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Qweeg
14-03-2004, 14:17:01
Okay, I' am belatedly about to go an acquire this game, after avoiding it and EU1 for ages because I was put off by the Ye Olde Timee Eurocentricness and lack of mechanical war-machines.
But I really value any strategy game that can model civil-war, economics, diplomacy and politics well, and I hear EU1 and 2 does that.

What are your thoughts on EU2, and are there any other strategy games out there you'd recommend that are also really enjoyably and challengingly deep? (don't tell me about SMACX, Civ3, CTP2Apolypack).

Qweeg
14-03-2004, 16:33:15
I've been reading up on this game, and now I'm even more surprised I didn't get into it sooner, I have a question though; (bearing in mind I haven't yet bought or run the game) why can't it play into the modern age, the mechanics seem generally compatible... why does it stop at 1820?

maroule
14-03-2004, 16:55:22
because that's why Victoria, the follow up, does

if you like a more complex economic & trade system, in the context of transition from monarchies to democracies, Victoria is very good. Not flawless, but I had a month of fun playing it

Qweeg
14-03-2004, 17:14:43
Hadn't heard of Victoria untill now (or I auto-blanked it's adverts). You see.... that's why I started this thread:), cheers Marle.

Qweeg
14-03-2004, 17:32:22
Okay, my research has turned up Europa Univesalis 2, Victoria, and Hearts of Iron (all based on the same engine)

Which one's the best?

I'm really intrigued by Hearts of Iron, but kind of annoyed at why they can't just have had the game open-ended, why does everything with these sodding Strategy First people have to be from Year This to Year That. I WANT TO PLAY INDEFINATELY DAMNIT!:mad:

Greg W
14-03-2004, 21:43:08
Different themes, different games, though similar in a lot of ways.

HoI I found a lot different to EUI/II in a lot of ways, though it has been that long since I played it that I'd be hard pressed to come up with just why now. I did buy Victoria, but must admit to not having even unwrapped it yet (got caught up in other games).

They're going to do a "for dummies" version soon, set in medieval times, for those that aren't interested in the nitty gritty that HoI, EUI/II and Vic simulate.

Hmm, if you want to play indefinately, maybe Rise of Nations (haven't played it personally) might be the go. Not as deep as what you seem to be looking for though, I don't think.

Sorry, can't help you a heck of a lot there. Not sure if there's a game quite like what you're after (open ended EU basically). Oh, and if you're wondering why they'r enot open ended, I believe that it's because of the scripted events. Each country has historical scripted events that reflect real world events, and your decisions effect your country in the game. Depending on the country, there can be quite a few events, and trying to keep that level of interactivity over more than a hundred years or so would be a bit of a pain I'd imagine.

Qweeg
15-03-2004, 07:58:22
Fair enough, although as a purist, I think a good single player strategimizer should stand well enough on its own without scripting, but so long as there's a good campaign editor...

I'm now tempted to buy HoI, but the reviews I've read so far have been quite negative.

fp@korea
15-03-2004, 08:22:54
The release version of HoI was majorly bugged, which contributed to the negative reviews. There have been patches since so hopefully most of the game has been fixed now.

Greg W
15-03-2004, 09:04:31
AFAIk the worst thing for you is that I have never heard of a demo for any of the games. I ended up *ahem* borrowing a copy to try them out, as they weren't even available for sale in Australia.

Qweeg
15-03-2004, 13:37:20
Damn! I read and read and so far I'm completely unsure which game to buy. EU2 seems to be the best and most stable in the opinion of many, HoI seems to be my kind of game in principal- but screwed up implementation, buggy, too short a time span and too much ineffectual micro-management options, and Victoria seems to be a halway house but with it's own shortcomings re the economy model. Not having played a single one of them I find it very hard to decide which one to start with, probably I'll go for...... EU2.

maroule
15-03-2004, 13:43:28
I'm sure you can get EU1 on a very low budget : it's very close to EU2, where the main advantage is to play nations as ethiopia, incas, etc. (but boring in practice).

if not HoI did get a lot of patches and is now stable.
Victoria is fun too, as I mentionned

whatever you do, check the forums at paradox, plenty of good posts explain how to go around for beginners

Chris
15-03-2004, 17:23:09
HoI still has major problems, the US and Japanese AI don't fight each other, and there are still other issues.

Victoria is now on it's third patch, but it is the best of the lot.

I'm due to get the 'simple' one, "Two Thrones," for review soon.

EU 2 is well worth it, pick it up if you can find it.

Qweeg
15-03-2004, 19:52:21
When you say 'best of the lot' about Victoria, do you mean- of that games patches or of all of Paradox's offerings so far?

Chris
15-03-2004, 20:05:31
I prefer Victoria, it has a VERY complex economic model, and you can forget taking over the world, it won't happen.

The AI nations will fight back, no matter what nation you select.

With EU and HoI, you can pretty much take the world if you understand the game system. hoI is a lot of fun, don't be turned off to it, but I warn you, you MUST patch these games, HoI won't run 'out of the box' very well, Vicky will, as will EU2, but patched they play better.

I did review Victoria for my site if you want to get an idea of the game Qweegy.
http://www.strategyinformer.com/reviews/victoriaempireunderthesun.shtml

Greg W
16-03-2004, 07:21:03
Qweeg, stop being a girl and changing your mind a million times, or merely window shopping for 12 months straight. Do the manly thing, and go out and impulse buy one of them, dammit. :p

HoI and EU/EU2 are both fun, in their own ways. One's primarily a WWII simulation, the other a more medieval simulation. Pick your fave and go get it man. :beer:

Oh, if you choose to buy EU, don't try playing as Britain first off the bat. It's too danged hard for a newbie. Play something else a little more out of the way where you can experiment quite a bit.

Qweeg
16-03-2004, 13:34:04
Okay, I went out and bought EU2. I decided not to buy Victoria out of principal, because of what it represents (colonialism, imperialism, manifest destiny etc).

Then I figured I'd buy Victoria anyway and play it in secret, because of what it represents (deep strategic gameplay). But I couldn't find Victoria anywhere, likewise Hearts of Iron. I was lucky just to have found Europa Universalis 2!

So, I'll be getting into EU2. Thanks for the advise guys.

maroule
16-03-2004, 13:38:35
you can play any nation in Victoria, so you can kick the imperialists too (mainly with China, though, and only by being imperialistic yourself)

Resource Consumer
17-03-2004, 01:20:30
KWIG - DUDE

HOI sucks. EU II is about the best strategy game ever.

Now, why do I say that? Honestly, they have much the same engine but, somehow, I could never get into HoI. The pacing of the engine never felt right nor did the tactical attack timing. Also, you have very much a "fait accompli" given the time span and the politics of the game.

It is unfair to HoI but ask yourself - do you like STRATEGY? If YES then, OVER A BIG TIME RUN? And you want to make big SWEEPING strategic decisions. If so, then EU II is the game. I recommend without reservation. (Notice, I have some DARKSTAR CAPITALS here)

It seems to me that HoI is a heap of shit milking the same vein. Chris wrote a decent review of Victoria (linked to from here somewhere) and I don't dissent from the substance there and maybe that game treads nicely between the two extremes (although Chris says it is better than both) but I am a little suspicious that the engine transports itself badly forward in time. That said, I am prepared to give Viccy a go but I think EUII is the yardstick against which it should be judged and not HoI.

Qweeg
17-03-2004, 12:32:22
Great review Chris:b, although it didn't tell me if religion is still a factor in Victoria. So far in my EU2 games, I'm splashing around trying to figure out the interface, certainly completley different from anything I've played before. Wish a manual came with it, hopefully there's strategy guides out there somewhere. But I can see why you're a fan of EU2 RC, there's a good mix of game-play type things here.

Resource Consumer
17-03-2004, 14:12:17
I think it is one of the best ganes ever. I haven't seen a strat guide. I would suggest that it is better to start playing as, say, Muscovy and get the land based things sorted before playing, say, Portugal and messing around in boats with loads of colonists

Chris
17-03-2004, 14:58:05
Originally posted by Qweeg
Great review Chris:b, although it didn't tell me if religion is still a factor in Victoria. So far in my EU2 games, I'm splashing around trying to figure out the interface, certainly completley different from anything I've played before. Wish a manual came with it, hopefully there's strategy guides out there somewhere. But I can see why you're a fan of EU2 RC, there's a good mix of game-play type things here. Religion is a factor in Victoria, preists make the peasants happy, but piss off capitalists and factory workers.

