PDA

View Full Version : Everquest 2 and World of Warcraft.


HelloKitty
07-11-2004, 08:53:54
Anyone playing either. I beta tested both.

EQ2 comes out on Tuesday, WOW on the 22nd.

I will be playing on the 4th server alphabetically in EQ2 and will be in the gay guild "rainbow warriors" (fucking gay boys picked the man whore name).


Anyone got any questions about either game? They are both good, I prefer EQ2 though.

JM^3
07-11-2004, 10:46:52
I keep thinking about EQ2

hmm

Jm

HelloKitty
07-11-2004, 11:19:49
Its fun, but you risk losing your life and becoming addicted and a servent of the devil.

Shining1
07-11-2004, 12:37:06
I preordered the WoW special edition today... :/

fp
07-11-2004, 12:39:51
Will it come with "Designer's Notes" and a metal tin?

JM^3
07-11-2004, 18:27:29
that already happened with AO

JKM

HelloKitty
07-11-2004, 19:09:34
Originally posted by Shining1
I preordered the WoW special edition today... :/

Are you playing the open beta/stress test.

Shining1
07-11-2004, 23:47:53
No, I figured there's no need. I'm invested already, it's more fun just to bust the pack and play it when it arrives, and it saves me a hefty (2gig?) download over dialup.

(Yeah, we're getting DSL sometime next month. Until then I'll just avoid serious PvP... =) )

Toad: You get a CD of the game music, a 200 page art book, an 'exclusive in game pet' (which sounds cute), a manual with the dev's signatures embossed on the back (they don't really sign it), and ideally some posters or other little stuff. And it gets to sit next to my WarcraftIII collectors edition box. =)

HelloKitty
08-11-2004, 01:10:54
Dialup doesn't matter. They have used bittorrent for all thier stuff throughout beta lol. Say hello to 3 day download.

I think they are having fileplanet take over now but the current stress test you have to pay to join fileplanet to play in. We will see what they do for the week or two of open beta.

Will Austraila/NZ players be forced to the Chinese or Korean server? Since WOW won't let you play outside of your region.

HelloKitty
08-11-2004, 01:47:28
Well from what blizzard has said there will be N American, Chinese, Korean, and Europoean servers and what server you are allowed to play on is based on your payment method, IP address, and mailing address.

i.e. European players can never play with noneuropeans. N americans can never play with Europeans or Asians, etc. ALthought hey are not forcing West coast/east coast on N America.

As for Australia/New Zealand, the last thing they said was they are looking at making a Middle east/Aussie server for you all.

Darkstar
08-11-2004, 21:44:21
A Middle East and Ozzie server? That just sounds so weird!

lightblue
09-11-2004, 12:33:13
I've played some WoW EU closed beta, and am now in the US open beta (after my EU account got sold for £200 or so, by the guy who owned it). It's quite fun, not sure about the longevity though as levelling is very very fast (1day played to lvl20 on my first char).

Been thinking about EQ2 as well to tide me over to WoW EU release as DAoC has finally started to bore me, but the total lack of pvp slightly puts me off. Might give it a go to be nice for awhile though after 2yrs+ on a DAoC FFA PvP server.

Shining1
10-11-2004, 00:20:59
Kitty: They started off with NZ/Australia in Kalimdor for War3/Diablo2, I think. Can't remember exactly which one. Which was a bit hilarious and more than a bit irritating since the rout from New Zealand to Korea goes via America. So for our convience we were being directed to an overloaded server that required data to cross the pacific ocean twice.

Everything currently up has Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the U.S.A running off the same servers.

I'm not sure if the idea of an Aussie/Middle East server is some kind of bizarre joke on your part or others, but I doubt it's going to happen. Kiwis and Aussies LIKE the U.S.A servers, and it works well going the other way, since it gives those servers someone on during early morning in America.

HelloKitty
10-11-2004, 01:11:52
No, its not a joke at all. They will have forced servers. The WOW forums are acting goofy right now but you can try to click here

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=385040&p=1&tmp=1#post385040

Here is the ign server FAQ.

http://wowvault.ign.com/faq/index.php?category=29#29_4

Kiwis and Aussies LIKE the U.S.A servers, and it works well going the other way, since it gives those servers someone on during early morning in America.

I know, thats why its such a bad idea. But the fact is WOW is having forced regional servers. You will not be able to play with people in europe, you will most likely be lumped into an Aus/NZ only server or one of the China/Korea servers. No Eupropeans, no americans, no asians, no aussies mixing.

Shining1
10-11-2004, 02:13:22
Thanks for the heads up.

It sounds like New Zealand and Aussie will be part of America for the Nov 23 launch though... if there are only two U.S servers, it's unlikely there'll be an Australian server up right on release.

Having said that, and while it's okay that I'm okay (so it seems), it's not hard to feel really bad for everyone else everywhere else in the world. Especially those in Britian who should be in the American launch anyway and anyone in Korea/Japan who wants to play on the U.S servers.

I didn't feel like reading another 28 pages of people saying the same thing about how stupid this is. But holy fucking shit. This is not the sort of thing I expect from Blizzard. And to state it in such an incredibly wrong, patronising way... *gosh* I hope it's Vivendi's fault.

HelloKitty
10-11-2004, 07:32:14
There will be 15-20 US servers at launch. Its just they will only be in 2 locations.

Mightytree
10-11-2004, 15:06:57
Having said that, and while it's okay that I'm okay (so it seems), it's not hard to feel really bad for everyone else everywhere else in the world. Especially those in Britian who should be in the American launch anyway and anyone in Korea/Japan who wants to play on the U.S servers.

Especially those in Britain? :hmm:

Anyway ...

Yep, it makes a potential customer like me feel really appreciated. I've played D2 and NWN to death and am really looking hard for a new online game. So I'd really love to try out WoW, but Blizzard's not gonna see a cent of my money when the game gets released here because of that crap. Unbelievable. :shoot:

That really gives me no choice but go out and buy EQ2, although I fully expect SOE to virtually kick me in my balls twice as hard as Blizzard. The only 4 characters per account thing really blows. :(

HelloKitty
10-11-2004, 16:15:46
Yeah, SOE and Blizzard both released big bombshells at teh same time. The forced servers for WOW and 4 toons per account for EQ2.

I do have to say though, EQ2 release has gone like a dream. only 1 server down at all in the first 2 days.

Shining1
11-11-2004, 05:15:59
MT, if I wanted a game which featured a whole lot of people whining at each other in german, I'd post on CG a lot more... :cute:

Mightytree
11-11-2004, 14:46:12
Will you at least tell me you're especially sorry for me too, Ned? After all I speak better English than 90% of all Americans. :D

Shining1
11-11-2004, 22:31:47
Sorry for the joke MT. It would be a fucking blast to play WoW with you and Karsten and whoever else from CG. =)

Mightytree
11-11-2004, 23:08:41
Oh, I wasn't really angry because of that joke, Ned ... :)

It's just that I'm really getting sick of being treated like a 3rd class customer just because I'm not from the US. We didn't get a proper Beta here in Europe, we're not getting the game at the same time and when we do we can't even play it with the other guys. It's like we're living in a ghetto. I wonder if Blizzard really understand what especially the third thing does for guilds with members all over the world (like TheAmazonBasin from D2 for example). WoW is supposed to be one of the biggest and best MMORPGs, but you can't play together with your clan mates if you're not from the same country? Totally ridiculous. Basically all my online gaming friends from D2 or NWN are Americans too. Tough luck for me, right?

I know that there are people that are going through the hassle of having someone from the US paying the game for them and then paying them back through some means (don't really know if that even works ... what if they check IPs also?). But there are even more people that aren't going to buy the game because of that. They're either switching to EQ2 or Guild Wars. Guild Wars reminded me too much of Dungeon Siege when I played in the last two World Events, so I went and bought EQ2 yesterday. At least I know SOE is treating everybody like shit and not only Euros.

zmama
11-11-2004, 23:17:20
If you want to try the hassle though...I'll do that for you MT.

Mightytree
11-11-2004, 23:54:16
Originally posted by zmama
If you want to try the hassle though...I'll do that for you MT.

Thanks. :)

Four problems ...

- I don't know if I can afford to pay two MMORPGs at the same time, especially since ...

- I probably don't have time for two MMORPGs at the moment.

- As I said, I don't even know if that method even works. I'll have to wait till WoW is released and get confirmation from some people.

- I don't really know if I really want to play WoW at all, considering what Blizzard's done. It does look great, but if I get deeply involved with EQ2 I may forget about it quickly anyway.

So in case all of concerns prove to be weak, I'll get back to you. :)

HelloKitty
12-11-2004, 02:12:42
You can't buy US games and use them to get on the server unless you use a US address forever and only use US game cards.

If you use your address, or a credit card or a game card bought in another courty you get blocked.

Shining1
12-11-2004, 11:16:04
MT: Blame the lawyers, flat out.

The Magic designers at Wizards of the Coast are running a promotion called 'You make the card (3)', wherein the players make card suggestions to the website and a tournament legal card is put together based on the suggestions and the votes.

Wizards is doing it differently this time round, accepting art submissions for the card as the first part of the process. The legal team at WotC refuses flat out to deal with any overseas art submissions, however.

It's not a fun thing for a company to suddenly go international and have to deal with laws in 60 different countries all of a sudden, I'm sure. At the same time, while Blizzard isn't equipped for this, they should NOT be lying about the reasons for it in the guise of 'lag and performance' issues.

HelloKitty
12-11-2004, 18:55:26
I'm not sure what Blizzard's reasons are.

I do know they have made other bad communitty decisions though.

For example friends who play have to play on the same side. I can understand why they shouldn't be allowed to guild or group together, but blizzard made it so you can't even send private messages to friends. You can't contact them in any way at all.

This again makes it hard for friends and guilds to play. You want to play an and your friend wants to play an orc? Better get out of game team speak to chat because you can never interact.

Combine this with the fact that there is no reason to group at all, since you can get equivilent gear solo as a group, and you earn the same or less exp per hour in a group as solo and you end up with a game of soloers and a few groups that want to do some instanced dungeons.

People critizise games like EQ1 and FFXI for forced grouping, but it also forces people to interact and not just have a persistant single player world.

EQ2 has soloing from lvl 1-50. But if you want the best gear, if you want the fastest exp, if you want to do the hard quests, you need to group.

Shining1
12-11-2004, 22:04:29
Yeah that's a bit nuts too. Especially as a lot of the people I've met online playing aren't particularly interested in swapping ICQs and/or emails, etc. It would at least be nice to be able to ping someone ingame so they can switch factions and team up with you.

The soloing thing is an impossible arguement either way it seems. My CoH experience of playing a scrapper is getting 'pestered' by controllers and defenders for teams. If they have some kind of endurance boost, it's worth it for the lack of downtime, if not, there's virtually no point to the exercise.

As against that, WoW sounds like it will be ALL be about the itamz. Soloing for XP isn't going to be a major concern when getting level 60 is something that takes 2 months hardcore play. So groups will be about raiding, especially PvP raids which are what the core of the game is really about to me.

In such an environment, having to beg for teams so you can level becomes a huge negative when every week big burly Orcs are smashing down your door and all you own is a rusty butterknife and a pink frilly frock.

Shining1
12-11-2004, 22:08:08
I guess I should add that I'm always more than happy to team with SG members or random controllers in need of leveling, but it always feels like charity done because I'm a nice player instead of something I actively want to seek out because it would be an advantage.

So no, I don't like the idea of forcing teams through archtype design any more than I like the idea of mass soloing. EQ2 sounds like a good start on this, but it's a very different game by the sounds of it.

JM^3
12-11-2004, 22:24:55
when I played blasters were by far the best

did they change ballance?

controllers still had to group though (I was a controller)

Jon Miller

Shining1
13-11-2004, 00:12:47
They've changed Smoke Grenade so that it doesn't debuff a mobs accuracy by 100%. So Blasters are less perfect but still very good.

Regen and Invul scrappers seem to be the current uber builds (for joy!), with Super Reflexes not far behind. Instant Healing/Invincibility/Elude let you stand against purple bosses with little risk of dying, and the mez protections scrappers have mean you usually aren't at risk from bosses like Rikti Chief Mentalists.

If you want to power level to 50, a Fire Blaster is still probably your best bet. If you want to look uber and invincible in a group, a scrapper is better though.

Mightytree
13-11-2004, 00:39:42
People critizise games like EQ1 and FFXI for forced grouping, but it also forces people to interact and not just have a persistant single player world.

Exactly.

Today was the first time I could play EQ2 for an extended amount of time and what Kitty says is actually the first thing that really stood out to me (besides the awesome graphics). In EQ2 you can solo somewhat, but lots of times you'll have to group if you want to get on. Apparently if you have to rely on other people once in a while, this brings out the best in people. I haven't met a single person today that I didn't like. That will probably be the other way around in WoW, since the community will mainly come from D2.

HelloKitty
13-11-2004, 05:20:15
As against that, WoW sounds like it will be ALL be about the itamz. Soloing for XP isn't going to be a major concern when getting level 60 is something that takes 2 months hardcore play.

I know 3 people who have done it in less than 6 days played.

Most hardcore players are maxxing in less than 3 weeks.

JM^3
13-11-2004, 23:18:48
well

I just bought EQ2

hopefully it is good

Jon Miler

Mightytree
21-11-2004, 00:52:04
So which server(s) are you two playing on?

I've got a level 15 Ratonga Predator and a level 13 Erudite Summoner, both on Everfrost.

HelloKitty
21-11-2004, 11:05:04
The gay guilds server.

Crushbone.

Also have a lower level on Mistmoore.

Shining1
22-11-2004, 23:41:10
I still think people are missing the point to WoW's max level.

Playing CoH, and having hit the level 35+ slowdown, grinding for levels is just fucking dull. It's not even terribly impressive to have a level 50 character, simply because it doesn't say anything except you have the will to sit and perform a repetitive action for 200-1000 hours.

From the Diablo2 experience, the only things that mattered about a character were:

* Skill tree choices - getting the right build so you are an uber l90 sorc instead of a chump.

* |T@MZZZ!!11!!!!!onehundredandeleven!!1! Which will involve the hard work of crafting and raiding, starting when you get to level 60.

* Hardcore high levels. Levels only mean something when you only get one chance.

* Speed of leveling. Hard to prove, but it's a valid brag that you got to level 72 in 12 hours play.


City of Heroes, as everyone keeps pointing out, suffers a lot at the end because there is nothing to achieve once you hit the level cap. The test of any MMO is what content is available to keep you playing once you do.

JM^3
23-11-2004, 00:54:24
I am on the Lucan server

I have a 13 level shaman

Jon Miller

JM^3
23-11-2004, 00:55:19
I actually like fast leveling, because I don't want to play all that much

Jon Miller

Mightytree
24-11-2004, 01:16:47
So how's WoW, Ned? I heard there are lines like in D2 when you're trying to log in to a server ... :D

Shining1
24-11-2004, 07:15:21
Yep. And it's a bit laggy... :D

Graphically I haven't seen anything to rip my nuts either. My initial thoughts when I saw the beta being played were 'is this Dungeon Siege 2' and that's still about right. Animation-wise, the game is pretty much up to scratch, and after City of heroes, it's very nice to fight non-humanoid foes for a change.

The questing system is just fabulous, and the game is generally very well paced, even though the noob areas are of course filled to bursting with new characters. So far I've only played the Night Elf intro bits (Rach and I are level 8 or so). A *very* good sign so far is that leveling up has been more or less incidental to exploring and doing quests, with very little active XP seeking (only one bit at the end of level 5 when I had only a bar or two to go).

The red bar is a very nice innovation too. Should have ordered DSL last week... :/

Other than that it's hard to say. The world IS warcraft. The Dryads say 'Hi!' And I've seen *nothing* so far.

Mightytree
24-11-2004, 12:45:42
How's the community? Are there lots of l33t kids running around like in D2?

lightblue
24-11-2004, 13:13:48
Battlenet kiddies typically don't have a credit card, or be willing to shell out $15 a month for a game where they can't dupe and cheat their way to the top.

Shining1
24-11-2004, 22:08:35
In the interests of fair and unbiased reporting, I should add that the reason I was able to make that post was because the entire west coast server line suffered a massive, ongoing lag spike and had to be taken down. Net lost time one and a half hours or so.

Then we got back on and played till 4am.

The community seems great so far. I haven't had to interact with anyone else pretty much so far, but aside from a couple of incidences of DEFINITEL B.net kiddies chatting in general, there's been nothing to offend me at all. Certainly, all MMOs get lazy noobs who can't be bothered running around to find Iverrson... :/

I might try hawking some of my spare healing potions today having finally been shown by Rach how to work my herbalism/alchemy stuff. That should be an interesting test of people's responses.

And to be fair, B.net was never totally about l33+ 15 year old haxors. In amounst all the chaf were some really extraordinary good, wise, witty people. lightblue might be right, the setup costs might help cut some of the chaff out.

Shining1
25-11-2004, 03:21:19
Okay, everything is now all lagged to hell, I can't pick up items without getting the loot bug and not being able to do anything for 6 minutes, and if this generally carrys on for another week or so I might change my avatar.

lightblue
25-11-2004, 11:44:25
It was like that in US beta occasionally. I think I'll wait till EU release when they've hopefully optimised their item servers.

Best way of selling stuff i found was either auction house or Ironforge/Stormwind (or Thunderbluff/Ogrimmar if you're Horde I guess) trade channels. You get more cash for selling stuff in Trade i found, armor that'd sell for 75s or in auction would go for 1g+ in trade if you got a few people bidding against eachother.

HelloKitty
26-11-2004, 00:29:10
At least they are solving the lag with 30+ minute ques to log onto the busy servers. Much easier than fixing the problem.

Shining1
26-11-2004, 13:20:38
Lag problem seems solved. Leastways, there's actual, second-longer-than-normal lag on the odd occasion, which barely matters in a MMO (as compared to an FPS or RTS).

This is possibly the best game ever made.

lightblue
26-11-2004, 13:32:57
That's how i felt about it, it's jsut running around with your mouth hanging open at how polished and fun everything is (after years of DAoC). It's more polished and balanced now than DAoC is after 3yrs of release.

HelloKitty
28-11-2004, 21:09:07
Originally posted by HelloKitty
I know 3 people who have done it in less than 6 days played.

Most hardcore players are maxxing in less than 3 weeks.

All 3 of those people are in thier mid 40s now. 5 days after release even with the downtime/crashes/lag of the first few days.

HelloKitty
30-11-2004, 17:26:22
How those daily server down times feeling?

Nice of them to give Aussies a forced 2 hour break every night during prime play time every day.

paiktis22
30-11-2004, 21:36:05
An acquintance of mine recently got everquest 2 and he's more lost in space than usual.

Shining1
30-11-2004, 22:18:07
No they fixed that now. Pacific downtime is now 7:00-8:00AM Pacific time. Makes it about 4:00AM here.

Darkstar
02-12-2004, 21:07:29
Humm... came across this at GameSpot:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/01/news_6114281.html

Blizzard's MMORPG becomes the fastest-selling PC game ever, selling 240,000 copies in 24 hours; total now tops 350,000 units.

Blizzard says... "Wow! We knew it was going to be a big hit, but we didn't think it would be this huge. No one knew or even suspected! Not so quickly! So, we are effectively stopping sales of WoW, until we can get enough servers online so even we don't swear about signing in to check on things. Then, out go more units!"

Shining1
02-12-2004, 22:43:04
It does put a bit of a slant on the many forum posts complaining about lag and server issues and saying that 'Blizzard should have anticipated the demand.' :D

HelloKitty
03-12-2004, 01:45:23
How many servers do they have now?

lightblue
03-12-2004, 12:55:34
72 I think. There have also been 330000 pre-orders in the EU, so there talking 90+ servers when EU release comes around. It's an amazing amount of people, DAoC at it's height had a 150k-200k accounts worldwide, and simultaneous logins of 40-45k. WoW has simultaneous logins already worldwide of 100k+.

Shining1
03-12-2004, 22:34:51
I thought 100K+ was their peak number so far, not the average.

Statesman's got his breakthrough hit though. =)

Mightytree
03-12-2004, 23:09:39
I posted this on a D2 forum today ...

Well, im officially back to FFXI and EQ2 is on the back shelf until I can afford to buy myself a new computer. EQ2 seems to me to be way too memory intensive and the load times are horrendous. I personally think this is EQ2's biggest failing because I get horrible performance degredation after zoning into different areas about five times and the load times can take up to four minutes between zones! When I compare that to FFXI, I am absolutely stunned because the loading time between zones in FFXI on the same computer is about five or six SECONDS.

I have a pretty decent PC (2.6GHz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9800Pro) and I totally have to agree with what Zek said. Performance-wise EQ2 is absolutely horrible. I have to reboot my machine a lot, because if you have EQ2 running for an extended amount of time (2-3 hours) it really slows down to a crawl. I've hardly ever seen a game that's such a memory hog. Switching between zones doesn't take 4 minutes for me, but it's still so long that it's really annoying (especially since you actually do have to zone a lot).

And there are more problems. The thing that by far annoys me the most is that levelling up in this game is simply really, really tedious. Now, I had no problem with levelling-up becoming tedious in D2 after about level 80. On the contrary. What I really liked about D2C was that reaching 99 (especially in HC) was impossible. The problem with EQ2 is that longwinded levelling isn't only a thing of the end-game like in D2, but it already starts at about level 10-15. Combine that with the fact that grouping up is almost forced (yes, you can solo, but it ultimately doesn't pay off and it's also boring as hell) and that you get experience penalties when group members die and it's guaranteed that you get frustrated a lot. If you want someone to keep playing a game for an extended amount of time, you have to give him little rewards once in a while to make him come back for more. EQ2 does that really, really badly or not at all. Loot is extremely sparse and it also gets lotto-ed to a random player when you're grouped.

Now, don't get me wrong. EQ2 is a decent game, but it just doesn't seem to grab me. I still play EQ2 daily for at least 4-5 hours, but I can already tell now that I won't stick with it for a long time. It simply demands too much patience from the player for my taste. The free first month is over on the 10th and I'm not sure yet if I should cancel the subscription or not. When I said earlier in this thread ...


So yes, I'd love to play WoW with you, Adam. Unfortunately it's not gonna happen. Blizzard isn't getting a cent of my money.


... I lied. I had a weak moment and ordered the US version of WoW yesterday (yes, I've got someone from the US who's paying the game for me) so that I can try it out for a month too. After that month I'll decide what to cancel. My gut feeling tells me that it'll be EQ2, since I've only heard good things about the gameplay of WoW so far.

So I hope to see some of you in-game sometime in the next couple of weeks.

See you in-game too, Ned. ;)

nichtsieauchnicht
04-12-2004, 10:11:39
Dieses ist ein Stoß des allgemeinen Services.

notyoueither
04-12-2004, 10:11:41
Is this worth bumping?

Darkstar
04-12-2004, 10:35:36
Is anything? ;)

zmama
04-12-2004, 10:38:35
uglies

Darkstar
04-12-2004, 10:42:36
Good point, ZMama.

HelloKitty
04-12-2004, 11:22:17
Originally posted by lightblue
72 I think. There have also been 330000 pre-orders in the EU, so there talking 90+ servers when EU release comes around. It's an amazing amount of people, DAoC at it's height had a 150k-200k accounts worldwide, and simultaneous logins of 40-45k. WoW has simultaneous logins already worldwide of 100k+.

They have 72 servers? Meaning they have less than 5k players per server.

How the hell are they having any lag at all?

lightblue
04-12-2004, 14:33:54
It's a different kind of lag than tyical i think. One thing to keep in mind is that every continent is one continuous zone aside from a few instanced dungeons. EQ2 has every zone instanced with lots of load times in between. The main lag when I played was item lag, nothing was wrong as long as you didn't change your inventory at all. Fighting etc went smooth, but looting a corpse could take minutes. I think the item servers are spearate from the world servers, and possibly shared between different world servers.

HelloKitty
05-12-2004, 00:46:02
Ah, then they made the database the SWG way and tried to compensate with very small server populations.

Ouch.

Shining1
05-12-2004, 08:11:21
Yeah, it's database/design lag, nothing to do with bandwidth.

Darkstar
06-12-2004, 21:41:13
found at:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/02/news_6114348.html

WoW is handing out a few extra (free) days to early adopters... between 2 to 4 whole extra days, to make up for the long queueing to sign in.

Mightytree
06-12-2004, 22:48:00
I found this post on another forum. I think for all of those who've grown to dislike EQ2 in the first month of playing this is a delight to read ... :D

Hi. =)

I don't think anyone was initially more excited about EQ2 than I was. I got my dad to upgrade one of our 'puters fully three months earlier than he'd planned, just so we could run it smoothly. I drooled over every new EQ2 screenshot and video which was released. To analogize, it's like EQ2 was a boy I'd yet to meet but whom I'd already decided to marry, have umpteen kids with, and live happily ever after. Yet barely a week after I bought the game on the morning of November 9th, I quit playing. Gladly. I was not having fun, I was having frustration. I did not look forward to logging on, I looked forward to logging OUT. :/

I swear it'd take me forever to list all the reasons why I grew to not just hate EQ2, but to LOATHE it, but here's some highlights:

(1) SHARED EXPERIENCE DEBT

Oh, please. Making each and every player responsible for the actions of every n00b, tard, LD, AFK, indifferent or sloppy player in the universe has got to be the stupidest idea since New Coke. :/

I spent almost the entire time I was in EQ2 buried up to my eyeballs in “xp debt“ due to other peep's idiocy. And it was standard procedure for the peeps--the group--who buried you in XP debt to immediately disband afterwards and leave you stuck soloing 89432894189 blue-con mobs to try and work your way out of debt again.
Shared xp debt = MMORPG socialism. I don't like socialism, in any form. So needless to say, shared XP debt was the beginning of the end of my brief love affair with EQ2. For further amusement, I even tried picturing Darkfury's (the DAOC player, over at “Fusion“) reaction to being saddled with hours of xp debt due to poor playing habits on the part of his groupmates. <reaches for her earplugs> Hilarious. I can actually sympathize with DF on something ...

(2) COMBAT SYSTEM

EQ2's combat system was clumsy, stifling, boring, and buggy. What I wouldn't have given for a /stick key, a /face key, and a host of other DAOC features which I no longer take for granted. Targeting the correct monsters whenever there were multiples on the screen proved to be a nightmare for me. If you chose the Autoface option you had absolutely NO freedom of movement during combat to speak of. It was as if your characters feet were mired in molasses, or maybe she was tethered to a wooden stake anchored into the ground via an ankle-bracelet. If you turned off Autoface you could move around a little better but then you spent half or more of your time during combat looking like a moron because every melee “style“ or spell you tried failed because the game claimed you were somehow “not facing your target.“ I got frustrated almost to tears over constantly being told I wasn't facing my target even though I was positioned within kissing distance directly in front of it. GAAAAH! Where's my therapist and a giant sized bottle of Mydol?... :/
Worse, if for any reason you or your groupmates decided to run from a fight (and I saw a LOT of that, there were no shortage of cowards and blind panickers in EQ2), you were locked into doing this ugly, shoelaces-tied-together shuffle as you tried to retreat--seemingly in slow motion--away from the mobs. Fire up the raucous theme music they played at the end of every “Benny Hill“ episode I ever saw, it's the perfect soundtrack to listen to as your character stagger-stumbles drunkenly away from combat, looking not unlike a zombie about to cry out, “Brains! I need BRAINS!“

(3) POVERTY: A WAY OF LIFE

Monsters NEVER drop money in EQ2. Sorry. They're all broke. They don't get allowances. They don't have jobs. Once in awhile they drop some piece of crappy sell loot, but that's about it. “Farming“ mobs looked to be about as promising to me as planting a rubber boot in the ground and hoping a brand new Michelin whitewall radial tire sprouted up later. :/ I got the same crappy sell loot off a level 8 Gnoll (“Canine Saliva“, aka “Doggy Drool') as I later did with a level 25 Gnoll. Skellies on the Island of Refuge--the “newbie zone”--dropped the same “skeletal hand“ at level 3 that they later dropped at level 23. Both these aforementioned items sold for a few copper pieces, which was ok when you were level 6 but when you were level 19 it got to be a little tiresome. I couldn't for the life of me keep my Crusader (Paladin wanna-be) in gear appropriate for her level. Everything I DID have, came from quests. Basically I was dressed in rags and getting the snot beat out of me because my gear was nowhere near up to the task. And when I finally quit, I was close to level 20. At 20 you needed all new gear as a tank, of the “steel“ class, and I didn't have enough money to buy even one piece of it. Great. I tried soloing umpteen bears and wolves and other crap (there weren't many mobs a person could realistically solo, they were mostly linked together as Groups) to earn money, but nowhere near enough Doggy Drool and Ravaged Crappy Worthless Bear Hides dropped for me to get anywhere. And Lyndon Johnson wasn't president of Qeynos; Qeynos was ruled by a Queen who I guess was more along the Marie Antoinette “let them eat cake!“ lines. There was no welfare system for would-be tanks, no buying things on credit. I needed gear to do my job but I didn't have the money to buy it and I couldnt get the money to buy it because I didn't have the gear. A lovely Catch-22. Apparently Sony thinks peeps have “fun“ by being mired in abject poverty, unable to afford to buy level-appropriate gear for their characters, no matter how many wolves and bears they killed. Gee, thanks. Can you say, “/cancel?“ I KNEW you could! I played for 19 levels and never saw a single one-handed sword drop, EVER, off of ANYTHING. EQ2 has, I bet, the worst itemization of any MMORPG ever made. There was very little variety in which items mobs dropped, and the bulk of what items there were sucked hard. Plus items only dropped for a few select classes. Crusaders need not apply. Too bad I didn't choose some goofy dual-wielding character, I saw a jillion examples of a certain dagger drop for a dual-wielding something-or-other... Rogue class I guess... /shrug. But swords? Fuhghedaboutit.

(4) YOU WILL GROUP DAMMIT AND LIKE IT! OR ELSE!

Soloing isn't a viable option in EQ2. The way most mobs are set up makes sure of that. So not only are you forced to group, but you're forced to gag on other people's vomit in the form of shared experience debt all the time. I've already covered these two things, so let's go onto what I REALLY REALLY hated the most about EQ2: The Level Grind.

(5) CHEWING ON BROKEN GLASS: DING!

I never played EQ1, but I guess one thing they carried over from there to EQ2 was the slow, boring level grind. It took me longer to go from 14-15, grouped (I still grouped almost constantly back then), than it ever did for me to go from 49-50 in Avalon City while grouped. And each level just got worse. By 19 I lost count of how many hours I played trying to hit 20, both solo and grouped. It all started to become a blur. Nothing I did seemed to help. Being in a group pulling orange-con “up-ups“ wasn't doing it. Nothing was doing it. And since the thought of turning 20 only depressed me anyway--since I'd go from being an inadequate tank to a truly ineffective one, thanks to my piss-poor gear--I finally decided to just... let it GO. Stop chewing on broken glass. An MMORPG is supposed to be FUN. My first 20 levels in DAOC, with my first character, were an endless stretch of breathless joy and wonderment. Racquelina didn't have great gear but she was always able to earn enough to buy DECENT gear, and that was good enough. Whereas Tiffanny in EQ2 could only /cry as she got wailed on by mobs barely above her level because they weren't impressed by her grey-green-blue con crap. Didn't help, either, that the mobs in EQ2 were insanely strong; my Pally wanna-be was sometimes two-shotted by various orange-con mobs that were all of level 24 or so. I'm talking 300+ damage per hit, versus a character with barely over 600 hit points. That seems wildly out of balance to me; I can't think of any mid-20s mob that ever hit me for 300+ in DAOC. Maybe the EQ2 fanboi crowd would say it's cuz DAOC is too easy but I disagree. DAOC tries to keep a balance between fun and frustration going, whereas Sony seems to delight in making every mob so damed hard that frustration is the name of the game. Can you say, “Forced Groupage“ again? And once more, only prob with THAT is, you're always buried in XP debt when you group habitually. (I'll exclude the guild peeps from this, no doubt they coped better but I had no guild, no help, no friends, no nothing. I, like most players, was stuck with random pickup groups all the time, and left to fend totally for myself).

All in all, I ran SCREAMING back to DAOC within barely a week of blowing 50 bucks on EQ2. I'm not looking to beat my brains out, be stressed, and feel depressed over a GAME. DAOC never did that to me as a newb; quite the opposite. EQ2, conversely, seemed like some sort of wicked stepmother who only delighted in beating me, yelling at me, putting me down. I felt BAD every time I played EQ2 for a few hours. Beyond the first couple days--when the eye-candy held me enthralled--I never had any fun whatsoever. Everyone I met seemed to be either a loot-whore or a whiner or else just totally silent and indifferent. I'm too used to the Gaheris community to settle for THAT, thanks. So buhBYE EQ2, don't call me, cuz I sure as Hell won't be calling you...


~~Tiffany

Shining1
07-12-2004, 00:04:55
WoW! :D

Darkstar
07-12-2004, 00:16:00
Sounds like one happy player. ;)

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 00:35:28
I don't really agree with 100% of this. I never had a problem with the combat system for example for the simple reason that I was never the tank and actually had to target specific foes manually. I can see how that could be frustrating though. Also, if you know which mobs to farm you do get decent loot once in a while. But in order to turn that into cash so you can get items you can actually use, you have to sell that loot to other players via brokers. That you can only do if you sit in your room for hours doing nothing (no offline selling!). Definitely not my idea of fun.

Except for those things I agree with that post completely. Especially the parts about the level-grinding, experience-debt and the forced grouping are dead on and give a good indication why so relatively many people are leaving EQ2.

JM^3
07-12-2004, 05:11:25
I don't agree with most of it at all

I am rarely in XP debt and I group all the time

never had targeting problems except when I try to target myself (I am a healer, so sometimes I tank for very small groups)

if you target yourself, you can face any way you wish (if you wish to run)

later skeleton hands do sell for more than earlier ones, might depend on who you sell to also though

selling by brokers does sort of suck (Although it is better than AO), but you can sell automatically while at work

there are still areas (at level 17) where I can level in under an hour (even not set up for max leveling (with a level 11 in the group, with too many healers in the group, etc))

Jon Miller

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 11:15:24
I am rarely in XP debt and I group all the time.

You're a lucky guy then. I agree that she saying that she was "buried up to her eyeballs in xp-debt the entire time" is an exaggeration, but in my experience it's easily possible to be in xp-debt 60-70% of the time. And no, I didn't die 1000 times a day. I stopped playing my main character when he had ~1200 kills and only 6 deaths. That kills/death ratio easily puts me at least in the top 10% on my server. My xp-debt problems were almost entirely due to the stupidity of other people. And the worst thing about it is that it aggravates the level-grinding even more. There's absolutely no reason to punish you for the actions of the people in your group. None. I have no clue what SOE was thinking when they put that in.

So you're either really lucky with your groups, or you have a group of good players that you regularly play with. Still, the shared exp-debt idea is moronic either way.

never had targeting problems except when I try to target myself (I am a healer, so sometimes I tank for very small groups)

if you target yourself, you can face any way you wish (if you wish to run)

As I said, I never really was in the position to have that problem, so I can't really comment.

later skeleton hands do sell for more than earlier ones, might depend on who you sell to also though

selling by brokers does sort of suck (Although it is better than AO), but you can sell automatically while at work

Uh, whether skeleton hands sell for 20c or 40c doesn't really make a difference. Loot is still way too sparse, there's no way around it. And it's especially sparse since you have to also share it with your group, because of the FORCED GROUPING IN EQ2. AAAAAAAAAAAAH! :bash:

Also I can think of no reason to not allow selling of items to other people while you're offline or adventuring besides that it's less realistic. But that's a stupid reason in a game where you can easily walk up a slope that has a gradient of 85 degrees.

there are still areas (at level 17) where I can level in under an hour (even not set up for max leveling (with a level 11 in the group, with too many healers in the group, etc)).

No way.

I'd say from 17-18 it takes you at least 4 hours if through some miracle you find an uncontested good solo spot no one else knows (impossible) and 4-5 hours in a decent group. If you're not lucky and get a sucky group then double it. And if you're in xp-debt you can effectively double that again.

After four years of playing D2 I regularly asked myself there why the hell I was still wasting my time with this game after so long. I had the same kind of feeling after two weeks of EQ2.

JM^3
07-12-2004, 11:43:53
I rarely play with the same people (even though I am in a guild now, but it is for RP reasons..)

I would say in general most people have been good

1 hour = 60 minutes

can kill with no down time (as a party)

each kill gives ~1%

each kil takes less than 30 sec

Jon Miller
(the essences in the wailing caves is what was working for level 17)

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 11:59:58
I have one character in Freeport and it took him way longer than an hour for 14-15 in the Wailing Caves. And yes, the group I had there was very decent and I hardly had exp-debt.

First of all 1 kill ~ 1% is way exaggerated in my eyes. It's more like one mob of 3 to 4 foes ~ 1%. And that takes way more than just 30 seconds. And second of all, you always have downtime somewhere (running through the dungeon, regenerating, other parties killing already, preparing for the fight, people going afk for a minute, group chat, etc ...). In the end that all adds up. I think you're good if you manage 25% in one hour. That was about what I had when I made it from 14-15 there. And as I said, when you're not lucky and get a shitty group you probably end up spending more time retrieving your shards and drowning in exp-debt than doing any killing. It's a gamble.

But in the end argueing about those details is silly. You seem to like the game and that's great. I don't like it and I'm going to WoW. That's ok too (except for the wasted 50 bucks). End of story. :)

JM^3
07-12-2004, 12:06:32
wailing caves overall are really slow (I hardly raised at all in hours there at times)

it is just down at the bottom, against certain monsters, that the XP rolls in (and it is 1% per 1 kill)

and you aren't moving arround much, because the monsters you want to kill are right arround you (although I guess we were sort of lucky it wasn't camped)

yah, it is all ok

and I might even like WoW better (need to save money right now through)

Jon Miller

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 12:35:29
And now for something completely different ...

(from the UPS order tracking page)

Package Progress:

Dec 7, 2004
1:27 P.M.
KOELN (COLOGNE), DE

PACKAGE DATA PROCESSED BY BROKERAGE. WAITING FOR CLEARANCE;RELEASED BY CLEARING AGENCY. NOW IN-TRANSIT FOR DELIVERY

6:46 A.M.
PHILADELPHIA, PA, US

ARRIVAL SCAN

5:18 A.M.
LOUISVILLE, KY, US

DEPARTURE SCAN

4:43 A.M.
LOUISVILLE, KY, US

DEPARTURE SCAN

4:05 A.M.
KOELN (COLOGNE), DE

PACKAGE DATA PROCESSED BY BROKERAGE. WAITING FOR CLEARANCE

12:57 A.M.
LOUISVILLE, KY, US

ARRIVAL SCAN

Dec 6, 2004
9:40 P.M.
DALLAS/FT. WORTH A/P, TX, US

DEPARTURE SCAN

8:04 P.M.
DALLAS/FT. WORTH A/P, TX, US

ORIGIN SCAN

Dec 4, 2004
6:42 P.M.

BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED


WoW, here I come!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Shining1
07-12-2004, 14:29:24
Today was the first time I could play EQ2 for an extended amount of time and what Kitty says is actually the first thing that really stood out to me (besides the awesome graphics). In EQ2 you can solo somewhat, but lots of times you'll have to group if you want to get on. Apparently if you have to rely on other people once in a while, this brings out the best in people. I haven't met a single person today that I didn't like. That will probably be the other way around in WoW, since the community will mainly come from D2.

VS.

Loot is still way too sparse, there's no way around it. And it's especially sparse since you have to also share it with your group, because of the FORCED GROUPING IN EQ2. AAAAAAAAAAAAH!


What a difference a week makes... :/

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 14:40:04
Those two posts don't really contradict each other ... :)

The community in EQ2 is still great and it's not like I hate grouping up. I just don't want to be totally dependant on it. And besides, grouping up also introduces issues like too little loot and exp-debt that I didn't really have an overview yet at that point. :(

HelloKitty
07-12-2004, 20:09:31
Originally posted by Mightytree
I found this post on another forum. I think for all of those who've grown to dislike EQ2 in the first month of playing this is a delight to read ... :D

Wow. Been too busy to read this as I have been playing and tonight will be the first on my server to hit tier 5.

(1) SHARED EXPERIENCE DEBT

Personally, I like it, but if you just form groups of any random smacktard, yeah it can suck. Except when I betrayed though I have never had debt that took more than 20 min to get rid of. But some people like no risk.

"Shared xp debt = MMORPG socialism. I don't like socialism, in any form."

lol

(2) COMBAT SYSTEM

Someone needs to read the manual and find out how things auto target, how to target, how to use the face command, and how to run away from a fight without doing the funny walk.


(3) POVERTY: A WAY OF LIFE

Yep. Monsters never drop money. God DAMN them for removing cash from the badgers, bears, wolves, etc. Those bastards actually made things like pelts etc drop off the monsters that sell for more depending on level. Or those items can be sold to other players that are tradeskillers or traded for gear.

And the fact that this guy has crap gear is just proof he is an idiot and is playoing this game the same wayyouplayed every other second gen game like EQ1, FFXI, WOW, DAOC. He is grinding only. If he had taken the time to quest in a game called "EVERQUEST" he could have, like I did at lvl 20, had most of his slots full of yellow-orange con equipment, then start the AQs at 20 to get even better gear and about 3 levels of exp.

But I guess he wants to be able to sit in one spot on a hill for 12 hours.

(4) YOU WILL GROUP DAMMIT AND LIKE IT! OR ELSE!

Unless you go to solo areas. If you pull or want to kill group con stuff, you need a group, I siloed lvl 17-20 and lvl 23-25 with no problem.

(5) CHEWING ON BROKEN GLASS: DING!

He has one good point finally and some really bad ones.

Yes, there is a grind in EQ2, it is less than EQlive, but much more than WoW and nothing compared to FFXI.

As for his complaints about things hitting him, HE IS WHINING BECAUSE ORANGE CONS BEAT HIS ASS?

Lets see the con system

gray- You better win
Green- Should be easy
Blue- Should win, small challenge
White- Even fight
Yellow- You are at a distinct disadvantage
Orange- Mob is going to fuck you up.
Red- Pretty much instant death.

Plus each of those cons are based on group or solo. An orange con that is marked group is designed to fuck up a group. I think we have a retarded player here.



Anyway, if you want Monty Haul, WoW is for you. If you want a challenge and to think, EQ2 is for you.

HelloKitty
07-12-2004, 20:11:08
Originally posted by Mightytree
I have one character in Freeport and it took him way longer than an hour for 14-15 in the Wailing Caves. And yes, the group I had there was very decent and I hardly had exp-debt.



Thats your fault for being in WC and not 3rd gate.

HelloKitty
07-12-2004, 20:15:49
2 weeks out an there are people in WOW waiting for the next expansion.

http://www.maxmeout.com/index.php%3Fserver=0.html

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 20:45:49
Originally posted by HelloKitty
2 weeks out an there are people in WOW waiting for the next expansion.

I just had a look at the EQ2 forums and there are also already people complaining that some are getting close to max level. So in fact the same could be said about EQ2.

I think that this is more a problem for EQ2 than for WoW, since from what I've seen the people that play EQ2 get their motivation to keep on playing from the level-grind and the sense that once you've got a high-level character you've accomplished something special. Games like WoW that are closer to a Diablo-esque mentality don't really have that problem because the game is fun from the first minute on. Levelling in D2 was even faster than it is in WoW now, but lots of people still played it for 4 years because it was fun. That's the fundamental difference. I think the people that are saying that WoW doesn't have the long-term appeal of EQ2 don't really understand that concept. Or maybe they don't understand that some people aren't buying a game in order to play it for 5 years. If that happens then that's great, but if you only get half a year out of a game then that's a good investment too.

My posts about EQ2 here have been mostly negative, but I don't really think it's a bad game. It's decent, but I just don't have the mindset for it. And to be honest I don't understand it either. But if people are enjoying EQ2 then that's great. I have no problem with that. Contrary to that I see a lot of people on the EQ2 boards that are envious of WoW's success and bash it at every opportunity. The reason why WoW is more popular and got better reviews is actually quite simple. It's the better game because it appeals to a lot more people and a lot more are having fun with it. EQ2 does have his niche too, but it's not nearly as big. There are not as many people having fun with EQ2 and so it got lower scores. Makes sense to me. But that doesn't mean that it's not possible that it's a great game for certain people.

I don't really have a clue what or where the 3rd gate is, Kitty, and I don't really care either. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have made such a difference to change my mind about the game. Besides, we were specifically talking about the WC and not any other area.

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 21:23:43
Anyway, if you want Monty Haul, WoW is for you. If you want a challenge and to think, EQ2 is for you.

I play what I perceive is fun, call it what you will. I gave EQ2 a fair chance and it failed. Hell, I even bought it *before* WoW.

I agree that WoW doesn't sound like it's a game full of mindboggling strategic decisions, but neither is EQ2. Playing EQ2 is the equivalent to trying to kill a 10.000 HP monster that can't hurt you, with a stick that does 1-2 damage per hit. That's not challenging or very strategic ... it just takes ages. If you've got a well-balanced group consisting of players that aren't total fucktards then there's not many mobs that can kill you. I see the thought that EQ2 is somehow a deep and strategic game as one of the last straws of EQ fanboys to tell themselves that their game of choice is still number one in its genre.

HelloKitty
07-12-2004, 21:54:24
You really can't judge the strategy or much of either game in the first 20 levels unless you do the instanced raids, ring events, etc. In WoW you can get 20 in a day in EQ2 you don't even pick your final class till lvl 20.

Also, I have always said that WOW will sell better and have a much broader appeal than EQ2. Besides the ease of play, the Warcraft name, there is also the fact that the average gamer is at the low end of EQ2 specs. Just to me its the difference between playing Ninja Gaiden and Pac Man Adventures. Both fun great games.

And I understand your point about WOW, but as a MMORPG it is designed to last 5+ years, not to be a 2 week and move on game. COH is an awesome designed and instantly fun out of the box game to play. Why are they still out there at all? They are adding content nonstop and they are still losing people because the game is too easy.

Also, people are complaining about people being too high in EQ too, but lets compare the two.

AFAIK, the highest level player in EQ2 is lvl 43 of 50 and the game ahs been out twice as long as WOW. The highest level adventurer on my server is lvl 41, I am the highest level crafter on my server and 4th or 5th gamewide and am about 50% into lvl 41.

The vast majority of people in EQ2 are not powering throught the levels, they are doing the quests, they are exploring the zones, if thats what you want EQ2 is bad.

The problem WOW is going to face is the same problem EQ1 before the first expansion and SWG faces, at the end there is very little to do, in WOW and SWG maxxing out is very fast and simple. In EQ1 it was hard but they never intended to make an expansion so by the time they did the population was fairly high up.

"Playing EQ2 is the equivalent to trying to kill a 10.000 HP monster that can't hurt you, with a stick that does 1-2 damage per hit. "

What game were you playing?

3rd gate is also called Fallen Gate and was the gate to entrance of Neriak in EQ1.

Mightytree
07-12-2004, 22:38:27
Actually the highest character on any server is ~46 or 47. At least that's what I read on the EQ2 boards.

Anyway ... I see what you're trying to say, Kitty, but my point still stands that if the average player can max his characters in, say, 2 months in EQ2 then that's a bigger problem than if someone can do the same in 3 or 4 weeks in WoW. The long-time motivation to keep playing in EQ2 is based on the fact that it's supposed to take long to achieve something. I don't think it's quite the same in WoW. And even if WoW loses its appeal after half a year, I don't really care. I got my money's worth out of the game. MMORPGs may be built to keep players busy for several years, but if that's not the case with WoW then that's more of a problem for Blizzard and not for me. I'm not really enough of a fanboy to be worried about that. You have to ask Ned instead. ;)

I give you the point about strategy in EQ2. All I can say about that is that the game simply couldn't hold my interest long enough to make a more thorough judgement. I didn't really notice anything outstanding in that regard in the time I played, but it's possible that strategy is more part of the middle or end-game. I wouldn't know, so fair enough.

The points I was trying to make with my long, boring, Darkstar-ish posts are actually rather simple.

1. I gave EQ2 a fair chance and didn't like it for various reasons

2. That doesn't mean it's a bad game

3. I'm switching to WoW because I feel it will definitely fit my playstyle better

4. I don't really care if WoW lasts one year or five

5. I have no problem with challenging games, or a certain level-grind but somewhere the fun has to come in too

6. OW is a bastard and he sucks

I don't really feel like discussing any more details any more, at least not today. I'm a bit tired of it and ultimately time will tell anyway.

Asher
07-12-2004, 22:43:54
EQ2 players are wankers who need to get out more.

Shining1
08-12-2004, 01:33:08
Still a bit mystified by HK's emphasis on levels and grinding as being the only thing that matters in an MMO.

I'm level 21+ in WoW now, with 3 level 16/17 Warriors on other servers as well. It's not going to take me as little as another two weeks to reach level 60. Basing a game's worth off how quickly a remorseless powergamer can achieve a certain number is flawed.

And anyway, the very first point about max level in WoW is that you need TWO level 60 characters (one horde, one alliance) before you can even remotely begin to run out of content. Given that there are 6 distinct starting locations in the game, 8 different classes and more than enough quests in each to get a character to level 30, there is massive replayability if you have the ability to make another character. It's not an EQ case of 'right, I'm level 60, when does the fun start?'

Secondly, coming from the Diablo2 experience, ITAMZ >> L3V3LZ. The high level raid aspect of the game is geared towards this, akin to Meph runs in D2. That's something to do.

Thirdly, there's PvP - it's integral to the game. Which adds a massive edge to the second point, because if all you can do with your items is to run around killing MORE monsters to get MORE items, that starts to break down. Make a game where the goal is to fight other players, and, well, that's how 90% of the FPS market makes its money right there. It's the most fun thing you can do with a computer. You don't NEED any other goal.

The PvP aspect even makes it desirable that most players will be able to reach the level cap without being forced to go to unreasonable lengths to achieve it. Fighting high level characters as a lowbie is demoralizing enough without the added knowledge that your job, relationship, and social life will make it impossible for you to ever reach their level.

If the PvP is good, fun, and fair, WoW will be just fine, probably forever. As I read it, everything about the game hinges on that concept. Points 1 has been executed brilliantly - I love the quests, the environment, the setting, and the overall style of the game. Point 2 - I dunno, I'm having great fun with the crafting system and there appear to be some great items around already. Point 3 will need a whole lot of hard work to get just right, especially on the different levels of dueling, smallscale skirmishing and mass PvP.

Anyway, my point is that the minimum time it takes to get level 60 seems a bit of a useless clue as to the future of World of Warcraft.

JM^3
08-12-2004, 06:27:19
WoW actually seems more interesting because of the limited time (I am time limited, so don't want to spend a ton of time)

Jon Miller

Mightytree
08-12-2004, 07:37:21
One thing that hasn't come up yet at all is character variety. Granted, it was not something that bothered me that much in EQ2, but still ...

In EQ2 all subclasses progress the same way. In fact quite a few also look the same until around level 20ish because they're all wearing the same armor from their class quests. In contrast the WoW system is based on skill points like D2. That alone gives you a lot more possibilities in terms of character progression. Add to that that WoW doesn't have the 4 characters per account limit EQ2 has, and you've got a game where you can actually experiment. That's also a plus for WoW's long-term appeal.

Shining1
09-12-2004, 01:58:11
To be fair, the counter arguement to that MT is that quite probably there will be, for instance, an uber Rogue PvP build, an uber Rogue solo build, and an uber raid build.

And people will bitch and whine at you if you show up in a skirmishing party with a soloing Rogue, etc.

Talents do help minimise that, at least, since there's no chance that a Rogue will somehow not have Vanish and Evasion at level 60. It's harder to gimp a character by entirely failing to have certain critical skills (although a warrior at level 40 without Mortal Strike is going to be much less of a threat all up).

I *do* agree with the way each class looks really cool and different due to the armor and item restrictions.

JM^3
20-12-2004, 08:03:56
I have been playing a lot less EQ@

just because life has been needing attentino

and it will continue to do so

but I got two adventure levels today, and one craftsman level

there was double xp days today and tomorrow on my server (all servers)

Jon Miller

JM^3
20-12-2004, 08:05:28
wow, I hadn't realised how little I had been playing (I knew I hadn't logged on in over a week)

it has been almost two weeks since I leveled

Jon Miller

HelloKitty
20-12-2004, 19:24:23
Cool. They had a major meltdown over the weekend. The news on the wire is employee sabotage of the database.

They are giving away over 300k$ of free time and double exp till Tues because of it.

Lesolar
21-12-2004, 08:58:57
Hey I am on Steamfont and wondered if there were more of us there?

HelloKitty
21-12-2004, 09:07:31
I am on Crushbone, which is apparently the unofficial Gay and Spanish server.

Darkstar
21-12-2004, 23:46:17
Wouldn't any server you were on be the the unofficial Gay Twat server, HelloKitty?