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paiktis22
18-10-2004, 23:13:36
I can't believe I gave my 7 nice euros for this crap. This must have been a revelation to other countries. But really. It doesn't even break even with an average blah blah miday greek TV show ( news). Plus it didn't even make Bush look that bad , according to here perceptions.

It wasn't revolutionary, overturning, groundbreaking it was CONSERVATIVE. Not even funny.
We are way beyond Mr. Moore. Way beyond. Don't see it europeans! It isn't as half as punchy as your 8 o'clock news. Yes. Totally a waste of money except maybe in the aura of capitalism the ticket numbers underline the world's malhaise but it doesn't.
Waste of money.

MoSe
20-10-2004, 10:35:14
Originally posted by paiktis22
I can't believe I gave my 7 nice euros for this crap.
well, I only gave 3.5, one punch in my 35€ "original language movies" card (yes, in Italy we're so proud of the skill and quality of our dubbing school and industry, that we can see foreign movies in their original only in selected circuits and projections... "2046" and "La Mala Educaciòn" are current notable exceptions)

Originally posted by paiktis22
It wasn't revolutionary, overturning, groundbreaking it was CONSERVATIVE. Not even funny.
We are way beyond Mr. Moore. Way beyond. Don't see it europeans! It isn't as half as punchy as your 8 o'clock news.
Concidence, I just come from seeing F911 yesterday evening.
There were 50-60 spectators in a 300-seaters (usually full-packed for the other movies of the original-language circuit, see italic comment above). Most of them were Milan's foreign residents. They did find the movie rather funny, all through. there were a couple of female groups, sitting behind and beside me, who were actually almost exhilarated.
I had 3 or 4 good laughs too, best point was the few seconds of Britney Spears interview...

But seriously, I agree with paik about the level of the "documentary" (?).
I admit I had not seen any other of MM's works. (who knows why, I had convinced myself that he had been somehow involved with the making of "Harlan County, USA (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074605/)")
While I agree in general with MM agenda, or because I do indeed, I hae approached the moviewith a critic attitude.
I don't want to delve again into the politcal details, IIRC it has already been done here too, and I had kept clear of it at the time.
We know this is not a NationalGeographic nature documentary, this is a political "documentary", and as such it doesn't "cover" the spectre of a subject, but purposefully "selects" the "relevant" bits of info, that was to be expected...
But...

...the Palme d'Or at Cannes?????? :eek:
oh, please....
a user comment on imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/#comment) states:
"The film is 100% politically motivated, but it's also something American cinemas haven't seen in decades: a revolutionary film..."
OK, a "local US phenomenon"... ;) but, the best cinematographical work of art in general in 2004???

The documentary I mentioned above, or some Tim Robbins work to take something along that line, are way way way beyond cinematographically....
True, as paik was saying, we too have a socially committed "show" called plainly "Report" on our TV, where a journalist inquiries about hot and controversial issues, and she's doing a much much better work.

For instance, with all the due respect for Lila Liscombe's grief (or what was her name), it's not like the first time we realise someone's young son had died in some stupid war (and let me stop here). That was part of an award winning "movie"? To me, it was nothing more than BAD television, culturally (and artistically FWIW) speaking.

And, as Bush-bashism go, you can find something better everyday on most european TV channels, if you want.


Nevertheless, all that said, I wont' label F911 it as crap, it's mild and enjoyable at times. It doesn't exactly "make" you reflect but it's a reminder and summary about some things any sensible earthling should have been well reflecting upon by now.
I'd rather limit myself to say F911 is overrated.
And if you want to get your first-hand impression and document yourself about a politico-cultural phenomenon of this year, be it even for taking your distance from it, spending a few euros to see it is not a total waste of money. There are worse ways ;)

paiktis22
26-10-2004, 15:32:49
Didn't you get bored to write all this or was it a pleasant unwinding? :D
About being overated it certaintly was and one of the reasons is the Palm D'or (I think was it?). Which has become a reoccuring theme. Like Elephant which also I think had won something french and got the exposure that comes with it. And was also crap (I'll stick with my original assesment) but it got the award nevertheless.
Now if we try to examine and find out some commonality between the two films it's that both are "unconventional" (which is ok, it's always a plus for awards) but also very critical of the US or at least they touch on embarrasing US issues (war on terrorism and school shootings). So they are both unconventional, US critisizing and crap. Unfortunately it seems that as of late that's all you need to win the Cannes (who's jury is made mostly of americans, ironically)

