17:00:15
true, the review by mass posting tends to cover things like HL2/kotor/r:tw anyway.

On the other hand this sort of game never gets enough coverage.

Bergzwerg
25-02-2005, 17:02:55
Except no-one actually said anything about HL2 they were all too busy arguing about fucking Pokemon

http://www.counterglow.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24535

We should ban Asher from the Games forum.

Bergzwerg
25-02-2005, 17:05:06
(except MDA who said it was great)

zmama
25-02-2005, 17:06:49
That reminds me, after reading Beta's fine fine review :beer:...

I reread K_G's pokemon review. Don't think I ever said how good a review it was. Cool stuff :D

King_Ghidra
25-02-2005, 17:09:10
aw shucks, still some typos though :o

Venom
25-02-2005, 17:38:02
Alright. I'll do Half-Life 2. Unless anyone else has a request that doesn't have the words Total War in it. I'll pick it up this weekend.

Nav
25-02-2005, 17:41:45
Venom 7 days(ish), and I have been busy. btw thanks for volunteering to publish the next game review (should need you in oh 5 months!). :beer:

Venom
25-02-2005, 18:09:33
I still remember how to publish things. Anyone sends me a review, I'll publish. Since I don't have super powers though, I can only publish it generically, under my name, but that's the way it is.

Nav
25-02-2005, 19:50:31
I can grant you all that stuff. You just have to prepare the screenshots, add html formatting etc.

Venom
25-02-2005, 20:02:26
Damn, that sounds like work.

And also, I may be lying about HL2. Depending on the price, I may chicken out on buying it. I swore never to spend more than 40 bucks on a PC game ever again. Maybe I will do that Rome: Total War review.

zmama
25-02-2005, 21:13:58
Sounds odd, but try Walmart. They've had the best prices everytime I've looked.
Utter hell place to visit on a weekend though.

Venom
25-02-2005, 21:28:41
Oh god. The super wal-mart this weekend? I don't think I can make it. It also has the worst parking lot in the world.

zmama
25-02-2005, 21:43:15
Agreed...its the same everywhere.
But the last games I bought were at least $5 cheaper there than anywhere else..one was $10 cheaper

Thats real beer money there!!!

Venom
25-02-2005, 22:11:17
Real beer money indeed. I'll check it out.

Sir Penguin
26-02-2005, 00:08:35
Try eBay. You might be able to get it shipped from Asia for cheap. :)

SP

Venom
27-02-2005, 00:14:30
10$ more at Wal-Mart. What the fuck.

zmama
27-02-2005, 01:05:29
Sorry...its the cheapest here *shrug*
But my other alternatives are Sam Goody and EB so that could be why.

Gotta Best Buy opening up this week maybe that'll help put some more pressure on prices here

Venom
27-02-2005, 07:33:58
Best Buy's the cheapest here. I'll try to get there tomorrow.

MDA
28-02-2005, 12:59:22
court-MARTIAL!!! [/pedant]

Thanks, Beta. Good review.

Venom
03-03-2005, 02:50:51
Dangerous Waters arrived today.

King_Ghidra
07-03-2005, 11:10:39
I got metal gear solid 3 on the weekend, think i'll review that

Beta1
07-03-2005, 13:04:30
Venom - hows it going?

Spent 2 hours sub hunting on sunday.

Christ kilos are hard to find from the air. Looked on the replay and the target came within 1500 yards of a VLAD buoy and I didnt see him.

In the end I whacked a torp into the general area I was told he was in and he ran - then I picked him up

Venom
07-03-2005, 13:40:02
It's going pretty well. I ran my 688 aground at 35knots yesterday running from a torpedo. After all the hardwork of torpedoing the Kirvov and a destroyer.

Which reminds me...TASMs suck.

Beta1
07-03-2005, 13:52:12
yeah dont bother using ASMs of any kind against anything thats got decent AA defence - cruisers/carriers/AEGIS ships etc. Even minor countries destroyers will often take them down. I fired off the entire VLS system at the kirov and none of them got closer than 1000yds. On the other hand even single harpoons will often KO frigates. The russian sub launched cruise are better - one of them does Mach3 and sea skims on the final run in to the target. Very little you can do to stop that unless you pick it up on radar before it speeds up and hit it with a SM-2 at long range.

Last time I was flying a P-3 I dropped almost all my torps and wondered why they kept dissappearing. Turned out I had their presets set at a 200ft running depth and there was only 100ft of water.

Also smacked an akula into a sea mount when trying to get away from a torp...

Venom
07-03-2005, 14:00:45
And I suck with the P-3. Can't figure out how to fire the missles at the TACCO station where I want them. I should probably read up on that in the manual. Then I got shotdown.

I did ok with the 688. "Chased" (at 10knots max to their 20, that's not exactly a chase) the Kirov and 2 other ships due west on a intercept course. Gave myself away with the TASM launch. Missles get blown up. Destroyer comes my way (so does a MiG I find out later). Changed course south. Blasted the destroyer with 2 torpedos (I like to drive wire guided torpedos).

Then I launched a spread at the Kirov and the other ship (turned out to be an aircraft carrier) Hit the carrier with 3 torpedos (didn't sink) and the Kirov with 1 (barely even slowed down). That's when the helicopter found me and I started running...right into a mountain.

Lurker
07-03-2005, 16:33:20
Ha Ha!


Mmmm, tacos.

Beta1
08-03-2005, 17:07:09
LOL is that the barents sea breakout mission? Thats one of my favourites. First time I played that I set off south first then as soon as I got the new tasking I went to flank due west, sprint and drift - 15minutes fast and 5 minutes slow. I picked up the russian SAG about 15-20nm out thanks to them pinging away on active. They were already parrallel with me and doing 20kts and at the range they were at I couldnt reliably torpedo them. At this point I tried TASMs/Harpoons, gave my position away and got killed. Then I tried again and got to the same position. This time I went on a big sort of parabolic loop around them at flank speed. Kept a good 15nm away at all times but used my higher speed to gradually work my way around the front of the group (took about 2 hrs of game time) It helped that the russians didnt go in a straight line but occasionally changed direction a bit. Eventually got about 5nm ahead and 10off to the side. From there I ran in to about 10000yrds and attacked with torpedos. Fired all 4 tubes 2 for the kirov, one for the kutsenov and one for the destroyer. Got three hits (one of the ones for the kirov missed). Sank the destroyer and the kirov but only damaged the kutsenov. Then got suprised by a sub I wasnt expecting and ended up legging it north at flank speed. Fortunately I think it was a kilo as I out paced its torpedos and I never heard from it again. Mission successful (you dont have to sink the ships just damage them)

I'm getting quite good with the 688i and the MH60. the FFG gives me headaches as theres just too much to do. The seawolf is OK but I dont like the interface as much as the 688i although the extra tubes are usefull. Have played the akula a bit but the sonar system is a bit of a bitch.

I really really hate SSKs though - the AI often has them pootling around at 2kts and you dont hear them until you run into them. I found a ming doing 3kts the other day and I only picked it up on narrow band at about 3000yrds. I didnt see it on broadband at all untill it was under 1500. Thats way too close for comfort. I only saw it on narrowband because it was close to a trawler that I was trying to classify - as I moved south the bearings diverged and the filter picked up its narrowband signature. And mings are noisy too. If thing were more hectic and I had been busy I would just have assumed it was just a trawler and ignored it. Fortunately I was only doing 4 kts and with its shit sonar it probably didnt hear me until it had two adcaps bearing down on it. Even then I was just waiting for it to whack a 4 tube snapshot down my bearing. At 1500yrds I wouldnt even have been able to run the torpedos to exhaustion.

Venom
08-03-2005, 18:01:45
Stupid ass diesel boats. I think the way they have them modeled is a bit gamey, personally, but I have no experience to base that on. I mean, I know they're quiet, but 3000 yards?

Beta1
08-03-2005, 18:20:28
I think if they were charging around at 10 kts you would pick them up miles away and if they are stupid enough to be caught snorking they deserve to be toast. but at 1-2kts they should be pretty quiet. I think finding them is more a test of my patience - if I stay slow I will find them first because my sonar is better but its whether I can resist going in at 20kts all guns blazing.

Have you tried riding a pair of torpedos? I havnt tried this but it sounds plausible as a way of hedging your bets agaisnt a silent diesel if you have to get somewhere fast. Basically you run out a pair of wireguided torps but set them to run at about 30kts. Let them head out on the bearing you want to move down (500-1000 yds). Then set off after them at 30kts. The other guy sees a pair of torps but cant see your trace behind all the noise they make. He might make a snapshot down that bearing but at 30Kts you will probably close to inside their enable range before they do. When you are whereever you want to be drop back to zero knots and let leave the torps running.

Best result - other guy sees the torps and turns and runs. When you drop out of the noise you can wire guide one right onto him.

Worst result - other guy is there but not on the torpedo bearing - he sees the torps are not homing on him and stays quiet. He knows the line you were one when you fired from the torpedo bearing. If he is off to one side enough he may be able to seperate you from the torpedo noise....

Bit of a cowboy tactic, kind of a crazy ivan with a torpedo battering ram.

Or more sensibly you can swim out a UVV and use it to check the area ahead of you. Or more evilly you can swim out a Mk48 at low speed (5kts). They are fairly quiet at that speed. Get it into the area you want to flush and enable it - it starts pinging, circling and warms up to 50kts. Scares shite of diesel sub and flushes it out or just plain kills it. Still risks giving you bearing away if he picks up the incoming slow speed run. More complicated you cna fire it facing away from the target and wire guide it back over you shoulder to the suspect or even out sideways then in at an angle. (yes I have read SSN)

Venom
08-03-2005, 18:32:56
I have trouble with all the torpedo presets. Do you have to have take the station off autocrew to set all the presets? I can steer the ADCAP, just not set the speed and stuff like that.

Beta1
08-03-2005, 22:42:09
yeah you have to turn off the autocrew. I do that by default now - the TACCO autocrew clearly screwed someone to get on the boat. All the other station crews are at least competent and sometimes superhuman. The TACCO guy seems to thinkits a good idea to set torps to run at 100ft when theres only 60ft of water...

Venom
09-03-2005, 13:14:09
Those bastards. At least the sonar crew is good. They pick up things that I can't even see on the scope.

Beta1
09-03-2005, 13:18:12
try looking on narrowband - you often get a single frequency contact way before seeing it one broadband. Not that it does you much good - by the time youve moved enough to get a decent TMA you will have found it on broadband and get a master designator anyway.

Venom
09-03-2005, 13:47:08
Oh let's not even talk about TMA, that station is NEVER coming off autocrew.

Beta1
09-03-2005, 15:49:20
dam right. They get it close enough quickly enough 90% of the time.

Only time I had to fiddle was when they triangulated a land based radar station so it was in 100ft of water. (no it wasnt a oil rig)

Venom
09-03-2005, 16:38:29
Have you found any good missions for download yet?

MDA
09-03-2005, 18:57:00
I mentioned buying this to my wife and she asked if learning to read sonar really sounded fun to me. I said "yes", and she called me a nerd and laughed at me. :cry:

Beta1
09-03-2005, 19:13:51
LOL join the club.

When I was reviewing it I was playing a mission in the campaign where not much happens. She wandered into the room, looked at the screen and wandered out. 45minutes later she came back to ask if anything had happened. When I said no she suggested that maybe the review code didnt work properly. Then laughed when I told her that it was meant to be a tense stealth mission...

Venom
09-03-2005, 19:30:09
Tell them that the subs have cute shoes painted on the outside and they'll be all about it.

MDA
09-03-2005, 21:58:15
But, honey, I'm driving the pink submarine! from operation petticoat.

Venom
09-03-2005, 22:15:45
Those bitches will eat that shit up. Go ahead. Mod a pink Akula.

MDA
10-03-2005, 13:25:33
Just waiting for it to arrive.

Was it a good idea to order the manual? Seemed like I could waste 10 dollars in printer ink doing it myself, and I don't like Alt-tabbing back and forth from game to manual. Its huge.

Venom
10-03-2005, 13:39:38
It's a nice, thick manual and it's worth it to have so you can kick back and read up on things during some of the slower parts of the the game. Like when you're on a drift and you're waiting for the autocrew to pick up a contact.

King_Ghidra
10-03-2005, 13:51:00
this is the thread that finally proved what an incredible nerd you are venom

Venom
10-03-2005, 14:07:57
This thread? Not any of the other ones in the tech forum?

Of course I'm a nerd. Only a nerd could be so angry.

King_Ghidra
10-03-2005, 14:44:33
the tech forum doesn't count, everyone can unleash their secret nerd in there

Venom
10-03-2005, 14:58:25
I'm a nerd when it comes to weapons platforms.

MDA
13-03-2005, 12:47:40
Finished the 1st campaign mission yesterday. Still not sure how. I just cruised into the thick of things at periscope depth and identified as much as I could with passive narrowband and periscope photos.

The first two times I did nearly the same thing but got "mission over/can't be completed" messages.

The voice recognition is cool, but it has a really tough time recognizing raise/lower the periscope commands.

Can't wait to blow something up.

Beta1
13-03-2005, 17:51:23
it gets going a bit past the 3rd mission and the final few are quite mad.

One of them its best to just keep your head down and hope noone sends a sunburn your way...

MDA
13-03-2005, 19:21:36
Almost finished the second mission - I was counterdetected, but they seem to have lost track of me. All I have left to do is get out.

There's something patrolling the harbor mouth pinging away merrily. Should be interesting.

Beta1
14-03-2005, 09:22:18
LOL the final mission is great (well as a sub it is). Intercepting troops ships leaving a harbour. They have to pass between two islands in shallow water so I drove my 688i in behind one of the islands so I could see the harbour and get the course of the leaving ships before they went behind the island. Then I just sent wire guided torps out set to run slow and shallow so they wouldnt be detected and then to wait circling on passive in the straight. Picked up three troops ships without having to move. Thought about trying it again and deploying some SLMMs across the straight... Also fired one so it drove up the straight, made a left turn then went active and snaked up the harbour entrance. Didnt get a troop ship - it found a song class sub that was trying to find me.

Now I just have to get a good fix on the harbour buildings and cruise missile the place to peices.

One thing I dont get is that if they want me to tomahawk the place why dont they give me decent satelite images to get the targetting from so I can fire them from safety and use the missiles standoff range. Instead apparently I have to drive to within periscope range, triangulate the buildings then hit them from a position 10miles off shore. Thats a good use of a long range missile...

MDA
14-03-2005, 12:46:00
Sonar just got a lot easier- I discovered (accidentally :bash: ) that turning off the autocrew at the sonar station would allow me all the time I wanted to listen down a particular bearing, instead of beginning to cycle through the compass two seconds after I click where I want to listen.

I thought autocrew turned off automatically when you were at a station. Then I noticed the icon in the upper left hand corner and clicked on it. Geenyus!

My AI sonarman does have supernatural powers of detection, but his identification skills are horrible.

Beta1
14-03-2005, 13:13:59
yep, Actually I'm not sure he even bothers, just stick on the first thing that comes up on the filter. Even if it makes no sense at all.

Venom
14-03-2005, 13:25:11
When he says fishing boat, I know it's a sub. He loves the damn fishing boats.

MDA
14-03-2005, 13:30:39
One of the civilian craft he identified, I took a closer look at.

Torpedo. I had to force him to drop the track and classify it myself when it came up again.

Beta1
14-03-2005, 13:34:35
lol never seen that one - venoms right about the fishing boat though. Almost worth sending out a torpedo with a 20ft ceiling on it just in case!

Now I only let the AI handle TMA and sonar intercepts. If you let the autocrew loose with the ESM system it just clutters the entire map up with every contact going. Annoying when you just stuck the mast up to try and classifiy one contact by its radar profile.

MDA
15-03-2005, 13:20:02
Hah. Scratch two american subs. The Akula has soooo many fun weapons. I'm going to go back and play with the supercavitating torpedo just for fun.

The Helo is hard. I flew it into the oil rig at about 10-15 knots. I guess shouldn't use waypoints for that.

Beta1
15-03-2005, 13:26:50
LOL I had the opposite problem - the autocrew kept placing the oil rig about 200yds off on the navmap so I would fly there and find it was behind me. You would have thought they could get the position of a 200ft oil rig right when they are that close... In the end I just used the course/speed settings until I got the acknoldegement.

Venom
15-03-2005, 14:59:05
I love the Helo, it's like the only platform I'm good at.

Beta1
15-03-2005, 16:12:47
yeak its my favourite too. Maybe we should go and hunt MDAs akula...

Venom
15-03-2005, 17:04:57
The only thing I hate about the helo is not having the ability to create a Master contact. The Nav display can get seriously fucked up with all those lines from buoys designating the same target.

MDA
15-03-2005, 17:57:10
I actually prefer the passive display on the Akula over the 688. I like the way the actual contact frequencies get sandwiched in the library references.

Sonobuoys and dipping sonar are really, really useful, though. I located something bad yesterday with a buoy, but before I could figure out how to kill it, one of my other ships did it for me. They must pick up my contacts on the link. Helos go faster than subs, too.

MDA
17-03-2005, 10:53:47
some contacts seem to go straight up the chain and others have to be promoted - is it a confidence thing or is it all my imagination?

finished North Korea last night and it locked up my entire system when I hit fast forward on the replay. I actually had to reboot.

Venom
17-03-2005, 13:04:42
The replay system has a lot of problems I think.

MDA
17-03-2005, 13:25:24
Guess so. When I turn on "truth" in replay it puts 5 different adjacent locations for the same units.

Venom
17-03-2005, 13:59:10
It's not an entirely unbuggy game. I've seen some weird shit.

Beta1
18-03-2005, 18:00:04
Originally posted by MDA
I actually prefer the passive display on the Akula over the 688. I like the way the actual contact frequencies get sandwiched in the library references.

Sonobuoys and dipping sonar are really, really useful, though. I located something bad yesterday with a buoy, but before I could figure out how to kill it, one of my other ships did it for me. They must pick up my contacts on the link. Helos go faster than subs, too.

If your MH60 has a FFG7 as a base the FFG can see the output of your sonobouys so it would probably spot the target even if you didnt "promote to link"

MDA
18-03-2005, 18:33:29
Yeah, the campaign mission I think that happened in was the "resupply the oil rig with shoulder SAMs" one. There's an FFG to refuel at in it.

Its hard to believe, but I sometimes think the manual should have more info in it.



If you stay focused on your objectives, a lot of these missions can be finished VERY quickly. I tend to cruise around a lot randomly blowing up extra enemies after I've completed my objectives.

MDA
24-03-2005, 15:00:13
OK, I'll be the first to admit sinking myself with my own torpedo.

I was attacking a target about 10k away and I let the torpedo run 6 or 7k and turned it loose.

I had the preset to "circle" search - I was leading my target (a little too much) as it moved east, it hadn't acquired and went into search mode when I cut the wire. The torpedo circled to the east, away from the intended target, then the south, acquired me, and eventually ran me down, ignoring my countermeasures.

I guess I need to be more careful about how I lead an east/west moving target.

After reloading I let the autocrew fire on it instead. Same result. :bash:

Funko
24-03-2005, 16:21:27
:lol:

Venom
24-03-2005, 17:55:20
I really wish this game had better graphics.

MDA
24-03-2005, 18:04:38
That would be a screenshot worth keeping.

MDA
15-04-2005, 17:51:45
My CTD's with this game seem to have gotten more frequent.

If you navigate between the different stations too quickly, can it gag the computer?

Venom
15-04-2005, 18:36:36
I haven't noticed that, but I really haven't been playing that much. I've been spending a lot of time playing what I consider to be a far better sim; Silent Hunter 3.

Beta1
15-04-2005, 20:11:45
Not had any CTDs since upgrading to a GF6600GT.

Havnt had a go on Silent hunter 3 yet.You planning a review?

Venom
15-04-2005, 20:53:58
I'm thinking about reviewing it. Great game though. Tons of minor bugs that still somehow manage not to ruin it.

Beta1
15-04-2005, 21:04:49
lol maybe I'll wait a couple for a patch or two then.

Venom
15-04-2005, 21:30:51
Two out already. A third on the way. And graphics problems with all Nvidia cards (related to the drivers, not the game) in a certain screen on the game. So yeah. Take your time.

One great thing about the game is how easily it's moddable. Almost everything is in regular text files that any idiot can figure out how to change. I expect good things from the mod community on this one.

jsorense
16-04-2005, 13:46:41
An optomistic Venom? Who are you really and how did you get Venom's password?

Venom
16-04-2005, 14:12:35
Yeah. I'm never optimistic about good games.