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Qweeg
08-05-2004, 08:10:12
Finally got Vicky! (http://www.paradoxplaza.com/victoria.asp) Yaay!

Now I'd like to discuss the game with other Counterglow posters that know about this game. So far I'm having a good time on the L-curve (it's quite steep).

First game that isn't just an opportunity to explore the interface is me playing as Mexico. So far I've captured most of Texas except Austin, and released it as a satallite state. Although I managed this satisfactory end to my first Vicky war (important prelude of my plan to grab the CSA from under America, when the time comes) I still have no real idea how to develop my infrastructure and build up my industries... and I really got carried away gazing deep into the shimmering numbers of the World Market, I think I ended up losing a bomb playing the market... I thought I knew what I was doing.... I thought I could handle it... I just need a little somethin to tide me over, I got a tip on the price of small arms 'see...

Anyway, advices please.

Chris
08-05-2004, 23:42:49
The CSA is tougher then you think, and if you try to take US territory, expect constant wars with the USA, they will never stop if you take land they consider US territory.

Building infrastrucure requires railroad techs, their are five levels. Each province has to be built up to the five levels, and the actual building requires Steel, Cement and lumber, as well as money, but it increases the money you get from goods and factories.

Industrial build-up is done by increasing factory size and increasing the number of craftsmen pops in the factory itself. Craftsmen require money and goods, even if you make some, they might immigrate to another country, or devolve back to farmers if their needs aern't met.

You have a better chance if you try and increase your military techs and infrastructure before taking on the USA, the AI US is very tough, and Mexico has other problems, the events file includes wars with Britain and France, and if the Brits come they are nearly immpossible to get rid of.

You might even consider selling off chunks of Mexico to the USA for techs and goodwill, the game isn't won strickly by territorial aquisition.

Qweeg
09-05-2004, 07:46:33
Mexico definately has other problems. I had hoped to clear these up and build up industry and the economy in time for the American civil war, at which point I was thinking to declare a seperate war on the Confederacy and land grab, probably after waiting till both nations had exhausted themselves somewhat. Unfortunately the economy flew out of control and I eventually went bankrupt. Still, that was a useful game in terms of what I learnt.

I definately preffer this game to Paradox's other titles, EU2 and HoI. I'm getting alot more pleasure from the mistakes and bungles along the way.

Next, Prussia, see how I do in the Big Leagues, Europes where the power and money's at, if I can make it in europe, I can make it anywhere!

Chris
09-05-2004, 14:43:41
Are you using the latest patch?

Between the release and the current patch, they drastically changed the economic model (it was reduced so that you only make 1/10 the money that you made in version 1.00 and V1.01.)

Qweeg
09-05-2004, 15:08:28
Patch 1.03 installed from the get go:).

Chris
10-05-2004, 12:34:01
Money is hard to come by, and watch out, if you re-create the german empire, the other Europeans aern't going to like the new Germany.

Qweeg
10-05-2004, 12:55:47
Fuck em.

Do you suppose it's normal then, to start a game and immediately plunge into 6 or 7 figure debt? Combined with the interest, I don't know if there's any chance of paying it all off. And I have to buy all these resources for my industries, and my middle-class keep disapearing (probably devolved by the oppresive taxes I use to try an do something about the national debt). My experiments have shown that high tariff and high debt is definately not the way to go.

Chris
10-05-2004, 14:14:34
It is very normal actually.

The thing to do is, if not at war, reduce military spending and matenance to zero, as well as crime figthing.

You have to get on the plus side, deficeit spending is a bad idea early. You lose your cleerks and craftsmen because they want goods not yet available, as well as by high taxing. NEVER tax the poor more then 33%, and try to do the same for the middle class. The upper class you can hammer with high taxes (the socialist dream, but the game IS made in Sweden!:p ).

Also, invest in your mobilzation pool, it's quite low early, and you will need those troops later. Above all, AVOID WARS EARLY. If you get to far in debt, you will go bankrupt, and you will take a minus 200 prestige hit, and that pretty much finishes you in the game.

Also, lower education if you have to early, anything to get in budget, as you get better techs and build RR, you will get money. ALWAYS build RR in the same provinve as your factories, the RR increase production and profit. Consider closing factories that don't make money or that lack raw materials, and putting the workers into factories that do make money.

Remember, the game is a marathon, not a sprint.

Qweeg
10-05-2004, 15:11:23
good advises. I couldn't be sure from the manual or the Manual Project whether it only costs 50 canned food and 50 ammunition to increase mob, but what are the money costs if any?

Chris
10-05-2004, 16:07:53
There is no money cost at all.

This was something changed from the early versions, in those, each mobalization increase was 250 canned food and 250 small arms for five devisions. Now, it starts cheap, and increases every time you increase the pool.

Increase that pool if you can, every chance you get. European armies can be large in the game, instanly getting 100 or more devisions may well save you.

Qweeg
10-05-2004, 17:34:04
Over a hundred divisions, and one General. Nice chap, name of Von Herr or something, big mustache, very distinguished.

Interface wise I just wish there were a unified place where I could see which factories are working, and which POPs aren't, and it'd be good if the world market displayed stuff I need to buy (stuff factories are short of) in red or something....

I guess I need five more hours continuous play or so before I feel at home with the interface. Then the fun can really begin.

Chris
10-05-2004, 18:08:03
There is a place to see the factories, page 11 of the summary.

The summary is the second button from the left, at the very bottom of the interface on the far left.

It will show the status off all your factories, how many workers, and if they are profitable.

Qweeg
10-05-2004, 18:17:45
near the box where map-type can be changed I take it? Cheers for the tip.

Chris
10-05-2004, 18:35:13
Yes, below that. The button next to the save button.

Qweeg
14-05-2004, 08:18:14
Wow. I have learnt SO. Much!

This game rocks harder then I had anticipated. Let me tell you aaaaaaaall about it. My second game as Prussia went better then as Mexico, but then I wen't banckrupt again, this is not good for industry, diplomacy or a range of other things that having the contempt of the game leaves you. Then I moved on to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and have been having some really good deep gameplay. I even managed to avoid bankruptcy for a long time, untill a war with Prussia that went well at first, then the Russians interfered and I had to mobilize the whole nation and end the war weeks before I was ready, and gaining far less then I would have gotten had this entirely German dissagreement between Germans (and Austrians, because Austria is kind of the same as Germany, but with Hungary on it) like me, and not anything to do with Russians at all, been left to me to conquor all of... I mean Germans to sort out amongst themselves.

Anyway, last night I finally recoverd Austro-Hungary from bankruptcy, and got it back to positive Prestige. I have Switzerland and Sardinia-Pierdmont as satalittes, as well as Poland, Lithuania and Croatia (which I released). It's almost the 1900s so I don't think I can do anything more significant with this current game. Next stop, Japan!

As you can see I'm quite excited.

maroule
14-05-2004, 08:27:17
:)
japan is hard to develop economically
stick to a reasonably developped country (france, sweden) were you can quickly create cash generating industries (luxury good for examples). At first you need the whole line of production for eg wood - furniture -luxuary furniture, etc but if the world market produces enough furniture later on, just go for luxuary fur. your margin will be good enough

first priority, a paper industry, to start changing (upgrading) your population to an industrial use

Qweeg
14-05-2004, 09:50:17
That's it though, I get the impression that Austo-Hungary is a good strong economy that even I couldn't fuck-up-beyond-all-redemption. I actually had it purring like a slightly wheezy kitten having a nap by the late 1800s, bristling with industries and hungry for resources.

So now I need to play a more economicaly demanding nation in a promising position- like Japan. On the basis of that I can then see how much of South East Asia I can conq- er... I mean liberate from the white man.

Chris
16-05-2004, 14:21:07
Japan is a lot of fun, especially if you get the early Meiji restoration.

One hint, DO NOT accept Holland's tech offer and become their sattelite, it is almost immpossible to escape that once it happens.

Also, think global, Japan can go anywhere any great power goes.

One last thing, try to claim the Marianas and Okinawa, the Marianas is part of the same prefect as Tokyo, and both can have factories.

Qweeg
22-05-2004, 08:23:45
I'm having a really boring game as Japan right now. First time round playing it, Chris advised not to accept the Dutch offer to 'take Japan under their wing', by giving me a load of new technology but making me a satalitte.

