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View Full Version : CiVIII - Some Comments from an old friend


Resource Consumer
16-11-2001, 01:29:35
I was going to call this comapre and contrast. However, rereading before posting the links it's a bit more like - give the benefit of the doubt and then , oh fuck it they've ballsed again. This is our old friend Darkstar o FFZ, by the way, who is always good for an opinion.

part 1 :

www.freefirezone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=895

and part 2 :

www.freefirezone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1016

Think I'll give the pile of shote a miss myself.

Resource Consumer
16-11-2001, 01:31:50
I think people will work most of my misspelling out and, although it runs on his computer and will probably run on mine, I'll take his advice and wait for bargain bin time.

C.G.B. Spender
16-11-2001, 08:40:17
It's amazing but I COMPLETELY lost the interest in Civ (style games). I'd rather play a game of AOK or Diablo than the old Civ game, and AOK or Diablo is definatly nothing new or more challenging.
The point is: Civ1 = Civ2 = SMAC = Ctp = ToT = CtP2 = Civ3. Like the Tomb Raider series or the MS flight sim. They adjusted details, added some few new features, but: Where are the new ideas? Why not a complete new approach of the war part?

My idea: setting up goals instead of commanding single units. Hold this frontline at any cost. At 50% damage retreat to bunkers and wait for reinforcements. Break through enemy lines and advance. More RTS like Gettysburg. Generals with different skills.
All this micromanagements of single units etc is just annoying. Set up an army and tell the generals what to do. Noo need to jump into a tank.

And the whole diplomacy thingy is extremely boring.

Well, that's wouldn't be Civ any more. But maybe a cool new game!

Noisy
16-11-2001, 09:51:49
On the whole (or rather - the part, because I didn't read right to the end), that looked like a pretty positive review by DS. Of course, I won't be getting the game until I get a m/c upgrade, but after reading that review, I would be encouraged to get it.

Blake
16-11-2001, 11:59:54
I just got the game 2 days ago and so far I've found many disappointing changes and many good changes..

Still the fact is I'm currently having a damn good time playing this game so I guess its not as bad as I thought it would be..

It still needs to be patched though..

Shining1
17-11-2001, 21:16:51
It's not even out in New Zealand...

Sid is scared of me:D.

C.G.B. Spender
18-11-2001, 09:04:14
Let's get back to Diablo 2, site owner ...

Shining1
18-11-2001, 23:08:28
Good idea, site owner!

Resource Consumer
18-11-2001, 23:52:21
I think Blake is about right on this.

For every "improvement" there is something they have fucked with that is a step back.

In spite of my statement above I broke down and bought it. It is not a bad gane but attention grabbing, sorry, no it is not.

Maybe we've just seen it all before?

Greg W
19-11-2001, 23:28:02
Must admit that I am thoroughly enjoying it at the moment. I sort of burned out of Civ II quite some time ago, and SMAC was only fired up every now and then. But I am finding myself replaying Civ III over and over. There's enough changes to make it interesting, though I agree they screwed a few things up. Taking out firepower was a mistake IMO, back to the bad old days of a Phalanx defeating a tank, blech.

However the intro of culture, changes to the terrain model (mining on grassland is actually very useful), better diplomacy (could do with improvement, but it is better), better trade and more reasons to trade...

Dunno, it has me hooked, and I honestly thought I'd burnt out of the genre a while ago.

Resource Consumer
19-11-2001, 23:50:42
Greg,

My problem is twofold with the game.

1. The need to mop up all the techs in an age before restarting again at the next age seems to make the game a bit tedious to me.

2. (maybe allied to that) - the game seems to move damned slowly. It seems to take an age for anything to happen.

I also get annoyed at some dumb bits. For example, playing as the Russian I edit Catherine the Great to be me and change the default title to Czar from Czarina. Then, a way into the game when we are a democracy all my advisors start call ing me "Mrs." No name, nothing just "Mrs". Now, presumably, it is because I havenot entered two names but what are they going to call Catherine "Mrs. the Great". Claudia has competition.:) It's just a bit sloppy for my liking.

The other thing I don't like (apart from missing the Viking and Zulu emissaries) is the dumbing down of the dialogue in the diplomacy scenes. I really don't think Chairman Mao would have said "Uh huh! What you want?" or whatever. It just destroys any atmosphere.

Yes, there are good things but, by and large, its a thumbs down from me.

Greg W
20-11-2001, 01:26:44
IIRC you odn't NEED to mop up all the techs in the old age. For instance once you have discovered Monarchy(?) and Republic, you can merrily move onto the next age ragardless of whether you have discovered every tech in the first age. To be fair there's not a lot of leftover techs in the first age, but I think there's 2 or 3.

So as such you need to decide "do I mop up the remaining few techs before moving to the next age, or power ahead and hope to get the old techs in trade/forget about them". Mind you I haven't played with it that much, so I may be screwing something up there.:rolleyes:

I also find that a game seems to take ages, but I can't figure out why. It's not like there seems so much more to do per turn or anything, and on my Athlon 1200 it doesn't slow down much (at least in the early ages where most of my experimentation is happening). And yet it does seem to take a while to get anywhere. I think I am just spedning too much time looking at things, checking them, looking at reports, etc.

Eh, int he end, it draws me in, but if it doesn't grab you, fair 'nuff. There's always the pub. :beer:

Resource Consumer
20-11-2001, 10:11:18
I'll give it a bit more of a go but the pub lis looking increasinglky attractive.

"IIRC you odn't NEED to mop up all the techs in the old age. For instance once you have discovered Monarchy(?) and Republic, you can merrily move onto the next age ragardless of whether you have discovered every tech in the first age. To be fair there's not a lot of leftover techs in the first age, but I think there's 2 or 3."

OK, I could be wrong here but I always have had to do it but maybe I just wasn't clicking right. I shall investigate some more.

The other thing that annoys me is the extra clicking. For example, when you have got a new tech and can choose the next one you can't just click on "Yeah, great" or "Show me the big picture" but you have to click on another icon as well - a bit unnecessary but that sort of thing seems to be through the game (and don't get me starter about the dangers of clicking on the wrong thing in the diplomacy screen).

The other thing - who thinks the science advisor looks like Sid.:)

Greg W
21-11-2001, 00:10:42
The other thing that annoys me is the extra clicking. For example, when you have got a new tech and can choose the next one you can't just click on "Yeah, great" or "Show me the big picture" but you have to click on another icon as well - a bit unnecessary but that sort of thing seems to be through the game (and don't get me starter about the dangers of clicking on the wrong thing in the diplomacy screen).

Actually, if you click on an option, it will highlight it. Click on a highlighted option and it will be process that option (as if you had clicked on the little round button).

Oh, I am sure that the science advisor is Sid. How he let them get away with that is beyond me, maybe he thought it was somewhat flattering. :rolleyes:

Resource Consumer
21-11-2001, 09:11:10
Originally posted by Greg W


Actually, if you click on an option, it will highlight it. Click on a highlighted option and it will be process that option (as if you had clicked on the little round button).

Oh, I am sure that the science advisor is Sid. How he let them get away with that is beyond me, maybe he thought it was somewhat flattering. :rolleyes:

LOL.

The trouble is you need to click twice in that dialogue when, given it is non-life threatening one click would have sufficed.

I checked the tech tree thing again last night - it did make me dust off all techs even after I had monarchy, republic (and I also got the other one with the blue circle on it - in case that was significant). I had a couple of others to get and I couldn't research feudalism or whatever it is.

I am playing with the default rules - I wonder if there is an option somewhere?

Greg W
21-11-2001, 22:13:14
Dunno, I have never paid any attention to it, so I am not sure. I am sure I read somewhere that you can do it tho...

Resource Consumer
22-11-2001, 00:06:52
I have decided that tech doesn't matter.

It seems loaded some how against investigative and scientific types.

All you do is set tech to 10%, because having an infinite chance of discovering another tech is dumb and it make piss all financial difference, and just go out and trade. With all that dosh you are making then you can't fail to find friends.

OK, you never lead tech but you are the leader in aggregate as you trade with all (on the assumption that not all AI opponents have the same research pattern).

In CivII and SMAC you could sort of play isolationist - here you can't. However, I think they have removed the returns to research apart from particular cases.

No research rules.

The dumest buys the mostest - as my great heroes the Dead Kennedys once said ("MTV Get Off the Air").

Greg W
22-11-2001, 21:25:00
Discovered how progressing to the next age works last night. The techs that you DON'T need to research are the ones with the little stop signs on them. Anything that has no stop-sign must be researched in order to move onto the next age. So you don't have to get Monarchy and Republic should you not want to.

Playing on a tiny map last night with 16 civs I discovered that you can also play a game of being the science bloke, and not worrying about gold too much. Basically sell off older techs to fund your treasury while keeping a negative cashflow. Interesting how the game can be played in different ways.

Resource Consumer
23-11-2001, 00:11:53
Greg,

Thanks for that. Looks like I had it backwards:o

So if I get all the things apart from those that are really useful to progress, I can progress. Typical Firaxis arse about face reasoning.

I may be dumb but I can't find any reference anywhere to how tech progression works. Too much of course for the Game Gods to tell us.

Frankly, I am finding it hard to keep up in science so I have junked it almost entirely. I just max out gold and buy everything. Clearly, I never become a tech leader but then again I ain't a science patsy either.

However, there are aspects to this that allow it to grow on me - I am still negative but not rabidly so.

Depends on how this current game develops, I suppose.;)

Resource Consumer
23-11-2001, 00:13:11
BTW, how do you get 16 civs. I haven't found an option for this (pommie dumbness again) or is it a file edit?

Snapcase
23-11-2001, 00:23:47
Play on a large or huge map.

Resource Consumer
23-11-2001, 00:33:03
Ah, thanks. So that is an option on larger than standard which is all I have the patience to play.

Thanks, that was puzzling me a bit (although the restriction is pretty logical).

Greg W
23-11-2001, 01:06:38
I actually used the editor to create a tiny world, and set the number of civs to 16. Was pretty easy, just generate a random map (which you can't see much of cos they don't have a zoom function), edit the number of civs, save as a scenario, and off you go.

I believe that you can also generate a random map from that scenario, as when I started it, it asked if I wanted to go into world generation. I declined though, so not 100% sure how that works.

I should explain the research thing a bit better too. You'll notice that the tech tree has various paths. If that path ends in a tech with a little stop sign, you don't have to research that path at all for all I know of (except for techs that are pre-reqs for ones not on dead-end paths). The paths that you do have to research are those that end with a tech with no little stop-sign.

I think you got that, but I thought I'd make myself a bit clearer. :)

But what it does mean is that if you so desired, you could research straight for Republic and then go the necessary techs, ignoring the Monarchy branch of research alltogether. If you're not going to use it, why bother with it, plus you can always trade to fill in the gaps.

Best thing about my game last night - I got the only saltpeter that I am aware of, yay. Haven't reached oil yet though, interesting to see if I find any. I have so far been undertaking a policy of culture absorbing nearby cities. Works over the water too, which is cool. Also built a Forbidden Palace - helps a lot to offset corruption. Just takes ages to build with only 1 shield. :rolleyes:

Only annoying thing: despite having viable trade routes with opposition civs, none of them have any luxuries or resources to trade. Fortunately I have saltpeter, 3 x Iron and a horse so I haven't needed to so far.

No longer Trippin
28-11-2001, 19:48:52
Don't buy the game until the first patch is out and it is confirmed that it works. It's a great game, don't get me wrong, just that learning to manage the headaches is the biggest pain. I've gotten past that part, modded it so it isn't geared for the stupid play (no more cavalry kiling tanks, unless you have a shitload of of cavalry, etc.). The AI is great (for the type of game it is). It is FAR better AI wise than smac. Can't even compare it. If you wall of an isthmus, it will send boats around, etc. It just can't defend worth a shit in the modern age. Land three mech infantry ona mountain, watch the ENTIRE fucking continent's attack oriented units attack that mountain in one turn due to rails. They all die too. Rathetr amusing, if not sad. Who the fuck playtest shit over there.

The game itself was done as best as any game coudl have been done without playtesting, it just wasn't playtested... jkm should be fired.

Darkstar
30-11-2001, 09:32:42
Greg, you could mine plains in SMAC. They left it in for Civ3. Too bad they didn't leave in SMAC's type of allies...

RC, if you are trading like that, you should always WIN. I've found the AI gives WAY too much good will weight to trades.