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View Full Version : Any of you guys teach?


Beta1
25-01-2005, 11:53:29
I'm considering a change in direction, at the moment the only part of my current job that I actually enjoy is the supervision aspects so I'm seriously considering teaching rather than doing.

Provost Harrison
25-01-2005, 11:59:54
Only bad habits ;)

miester gandertak
25-01-2005, 12:04:11
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Only bad habits ;) ?

Funkodrom
25-01-2005, 12:05:43
Originally posted by Beta1
I'm considering a change in direction, at the moment the only part of my current job that I actually enjoy is the supervision aspects so I'm seriously considering teaching rather than doing.

Do it.

Provost Harrison
25-01-2005, 12:11:33
Seriously though, how come you fancy doing this and what is driving you away from your current career? (I will probably understand as I have done similar).

MDA
25-01-2005, 12:19:28
The best part of teaching are the rare times you actually see the light bulb come on.

The bad part: grading papers and the pay cut.

Provost Harrison
25-01-2005, 12:21:09
He's an academic - it's not possible to cut his pay ;)

Funkodrom
25-01-2005, 12:25:59
Yeah, he'd probably get an increase - with the bonus you get for science speciality.

MDA
25-01-2005, 12:25:59
If you don't have a research grant and go 100% teaching, you might.

Funkodrom
25-01-2005, 12:28:06
I thought he meant teaching actual school children...

Provost Harrison
25-01-2005, 12:28:43
Well as a prerequisite they usually expect you to do some kind of observation in a school. This might be handy anyway as it will give you the opportunity to decide whether you want to do the job :b:

MDA
25-01-2005, 12:30:23
Worse, university schoolchildren.

I did OK teaching once I became immune to the premed students complaints.

miester gandertak
25-01-2005, 12:31:38
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe I will teach 17 year old girls hehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Provost Harrison
25-01-2005, 12:33:12
I think he does mean teaching schoolchildren...

King_Ghidra
25-01-2005, 12:35:13
My sister is a teacher. Loves it.

If i could afford to take the salary cut i would seriously consider it.

Provost Harrison
25-01-2005, 12:37:25
Same here. It may be worth looking at the fast track scheme which pays a bit more money for the job and the training, but again it is difficult due to financial reasons...

Beta1
25-01-2005, 14:24:19
I did mean school (although given the choice I would settle for a ex-poly or a 6th form college style place)

Money wise, a cut initially but it would go up again fairly quickly and as funko said science teachers are at a premium. I'm well payed for a postdoc now (~30K but thats only because I'm on a 100% research, welcome trust + bonus points to retain scientists in central london.) Anyway I would have to find another position in a years time and would be almost certain of taking a cut if I stayed in academia as I've topped out on my pay scale already and cant make the junior lecturer grades without another 3-5 years experience (down side of bonus pay is that its efefctively three pay scale points so I just hit the top 3 years too early)

I just cant see myself doing this job in 5 years time and still be (realtively) sane. Its not the work load - I can handle that - its the way no reward comes out of so much work. You can work your arse off for months (years) and get absolutely nowhere and then your career goes down the drain anyway as you dont have the publications. To do that + have to get the funding as well - no thanks. I would like to have some job stability at some point instead of year in year out grant reviews.

Like I said I have to help a lot with the PhD students and the microscope training and that sort of thing is the only real part of the job I enjoy anymore.

Whatever it is I have to get out of this job. I've just been sent another contract for another year... Not sure whether I should sign it or not. I can always give my notice in afterwards I guess. Whatever I will probably keep at this through the summer, maybe bail out in the autumn...

Beta1
25-01-2005, 14:24:48
BTW cheers guys nice to have people to bounce this off.

zmama
25-01-2005, 14:32:49
Teach

Do what will make you happy

Drekkus
25-01-2005, 14:47:37
Don't fp and Dashi teach?

JM^3
25-01-2005, 15:10:26
I am pretty poor at teaching

a few liked me

the plurality disliked me

a few hated me (like that was a statement "I hate Jon Miller")

many were ambivilent

and a fair sized minority thought that I was perpetually drunk/stoned/hungover

Jon Miller

King_Ghidra
25-01-2005, 15:11:25
smart kids

paiktis22
25-01-2005, 15:12:23
i teached once. the girls in the class said i had a so nice voice. :o but i didnt get payed.

i guessteaching takes a bit of patience though.

JM^3
25-01-2005, 15:13:54
it should be a few liked me/thought I was a good teacher

and

the plurality thought I wasd a poor teacher (I don't think there was actual dislike outside of the ones that hated me)

Jon Miller

Dyl Ulenspiegel
25-01-2005, 15:17:04
famous last words

Beta1
25-01-2005, 16:41:06
just locked myself in the microscope darkroom for a bit and did some quick research.

Turns out a new teacher in london starts on around 18-27+ london weighting + theres a variety of incentives that I could qualifiy for (eg fast track status as I have a higher degree in science) that would set the starting point to around 25. I could actually afford that as it wouldnt be that big a cut.

MDA
25-01-2005, 16:47:46
Originally posted by Funkodrom
I thought he meant teaching actual school children...

You thought better than I did.

I really like teaching, but I'm not sure I'd like keeping discipline at a high school level.

Funkodrom
25-01-2005, 16:48:40
Probably a language assumption thing.

Asher
25-01-2005, 16:50:38
Originally posted by paiktis22
i teached once. the girls in the class said i had a so nice voice. :o but i didnt get payed.
I hope you didn't teach English.

King_Ghidra
25-01-2005, 16:54:39
you bitch

paiktis22
25-01-2005, 17:13:00
she is

paiktis22
25-01-2005, 17:14:03
kind of a geeky bitch though which is contradictory

MDA
25-01-2005, 17:52:44
greeky bitch?

fp
25-01-2005, 18:25:56
Originally posted by Drekkus
Don't fp and Dashi teach?

I was an English language teacher in Korea, but I'm not anymore. Dashi is doing the same thing in China. I was teaching kindergarten, though, and IIRC Dashi teaches college students.

My g/f is a trainee teacher, though. Plus a couple of my friends are teachers, so I've heard plenty of stories about the training process. The lectures and stuff you have to attend are a bit of a waste of time, to be honest. Too much theory that bears little relation to the reality of being in a class of rowdy hormonal 14 year olds. Fortunately if you're doing a PGCE you'll spend most of your time on placement. The only way to learn to be a teacher is to just do it, try not to mess up too much and be able to recognise what you're doing wrong and how to correct it. Don't expect much (any) help from your tutors, but if you're lucky you'll get placement's in good schools (=good staff) and it'll be great.

I advise you not to attend Bath Spa uni. The administration of the course is an utter shambles.

Beta1
25-01-2005, 18:50:20
Cheers - I can quite safely say I wasnt thinking about nath spa uni as a possible venue!

Beta1
25-01-2005, 19:22:22
woo, I will have to really get my skates on - in order to go to roehampton (which is about 2 miles from my flat) I would have to apply before the end of march and have to get some in school time before that (although they only require a day visit).

You know, I think this could be a good thing.

HelloKitty
25-01-2005, 20:21:55
Have you taught school age kids before?

Also can you teach in the UK? In the US we have really stupid laws that require certain college programs to be allowed to teach. For example, I have been teaching biochem to college juniors and seniors for almost 3 yearts now as 50% teach/50% research post doc yet legally I would not be allowed to teach general chem to high school students.

In this country a doctor wouldn't be allowed to teach health education to high school or below students unless they went back to school for 2-4 years.

Anyway, you may want to try to see if you can switchoff of 100% research for a year and teach at the Uni something in your field. a 50/50 appointment is not bad. That way you would get a chance to spend some time in a classroom, teach something you are already an expert in, and likely only have 3 hours of lectures to give a week, unless you try to teach a lab, but usually grad students get stuck doing that. If after doing that you really like teaching, next year go for a full time teaching job. Pre uni school teaching is a major time commitment and should not be taken lightly.

Personally, I like teaching. The worst parts are, as have been mentioned in this thread, the grading AND ASSHOLE PREMED STUDENTS. If you get control over assignemnts and grading, make sure the load is easy on you.

JM^3
25-01-2005, 20:26:24
its because half of what you do for those below college is childcare

Jon Miller
(and the education union has a stranglehold on US policy)

JM^3
25-01-2005, 20:27:16
I owul dlike to second the curses on premed students

engineering students are about as bad

JM

Beta1
25-01-2005, 21:37:32
whatever I have to get out of the lab this year - I'm beginning to turn into my boss and thats not a good thing.

Re qualifications - I would have to do a conversion course if I wanted to teach in the state sector. Its not that tough, its one year (well one academic so its actually only 9-10 months) and they pay you to do it, not much but if I can get onto the fast-track scheme then they would pay about 15K for me to do it + pay the course fees. I havnt taught school age but I have done some stuff with A level age and first year undergrads. I'm planning on talking to the open school program people tomorrow which should let me sit in on a few days teaching first. Bizarrely in this country its pretty hard to teach anything at uni if your not lecturer level (you can do supervision type stuff)

am going to try and get a couple of days in school + a couple of recruitment type meetings in befor I have to decide about applying, even after that I want to try and talk to my old teacher at my school. See if I can get a week or so in there.

sleeping_satsuma
25-01-2005, 22:33:44
fast track teachers get sent to the toughest most horrible schools in the country. You have to be nails- think behavioural disorders, high crime rates, high truancy, no discipline and add in over 50% of the pupils don't speak English as their first language if they speak it at all. You also get switched to a diff school like every 6 months.
It depends what you want to teach, but secondary is massively over subscribed- they advertise loads but they havent increased teaching posts or training subscriptions. Loads of people are taking the course and then finding they cant get a job (thats what they dont tell you in the adverts). Primary is even worse although they are desperate for male teachers. Most teachers complain that they are swamped with new initiatives, a ridiculous and demoralising workload that they have to take home, and little gratitude.

I applied for teacher training twice after Uni. I have a 2.1 in English (a shortage subject apparently) which i wanted to teach at secondary level, had done work experience in primary and secondary schools, did tutoring with 3 different secondary age groups for two years, wrote a gorgeous statement, knew loads about government policy, applied to red brick and ex polys, and I couldnt get an interview even through clearing!

After that I thought, fuck it. And looking back I'm glad. I think
teachers are treated shabbily in this country and they have no real status any more.

I think Uni teaching might be fun though- you know they are there because they want to be, and they're doing the subject they like. Plus you get to fuck the ones you fancy :)

Provost Harrison
25-01-2005, 23:56:54
Originally posted by Beta1
woo, I will have to really get my skates on - in order to go to roehampton (which is about 2 miles from my flat) I would have to apply before the end of march and have to get some in school time before that (although they only require a day visit).

You know, I think this could be a good thing.

Quicker than that, you have until the end of January for Fasttrack :eek:

Provost Harrison
26-01-2005, 00:12:49
That is quite interesting piece of information sleeping_satsuma.

Now beta1 I can completely understand your sentiments about academia - I found that after 2 years of a PhD I just couldn't stand any more. All the politics, being shunted around (for significant proportions of time I didn't even have a proper laboratory to work in, if anything). My supervisor left after the first year there and I felt in the wilderness after this. I hardly worked, frequently took time off. I thought, as well did others, that I was just lazy. In fact I was demoralised, academia just wasn't for me, and that goes back as far as university (hence my inability to motivate and my getting a 2:2 despite my ability).

I've learnt a lot about myself since then - 7 months of employment is plenty of time to soulsearch and my subsequent jobs have been bloody hard work and stressful but even despite this, I am happier than in an academic environment and I can say that without any hesitation. It has taken me a long time to recover from that and the aftereffects. I am still in the sciences, surprisingly a sideways switch to an analytical chemist in a pharmaceutical company. The unemployment almost drove me insane, it exacerbated my depression which resulted in me being on Prozac for some time until recently where things are going well enough. But I still don't feel out of the woods. I am well paid by the sectors standards (24k a year) but I do work shifts and I have a heavy workload. My friends who I graduated with all earn a lot more money than I do too.

So Beta1 I would advise you to follow your hunch on this one. Get out of research and get out of science - the number of younger people keen on the sciences I have told this to. Do the degree and move on. In my 5.75 years since graduate I have still not secured a permanent job.

I know it sounds like I am having a whinge but it is the facts of the matter. I still am not sure where I am headed or where I am going to end up. I don't suppose this is unique.

alsieboo
26-01-2005, 00:14:00
good luck! :) :bounce:

sleeping_satsuma
26-01-2005, 00:46:18
I think the problem Provost is that people are pushed through Uni like cattle in this country, being only 18 when asked to decide which direction they want their life to go in, so I imagine lots of people feel like fish out of water in academia. Its also highly demoralising when you realise that your qualification means bugger all in the real world because nearly everyone has one now.

Degrees are the new A-level.

DaShi
26-01-2005, 02:37:18
Originally posted by Drekkus
Don't fp and Dashi teach?

:lol: I don't consider my job teaching. Not anymore, at least.

Beta1
26-01-2005, 08:49:19
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Quicker than that, you have until the end of January for Fasttrack :eek:

yeah i saw that, its no biggy though. As satsuma pointed out fasttrack isnt all bells and roses although the extra cash would be nice. Not sure I quite qualify as "nails" but I'm certainly no pushover! You can always join fast track once you get QTS anyway.

Funkodrom
26-01-2005, 09:06:41
Beta'd be doing science teaching though presumably - AFAIK that's not massively oversubscribed. Problem is they are training shitloads of teachers but not getting the teachers for the right specialties where they are lacking.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
26-01-2005, 09:27:38
Originally posted by Beta1
Bizarrely in this country its pretty hard to teach anything at uni if your not lecturer level (you can do supervision type stuff)


What would it take for you to get to lecturer level?

Beta1
26-01-2005, 10:10:08
funko - thats how it seems, had a quick run through some teacher recruitment sites. around 50% of the jobs were for science.

"Beta'd"? sounds rather odd.

Dyl - realistically at least another 3 years of post-doc research and probably about another 4-5 first author papers, then find a position (hard) and a career development grant (harder) both would have to be in the correct speciality and within working range of a possible hospital that runs a large immunology unit that my other half could work at.

Even then I dont really like the job I'm doing now any more. if I reached that level i would have to do this job+ teach+fundraise at the same time. As it is I dont have the time I want to spend with my family. I've seen what that sort of position does to people and their relationships and while I would like to do the teaching side of it I'm not prepared to comprimise my relationship to do it.

also its like provosts job situation - even if you get that far you can lose the lot in one grant review. If I wanted that sort of stability I would have gone into the city and at least be paid well for it.

MDA
26-01-2005, 12:33:15
I got out for similar reasons - quality of life became a big issue in grad school. Neither one of us was keen on spending more time in the lab than we did with each other.

King_Ghidra
26-01-2005, 12:34:12
ha! call yourselves scientists!

MDA
26-01-2005, 12:58:18
Bah. :) I'm happy and employed.

The job I have now has more direct effects on public well-being than that crap shoot I was involved in before. Teaching is probably even better in that respect, because you're face to face with the people you're helping.

fp
26-01-2005, 13:00:41
Originally posted by Beta1
funko - thats how it seems, had a quick run through some teacher recruitment sites. around 50% of the jobs were for science.


Indeed that is the case. My g/f does science, it's a shortage subject and there are plenty of jobs around.

Provost Harrison
26-01-2005, 13:21:24
Yeah, as you can probably tell I have done a bit of investigating this option too and certainly haven't written it off, so I am interested in any information anyone gives too. But if this request for a pay rise doesn't come off I am very likely to reinvestigate this option once more...

Funkodrom
26-01-2005, 13:23:46
Originally posted by fp
Indeed that is the case. My g/f does science, it's a shortage subject and there are plenty of jobs around.

Satsuma probably just knows loads of arts graduates. :D

Beta1
26-01-2005, 14:48:43
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, as you can probably tell I have done a bit of investigating this option too and certainly haven't written it off, so I am interested in any information anyone gives too. But if this request for a pay rise doesn't come off I am very likely to reinvestigate this option once more...

In that case get your arse down to county hall on the 4-5th feb. Theres a big seminar thingy.

Spoke to the helpline this morning, suprisingly well organised. Should have a call from a career advisor another from a "teaching advocate" and they are trying to setup a visit to a nearby school to shadow a teacher for a day. They did want me to go to one in harrow but I pushed for one closer to the center - I would rather see what its like at the front line first rather than a high acheiving girls school in harrow.

good luck for the pay rise

MOBIUS
26-01-2005, 17:57:09
Originally posted by Beta1
I would rather see what its like at the front line first rather than a high acheiving girls school in harrow.

Oh I don't know - how are their 'O' Level grades?

Err, that joke is a bit out of date...:cute:

MDA
26-01-2005, 18:07:55
I'm thinking about taking that new chick from Logistics. If things go right I might be showing her my O-face.

PH'd?

sleeping_satsuma
26-01-2005, 23:48:25
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Satsuma probably just knows loads of arts graduates. :D

pas de tout!

I was talking in general terms- its not quite the rosy picture the government adverts would have you believe.

sleeping_satsuma
26-01-2005, 23:49:49
Originally posted by Beta1
They did want me to go to one in harrow but I pushed for one closer to the center - I would rather see what its like at the front line first rather than a high acheiving girls school in harrow.


Brace yourself.

Funkodrom
27-01-2005, 09:47:54
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
pas de tout!

I was talking in general terms- its not quite the rosy picture the government adverts would have you believe.


REALLY?!!?

Next you'll be telling me that in the Army it's not all about having a laugh in big armoured vehicles and learning new technical skills!!!

Beta1
27-01-2005, 10:38:52
its not? dam cross regimental sergeant major of the possible careers list then.

Beta1
27-01-2005, 10:40:08
another idea i had was to go into optometry - it sounds fun, a good career (assuming everyone hasnt had laser eye surgery in the next 12 months) and I already run two microscopes so there got to be some overlapping skills there.

Provost Harrison
27-01-2005, 12:21:17
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
pas de tout!

I was talking in general terms- its not quite the rosy picture the government adverts would have you believe.

Undoubtedly but nor do I have my eyes close. My mother is a teaching assistant, and not at a good school either so I get to hear all the horror stories as well as the good ones. The fact is no job is perfect, not by a long shot. But nor have I ever been one to take the easy option.

Provost Harrison
27-01-2005, 12:21:58
We were considering fitting banks of oars to the side of the lab just for that authentic slave galley feel :D

Beta1
27-01-2005, 14:06:43
Nice touch, we just do the old ball and chain thing