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Funkodrom
25-05-2004, 10:27:37
What a refreshing article. Nintendo President Satoru Iwata has come out to say that he fears about the future of the games industry if it loses innovation and continues to concentrate on graphics and realism over gameplay.

Absolutely right, good work Nintendo guy!

BBC News article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3743015.stm)

maroule
25-05-2004, 10:55:39
consumer rule
they want realism, they get it
if they want innovaytion, they'll get it too

he'd better worry about being a distant third in the console war

TV4Fun
25-05-2004, 10:55:50
Go Nintendo, go Nintendo, go Nintendo gooo!

maroule
25-05-2004, 10:58:27
innovaytion, I like my typo

Funkodrom
25-05-2004, 11:15:33
Originally posted by maroule
consumer rule
they want realism, they get it
if they want innovaytion, they'll get it too

he'd better worry about being a distant third in the console war

Distant third?

Worldwide
PlayStation 2 - 70 million
Xbox - 13.7 million
GameCube - 13.94 million
Game Boy Advance - 49.42 million

GBA sales include Original + SP.

North America
PlayStation 2 - 29.26 million
Xbox - 8.6 million
GameCube - 7.46 million
Game Boy Advance - 23.78 million

Japan / Asia
PlayStation 2 - 16.18 million
Xbox - 1.4 million (~425,000 Japan alone)
GameCube - 3.37 million
Game Boy Advance - 12.66 million

Europe / PAL
PlayStation 2 - 24.56 million
Xbox - 3.7 million
GameCube - 3.11 million (~3 million Europe alone)
Game Boy Advance - 12.98 million

maroule
25-05-2004, 11:50:28
yeah, I had the euro figures
(leave the game boy out, I'm talking consoles)

anyway, time to worry for nintendo enthusiasts, the PSX and Xbox2 are just around the corner and nintendo so far has nothing to compete with them (in term of integration of different functions, dvd, live, etc. to occupy the central spot in the living room)

zmama
25-05-2004, 11:51:53
Love them gameboys! The SP is so cool.

MDA
25-05-2004, 11:56:53
He'd like us to think so.

Asher
25-05-2004, 12:01:32
Nintendo talking about innovation?!

Has anyone here played any Nintendo Gamecube games? Screw innovation, they're up for rehashing the same ol' shit with better graphics.

Funkodrom
25-05-2004, 12:19:56
They didn't say they were being innovative enough now did they? They are part of the Games industry so they need to change too.

maroule
25-05-2004, 12:29:52
the game industry looks like a clone of the movie industry now, enormous budget (dev + marketing) needed so generic games likely to appeal to a cross section of gaming niche

but there is still place for some innovation, witness how new genres were created out of nothing with GTA or Age of Empire, etc. We're talking a few years ago only, so no need to fear than since nothing innovative came out in the last 6 months, the industry is doomed

Venom
25-05-2004, 12:30:55
Yes, it's the end of the world. Everyone start playing cards to prepare yourself for the future.

Funkodrom
25-05-2004, 12:31:51
I have already started.

Funkodrom
25-05-2004, 12:32:22
Oh and Age of Empires was a new genre?!

RTS has been around forever.

Venom
25-05-2004, 12:37:42
Since the Dune games in the late 80s.

maroule
25-05-2004, 13:20:39
yes, 91 for Dune 1
my point was that innovation is hardly dead when you have either totally new genre (like GTA) or when an 'old' genre like RTS is totally reinvigorated by one new title (like age, which spawned all by itself about 10.000 copycats)

there are plenty of innovations in the niche of strategy games, for example, but they're just mostly refinement of what exists, or a mix of old receipe (the recently release Spellforce or gangland for example, trying to mix RTS and RPG), instead of being truly spectacular innovations

the gaming sector is booming year after year, and branching out on new genres, platforms and populations (mostly more females and older gamers) so I'm not really worried about its future. I can't see a repeat of the Atari crisis of the early 80s'

Chris
25-05-2004, 20:09:21
Originally posted by Funkodrom
What a refreshing article. Nintendo President Satoru Iwata has come out to say that he fears about the future of the games industry if it loses innovation and continues to concentrate on graphics and realism over gameplay.

Absolutely right, good work Nintendo guy!

BBC News article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3743015.stm) Seeing something good is rare Mikey.

I have a flood of mediocre games to review all the time, good ones are few and far between.

One thing can be said for old nintendo, those games were fun and addictive, most games today just don't hold my attention the same way.

King_Ghidra@home
25-05-2004, 22:55:33
but doesn't your site focus on strategy/wargames?

in which case originality is hardly an issue...

sure you're not just bored of your chosen genre?

Chris
26-05-2004, 01:23:42
We expanded to include shooters and RPGs, and will soon have all game types. I have a decent racing game I just reviewed called Trackmania, but its racing, there is only so much you can do with it.

