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Funkodrom
15-02-2005, 13:59:59
http://www.christianteenforums.com/

Chris
15-02-2005, 14:03:51
I think its more frightening that you find these things.

Chris
15-02-2005, 14:04:59
This was also rather scary:

Our members have made a total of 126,707 posts
We have 1,161 registered members
The newest member is Roland
Most users ever online was 37 on Dec 14 2004, 07:47 PM

King_Ghidra
15-02-2005, 14:06:00
:lol:

Gary
15-02-2005, 14:07:55
:D

Venom
15-02-2005, 14:09:16
I'm a HARDMAN for at least 30 or 45 seconds.

KrazyHorse@home
15-02-2005, 14:10:41
What a bastion of ignorance.

King_Ghidra
15-02-2005, 14:11:45
great x-post

KrazyHorse@home
15-02-2005, 14:13:16
indeed.

Venom
15-02-2005, 14:13:26
Was it even an x-post?

Funkodrom
15-02-2005, 14:19:57
Evolutionists also say that a big explosion created the universe but they also teach(in the same class) that explosions destroy things. Everything that evolution has said to be true... it has proven its self false.

Venom
15-02-2005, 14:23:24
That is one giant logic leap.

King_Ghidra
15-02-2005, 14:24:47
well like any religious minded people they believe in a fucking omnipotent divine creator being who fashioned us from pure will or somesuch shit, so questioning their logic is kind of easy

Dyl Ulenspiegel
15-02-2005, 14:28:40
Originally posted by Chris
This was also rather scary:

Our members have made a total of 126,707 posts
We have 1,161 registered members
The newest member is Roland
Most users ever online was 37 on Dec 14 2004, 07:47 PM

What?

Funkodrom
15-02-2005, 14:29:52
Originally posted by Venom
That is one giant logic leap.

I'm convinced.

Gary
15-02-2005, 14:39:55
9. Profanity in any form is forbidden. This includes taking God's name in vain. Euphamims for profanities are not allowed. (i.e. frigging, frick, gosh darn it, ect.)U R A ... GOSH !!!!!

Eklektikos
15-02-2005, 15:06:52
1. All members are expected to behave in a Christ-like manner.
As in having themselves nailed to bits of wood and dying for the sins of mankind?

Kind of a tough entry requirement if you ask me.

Funkodrom
15-02-2005, 15:08:03
If they are turning water into wine they're welcome in my home anytime.

Can Jesus walk on water and turn it into wine at the same time? That would be cool. Venom, let's incorporate that effect into one of our movies.

protein
15-02-2005, 15:16:20
I never understood the "dying for our sins" bit. I mean, in what way exactly did this Jesus guy help anyone by being arrested and nailed to a plank? How does one bloke getting nailed to wood do anything for "our sins"? What are "our sins" anyway? Should I be feeling guilty about something?

Eklektikos
15-02-2005, 15:27:30
Originally posted by protein
Should I be feeling guilty about something?
Are you feeling guilty about something?

Immortal Wombat
15-02-2005, 15:31:50
Originally posted by Eklektikos
As in having themselves nailed to bits of wood and dying for the sins of mankind?
As in speaking in Aramaic.

miester gandertak
15-02-2005, 15:32:00
i killed a fly the other week

protein
15-02-2005, 15:34:26
Originally posted by Eklektikos
Are you feeling guilty about something?
No. Should I? If this bloke getting arrested and punished for breaking the law is somehow my fault and he did it for me I'd like to know.

Eklektikos
15-02-2005, 15:39:08
Originally posted by protein
No.
Must have worked then!

Venom
15-02-2005, 15:39:16
Oh yeah. The movie stuff. I've got work to do.

Beta1
15-02-2005, 15:48:26
Originally posted by miester gandertak
i killed a fly the other week

Bastard,

lets nail Mr G to a plank.

Funkodrom
15-02-2005, 15:52:39
OK, someone get Drekkus, I'll get the nails.

Beta1
15-02-2005, 15:53:22
:lol:

Venom
15-02-2005, 16:12:12
Wait! I get it! Because Drekkus is as dumb as a board. HARR!

Provost Harrison
15-02-2005, 16:17:35
Has anyone HARDMANed it yet? It deserves it!

Gary
15-02-2005, 17:00:48
I can turn wine into water, does that count ?

Gary
15-02-2005, 17:05:12
Originally posted by protein
No. Should I? If this bloke getting arrested and punished for breaking the law is somehow my fault and he did it for me I'd like to know. He did it so that Paul could convince you heathens about the true God. That is how he died for your sins.

Now you have heard "THE WORD" and have the oportunity to follow. Before you just got a bye into heaven, since you weren't to know.

Japher
15-02-2005, 17:16:31
hi all i just wanetd to put a question to y'all

lately i been feelin down cuz i think im losin my faith. i regstered here so could see what y'all have to say about it.

it all started about a year ago. first i started to like john kerry then buddhism really started to interest me. i went with my big sister to one of her buddist classes and they started meditating. i did it too but after a few minutes i think i saw a image of satan behind my eyelids. it was freeky!!! lol.

is this a sign? i still believe in jesus and all but i just think maybe he's sendin me a sign? if i go to church every week but also go to buddhist places too will i go to hell when i die? sum catholic told me id probably go to purgatory on another board but you know how those papists are LOL. j/k

ne ways, wot r your guys thougts?

Jimmycrackscorn

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-02-2005, 17:17:45
Originally posted by Eklektikos
As in having themselves nailed to bits of wood and dying for the sins of mankind?

Kind of a tough entry requirement if you ask me.

Assaulting local businessmen and hanging out with a hooker? Easy-peasy.

protein
15-02-2005, 17:46:03
Originally posted by Gary
He did it so that Paul could convince you heathens about the true God. That is how he died for your sins.

Now you have heard "THE WORD" and have the oportunity to follow. Before you just got a bye into heaven, since you weren't to know.
Wait. I still don't get it. This bloke got nailed to a tree against his will to show me god? It wasn't his choice was it?

Immortal Wombat
15-02-2005, 17:54:51
If he was the son of God and didn't want to be crucified, I think he would have been able to stop them. The way the Gospels explain his final days make it clear that it was entirely by his own choice.

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-02-2005, 18:00:08
Incidentally, their Gay Marriage "debate" is a good one. As non-Christians are banned from the debates forum, it's basically a minor spat over whether the issue is Mostly Wrong, or Entirely Wrong.

I'm half-tempted to register under the guise of a free-thinking Quaker and stir things up a bit.

MOBIUS
15-02-2005, 18:17:26
Do it!

I think we should all visit the site tomorrow morning as the mods are bound to all be American and we'll have a good five hours to 'rearrange' things...:)

Lazarus and the Gimp
15-02-2005, 18:22:39
Count me out. I have a real job.

MOBIUS
15-02-2005, 18:26:01
Well I'm not doing it - I'm a student, I only see the wrong part of AM...

Spartak
15-02-2005, 18:28:06
And how many times have you taken God's name in vain recently Laz?

zmama
15-02-2005, 18:30:29
In the past hour??

Japher
15-02-2005, 18:33:42
Maybe we should send our God AE over there?

protein
15-02-2005, 18:40:57
Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
If he was the son of God and didn't want to be crucified, I think he would have been able to stop them. The way the Gospels explain his final days make it clear that it was entirely by his own choice.
So assisted suicide is a good thing if you are the son of god?

