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King_Ghidra
19-10-2004, 08:48:53
First impressions
Well unlike the previous evolutions, this one didn't throw my timing and controls out by very much. I pretty much still felt like i was playing pes3.

In previous version updates i suddenly found myself mistiming tackles, finding that the button that i thought did x now does y, etc. Not this version.

Some of the new close control options, feints, etc. are very cool. They are tough enough to perform and not so powerful that it doesn't turn the game into a FIFA tricks contest, but yet still provide a few nice options.

The player animations are superb, a great improvement in many areas.

I noticed you can be a bit more generous with the shot bar now. In PES3 a little tap would hit a powerful shot and much more would send it well over. But now i find if i don't put quite enough in the power bar i get a bit of a powder-puff effort.

the ball seems to pop out of the challenges further and more randomly than before, and the ball bounces further off players too. This is actually quite a realistic improvement i think and the consequence is that the goal mouth scrambles are the best yet and seems to lead to more own goals too

headed knock-downs are more accurate, and the players also chest higher balls a lot more, which can lead to more volleys and half volleys

The handballs have all but been removed as far as i can see. I haven't seen one in 30+ games.

Penalties seem a lot easier to win, my lad Adriano seemed to win one maybe every other game, although i do spend a lot of time dribbling around the box so it might be a little unrepresentative.


Edit mode
Some stupid emissions from this mode, for example, no hooped or striped kits in the team kits options - wtf?! Also it is no longer possible to change the announcer's pronunciation of the team name, so they will merrily go on about Old firm blue or Manchester Blue, even though you've changed them to Glasgow Rangers/Man City.

Transferring club players is much easier now though, which helps keep the teams up to date.

I created some players yesterday and couldn't work out how to register them to a cub, so i hope there's a way of doing that at least.

Oh i noticed you can't edit many of the aspects of the licensed teams, which is kind of not a problem, because they have been very well created to begin with.

League and Cup modes
No major surprises here, all the usual competitions offered. However a nice new change is that you can now play a league season for one of the six countries for whom all the clubs are featured, so you can play a premiership season for instance.


Master League
With all the new club teams this is the biggest master league ever. There are

also several was the ML can now be played - you can create a new club from scratch, or you can do it the old fashioned way, starting with a real team but a squad of nobodies, or you can jump straight in with a real club and its existing real players. You can also trade 3 players out and get players of your own choice in at the beginning of the season to tailor your team a bit.

A huge change to the ML is the concept of aging players and player growth. No longer do ML players hover in suspended animation as you progress, now they age and their stats change for better or worse as they do. Stat growth is also influenced by training (this can be pretty tedious and time-consuming) and how well the players do in matches.

Ultimately aging players will retire and you will need to find replacements. The game generates new young players to replace them so you too can guide a team of kids to glory.

All of these things sound cool in practice but having played just over a season already, it seems to me the ML is possibly a little too big and time-consuming now, time will tell.


Overall
Another improvement, some minor niggles but the core gameplay is definitely better than ever.

Funkodrom
19-10-2004, 09:02:05
You can buy a lot of edit options in the bit where you buy game upgrades, not sure if some of them cover your concerns? I know one was player hair editing but not sure what the others are, I think one of them is to unlock the commentator's pronounciation of the teams...

I've only played a few games (4 1 player last night and 5 two player at the weekend at Mr Riffs house) but I agree with most of that.

I've never really played master league and doubt I'll start on this version though.

My only great annoyance so far is they've taken out the option to have a round robin tournament in the Konami cup, and increased the minimum number of teams to 8 for a league tournament. So you can no longer have a mini 4 player league. :(

Haven't tried any of the new skill things. I need to get into learning how to dribble again, the players turn so much quicker now that you can't get so close to the defenders before turning them.

King_Ghidra
19-10-2004, 09:31:54
mike, re: the edit problems, having had a good look i don't think those options are in the pes shop now/any more

and re: the round robin, you can do this from the league now rather than the cup - you just make a 3 or 4 team league and select half a season.

Funkodrom
19-10-2004, 09:37:20
Damn, that's a shame.

Aha! Excellent. That makes more sense. We didn't look there for it, just looked where it'd always been.

One thing I've noticed is that it seems a lot more realistic to score from crosses. They seem to fluctuate between making it too easy and too hard, seems about right now.

Gramercy Riffs
21-10-2004, 12:13:32
"Penalties seem a lot easier to win, my lad Adriano seemed to win one maybe every other game....."

Thats because you cheat and dive.