I have some shooters to review, they are just not great games.

Strat is not very popular with new designs lately, few new things in it, a lot of sequels are coming out.

King_Ghidra
26-05-2004, 08:18:10
well yeah, for sure, the genre probably most overcrowded with mediocre games is the FPS genre.

maroule
26-05-2004, 08:27:41
the multiplication of sequels is a feature of the whole industry, not just strat games, for the simple reason of maximising marketing investments and brand creation/strengthening

the strat market in fact has never been so healthy in its history : big budget big selling games like warcraft III (and its expantion last year), Rome total war this year are spreading the genre to non hardcore strat gamers, and RTS are selling by the millions (the coming RTS on middle earth by EA will also probably be a huge blockbuster)

besides it's still possible in this niche for two coders with no funds to come out with amazing strat games (w poor graphics admitedly), on the model of combat mission (coded on a kitchen table in 2000 and now used by the aussie MoDef) or more recently with Dominion2 (Illwinter) and its unexpected success.

as for 'few new things', there is for a start a whole new 'branching out' of the hybrid RPG/RTS/management, with Spellforce and gangland, both of which are still far from perfect (bay are probably first tries to be later perfected)

on the pure wargame front, highway to the reich introduced a brand new interface, very innovative. There also could be a pleasant surprise with Wartime Command, but we'll wait for that one.

in short, no reason to be gloomy

Darkstar
26-05-2004, 20:36:55
Actually, there are plenty of "innovative" and "totally new genre" or "unique mix of interesting elements" out there. Plenty of small, independant teams (of 2 or 3 coders coding in their off hours from there RL jobs). "Mainstream" gamers just are not finding them because they aren't going out and exploring for themselves what's out there. Uplink is a huge independant hit put together by 3 guys in their spare time from RL. It was such a big and successful game, they were able to quit their day jobs, and pay for real offices, rather then using a small corner of one of the developer's basement.

If you are into playing a certain TYPE of game though, then you are screwed. For example, there won't be anything really original in Conquest games. Just refinements.

So, what are you looking for? Another "jump between the platforms"? Or a manage and build your product empire? Or a crush the non-believers/barbarians under your heel? A paint your music maybe? Being god and guiding your people?

When people say original, I think most of the time they just mean "different then what I normally play but I still will think is fun". And for "genre" lovers, that means nothing really original.

Heck, even Spellforce that Maroule is going on about being an "original mix" of RTS/management/RPG isn't even CLOSE to original. That's Star Control 3. And Alien Destiny. And quite a few other games... That was the new "flavor" many studios tried after UFO.

But hey, if you can think of something "original" that would be fun, you should try marketting it. Some company might bite... you never know. So many development teams are tired of making "same old-same old".

maroule
26-05-2004, 20:40:23
"Heck, even Spellforce that Maroule is going on about being an "original mix" of RTS/management/RPG isn't even CLOSE to original."

I'm not saying it's original, I'm saying it's trying to be original (hence showing attempts to innovate)

don't dumb down my point, especially if you mostly agree with it, fucktrumpet

Darkstar
26-05-2004, 20:53:02
What crawled up your pee hole and died? You getting me confused with someone that constantly bashes on you, or you just mad you cannot find anything to pick on in Chris's post? It looks like you are really starting to miss him bringing around the Walrus to visit you from that post. Why don't you write him another long love letter and ask him nicely about it? Maybe he'll bother to answer you this time. You won't know until you try.

You did point out that game a few times, Maroule. I just thought I'd point out that the game industry recycles its own ideas. Most of the time, its just an update to the graphics and a different back story. It's the same with most things. Clothes, music, written stories, movies, etc etc etc.

maroule
26-05-2004, 20:58:20
fucktrumpet is known as an affectionate term around here, fucktrumpet, not as a serious attack

I didn't say spellforce was original, or even good, I find it (like Gangland) pretty bad in fact

Darkstar
26-05-2004, 21:57:35
Fucktrumpet is only an affectionate term only between people here that exchange bits on a regular basis. Like Funko and Venom. Otherwise it's an insulting term. I don't recall us being on such intimate terms, Maroule. Did I miss the PM inviting me to the Roland and Maroule private club?

You did give them as examples, and say you expect they'll improve in their sequels/future interations, yes? If the games are really bad, then they won't get sequels. Unless the publisher made some serious scratch off them... Do you think they will, or just that other development teams will repeat the mixture, trying to get a game that's a little different from the others on the shelf?

Venom
26-05-2004, 23:19:24
Ha HA! Burn him Darkstar. Burn that French fucktard to the ground!

maroule
27-05-2004, 07:44:36
fucktrumpet is too ridiculous an insult to be taken seriously, so what crawled up your pee hole and died? anyway, it's impossible to insult anybody on CG, insults are the basis of communication here and are hollow by definition. Even (serious) death threats sound ridiculous. SO I wouldn't know where to start if I really meant to insult you. For Venom, it's easier, I just have to say I admire him.