Also, their is an excellent chance that you can push any government into a communist revolution if you make the right choices.

Nationality also matters, for example, Europe can't build factories in Africa unless the population there becomes the same as the given Euro country, and this doesn't happen. The same is true for the far east also, colonies only give raw materials, not finished products, major issues in the game, as is tax rates and economics.

Greg W
18-03-2004, 08:43:56
Doesn't come with a manual? :eek:

I have a 607k PDF copy of one if you want it. PM me your email address and I can send it to you. It's really a must have, cos it's got 69 pages. 69, dude! ;)

Greg W
18-03-2004, 08:46:14
Or of course you could just download it from Replacement Docs (http://www.replacementdocs.com/docs/PC/index.php?skip=200).

Public AE
19-03-2004, 09:49:13
EU2 forum, if you havent found it yourself already. learned quite a bit about the game and how it works by just reading the general threads. are loads of more or less advanced faqs and guides as well.

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

Qweeg
19-03-2004, 10:41:31
Originally posted by Greg W
Doesn't come with a manual? :eek:

I have a 607k PDF copy of one if you want it. PM me your email address and I can send it to you. It's really a must have, cos it's got 69 pages. 69, dude! ;)

Thanks for the link mate.

I've been finding it kind of difficult to get into EU2 now because I keep wondering what I'm missing in Victoria... for chrissakes, curse my grass-is-greener tendency of looking at things. I'm just going to have to risk internet commerce and acquire that game too, curse it's come-hither-to-my-harddrive politicaly incorrect but deeply strategic whiles.

In Europa Universalis 2, I am having a really big problem with inflation... I mean a REALLY fucking big problem with inflation.
251%, is that bad?

My first serious game playing as the French (in the Grand Campaign) I concentrated on unifying France to look like it does today, in the hope of then going on a great big Napoleonic Butt-Kick across Europe and the muslim world (they don't like me anyway, and come the Reformation or whatever, I intend to go Protestant to increase my inovativeness rating, stick one to the Aristocracy, and indulge in some serious catholic-sphere land-grabbing).

Anyway, inflation keeps sky-rocketing, my money becomes worthless, (it's wheel-barrows of cash for a loaf of bread time again) and the nation hops from one bankruptcy crisis to another... twice a year now. My last fuck-this-I'm-loading-autosave happened when a major civil war broke out, it's frustrating coz there's only a few more provinces left to conquer. Even if not for the money problems, all the other obscure little medieval nations like those Burgandy bastards of the Hated Inglees keep declaring war on me everytime I try to have a private little none-of-anybody-elses-business war with Burdoigne (or whatever they call themselves). Yeah, I know about bad boy, but still.

I hate inflation, and I don't know how to fight it yet, keeping the treasury slider to the absolute left keeps it rising at 0.00%, but bringing it down... bah. But I've really enjoyed posting my EU2 troubles... actually I really do feel like playing more now!:)

maroule
19-03-2004, 10:58:28
eh eh
close to the historical standards : in the 1770's we tried a monetary reform wunder the supervision of scot sheep shagger J. Law and it went really really pear shaped...

Greg W
20-03-2004, 03:51:15
It's been a long time since I played, but you can build mayors or something that reduce inflation (at least temporarily anyway). I think you need to build certain buildings to be able to promote a mayor. Or something.

From memory though, adjusting your tax rate form the beginning of the game to provide only minimal inflation is the best way. As is keeping good stability (gives bonuses to your economy IIRC).

Greg W
20-03-2004, 03:56:20
Oh yeah, and provinces that supply gold are very bad for inflation too.

Public AE
21-03-2004, 11:59:45
Originally posted by Greg W
It's been a long time since I played, but you can build mayors or something that reduce inflation (at least temporarily anyway). I think you need to build certain buildings to be able to promote a mayor. Or something.

From memory though, adjusting your tax rate form the beginning of the game to provide only minimal inflation is the best way. As is keeping good stability (gives bonuses to your economy IIRC).

yes, promoting mayors to guvernors partly reduce inflation, need infra tech to do that though. Think one is supposed to always keep the slider at 0.00 and never mint to avoid inflation, one has to rely on yearly income, slower but in the end its profitable. not to mention all the tech you recieve from pouring money into research.