It wasn't his choice anyway. He was clearly done for being a mentalist impersonating the son of god.

Gary
15-02-2005, 18:51:13
For a few of the members here, it's a good thing regardless :)

zmama
15-02-2005, 19:00:02
For the SOFTMEN here? ;)

Oerdin
16-02-2005, 00:08:43
There thread on Bush is worth a laugh to. Basically God hates Democrats and wants you to vote for Bush. I never knew that was in the bible.

DaShi
16-02-2005, 08:35:24
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Incidentally, their Gay Marriage "debate" is a good one. As non-Christians are banned from the debates forum, it's basically a minor spat over whether the issue is Mostly Wrong, or Entirely Wrong.


I browsed through their debates as well. All of them are basically like that. Entirely bland and boring. At least S'poly debates have name-calling and assinine trolling to liven it up a bit.

The Mad Monk
16-02-2005, 09:01:38
It's a totally harmless forum.

You know, like a certain catholic mothers' forum I'm sure you remember from a few years ago?

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:02:09
I'm sure we here have a corner on wisdom and all saints forever will smile on our pooh.

Christ, you guys are full of yourselves.

Gary
16-02-2005, 09:02:11
Name-calling and assinine trolling not allowed there according to the rules.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:05:22
That's a bad thing?

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:06:21
Damn. triple delayed post.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:07:15
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
It's a totally harmless forum.

You know, like a certain catholic mothers' forum I'm sure you remember from a few years ago?

No shit!

Where is LadyOfChicken to box some ears!

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 09:09:40
Originally posted by Oerdin
There thread on Bush is worth a laugh to. Basically God hates Democrats and wants you to vote for Bush. I never knew that was in the bible.

That IS the bible.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:14:18
I would've thought that was only the American Mark translation.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:31:38
I'd like to see a Jesuit critique of a forum of teens discussing the Big Bang. Chances are the teens might look fairly silly.

For that matter, I'd like to see anyone on this forum explain the Big Bang in terms that anyone who did not accept modern physics would accept.

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 09:33:16
I'd like to see you explain 1+1=2 in terms that anyone that doesn't accept basic arithmetic would accept.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:35:53
I'm not claiming I can explain the universe without God, but I can't explain where it came from either.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:38:03
'It came from a bang.'

Where'd that come from?

'Nothing, it just happened.'

Might as well pull cosmotology from your ass.

The Mad Monk
16-02-2005, 09:43:11
I've always considered The Big Bang to be one of the more beautiful pieces of evidence in favor of creationism.

DaShi
16-02-2005, 09:44:20
Where did God come from?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 09:47:47
It's one of the cornerstones of Christianity that the creator is uncreated. That lead to a debate about Jesus - if he is God, too, and the son, has he been created? IIRC, the orthodox answer is that he is uncreated too.

But on the issue - if you acept an uncreated God, why not accept an uncreated universe?

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:48:20
Originally posted by DaShi
Where did God come from?

Who the fuck knows? Sure as hell you lot don't.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:49:51
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
It's one of the cornerstones of Christianity that the creator is uncreated. That lead to a debate about Jesus - if he is God, too, and the son, has he been created? IIRC, the orthodox answer is that he is uncreated too.

But on the issue - if you acept an uncreated God, why not accept an uncreated universe?

It could be, but who knows?

That's why the twats who are sooo certain, on both sides, bug me.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 09:50:21
Listen, strange forces lyin' in extra-dimensions distributin' universes is no basis for a system of cosmology. Supreme knowlegde of creation derives from an understanding of reality, not from some farcical banging ceremony.

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 09:51:50
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I've always considered The Big Bang to be one of the more beautiful pieces of evidence in favor of creationism.

That's my point really. In fact the biblical "7 days" creation maps roughly onto the scientific explanation of how the universe started. OK, so the 7 days is actually billions of years* but the order is correct. There are many scientists who are religious see no problem with taking that 7 day creation as a metaphor.

You just get into trouble when people start treating the Bible as literal Truth (I hate that capital T) rather than a bunch of stories which (especially the new testament) when taken in the best light can help people be nicer to each other.



*Maybe God's days are just really long, after all how do you measure a day before you've created a planetary system. ;)

DaShi
16-02-2005, 09:52:57
Originally posted by notyoueither
Who the fuck knows? Sure as hell you lot don't.

So where should you pull God from?

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 09:53:27
You can pull him out of your arse, he's omnipresent so he must be there.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 09:53:30
Do you really expect there to be a scientific answer to what things looked like in a place where none of the laws of physics we derive here will necessarily hold true?

The fundamental principle that science works off of is the fact that physical laws are the same in all times and places. Speculating about what came before is a useless exercise.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 09:54:24
"Speculating about what came before is a useless exercise."

Especially if there just might have been no "before".

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 09:54:44
I use that word loosely.

Time didn't exist.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 09:55:25
exist didn't exist.

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 09:57:13
Personally - if people want to believe the Big Bang was an act of God - that's fine by me. I can't prove they're wrong.

But ignoring perfectly good science because it doesn't fit in with what some old book that's already confused but has been mistranslated many times over 4000 years says is totally retarded.

I've got no time for people who deliberately choose to be ignorant.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 10:00:00
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
Do you really expect there to be a scientific answer to what things looked like in a place where none of the laws of physics we derive here will necessarily hold true?

The fundamental principle that science works off of is the fact that physical laws are the same in all times and places. Speculating about what came before is a useless exercise.

Ergo you admit that science is ill equipped to explain the origins of the universe, because it is a 'useless excercise.' Yes?

The Mad Monk
16-02-2005, 10:00:46
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
It's one of the cornerstones of Christianity that the creator is uncreated. That lead to a debate about Jesus - if he is God, too, and the son, has he been created? IIRC, the orthodox answer is that he is uncreated too.

But on the issue - if you acept an uncreated God, why not accept an uncreated universe?

That was the soul of the Steady-State theory, which was used to support the concept of an uncreated universe.

The belief in an uncreated universe was once very popular among atheists, because it removed the need for a creator. It was also easy to support, because the universe appeared to be fundamentally unchanging.

Of course, advances in physics and astronomy throughout the early twentieth century soon killed off the whole "unchanging" idea, so the Steady-State theory was concocted as an alternative to the Big Bang Theory -- which, when first annonunced, was supported by many religious authorities as proof of Creation.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 10:01:34
That's so nye. :lol:

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 10:01:38
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Personally - if people want to believe the Big Bang was an act of God - that's fine by me. I can't prove they're wrong.

But ignoring perfectly good science because it doesn't fit in with what some old book that's already confused but has been mistranslated many times over 4000 years says is totally retarded.

I've got no time for people who deliberately choose to be ignorant.


They're kids for Christs sakes!

Criticise them when they are running for Parliament, but get the fuck off your high horse in the mean time.

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 10:09:52
Yes they're kids, and they're going to change in the next few years are they? How?

The stuff they say is barely different from the stuff you get some adults spouting, even at somewhere like 'poly. How are they going to learn if no-one tells them how retarded they're being. I assume that their parents and other grown-ups around them are feeding them this bullshit, so it's a genuine societal problem especially when they start voting. Ugh.

Why shouldn't I be up on my high horse if people are trying to spread hate and ignorance like this is. In my view it's a real danger to our society and it's sad to see kids regurgitating it.