So I accepted the Dutch offer of course, really I couldn't turn down all that tech, specially as an 'uncivilised' nation, but this put conciousness up (I like) and militancy too (combined with high conciousness... very baaad) and the country was plunged into so many revolts it effectively became full blown civil war. At one point the rebs took control of the capital and declared a revolution and changed governemnt. The new lot were Liberals, and immediately capped taxes on all three classes, which put the country into debt (damn Liberals). Revolts were still happening though, so I initiated 'Operation Preserve the Army' and did not engage the rebels. Actually I was hoping these guys still revolting, being rightists and aristocrats, would take control of the government again and reinstall the Shogunate Faction (starting government, autocratic, no votes, pro-military reactionary type outfit).

Unfortunately the rebels didn't take the capital, the unrest dividing the country rumbled on and perhaps woyuld go on for years. So I reformed the constitution into Voting Rights for the Wealthy (way more expensive a thing to do then the country could afford but... fighting wasn't helping) because the Japanese wealthy is comprised mostly of aristocrats, effectively it was Voting Rights for the Landed snuck in through the back door.

Had the desired effect, elections came around and the Shogunate was back in charge. A year went by clearing up the nation from Rebel Scum but the economy just continued it's march into the red, and because of Japanse status as uncivilised, lack of machine parts for us to buy, no Freedom of Trade so I could build factories and invest in more turnover in the future... and low prestige putting me way down order of buying (bad for industry) bankruptcy loomed. It's what I call a dead-end game.

So I reloaded and turned down the Ducth offer this time, refusing their envoy I concentrated on balancing and optimising the economy and our modest liquor and glass industries (my Japan basically depends on glass exports, but what if the price of glass drops, what if the UK or China or America start release their spare stocks onto the market, or even worse step-up production!:eek: ).

Now Japan is at 50% tax for all the classes instead of the usual 90 on the poor and 50-70 on the middle and upper. Education spending is at the maximum, crime spending at the maximum, defence and army maintenance at 50, and tariffs at their usual 99 percent. I'm running a nice balance, saving lots, occasionally I release government stocks of sulpher or glass or something onto the world market and get a nice extra zero or so on the savings, and I've paid off the dept. Only problem is... nothing's happening. I don't have any real options to further Japan, I'm way behind in tech, and despite education spending at max I'm only getting 0.06 research points per month, that's 0 RP. Not into colonizing Africa and anyway it's coastal territories are all locked up by the Europeans now, and raising an army to invade Korea is unwise as because we're still uncivilised, the troops would just be native irregulars instead of regular infantry. I can't build the rail-network and improive industrial output coz don't have the tech, can't trade for tech coz no RP...

I'm in a rut, Japan's going nowhere affluently, better then nowhere in debt but... still nowhere. So if anybody's bothered to read this far and has some ideas how to play Japan at this point, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Greg W
22-05-2004, 10:30:14
Can't help ya sorry. I bought the game, but after reading up a bit o it, and happening to get right back into HoI just after I bought it, I spectacularly failed to even install the game. Will undoubtedly get around to it one day tho.

Qweeg
22-05-2004, 10:31:15
then thanks fer nuth'n. :)

ps- play Vicky now!

Greg W
22-05-2004, 11:38:23
Screw you, hippy! ;)

Er, no, I'm waiting for the FA Cup Final. :p

Qweeg
22-05-2004, 12:03:50
I mean now as in at your soonest possible game-playing convenience!

Greg W
22-05-2004, 12:22:30
Ah. Will see how I go. Currently immersed in a game of UFO: Aftermath, and if CK 1.03 comes out, I won't guarantee anything. ;)

Chris
22-05-2004, 14:00:06
When the restoration event kicks in, you will get the same tech levels as the intermediate European states Qweegy, in effect, you get to to catch up with them in one shot.

From that point, you are in great shape, Japan's huge population combined with plentiful coal and Iron allows steel production, and since you have silks and cotten, you can make good money in cloths and fancy colths factories.