"Do you think they will, or just that other development teams will repeat the mixture, trying to get a game that's a little different from the others on the shelf?"

the latter : game creators adressing the strat market have a serious problem, transcend the different genre niches. As production and marketing costs explode, they need to adress bigger audiences, cross genre, and cross audience (mixing hard core / grognard strat gamers, and newcomers). One answer to that is to mix genre, hoping that everybody will find the little bit it craves for. It's exactly what Spellforce and Gangland tried to do, but they didn't nail it properly. Instead of adding up, the different bits (RPG, RTS, management, Sims in the case of gangland) look like a badly assembled puzzle, and don't even work properly when considered individually.

So I don't see sequels (although it will happen if the sales were good, which I don't know) but further attempts on the mix idea.

King_Ghidra
27-05-2004, 09:58:40
To refer to an earlier comment, how is GTA a new genre?

GTA started off as basically a driving game. It has evolved into a driving game with third person shooter elements. It's missions veer between things that emulate Chase HQ (bash another car with your car til it blows up) to ones that emulate Operation Wolf (someone else drives a helicopter or a boat and you shoot a gun). Combining influences does not a genre make.

I think GTA is quite rightly considered a very good and highly innovative combination of many influences, but it is not a genre-creating game.

maroule
27-05-2004, 14:34:04
not a major thematic genre, sure, I meant more a marketing sub genre, esp in terms of targeted population, based on its tone (the gratuitous, amoral/humourous violence in a recognisable daily environment, specifically aimed at pleasing young adults). It struck a cord and is now widely emulated, either through a whole series of copy cat games, or through a more indirect influence (marketers realised that aiming at a young adult population sells even better with teenagers who desperatly want to be young adults).

I'm using 'genre' in a very loose definition, esp considering the fragmentation of the market.

Asher
27-05-2004, 15:43:59
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Distant third?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/05/26/news_6099369.html

Xbox officially outsells PS2 in US
Citing NPD numbers, Microsoft declares its console had a 51-percent market share in April 2004.

In the time before E3, many analysts were saying that, as a result of its $149 price drop, the Xbox had begun to outsell the PlayStation 2 in the US American Technology Research analyst P.J. McNealy told CBS Marketwatch that Microsoft's console sold 270,000 units during the month, compared to 200,000 PS2s and 100,000 Nintendo GameCubes.

Today, Microsoft echoed McNealy's assertion, announcing that the Xbox was indeed America's top-selling console in April. In a press release, Microsoft claimed the Xbox captured 51 percent of the US console market in the month following the March 30 price drop, with sales up 135 percent by volume compared to 2003. Comparatively, PlayStation 2 sales declined 29 percent to hit a 32-percent share, while the Nintendo GameCube sales dropped 5 percent to a 17-percent market share.

Curiously, Microsoft didn't give specific sales numbers as McNealy did. However, the company did claim all its figures were from NPD, the top American game-market research firm whose studies are the industry standard. Microsoft also cited European data from GfK and ChartTrack, NPD European equivalents, which said the Xbox's market share increased from 23 to 26 percent in April in the UK, France, and Germany combined.

"This marks the first time ever that Sony has been knocked off the leaderboard by another console in this generation," boasted Microsoft's release, which went on to list various notable Xbox events at E3 2004.

However, questions remain about the longevity of the Xbox's rise in sales. When its price dropped to $99 last fall, the GameCube enjoyed a similar boost, also outselling the PlayStation 2 for a short time. Although, some analysts think the Xbox may see a more long-term gain in market share, due to exclusives such as Ninja Gaiden and Halo 2 as well as the recently announced deal to bring Electronic Arts' mega-popular online games to Xbox Live.

King_Ghidra
27-05-2004, 16:28:23
Originally posted by maroule
not a major thematic genre, sure, I meant more a marketing sub genre, esp in terms of targeted population, based on its tone (the gratuitous, amoral/humourous violence in a recognisable daily environment, specifically aimed at pleasing young adults). It struck a cord and is now widely emulated, either through a whole series of copy cat games, or through a more indirect influence (marketers realised that aiming at a young adult population sells even better with teenagers who desperatly want to be young adults).

I'm using 'genre' in a very loose definition, esp considering the fragmentation of the market.

actually i think you make a very good point in terms of it being part of a 'lifestyle genre'. It made me think of something like Tony Hawk's, which has a similar target demographic. That too allowed a whole sub-genre of xtreme sports type games all using a very similar game engine.

All of these type of games bend over backwards to pimp cool soundtracks as part of the game experience. They are multimedia experiences really (and of course the GTA soundtrack was actually available purely as an audio cd).

It's an interesting trend that says a lot about how the image of computer gaming has changed.