The Mad Monk
16-02-2005, 10:13:40
people are trying to spread hate and ignorance like this is

Christian = hate and ignorance? :hmm:

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:15:05
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
exist didn't exist.

Now you're getting the hang of it.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 10:15:39
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Yes they're kids, and they're going to change in the next few years are they? How?

The stuff they say is barely different from the stuff you get some adults spouting, even at somewhere like 'poly. How are they going to learn if no-one tells them how retarded they're being. I assume that their parents and other grown-ups around them are feeding them this bullshit, so it's a genuine societal problem especially when they start voting. Ugh.

Why shouldn't I be up on my high horse if people are trying to spread hate and ignorance like this is. In my view it's a real danger to our society and it's sad to see kids regurgitating it.

Why shouldn't a community of Chistians be fussed about a group of teen atheists into physics who claimed to know all?

Spread hate? You mean believe in Christ and the Gospels? Or Mohammed and the Koran? Or Buddha and the Bhagavad Gita?

Why such a hate for these youngsters?

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:17:16
Originally posted by notyoueither
Ergo you admit that science is ill equipped to explain the origins of the universe, because it is a 'useless excercise.' Yes?

I admit that science is ill-equipped to deal with anything which we do not have any experience with.

I simply doubt that any other avenue of investigation is any better equipped.

People are free to say that God started the Big Bang. Good for them. It's a meaningless statement. Until it's shown we're in causal contact with something outside the Universe it's a meaningless statement.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 10:18:33
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
Now you're getting the hang of it.

Well, there's still a problem with "did" and not".

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:19:07
Don't overreach yourself on the first day.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 10:20:21
The point is that any statement about the origin of BB is meaningless, because there is no way of knowing.

Athiests can climb down off the horse now. They have no corner on knowledge.

We all place faith somewhere or other.

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 10:21:48
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Christian = hate and ignorance? :hmm:

No, I really, really like loads of the positive aspects of Christianity. To me it's basically about love and forgiveness. Who could have an issue with that?

Some of the things on that site are really depressing though. Especially in the gay marriage and abortion threads and in the attitudes some of them show towards people who are 'different' or 'wrong'.

I don't hate the kids. I've never said that. That's another example of nye arguing by putting the argument he wants to argue against in peoples mouths. Really it's not their fault I hate what they are being taught about the world.

On that site the kids seem as confused as kids anywhere, but the answers they are getting are IMO unhelpful at best and scary at worst.

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 10:22:20
Originally posted by notyoueither
The point is that any statement about the origin of BB is meaningless, because there is no way of knowing.

That's exactly what I said you twat. :bash:

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 10:22:24
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
Don't overreach yourself on the first day.

Don't worry, I've been enjoying this brainteaser for 20 years now.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:22:42
Originally posted by notyoueither
Why shouldn't a community of Chistians be fussed about a group of teen atheists into physics who claimed to know all?

Spread hate? You mean believe in Christ and the Gospels? Or Mohammed and the Koran? Or Buddha and the Bhagavad Gita?

Why such a hate for these youngsters?

I don't really think that place is filled with hatred.

But ignorance there simply abounds. The level of discussion is far below that of Poly (and of course, is incomparable to CG, which has transcended logic).

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 10:23:51
zen

Funkodrom
16-02-2005, 10:24:23
Poly is an incredibly low level of discussion, being below that is mind blowing - even though they are kids.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:28:44
Originally posted by notyoueither
The point is that any statement about the origin of BB is meaningless, because there is no way of knowing.

Athiests can climb down off the horse now. They have no corner on knowledge.

We all place faith somewhere or other.

Atheists certainly do place their faith in something, if they are properly atheist.

I suppose that I place my faith, as it were, in my reliance on observation, the idea that the whole is equal to the sum of its parts and the attraction toward simple explanations when simple explanations will do.

I'm a "weak atheist" in that I place a very low level of credence in the existence of invisible superbeings, but also realise that due to the limits of my perception cannot rule them out.

I'll stay on my high horse when it comes to people who continue to cling to superstition in the face of overwhelming physical observations.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:29:31
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
zen

What else would you call a place where the Dutch reside as honoured members of the community?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
16-02-2005, 10:30:15
zenje ?

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 10:32:37
Originally posted by Funkodrom
That's exactly what I said you twat. :bash:

I was answering KH, you twat! :bash:

:beer:

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:32:41
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Poly is an incredibly low level of discussion

Not that low. They have their Kidicouses and Neds, but a sizable minority of people there post intelligently.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 10:33:29
Originally posted by notyoueither
I was answering KH, you twat! :bash:

:beer:

Funny, because that's exactly what I said too, you twat. :bash:

:beer:

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 10:41:48
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
I suppose that I place my faith, as it were, in my reliance on observation, the idea that the whole is equal to the sum of its parts and the attraction toward simple explanations when simple explanations will do.

I'm a "weak atheist" in that I place a very low level of credence in the existence of invisible superbeings, but also realise that due to the limits of my perception cannot rule them out.

I call myself agnostic. I openly admit I do not know.

However, I do not dismiss either. And I too like simple explanations.

When it comes to the solar system and dinosaurs, I am happy to accept that the Earth was formed, and then bubbled, and then gurgled, and then spat out some flora and fauna to be caught in rocks or to escape and evolve.

Where I pause is why? and from where? That's where I wonder, and I look from here to there for different explanations of it, never settling on one, but still looking.

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 10:42:30
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
Funny, because that's exactly what I said too, you twat. :bash:

:beer:

We all have to say it in our own terms. :bash:

:beer:

King_Ghidra
16-02-2005, 10:53:35
Originally posted by notyoueither
Spread hate? You mean believe in Christ and the Gospels?

unofrtunately christianity is not just founded in the lovey dovey shit in the gospels but also in the madness of the old testament, the creation cockahoop and whacked out shit like the revelations

there are so many bucketloads of bizarre, inconsistent and terrifying behaviour elsewhere in the bible that also form what these people believe

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 11:06:34
You mean people like Mother Teresa?

And you mean like athiests haven't had some bucketloads of terrifying behaviour?

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 11:07:05
<-------Exhibit A

notyoueither
16-02-2005, 11:11:41
K_G, I think they are being human, not being a strange variety of human known as the religious.

King_Ghidra
16-02-2005, 12:00:53
Originally posted by notyoueither
You mean people like Mother Teresa?

err sorry? mother thersea was no doubt a very nice person, that doesn't mean she thought homosexality or abortion weren't downright wrong, for example

should i bring out an atheist who helped people by way of comparison? there's no point trading off nice and nasty religious/atheist figures, i was arguing that christian belief contains some very strange and warped stories and concepts as the base of its faith

Originally posted by notyoueither And you mean like athiests haven't had some bucketloads of terrifying behaviour?

no i don't mean that, you're making things up again - but the main difference is that atheists haven't spent several thousand years claiming their weird actions are guided by a mystic book that proves their righteousness

Ditto, all christians have very strange beliefs that must dominate their lives, for example the concept that their eternal soul rests on their every day actions. You seem to be arguing that these people are just normal people who happen to be into religion, but as an atheist i can only imagine how radically different my life would be if my every moral action might be the difference between being cast into hellfire or living it up in heaven.

As an atheist my tendency is towards not giving a shit, but if i was a religious person, i would have a considerable vested interest in the moral compass of the world.

[edit] and i meant to say, to bring it back to the topic, these kids are making decisions that are quite trivial to me (like whether to fuck before marriage or not or whether they like gays) and giving them the gravitas of a soul-threatening decision. That is no good for them or for society.

Oerdin
16-02-2005, 12:32:12
Originally posted by notyoueither
'It came from a bang.'

Where'd that come from?

'Nothing, it just happened.'

Might as well pull cosmotology from your ass.

Please note those fucktards are confusing two different issues. The Theory of evolution has nothing to do with the big bang or the creation of life; instead it simply details how natural selection is used to change gene frequency over time in animal populations. Those are two entirely unrelated subjects.

Gary
16-02-2005, 12:44:54
Absolutely.

Meanwhile, on the origin of the universe, I'm no physicist but I believe that the Big Bang can be explained in terms of quantum theory, and particularly with reference to the Uncertainty Principle, yes ? Anyone, feel free to fill in the details if that's your field of research.

So one can ask where such principles and maths and stuff comes from, but are we now less uncertain about the Big Bang itself ?

Also, just because one doesn't wish to speculate about the situation before the Big Bang, doesn't make it science unsuitable as a tool, as seemed to be suggested earlier. I don't wish to speculate what is north of the North Pole but that doesn't negate the worth of geography and such.

MDA
16-02-2005, 12:54:13
How did we get from HARDMAN to religion? :lol: This is surely a sign of the end times.

zmama
16-02-2005, 12:56:07
It's just WRONG I tell you


WRONG!!!

Gary
16-02-2005, 14:49:59
Easy. It was a religious site that everyone wimped out of HARDMANING.

You're all getting too mature in your old age :)

Venom
16-02-2005, 14:52:31
Christ almighty. How did this thread evolve? Fucking insanity.

zmama
16-02-2005, 14:53:02
Originally posted by Gary
Easy. It was a religious site that everyone wimped out of HARDMANING.

You're all getting too mature in your old age :)

100-0 :beer:

Gary
16-02-2005, 14:54:14
I'm surprised I'm not caught more often :p

Lazarus and the Gimp
16-02-2005, 17:59:29
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
It's a totally harmless forum.

You know, like a certain catholic mothers' forum I'm sure you remember from a few years ago?

I'm not entirely sure I can agree with that, and that's coming from one who isn't an atheist and is sympathetic with Christianity. I think it's possible to promote Christian values without prohibiting debate on the issue.

Faith needs to be questioned, as far as I can see.

Oerdin
16-02-2005, 20:07:36
Originally posted by notyoueither

Why such a hate for these youngsters?

I don't hate hate them. I just want to make fun of them so that they are emotionally damaged for the rest of their lives. They might even benifit from it if they start to realize that saying stupid things gets people to make fun of you.

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 20:27:06
Originally posted by Gary
Now you have heard "THE WORD" and have the oportunity to follow. Before you just got a bye into heaven, since you weren't to know.

So, Jesus screwed everyone because before God welcomed all, but now, you only get in if you follow what Paul's church teaches?

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 20:31:53
Originally posted by Funkodrom
You can pull him out of your arse, he's omnipresent so he must be there.

FACT! ;)

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 20:36:41
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
Do you really expect there to be a scientific answer to what things looked like in a place where none of the laws of physics we derive here will necessarily hold true?

The fundamental principle that science works off of is the fact that physical laws are the same in all times and places. Speculating about what came before is a useless exercise.

But science has shown that isn't true. The speed of light in a vacuum has been shown to have changed over time. It is slowing down, as the universe expands.

Come to think of it, a few other constants aren't really constants, from scientific observation. They actually changed over the length of the universe's aging. But, that messes with the die hard scientist... constants not being constants, certain laws not existing at the start of it all, others changing during the first 100 seconds, etc etc etc...

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 20:57:40
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
Atheists certainly do place their faith in something, if they are properly atheist.

I'm a "weak atheist" in that I place a very low level of credence in the existence of invisible superbeings, but also realise that due to the limits of my perception cannot rule them out.

I'll stay on my high horse when it comes to people who continue to cling to superstition in the face of overwhelming physical observations.

So, you are an agnostic? You believe that it is highly unlikely there is a great or small or somewhere in-between being(s) that pull the levers of existance? Atheists are sure there isn't any such things, after all.

People have always prefferred believing what they want to, and ignoring what doesn't fit. And in this day and age, when no man or woman could ever know everything that "science" knows, it is an inevitability that most people are superstitious. How many people do you think truly understand what a microwave oven does, other then heats up stuff? Most people forget it, if they were ever taught and that's a simple thing.

Science offers us the claim that "well, anyone can just go look up it all up and learn it", but so much of science is really beyond the average human's ability to comprehend because it takes a lot of knowledge and requires a certain mental framework or construct, which by dent of the person's experience or beliefs or education, they do not have. And then it is further confused, because you have "math", which is the foundation example given of "anyone can learn", compared to things that even science has little understanding of, such as the science of thought or human physiology (which we only know the very basics of, and of that, we don't understand much of it).

I dislike people using science to argue on issues science has no data on. Science never says "Blah". Science is a database of observations, and human guesses as to why we have observed such. It's the humans who decide "science tells us that entropy always increases" or "science tells us that grains mutant into rats which mutate into cats and/or snakes". That's all bull crap. Science tells us nothing. We tell ourselves that this concept seems to explain this behavior or data we have measured.

Sorry, got off on a tangent... been arguing with some rocket scientists recently on issues they have no clue on, but think because they know a bit about orbital physics, that qualifies them on all other subjects. Of course, making them apply SCIENTIFIC principles to stuff is just too much to asks of scientists. Nope. Slap in their personal superstistions and believing marketing hype. They are human, after all. ;)

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 21:06:20
Originally posted by Oerdin
The Theory of evolution has nothing to do with the big bang or the creation of life; instead it simply details how natural selection is used to change gene frequency over time in animal populations. Those are two entirely unrelated subjects.

"Survival of the Fittest" can be applied to learned behaviors which are able to be passed on by observation (seeing others doing it), or being actively taught (as has been witnessed in orcas teaching how to hunt to their young).

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 21:11:25
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Faith needs to be questioned, as far as I can see.

Well, there's the problem. Most religious leaders will tell you that faith doesn't need to be questioned. It needs to be tested, but not questioned. The difference is, if you question faith, you may decide on a different interpretation then what your religious leaders want you to believe. And that way, lies the reduction of their secular power. So questioning your faith is discouraged in most practices... although being human, it is presumed you will do so from time to time. But it is often taught that doing so is itself a sin (spiritual crime).

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 21:12:48
Originally posted by Darkstar
But science has shown that isn't true. The speed of light in a vacuum has been shown to have changed over time. It is slowing down, as the universe expands.

a) No it hasn't been demonstrated. Changing c is simply one of many hypotheses that would explain certain observations, and it's not even the most popular one

b) That's not what is meant. If the speed of light has changed then it's simply because it isn't a fundamental constant. There should be a more fundamental constant which combines with the expansion of the Universe to give the speed of light. If c changes unpredictably then you've got trouble.

Come to think of it, a few other constants aren't really constants, from scientific observation. They actually changed over the length of the universe's aging. But, that messes with the die hard scientist... constants not being constants, certain laws not existing at the start of it all, others changing during the first 100 seconds, etc etc etc...

Again, if these constants change without a background reason then there is trouble. If they change (again, not demonstrated) then I think most scientists would agree with me that the nature and rules of this change need to be explained. There has to be some sort of causal agent. This causal agent will then carry with it certain more fundamental constants.