RedFred
27-10-2004, 00:48:51
"Yawn."

Easily the second best F9/11 thread.

paiktis22
29-10-2004, 15:23:11
and i'm sure there must be only two.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
01-11-2004, 21:03:06
Well, it makes for good civic education for Kindergarten. I just don't understand why this tame filmling has the US right foaming.

Funkodrom
28-01-2005, 09:05:48
Me too. Was on TV last night.

I thought it was very mild indeed, quite sensitive in fact. I was expecting something much more vicious.

protein
28-01-2005, 11:27:58
I think the problem is that it was made for the dumb American masses - that's not an insult to America by the way, Britain has the same mass of dumb people, as do every country - so it seems his main weapon was still emotive patriotism. I think he was trying to say that America had gone temporarily insane in it's blind patriotic following of Bush and his militaristic empire building.

Instead I think he should have exposed blind patriotism as the dangerous force it is and gone into depth why spouting "liberty, democracy and peace" to the media while systematically invading, raping and pillaging oil/gas rich countries is exactly what a crazed nazi dictator would do.

If he had made a film for the rest of the world then it souldn't have even been watched in the US so I guess maybe it's a good thing that it may have made at least some Americans realise there's something rotton at the core of their country.

Funkodrom
28-01-2005, 11:38:12
I think I agree more with the way Michael Moore portrayed it in the film than the way you would have.

Most of America is made up of decent people who just want the best for themselves and their families and most of the principles America stands for - personal freedom, democracy etc. is good.

I don't disagree that blind patriotism is bad, but I disagree with you that that's not what the film was saying. That's exactly what the film was saying. It was pretty much the entire point of the second half of the film, he even quoted 1984 at the end!

protein
28-01-2005, 11:42:04
I guess you're right. It was a little tame for me though. It was like "guess what america, bush isn't a demi-god and our country isn't the most perfect in the world". Well, duh.

Funkodrom
28-01-2005, 11:46:03
Yeah, it was very tame.

Darkstar
28-01-2005, 21:49:36
Guess what? It didn't do shit in the States. Here's why... word got out it was a leftie loonie film here. So only the lefties that already thought like that bothered to go. Centrists and Righties didn't go, or if they did, started laughing at it and got tossed out by the Lefties for abridging their freedom to foam at Bush.

Stating that it's tame, conservative stuff compared to what you see on the news or your daily shows or what you believe, will just reinforce to the American posters here all their beliefs about the outside world. Like your all jealous little bitches whining because you and your country suck. For further detail on what is the matter with your various countries, you may seek out the mighty think tank at FFZ. ;)

The fact that F911 is a complete piece of shit, isn't at issue. MM admits it. It's the POLITICAL MESSAGE that's important, according to him. Of course, Stateside, he's recently changed his reasons for making the film. Lateley, he has been stating it was made to milk the American Lefties of some of their money and fatten his bank account, and keep his name "out there". That, it did well.

protein
29-01-2005, 02:40:22
:lol:

fp
29-01-2005, 11:29:37
Michael Moore is the most obnoxious arsehole in the world. I wouldn't put any more stock in the so-called "political message" in that film than in the message put out by a Republican party film called "Dubya is the Greatest!". They would both have at best a tenuous grasp on reality.

Those films he makes aren't really about politics, of course, they're all about making Michael Moore rich and famous and I suppose you have to recognise that he's been fantastically successful at that.