Funkodrom
21-10-2004, 12:27:44
:lol:

King_Ghidra
22-10-2004, 08:50:44
jealousy is an awful thing

my last 3 results at chez gramercy riffs

5-2 win over gramercy
5-2 win over craig
4-2 win over gramercy

in all cases the lads obliged me with some senseless fouls both in and out of the area

i merely provided the sublime close control and tricks

Funkodrom
22-10-2004, 08:58:48
I haven't played since Monday, and not going to get much time this weekend either.

Stupid social life interfering with games. :D

I don't think I've scored 5 goals in all my games put together. :lol:

Funkodrom
22-10-2004, 08:59:44
Still it's nice being the underdog for a change, rather than the undisputed master. ;)

Gramercy Riffs
22-10-2004, 11:58:06
K_G fails to point out that his two "wins" over me, were against 9 and 10 men respectively.

Still, if he's happy........:)

King_Ghidra
22-10-2004, 12:03:23
the referees must punish your serious and destructive foul play as they see fit

if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime, mr riffs

lord knows how many great goals have been prevented by your petulant fouling in the past

Gramercy Riffs
22-10-2004, 12:13:14
Well, we'll never know.......

King_Ghidra
22-10-2004, 12:15:07
let's say 1000 then

Funkodrom
22-10-2004, 12:22:37
Gramercy Riffs has always been a cynical fouler in the great Shaker tradition. Must be a Bury thing.

Funkodrom
22-10-2004, 12:23:17
Although I didn't give him a chance to foul me, I never had the ball! HA!

Gramercy Riffs
22-10-2004, 12:26:51
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Must be a Bury thing.

If you were from Bury, you'd be cynical too.

Funkodrom
22-10-2004, 12:27:47
I get down on my knees and say my thanks to little baby Jesus every night for that blessing.

fp
22-10-2004, 21:07:11
I don't have this game. :( :( :(

That's probably just as well for you lot, though, since if I did I would probably be the best player in the whole universe.

*End Is Forever*
24-10-2004, 14:41:02
I nearly went leafleting in Bury yesterday. I stayed in bed instead.

King_Ghidra
25-10-2004, 08:36:40
4-0 against Gramercy again on the weekend

although he did beat me 2-0 the previous day

also had a 1-1 draw and a 2-1 defeat to craig


i still can't make up my mind what tactic i like best. i was playing 3-5-2 with my master league team but it so chronically lacks in defensive width it's disturbing. the 4-4-2 with two dmf and two omf is quite good but that is rather lacking in offensive width. 5-4-1 is a good challenge to play, but unless you have a prety sexy forward you ain't going to do jack

Funkodrom
25-10-2004, 09:05:48
I really like the 4-4-2 with the flat midfield and proper wide men. Haven't really used that on previous versions but the AI of the computer players interaction between the full backs and wingers seems much improved.

King_Ghidra
25-10-2004, 09:22:06
yeah the runs are excellent now

Funkodrom
25-10-2004, 09:42:56
Playing as England it was noticeable that Cole and Neville were always the most knackered from bombing up and down the pitch.

fp
26-10-2004, 12:47:11
Why on earth is Trabelsi playing for Arsenal in this game? That's so gay.

fp
26-10-2004, 12:59:27
Still, I had great fun playing it last night. Played the North London derby on max difficulty as Spurs in my first game and drew 1-1 thanks to a last minute equaliser from Kanoute.

After about three games versus the AI I made the mistake of dipping into the Challenge Training mode and spent the next hour and a half trapped in just-one-more-go hell.

Unlike K_G I didn't think this game was any easier to go straight into than the previous versions. I still had a few problems adjusting to the ways the players move in this game. The passing system has been changed quite a bit, giving you much more freedom with your short passes and through balls. This is definitely a change for the better, but I gave the ball away loads last night because it didn't do exactly what I thought it would do (ie. what it did in PES3).

King_Ghidra
28-10-2004, 10:17:51
I was reading some stuff online about free-kicks in pes4, specifically about curling the ball, so i spent a good half-hour the other night trying various things. You can apply curl by doing left or right while doing the power bar or you can apply it after letting go off the power bar by using the right analogue stick. You can also go for an especially strong or weak shot by holding R1 or R2. Finally you can adjust the height by holding up or down on the d-pad while doing the power bar. I should also mention the same principles apply to corner kicks.

Sounds complex and it is too. However, get it right and you can get something approximating robbie carlos' famous goal, or perhaps more usefully, whip in a curling free kick.

I did my experiments mainly with the brazil national team and also a bit with interazionale. the brazil national team doesn't have a really good free kicker, their best is still only high 80's for relevant stats, but i was still able to observe some noticeable curve on the ball. For dead-ball crosses the curve is much more noticeable than for shots, and it had quite a big impact on how you can deliver the ball to your players milling around the penalty area.