Qweeg
22-05-2004, 14:40:24
Excellent.... Excellent.... *hand rubs hand rubs hand rubs*

Qweeg
07-06-2004, 19:39:40
Had some problem with my Jap game unfortunately. The Meiji event kicked in in 1870, and I rushed to catch up, built up the army and invaded Korea, using my usual Principal of Swift & Overwhelming Force I was able to annex it in one go. It was nice to see China's Manchuria open before me ready for the taking *does that Ming the Merciless gloved-fist clenching thing* saved, went to bed. Next day, I couldn't load it up again. After some investigations it turned out I'd run out of adequate space on my puny ickle wittle hard drive (an error message woulda been nice). Anyway, while the cause of the laoding failure was unclear I'd taken a couple weeks off Vicky. Now I'm ready to invade Korea again, save again, and continue Japans march to global pre-eminence.

Chris
07-06-2004, 20:16:02
Paradox saves are gigantic, they eat a tremendous amount of space, and the only way to be rid of them is to delete them manually.

You will have to open up the Viccy files to delete them, but that should give you some extra space.

Qweeg
07-06-2004, 20:50:35
Now ya tell me. ;)

Chris
07-06-2004, 21:08:53
I have a 120 Gig HD, so it doesn't much matter to me, but on my old 5 Gig PC, Paradox games used to eat the memory cap up fast.

Qweeg
07-06-2004, 21:33:56
I've been meaning to get a new HDD for ages now... but my usual slackness has enabled me to muddle along on 4 gigs. Shameful. This might be just what I need to finally sort it out, can't save everything onto CD, well I can but...

Chris
07-06-2004, 21:38:21
It's cheaper in the long run to just get the bigger HD.

That way, if you have crap games and stuff you don't want, you can dump them and not worry about having wasted a CD.

Qweeg
07-06-2004, 21:52:41
Yes, strangely this exact same reasoning has never persuaded me before. Actually I told a little lie in that previous post, I didn't want anyone to know because I thought it'd make me look bad.
I'd cleared out the save directory and tried to load the Jap game, but of course it still wouldn't load because (I now know) that save-game hadn't been saved properly in the first place.

So I started again as China... *for shame to scrap an restart at the first hurdle* and had loads of fun drowning English armies in... the vastness of China, and running what can only be described as a Miracle Economy (I've learnt the economics, bankruptcy? Hah!).

Then the same thing happened again, which really depressed me for awhile there, I'd sit in the corner of my pad staring at my computer in betrayal.

Then I scrapped and restarted again as Sweden *eyes downcaste, for shame* But now I know what's been going wrong, I will complete all the games, starting with Japan. You see, I DO intend to finish the things that I start.

Darkstar
08-06-2004, 02:03:39
4 Gig? Jimminey Crickets, Qweeg! The average new game is now approaching 1.2 gig in HD size! What are you doing, using zip to span CDs when you save things out?

For the games, it's all those graphics. And they don't bother with install small, medium, and large anymore...

Qweeg
13-06-2004, 00:31:03
Japan's coming along nicely, although due to early newbieness I will be unable to achieve anything more then a South Pacific and South East Asian and maybe California too Empire.

I was wondering though... does the Vicky economic system model over-capacity? Take Steel for instance, this is an industry I've been developing, I stopped selling iron on the world market hoping to push up the price of steel a teeny bit (I thought it worked, maybe I was deluding myself and the price just happened to flucture-up abit at that point, I hadn't really been paying attention to it before then).
So anyway now that I own Korea, and have smothered their puny attempts to break free, I started building up the steel industry by building loads of steel factories, untill I no longer had enough of a coal supply left over to feul them. But all these steel factories cost money, and with America and Russia and the British Empire and Germany and the other big players also pouring out steel, and expanding their production, I'm starting to worry that the price of steel will decrease, untill it's no longer making me the profits to cover the cost of all that steel infrastructure in the first place (I'm assuming the price of commodities in the game is linked to supply & demand).

I'm thinking to stop exporting steel and build up artillary and iron-clad industries instead but that will mean even more overheads (sulpher expansion, ammunition, explosive, fertilizer industries) and if the big 8 are chugging steel-based end-products out as well, I might loose so much money I won't be able to afford to build enough of my beautiful divisions to invade California... or any of the other stuff I need to cram into the thirty odd years I've got left. Does the world market reflect overcapacity in the later game? Are prices linked to the demand half of the equation? Can the Market be glutted? (I've noticed stockpiles of some goods, like grain, that don't seem to move very fast).