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Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-02-2005, 15:52:50
What exactly do you transatlantic people mean by that? An appartment in a co-owned house, I assume. Anything else? Or is it more specific?

Btw, whoever wants the Condi-Minime thread, go ahead...

zmama
23-02-2005, 15:57:24
More complicated than that, of course. With a condo (in general) you own the apt or house but not the land...
You pay a fee for land and other maintenence to the association. And many many rules and regs, depending on the city and or state

Lurker is the one to give you the real answer.

Funkodrom
23-02-2005, 16:02:23
Is that what it means? Heard it in american tv/film etc. I thought it was a design of house.

Here it's freehold (you own the house and the land) or leasehold (eg you own a flat for a specified number of years - eg 100 but not the land the block it's in is built on). If all the leaseholders agree you can force the landlord to selll all leaseholders the freehold.

I think, not really an expert.

HelloKitty
23-02-2005, 17:37:41
Zmama is right, although condo usually refers to an apartment rather than ahouse.

Hawaii all the houses/apartments/etc are condos, because the native tribes own the land, they just don't own much of anything built on it.

zmama
23-02-2005, 17:46:05
Depends...in the 'burbs condos are mostly townhouses and not apartments...cities other way 'round.

HelloKitty
23-02-2005, 17:47:05
Yeah but townhouses are closer to appartments than they are to fully detatched homes.

Drekkus
23-02-2005, 17:49:24
Do you have condomaxiums as well?

HelloKitty
23-02-2005, 17:51:29
Yes.

Thats where we keep our minorities when we can frame them.

Oerdin
23-02-2005, 17:51:52
Condos are generally houses which are attached to another house on each side plus you must pay a home owners association to maintain the common grounds. Condos are bigger then apartments but not really real houses. Town Houses are normally unattached houses where the association owns the common grounds so you still have to pay monthly fees.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-02-2005, 17:57:57
No wonder the damn thing is totally confusing. So essentially, it can be anything short of an owned alone-standing house?

"Condos are bigger then apartments but not really real houses."

Maisonette?

zmama
23-02-2005, 17:58:56
perhaps in SOCal but in NYC condos are apartments...in say Rockland Co. NY condos are either attached or unattached houses. Its more the means of ownership than the physical shell

Oerdin
23-02-2005, 17:59:36
In apartments you often have only one story and people are above or below you. With condons there is no one above or below but only to the left or right. I own a town house which doesn't share any walls with anyone else but where the garage is connected to one neighbor's garage. I have to pay through the nose on home owners association fees but if anything breaks inside or out they fix it, they also paint everyone's houses periodically, and they maintain the green areas plus the pool and the sports club.

HelloKitty
23-02-2005, 17:59:58
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=active&q=define%3A+condominium

Oerdin
23-02-2005, 18:02:22
Originally posted by zmama
perhaps in SOCal but in NYC condos are apartments...in say Rockland Co. NY condos are either attached or unattached houses. Its more the means of ownership than the physical shell

I guess it varies from state to state.

zmama
23-02-2005, 18:03:21
Yup it does

Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-02-2005, 18:06:51
Originally posted by HelloKitty
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=active&q=define%3A+condominium

Well it means co-ownership (or co-posession), originally, and in anglosaxon law systems, you have a huge variety of such agreements (which I usually do not understand as I'm used to a different system). But what I wondered is what the average guy/gal means by a "condo".

zmama
23-02-2005, 18:11:12
As you have noticed...depends ;)

Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-02-2005, 18:12:42
I just waved good riddance to the "exactly " in my original question.

zmama
23-02-2005, 18:16:02
schmaartje one

Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-02-2005, 18:31:40
So, what is a Kondoje?

HelloKitty
23-02-2005, 18:34:33
A dutch igloo?

Drekkus
23-02-2005, 18:35:33
Kondome

C.G.B Spender
23-02-2005, 18:36:14
A used one?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-02-2005, 18:38:30
By two or more people?

zmama
23-02-2005, 18:39:04
Thats for the other site to answer

C.G.B Spender
23-02-2005, 18:39:56
It depends

Dyl Ulenspiegel
23-02-2005, 18:41:23
No, that does not depend.

C.G.B Spender
23-02-2005, 18:43:35
Of course.

Darkstar
23-02-2005, 20:11:12
Originally posted by zmama
Thats for the other site to answer

What? Apolyton is now posting about condom etiquette? Boy, they've really mellowed out lately!

zmama
23-02-2005, 20:12:28
Well, all those boys in one place...

MoSe
24-02-2005, 11:33:17
An aluminium condom?

MoSe
24-02-2005, 11:57:50
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
Well it means co-ownership (or co-posession), originally, and in anglosaxon law systems, you have a huge variety of such agreements (which I usually do not understand as I'm used to a different system). But what I wondered is what the average guy/gal means by a "condo".

I'm not sure we share the same system within EU either! :D

I can only be precise about my own experience.