One thing for sure though, applying curl can cause significant changes to the initial kick direction and you need to know what you are doing or it will end up in completely the wrong area. With the corner kicks i several times hit balls that went straight off the pitch. i didn't practice these too much but the possibilities look promising.

One strange thing i noticed on free kicks was that despite both recoba and veron having seemingly excellent fk related stats, veron was significantly more effective as a fk shot taker. Trying similar shots i scored several goals with veron and i think not a single one with recoba. I think perhaps recoba might have been more suited to longer-range power shots whereas what i was trying was c.22yd dipping shots. The message is pretty clear though, fk stats can not be taken in isolation, you also need to know what type of shots the player excels at, which foot they take them with, etc.

For anyone who wants to give it a go, the controls option on the training menu gives the full instructions for what i've described here.

Funkodrom
28-10-2004, 10:40:09
Cool. I'll have to have a play with that.

King_Ghidra
29-10-2004, 09:17:08
I won the Master League Div. 1 last night. A bit of a slog, thirty games + 14 games to get up from div. 2, + 4 div 2. cup games, 1 div. 1 cup game and 7 off season games.

I only played on skill level 4 but after losing my opening div. 1 game i went 29 games unbeaten (not counting a humiliating cup exit to my milan rivals).

Got a nice 5000 PES pts for doing it so, i'm well on way to unlcoking all the goodies.

fp
29-10-2004, 11:27:13
skill level four is for girls. :p

Having said that, I'm having a wee bit of trouble with level 5. Been playing Serie A as Milan and after 12 games my record is 8 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses. I'm only 5th in the league - Sampdoria are top after somehow winning 11 games.

Most of the time the games are easy, I was all over Juve but didn't manage to score and drew, which sucked. I've lost 0-2 to Roma and 0-3 to Inter and both times they've totally out-classed me, which in a way is bad but it's also cool that the game is still that challenging after have played various very similar versions of it for years and years.

I'm gonna start a Master League (lvl5) as Spurs tonight, which I expect will be pretty tough.

Has anyone tried skill level 6 yet? If so, how much tougher is it than 5?

King_Ghidra
29-10-2004, 12:23:48
Originally posted by fp
skill level four is for girls. :p


In Previous PES versions it wasn't, but it does seem easier this time around. Also on the high difficulty levels the computer often seems to do virtuslly impossible things and that ruins my sense of playing a football match.

But yeah, considering i went 29 games unbeaten i guess i should up the ante. Funnily enough i still only won the league by 6 pts, juventus were doing what your sampdoria were and just won every frikkin game.

My major concern was to complete the ML and get enough pts to unlock all the Master League customisation options in the shop. Now i can go back with my created team and shit players and try again :D

fp
02-11-2004, 19:59:30
Originally posted by fp

I'm gonna start a Master League (lvl5) as Spurs tonight, which I expect will be pretty tough.


Well it started out quite hard, but I've got everything under control now.

I shamefully didn't get promoted during my first season, but at least I managed to win the cup.

The signing of Stanley Matthews greatly improved my attacking options for the second season and I won the league (and cup again) comfortably. I've since decided that the "classic" players are so good and so cheap that it's pretty much cheating to use them, so I've dropped Mr. Matthews now.

I'm now about 10 games into my third season and am second in Division 1, still undefeated. Arsenal are top after winning their first 9 games, but I've just beaten them 4-0 (hahaha!) thanks to a Robbie Keane hat-trick so they're well within my sights now. As long as Arsenal don't win 28 of their 30 league games this season I'm very confident we'll be champions.

I'm still using almost all the original players. My star players at the moment are Robinson, Gardner, Jackson (!), Keane and Defoe. It's remarkable how much Gardner, Jackson and Defoe have improved after having "leveled up" a few times. I accidentally sold Sean Davis (:() so I bought Torrado from Mexico as a replacement and he's doing OK.

I'll finish out this season and will then probably start again using the really shit default players, like the old style of Master League.

A couple of questions:
Whether or not I choose "accept" or "reject" when another team tries to buy one of my players seems to have absolutely no effect on whether I actually sell them or not. Why?

Why do some players never earn experience points?