It's like claiming that isotropy is broken because the speed of sound is different at sea level and at the top of Mount Everest. That's simply because the speed of sound is not a fundamental constant.

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 21:14:37
Originally posted by Gary
Also, just because one doesn't wish to speculate about the situation before the Big Bang, doesn't make it science unsuitable as a tool, as seemed to be suggested earlier. I don't wish to speculate what is north of the North Pole but that doesn't negate the worth of geography and such.

There is no harm in speculating. Its part of the scientific spirit to do so. Now, it can be embarassing to state such musings out loud or in print, but... ok. So there could be harm in it. If you are a professional. Humm... But, here, you should be safe speculating if you like. ;)

But, what is north of the north pole? A star. Quite a few, if you go far enough. A few other things like nebula, lost/expelled asteriods, comets, etc etc etc. ;)

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 21:15:31
Originally posted by Oerdin
I don't hate hate them. I just want to make fun of them so that they are emotionally damaged for the rest of their lives. They might even benifit from it if they start to realize that saying stupid things gets people to make fun of you.

Odds are, they learned that in the first or second grade already. ;)

Gary
16-02-2005, 21:26:05
Originally posted by Darkstar
So, Jesus screwed everyone because before God welcomed all, but now, you only get in if you follow what Paul's church teaches? Is it too late for a 100-0 ? :D

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 21:42:22
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
a) No it hasn't been demonstrated. Changing c is simply one of many hypotheses that would explain certain observations, and it's not even the most popular one

b) That's not what is meant. If the speed of light has changed then it's simply because it isn't a fundamental constant. There should be a more fundamental constant which combines with the expansion of the Universe to give the speed of light. If c changes unpredictably then you've got trouble.

It has been observed, which is the same thing as demonstrated for now, until such a time as we can make our own universes with our own specified physics to test theories (create, not model on a computer ;) ). Or so is the understanding the pros have imparted to me.

We can demonstrate that light will go faster then the speed of light in a vacuum. We have observational data that suggests that light hasn't always been at its current value for travelling in a vacuum. We know that the "speed of light" is not a fundamental law (because we can observe that the speed of light changes, so we know it isn't a pure constant, and we can make it go faster, so we know there isn't a "hard upper limit"). Since we know it can go faster, we have no hard proof that it hasn't. Since we have observations that suggest that it used to go faster, then perhaps it did in the past do so.

But you might as well proclaim "We've proved God exists" when that subject is brought up with many who should know better that it isn't a hard, fundamental constant. They'd accept ET is travelling in time before reproducable lab tests for their own observations. (Well, if they could afford the equipment and time and yadda yadda blah).

The problem with light changing its speed means: a) We don't know what we think we "fundamentally" know, and b) we don't have a clue why it changed and probably won't in the reasonable future of our species, as we won't last long enough as a species to observe further changes to better theorize about the underlying mechanism(s) at work. (Of course, we will go with the theories that best models what we observe, until we come up with something better. This is the scientific method, after all. But there is a better answer out there, we just have to find it, and when/if we do, we will update our scientific knowledge. ;).)

People just don't like you screwing with their superstitions/religions. Science becomes a superstition/religion when the followers and practioners are no longer willing to follow the data or be skeptical that what they know/believe is not always correct. Science is meant to be questioned. Faith is not.

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 21:43:02
Originally posted by Gary
Is it too late for a 100-0 ? :D

You going to 100-0 me? You know how embarassing that is, for you? Having to 100-0 the Darkstar. Man, are you sure you will be able to post here, ever again?




;)

Actually, I was serious. I've heard a few different answers about that matter. One is just that... in the beginning, people got a by into Heaven. Then Jesus came along, and bam! No it's just this one way. So, God decided Heaven was too crowded and sent down Jesus to allow for a more selective method to determining who was worthy of hanging out eternally with Him?

And another answer was "in the beginning, you went to Hell. Then Jesus came along, and bam! Now you have a way into Heaven." So, God hated His creations, but eventually decided to make the best out of a bad deal and sent down Jesus to show us how to grow into a person God didn't mind being a roomy with in the future?

I've heard this one as well. "in the beginning, God judged you by your own code. Then Jesus came along and bam! Now its a standardized code to get in." So, in the beginning, God had the time to judge everyone individually, based on their own personal beliefs, but this produced roomies of questionable caliber. So he instituted a standardized test to better filter improve the quality of who got accepted to Heaven?

All those answers seem odd to me. But then, I suppose a All-Knowing, All-Power being would seem odd to any of us. What with our limited knowledge, understanding, and reasoning.

Oerdin
16-02-2005, 22:00:01
Originally posted by Darkstar
Odds are, they learned that in the first or second grade already. ;)

Likely why they ban everyone who disagrees with them. They got tired of being laughing stocks after they got beat in yet another debate so they stopped playing.

Darkstar
16-02-2005, 22:07:41
They probably did it not for fear of ridicule, but due to the amount of trolls that come by. I can tell you from experience, such a board gathers more trolls then just about any other focused forum.

The downside to implementing strong measures is that it often stifles legitimate discussions or debates. So the trollers just end up creating islands of self-reinforcement, rather then someplace of actual thought or exploration of self or of their religion's teachings.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 22:29:26
Originally posted by Darkstar
So, you are an agnostic? You believe that it is highly unlikely there is a great or small or somewhere in-between being(s) that pull the levers of existance? Atheists are sure there isn't any such things, after all.

I see a real difference between what I call "weak atheism" (relegation of the existence of God or gods to very low order of probability) and what I call "agnosticism" (very significant level of doubt about either the existence or nonexistence of God, coupled with an urge to continue investigation of the subject).

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 22:30:02
Originally posted by Darkstar
It has been observed

No it hasn't.

Really.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 22:32:00
There are certain cosmological facts which have been observed. None of them is direct evidence of changing c. There are several good hypotheses to explain the observations. Only one of them involves changing c. Thus, to state that c changes is premature.

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 22:33:02
We can demonstrate that light will go faster then the speed of light in a vacuum.

No we can't. Go look up the difference between "phase velocity" and "group velocity".

KrazyHorse@home
16-02-2005, 22:34:33
Seriously, darkstar, your posts here are predicated on a lot of bullshit pop science.

Darkstar
17-02-2005, 03:16:41
So is most of science publishing. Your point is? ;)

It has been observed. Really. Due to those observations, it seems to be only logical explaination put forward that fits the data, as the data currently stands. It fits with several other bits of data. Or so bigger and better heads tell me. I'm just curious, and it seems to be an interesting item mentioned from time to time.

What I do know is that NASA has 2 "scheduled" satellites to study these observations and do a bit more experimentation (which goes straight over my head). Those birds are due for launch somewhere between 2012 and never. ESA and JAX have both expressed a desire to pursue their own launched experiments to further study the matter. I doubt they will, but they might get together with NASA to help actually fund a science probe. That would greatly improve the odds from a "scheduled" probe to something more likely to manifest real follow up science. ;)

Dyl Ulenspiegel
17-02-2005, 08:44:24
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
No we can't. Go look up the difference between "phase velocity" and "group velocity".

Sounds interesting. Can you give a short explanation how this relates to light faster than c (or "c", then, in that case).

KrazyHorse@home
17-02-2005, 13:15:27
Say you have an electromagnetic wave (I'm showing some piece of it). You come back some time t later and see that it looks the same except that all the peaks and troughs have been shifted by a distance d.

Great, you say. It travelled a distance d in a time t, so it must be going at speed d/t

Unfortunately it's not so simple. What you've found is the phase velocity vp of the wave.

The group velocity is the velocity at which wavefronts move. If I decide to start sending a message using a wave at t=0 it does not travel at speed vp. It travels at some different speed vg. In other words if I'm sending it to my friend x metres away my message gets there in time x/vg. Not in time x/vp.

In an electromagnetic wave in a vacuum with only the boundary conditions at infinity (in other words, you're not putting it in some sort of tube) the two velocities are the same. If you do put some sort of weird boundary conditions on the wave (like in a waveguide) the two are no longer the same. While vg remains at or below c for all possible setups, vp can easily be made to be higher than c.

The phase velocity is merely an illusion. No energy or information is actually moving at vp.

One simple analogy you can think of is if I were to build a large circular room with radius = 1 light minute (~1.8*10^10 m). I then stand in the centre of the room with the mother of all lasers. I point the laser at a wall, turn it on and start rotating once every 10 seconds. If somebody just watches the little red dot the laser is casting on the wall he sees it making 6 circuits of the room every minute, so in one minute it "travels" a distance of 6 * 2pi * r = 12 pi light minutes =37 light minutes or so. Does this mean that anything is actually travelling at 37 times the speed of light? Of course not.

Gary
17-02-2005, 13:25:18
Sure looks like it... look there goes that damn red dot again ! ... and again ! ... and again !

Can't someone stop KH before Einstein turns in his grave ? Anybody !?!

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 14:22:06
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity being made by people posting here. Firstly, you can't generalise about a faith that has many different denominational traditions, and secondly you're looking at a teens website. As NYE said, they're just kids, they're working this stuff out. Everything seems very black and white when you're a kid so I wouldn't take that website as a general example of Christian belief. Some of the most tolerant and inquisitive people I've known have been Christians. I've been to churches where vicars gave sermons on the nature of the universe and science. Most Christians I would say, accept science and question their faith and how it fits constantly.
Everyone has their own spiritual path, and if these beliefs do it for these kids they should be allowed to practise them without gay twats from this site popping over to ridicule them.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 14:24:00
I agree with most of what you said - as you'll have read in my posts.

But if people say stuff as stupid as some of those kids on that site they deserve being laughed at. Nothing to do with being religious or not.

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 14:34:14
I think thats a shocking attitude F. Ridicule is just a form of bullying. Teenagers (religious or otherwise)are going to make a lot of mistakes about a lot of things, and I don't think its your place or anyone else's to mock them. Whether you agree with their personal beliefs is one thing, but you don't have a monopoly on the truth so who are you to force your scientific beliefs on them? that makes you no better than missionaries converting 'savages'.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 14:43:13
I'm not forcing my scientific beliefs on them - not that you can have scientific beliefs as such anyway - or mocking them for being religious.

If they say stuff like "they say the world was created in the big bang but then they say explosions destroy stuff so that proves the Big Bang isn't true" it's really funny, and retarded.

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 14:48:03
So you're mocking their lack of scientific knowledge? They're teenagers, get over it. I'm sure once they've passed their GCSE's they'll be a bit more informed. Hey- lets go laugh at babies coz they cant walk yet!

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 14:48:40
Babies falling over is hillarious.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 14:50:55
They get that confused look on their face like "Huh? Why aren't I standing up anymore?"

Like the look Venom has when you ask him if he wants petrol.

protein
17-02-2005, 14:54:04
Toddlers nodding off and slamming their heads into their food bowl is also hillarious.

I don't see any difference in mocking their ignorant, bigoted beliefs and mocking David Icke. Or the BNP for that matter.

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 14:54:58
Babies falling over is funny, yes. especially if there is either an animal, a swing, or a cake involved.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 14:56:51
A small child kicking the ball into show off dad's nuts - best comedy in the world ever.

KrazyHorse@home
17-02-2005, 14:57:19
You bastards brought it back to religion. We were having a perfectly nice discussion about phase velocity. :cry:

protein
17-02-2005, 14:58:20
Trekkie forum

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 14:58:52
Originally posted by protein
Toddlers nodding off and slamming their heads into their food bowl is also hillarious.

I don't see any difference in mocking their ignorant, bigoted beliefs and mocking David Icke. Or the BNP for that matter.

You're missing the point here. THEY ARE KIDS. THEY WILL LEARN AND GROW UP.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 14:59:14
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
You bastards brought it back to religion. We were having a perfectly nice discussion about phase velocity. :cry:

It's ok, I inverted the tachyon field and it boosted us back to warp speed.

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 15:00:17
GEEKS GEEKS EVERYWHERE AND NOT A DROP TO DRINK

King_Ghidra
17-02-2005, 15:03:44
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
You're missing the point here. THEY ARE KIDS. THEY WILL LEARN AND GROW UP.

wasn't funko's earlier point that without somoene telling them what a bunch of idiots they are, they might not

kids don't have a monoply on ignorance or bigotry

protein
17-02-2005, 15:04:35
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
You're missing the point here. THEY ARE KIDS. THEY WILL LEARN AND GROW UP.
They are young adults and in no time at all they will be driving cars, flying planes, operating machinery and teaching children alongside normal people. I doubt that given the kind of powerful hold their parents/preachers/cult leaders have over them that they will suddenly become completely logical and sane on their 18th birthday.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:06:13
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
wasn't funko's earlier point that without somoene telling them what a bunch of idiots they are, they might not

kids don't have a monoply on ignorance or bigotry

I don't think she read my earlier points.

OldWarrior_42
17-02-2005, 15:09:26
Now this is entertainment. :)

I'm such a loser. :rolleyes:

Oerdin
17-02-2005, 15:15:16
Originally posted by protein
They are young adults and in no time at all they will be driving cars, flying planes, operating machinery and teaching children alongside normal people. I doubt that given the kind of powerful hold their parents/preachers/cult leaders have over them that they will suddenly become completely logical and sane on their 18th birthday.

More then likely they will graduate from high school and go to some "Christian" university which teaches them nothing and instead simply gives them four more years of religious indoctrination.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
17-02-2005, 15:23:28
Originally posted by KrazyHorse@home
Say you have an electromagnetic wave...

Thanks. So the phases essentially move at a point where they already are, instead of going there faster than the speed the light?

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 15:27:42
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
wasn't funko's earlier point that without somoene telling them what a bunch of idiots they are, they might not

kids don't have a monoply on ignorance or bigotry

I did read that point. and you're right that they might not learn, but its unlikely. People do learn as they they go through life and become exposed to different situations. Or are you all stuck at the level of development you had at 15? (don't answer that).

Firstly, again, I ask, who are you guys to tell them they are 'wrong' ie force your beliefs on them? You seem to be saying that your beliefs are more correct than theirs. Not everyone agrees with homosexuality or abortion or agrees that the world came about in a certain way. WHy cant you just accept that? Maybe specific individuals have hateful beliefs, or beliefs that are factually incorrect, but thats a different thing to saying they are all 'a bunch of idiots'.

Secondly, pointing out to someone that they are wrong, or educating them is very different to just laughing at them. How will that teach them to do anything but close ranks even more?

I still can't believe a group of 30 year olds is debating whether its fair to laugh at the beliefs of kids half their age. This whole thread is based around the smug sense of superiority that often rears its head on here whenever someone's beliefs don't fit into what is accepted as fact or sense on this board.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:31:04
Fuck off.

I'm not 30. :bash:

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:33:29
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
This whole thread is based around the smug sense of superiority that often rears its head on here whenever someone's beliefs don't fit into what is accepted as fact or sense on this board.

Typical Leo.

OldWarrior_42
17-02-2005, 15:34:35
Feeling the pressure of getting close, though, aren't you. :-P~~

OldFunkodrom_42. :D

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:35:31
You must be nearly OldWarrior_50? :p

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 15:39:14
Originally posted by protein
They are young adults and in no time at all they will be driving cars, flying planes, operating machinery and teaching children alongside normal people. I doubt that given the kind of powerful hold their parents/preachers/cult leaders have over them that they will suddenly become completely logical and sane on their 18th birthday.

so now Christians are ignorant, bigoted, illogical and insane, and are under the sway of a powerful mind washing cult that leaves them unable to operate machinery?

This whole thread shows a frightening intolerance. WHich is ironic since thats exactly what you're all complaining the Christian kids are doing.

This was started as a 'lets laugh at the religious people' thing, and now its being disguised as a quest to liberate the brainwashed, and educate the poor ill informed Christians.

I don't know what you expected to find by going onto a Christian teen website other than kids discussing teenage stuff in teenage ways and using religion to work it out. It seems to me that the act of finding and posting the website was done simply to mock from the outset. I say that makes you guys bigots.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:41:10
Some of my best friends are Christians. :D

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:46:29
And the reason the site was posted was because they have a really, really, really strict moderation policy so our extremely childish passtime of finding a forum, registering HARDMAN and posting "u r all gay twats" would be particularly funny. :lol:

I suspect you won't think that's quite as funny and cool as we do. :D

protein
17-02-2005, 15:48:55
So we should just let people get away with being homophobic right wing illogical nut jobs because by bringing the subject up we are stooping to their level?

That's like saying you shouldn't call a nazi a nazi because by doing so you are a nazi.

:rolleyes:

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 15:50:11
you suspect right.

Why don't you just walk into a church and say it mid sermon?

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:50:14
Hate the ideas not the people. :love:

OldWarrior_42
17-02-2005, 15:53:19
_48

In a few weeks. :)

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:55:34
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
you suspect right.

Why don't you just walk into a church and say it mid sermon?

:lol: :lol:

A real extreme redneck church. Would need a fast getaway car and a video cameraman.

Venom?

protein
17-02-2005, 15:57:29
I'd be willing to help organise that. We could turn it into an online video phenomenon. Different church/religion each week.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 15:59:20
In real life though you'd lose the fun of the first person to reply "at least I can spell".

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 16:01:55
And The HARDMAN's nothing to do with religion. We could do it anywhere.

The Windsor Castle Gift Shop, Ann Summers, an old peoples home, Henley Rowing Club...

Provost Harrison
17-02-2005, 16:03:20
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Hate the ideas not the people. :love:

No, they're fuckwits...hate the ideas and the people :D

Oerdin
17-02-2005, 16:04:21
Some religious girls are really cute tough. Maybe if they were just sent to reeducation camp for a while...

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 16:05:14
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
No, they're fuckwits...hate the ideas and the people :D

You're a fuckwit, you want us to go round hating you?

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 16:05:25
Originally posted by protein
So we should just let people get away with being homophobic right wing illogical nut jobs because by bringing the subject up we are stooping to their level?

That's like saying you shouldn't call a nazi a nazi because by doing so you are a nazi.

:rolleyes:

What I question Protein, is where the dividing line between education and evangelism is drawn. Clearly, if someone is saying lets put a load of Jews in a gas chamber they need some kind of corrective action, however if someone is saying I don't agree with abortion, well who are we to put that person 'right'? Its up to them to make their own moral choices.

I also think the assumptions you make about Christian belief are shockingly ignorant. You seem to think Christians are all brainwashed freaks. As one example, my Dad was a Presbyterian, he went on missions and taught in Sunday school when he was younger, yet he was so left wing he was Communist, he was amazingly analytical, he never tried to convert me in fact he rarely spoke about his beliefs, and he believed that homosexuals and women and people of other faiths were all equal, and he raised us that way too. He just lived by a code of conduct that was informed by his interpretation of the gospels. I also used to live with the son of a Baptist preacher, and while his life was focused around Christianity and he had certain beliefs I didnt agree with, he would just explain why he believed that, and leave it at that. He wasn't out lynching gays or protesting outside abortion clinics.

Now, I have also met Christians who were catholic, and had some very odd beliefs and used the religion to exclude the social groups they didnt approve of. BUT you get Fundies in all walks of life. It is not fair to label all Christians as illogical nutters just because a few may be. Thats the same as saying all Muslims are terrorists.

Oerdin
17-02-2005, 16:07:54
Originally posted by Funkodrom
You're a fuckwit, you want us to go round hating you?

He's not a fuckwit. He's just a poor homeless person who sleeps on the street. :coolgrin:

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 16:08:26
Originally posted by Funkodrom
And The HARDMAN's nothing to do with religion. We could do it anywhere.

The Windsor Castle Gift Shop, Ann Summers, an old peoples home, Henley Rowing Club...

so the Christian bashing is just an added bonus then

OldWarrior_42
17-02-2005, 16:09:46
My wife and kids are Catholic and they are normal.

Well.... scratch that. Nevermind. :D

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 16:12:14
Originally posted by Oerdin
Some religious girls are really cute tough. Maybe if they were just sent to reeducation camp for a while...

you are a walking erection at the moment Oerdin...you must be backed up like a wax dart :)

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 16:14:16
Originally posted by OldWarrior_42
My wife and kids are Catholic and they are normal.

Well.... scratch that. Nevermind. :D

just to clarify, I meant that these particular Catholics were a bit weird, not all catholics.

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 16:15:12
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
so the Christian bashing is just an added bonus then

I thought you said you'd been reading my posts. I haven't been Christian bashing. :beer:

OldWarrior_42
17-02-2005, 16:15:29
just to clarify, I meant that these particular Catholics were a bit weird, not all catholics.

I know.

I don't do serious hardly ever on the internet.

Fear the xpost. :p

Oerdin
17-02-2005, 16:20:08
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
you are a walking erection at the moment Oerdin...you must be backed up like a wax dart :)

No, old habits just die hard. I actually have a girlfriend. ;)

sleeping_satsuma
17-02-2005, 16:22:52
I think I just felt my heart breaking :cry:

:lol:

Provost Harrison
17-02-2005, 16:26:13
Originally posted by Funkodrom
You're a fuckwit, you want us to go round hating you?

Now that's not nice :p

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 16:28:56
Exactly. :)

Provost Harrison
17-02-2005, 16:49:20
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Typical Leo.

Leo?

http://photo.sing365.com/music/picture.nsf/Leo-Sayer-photo/48256C71003578A2482569990036B369/$file/Leo+Sayer.jpg

Funkodrom
17-02-2005, 16:56:36
Is that Drekkus without the beard?

MDA
17-02-2005, 18:25:11
Did someone call for a fuckwit?

DaShi
17-02-2005, 18:29:24
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
so now Christians are ignorant, bigoted, illogical and insane, and are under the sway of a powerful mind washing cult that leaves them unable to operate machinery?

This whole thread shows a frightening intolerance. WHich is ironic since thats exactly what you're all complaining the Christian kids are doing.

This was started as a 'lets laugh at the religious people' thing, and now its being disguised as a quest to liberate the brainwashed, and educate the poor ill informed Christians.

I don't know what you expected to find by going onto a Christian teen website other than kids discussing teenage stuff in teenage ways and using religion to work it out. It seems to me that the act of finding and posting the website was done simply to mock from the outset. I say that makes you guys bigots.

I'd just like to point out that I've kept the faith of the original intention of this thread.

Provost Harrison
17-02-2005, 18:36:07
Doesn't avoid the fact that religion is a logical fallacy with no backup...

protein
17-02-2005, 18:39:26
You shalt be smited for that heathen.

Provost Harrison
17-02-2005, 18:43:01
Jolly good!

DaShi
17-02-2005, 18:43:14
I've been smitten by a kitten!

http://www.vivisectioninfo.org/vivcampaigns/kitten.jpg

KrazyHorse@home
17-02-2005, 18:45:22
THAT'S MY KITTEN!

at least, that's the one I created my longest-serving avatar from.

DaShi
17-02-2005, 18:47:25
Ah, yes. I thought the source seemed familiar somehow.

DaShi
17-02-2005, 18:52:27
This one is better:

http://www.smittenkitten.net/images/skpic01.gif

DaShi
17-02-2005, 19:05:51
Yep, that's a thread killer, if I've ever seen one.

Oerdin
17-02-2005, 19:50:49
Show that site to those freaky guy over at poly who wank off to pictures of furries.

notyoueither
18-02-2005, 08:22:18
Originally posted by Funkodrom
I thought you said you'd been reading my posts. I haven't been Christian bashing. :beer:

Try reading the chorus who seem to be on your side.

Of course you're being sweet and reasonable, while lighting the match, then standing back and laughing.

notyoueither
18-02-2005, 08:25:13
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
[edit] and i meant to say, to bring it back to the topic, these kids are making decisions that are quite trivial to me (like whether to fuck before marriage or not or whether they like gays) and giving them the gravitas of a soul-threatening decision. That is no good for them or for society.

So now your opinions of what is important or not form the basis of what should concern all of society? Can you spell puritan?

notyoueither
18-02-2005, 08:25:47
Or Bloody Mary?

King_Ghidra
18-02-2005, 09:05:48
don't be an idiot, do you think i sit around moralising theoretically in some hermitic existence? The things that i and other people do affect me and them both. damn right it's in my interest for other people not to be stupid fuckers. society is you and them and everyone else outside my front door. laws are social philsoophy in action, or did you not notice that abortion is only legal because people argued and fought for it?

that's probably one of the most dumbass things you ever wrote.

notyoueither
18-02-2005, 10:03:24
And you get to decide who is being a stupid fucker, do you? And then society imposes restrictions on what people are saying based on it, hmm?

Don't talk to me about being a dumbass when the horse's hind quarters are parked firmly on your shoulders.

Funkodrom
18-02-2005, 10:05:39
Do you deliberately misinterpret people?

He's only saying that we should be able to tell them they are being stupid fuckers, because stupid fuckers are bad not that they shouldn't be allowed to be stupid fuckers. :beer:

notyoueither
18-02-2005, 10:12:57
That's not what he's fucking saying!

He's clothing his bigotry in nice words about societies interests. Then he mentions laws and he brings in an example of legislation where morality was decided for everyone.

If you want to be a blind, stupid fucker, don't expect me to follow you blindly down the path.

This thread is a hoot. It is a rage against religion which is itself clothed in intolerance.

Oerdin
18-02-2005, 10:25:07
NYE, I can point to one way in which we are better then them. No one here has tried to ban you for disagreeing with the majority. Would they allow that at that Christian site?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
18-02-2005, 10:26:28
Originally posted by notyoueither
Then he mentions laws and he brings in an example of legislation where morality was decided for everyone.


As abortion became mandatory.

The Mad Monk
18-02-2005, 10:28:30
Originally posted by Oerdin
NYE, I can point to one way in which we are better then them. No one here has tried to ban you for disagreeing with the majority. Would they allow that at that Christian site?

That dosen't really apply. This forum accepts most topics, while that one has the specific purpose of addressing only a few.

The Mad Monk
18-02-2005, 10:29:02
Even this forum has limits.

King_Ghidra
18-02-2005, 10:30:10
nye you seem to be arguing from some bizarre position where there are no social conseqences to philosophical or religious arguments.

the very obvious fact is that the laws of the various countries we live in are based on these arguments. otherwise why was homosexuality ever an illegal act?

if i belive something, then surely i must hope that my belief be enshrined in law (where appropriate), whether that be freedom of speech, the right to choose to have an abortion, etc. - this is true for both the religious and non-religious camps

how is it bigoted to argue what you believe? i have very rational reasons for not liking many of the things said by people who have religious beliefs, that is no different from the reasons i have for not liking the things said by people who have racist or sexist beliefs. They are just another category of people i don't agree with.

Society is awash with philosophical conflict, it has to be resolved and fought over and those who lose the argument will be living in a world designed by the winners. That is why we have elections and democracy. Maybe you live in a little cabin in disney world but i am describing the real world in which ignorant people can negatively affect my life.

Oerdin
18-02-2005, 10:35:39
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
That dosen't really apply. This forum accepts most topics, while that one has the specific purpose of addressing only a few.

But even those few topics they are designed to deal with have conformity enforced and breaking with conformity means banning.

notyoueither
19-02-2005, 04:22:01
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
nye you seem to be arguing from some bizarre position where there are no social conseqences to philosophical or religious arguments.

No, I'm just being more bitchy than usual. Sorry to you and Mike for that.

I still don't agree with your opinions about that site though.

notyoueither
19-02-2005, 04:22:59
I think it's my avater. It's taking over.

Japher
19-02-2005, 04:24:00
religious ppl are strange

CG ppl are nbormla

heflp Im tunring into Hon Miler!

notyoueither
19-02-2005, 04:26:26
And I hope you choke on it. :)

The Mad Monk
19-02-2005, 04:54:41
I figure it's hockey withdrawal.

notyoueither
19-02-2005, 07:02:26
That's a good theory. Another is that I'm an abrasive son-of-a-bitch at heart and it bubbles up through the veneer from time to time. Aided greatly by the avatar.

notyoueither
19-02-2005, 07:04:42
Hockey could keep it in check though. Were I able to scream 'KILL 'IM' at the screen, more of my aggressions would be worked out.

MOBIUS
21-02-2005, 00:19:43
Well, we've done religion.

Who wants to talk about politics?:)

The Bursar
21-02-2005, 00:21:03
No, sexual deviation comes after religion.

MOBIUS
21-02-2005, 00:24:07
I thought those were the Catholics?:cute:

zmama
21-02-2005, 00:25:55
Nope CoE

The Bursar
21-02-2005, 00:26:21
Catholics come before and after religion.

MOBIUS
21-02-2005, 00:26:38
Originally posted by zmama
Nope CoE

SeBaStIeN?

The Bursar
21-02-2005, 00:27:15
-tian

MOBIUS
21-02-2005, 00:28:21
Yeah, him!:p

The Bursar
21-02-2005, 00:30:32
Belle CaThOlIc and Sebastian CoE