A group of colleagues, amongst which my father, had set up a Cooperative.

The cooperative bought a plot of land in which at the time were emty field around S.Siro stadium, and had a sigle building built on it.
The building is 9-story plus basement "caves", and attics. Garden with garages. 20 apartments (2 floors have 3 smaller ones instead of 2).
Each owner owns his own apartment (plus eventual cave/attic/garage as annexes). The surface of his apartment is prorated to the total surface of all the apartments summed together, and expressed in thousandths. IIRC our apartment is ~110 m^2 and represents 42/1000th of the total property.
All the common parts (stairs, elevators, hall, hallways, common service balconies at every floor, roof, façade [yes the outside tiling is communal, regardless to which apartment it corresponds internally], common gym room, garden, garage access lanes, and the like) formally pertain to "the property", that is the cooperative; practically, owning the apartment you take part in the property of the corresponding thousandths quotaof the common parts.
Your vote in condominium assemblies on property subjects weighs as much as your thousandths quota, and for the same part you concur to the communal maintenance and extraodinary expenses for the common parts (with some exceptions: for instance, the elevator maintenace costs are prorated to the floor at which you live), including expenses for the communally hired/supplied utilities like water supply, central heating, garbage collection, centralised satellite antenna...

If you buy an apartment in our condominium (from the former owner), you automatically become member of the Cooperative and acquire at the same time the property of your thousandths quota of the communal parts...

At least, that's what I understood in the 39yrs I've been living there :D

Dyl Ulenspiegel
24-02-2005, 13:17:44
We have the same thing, and it's not EU-related but based on roman law where you cannot own a building without owning the land.

So "Each owner owns his own apartment" is really about an exclusive usage right. Also, the community of owners has no legal personality, but that principle gets watered down as it is a bit impractical, no idea how that aspect is in Italy.

MoSe
24-02-2005, 13:52:00
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
So "Each owner owns his own apartment" is really about an exclusive usage right.

No no, by us it's a real property, something you own and it's yours and can do anything you want with it and you pass it on to your heirs. It's a "bene immobile" (real estate asset?). The cooperative has no right or participation whatsoever on the single habitation units, which are indeed poperty units on their own.

Of course you can also have apt buildings owned by companies (typically insurance), and when they need to sell, they sometimes give the current renters the option to only buy the "lifetime usage" (usufrutto) instead of the whole apartment property. That means you can subrent but you can't sell it and when you die it reverts to the "nude owner" ( :lol: ) property.
I have no idea whether an apt building formely owned by a single comapny property automatically becomes a condominium when the company sells some of the apts to the renters.....


Also, the community of owners has no legal personality, ...., no idea how that aspect is in Italy. [/B]

Our Cooperative does. It was born and officially registered with the bureacracy and all even before the building (or its plans) existed.
For instance, the condominium administrator is hired by the Cooperative, and the janitor is a Cooperative's employee.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
24-02-2005, 14:02:12
"No no, by us it's a real property, something you own and it's yours and can do anything you want with it and you pass it on to your heirs."

If italian law adheres to the roman tradition, then what you pass on is the 42/1000ths of the building and your usage right that is tied to that share. It's mostly a formal construct to get pseudo-ownership of an apartment which you could not own under roman law.

paiktis22
24-02-2005, 16:24:46
I've been reading some law about intellectual property (when you write something for example) and there too it said that there are two models, the anglosaxon and the continental european one. most countries in europe follow the second one except the UK and Ireland whereas Holland has somekind of a hybrid lawsystem about that. the european one seems to be more protective of authors whereas the anglosaxon one is more in favor of the companies/employers. at least that's the impression I got.

Lurker
24-02-2005, 17:01:00
I haven't read all this, so if this is repetitive, too bad. Coops are a percentage interest in a multi-unit building owned by some type of corporation, coupled with a long term proprietary leasehold in your unit. A condo is real property, conveyed by deed and generally subject to a master deed, which generally is the means through which your rights and obligations rearding common areas are addressed. Those issues are addressed through corporate governance (by-laws, etc.) in coops.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-02-2005, 07:41:48
In sweden we have two appartment ownership models: Andelslägenhet (share appartment) and Bostadsrätt (right of habitation).

The former is now outdated and rarely used and involves a group of people owning a part of a building each. Not as in "your appartment", but as a kinda share in the building. It's decidedly impractical, not least because the shares can't be mortgaged separately.

The latter is bascially a legal wrangle for owning your appartment, to the extent that everyone refers to an owned (rather than rented) appartment as a bostadsrätt. I think this construct is reasonably recent, though, at least mid-20thC. It's bought, sold and mortgaged as if it were the appartment, and you pay a monthly fee to the bostadsrättsförening, the building's or groups of buildings' right-of-habitation association. This arranges maintenance, etc., plus stuff like collectively bargaining for cable and broadband.