King_Ghidra
02-11-2004, 20:31:47
the xp thing is linked to age and the player's development chart - use the view development option and press x on the player to see their chart.

most players from 17 upwards will gain rapidly and then in late twenties start to level out, but adriano for instance, at only 22, started to lose skill during my inter campaign

it varies widely, some players can gain skills even in their 30's

A good guide to it all can be found on Gamefaqs.com under the ps2 pes4 section (direct linking not allowed to gamefaqs unofrtunately)

King_Ghidra
22-04-2005, 17:05:01
Funny re-reading this thread almost six months on.

I guess we are all old hands at it now but it's definitely the deepest and most rewarding version yet.

The biggest change to my gameplay has been making full use of the triple tap cross. That leads to so many close-range goals and own goals, it is excellent.

I have pretty much settled on the 4-4-2 with two dmfs and omfs, one thing i do religiously is set all the back 4 and the two dmfs to high defense. Ditto with stopping the silly individual run patterns of some of the back players. i need them all back defending not making moronic diagonal runs up the pitch at crucial moments.

Two strikers is so effective for no other reason than to have someone to bounce 1-2's off, they are still so useful right across the park tbh.

I get lots of goals from corners, just making sure i put swerve on the ball makes a massive difference. On the right side aiming the ball directly at the near post and using outswing can lead to some great near post headers

Also i've scored quite a few chipped low power free kicks, using R2 and holding down with just under half power from about 18-20 yds, although probably my best goal was with my master league platini, 25 yds out, half way power and some left swerve, in off the post, beautiful.

Funko
22-04-2005, 17:08:54
I have barely played since this thread was active. :lol:

The couple of games I had the other day were fun.

fp
22-04-2005, 18:42:08
I stopped playing this game obsessively at Xmas when I got San Andreas. I still play a couple of games a week though just to keep my hand in - you never know when you'll be randomly round a mate's house and he'll challenge you to a game. You've gotta stay sharp or you'll make yourself look like a muppet when it comes to crunch time. :beer:

fp
22-04-2005, 18:51:48
Biggest ever win: Real Madrid 8 - 0 AC Milan, 10 minute match, difficulty 6.

Best goal: The first goal of the above match. Solari picks up the ball in the centre circle, turns one player, beats another and just as he's approaching the penalty box he flicks a delicate chipped through-ball over Nesta's head, Ronaldo controls it in mid-air to wrongfoot Stam and passes it cooly past Dida and into the net. Nice.

Favourite team: Argentina

Preferred formation: 3-5-2 against the AI because I can play a high pressing game and keep them in their own half for long spells. But that doesn't work too well against humans, when 4-4-2 is the way to go because you need the defensive width.

fp
22-04-2005, 18:54:37
Originally posted by King_Ghidra

The biggest change to my gameplay has been making full use of the triple tap cross. That leads to so many close-range goals and own goals, it is excellent.

Hmm, interesting, I'll have to give that tactic a try. Plus the outswinging corners - I'm really shit from corners in this version for some reason.

Funko
23-04-2005, 15:42:07
Originally posted by fp
I stopped playing this game obsessively at Xmas when I got San Andreas. I still play a couple of games a week though just to keep my hand in - you never know when you'll be randomly round a mate's house and he'll challenge you to a game. You've gotta stay sharp or you'll make yourself look like a muppet when it comes to crunch time. :beer:

Yeah... I think it's about 6 months since we got the different TV downstairs and I still haven't got round to reconnecting up the playstation upstairs. :o

King_Ghidra@home
25-04-2005, 10:10:42
Originally posted by fp
Biggest ever win: Real Madrid 8 - 0 AC Milan, 10 minute match, difficulty 6..

i'm impressed. i gave portsmouth a 6-0 twatting the other day with arsenal on 6 stars, but not quite the same level of opposition :)

we'll have to get you down for a tourney some time. i can claim to be marginally the best player here, but gramercy and novocane both beat me semi-regularly :)

actually now that the internet's back i'm toying with getting the xbox or pc versions of pes4 to play online

novacane
25-04-2005, 10:15:12
Seems like an ideal opportunity to publicise my current reign as "Le Tournoi" Champion........

In your face!! :shoot:

Funko
25-04-2005, 10:17:39
I've always found the computer a much harder opponent than humans. Possibly 'cause I hardly ever play the computer... still think it's weird though.

fp
25-04-2005, 18:15:01
Originally posted by King_Ghidra@home
i'm impressed. i gave portsmouth a 6-0 twatting the other day with arsenal on 6 stars, but not quite the same level of opposition :)

To be honest that was rather a freak result, it's not as though I slaughter them every game.

I was shit-hot in that particular match though. :D


Originally posted by King_Ghidra@home
we'll have to get you down for a tourney some time. i can claim to be marginally the best player here, but gramercy and novocane both beat me semi-regularly :)


:beer: