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Lazarus and the Gimp
12-03-2004, 17:47:59
Anyone read this? I had a quick browse in the shop today and was startled to see that it reads like a novel-length post by Jon Miller.

alsieboo
16-03-2004, 01:24:44
no, but i'll be sure to look out for it

Rodgers
16-03-2004, 11:52:41
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
a novel-length post by Jon Miller.

:nervous:

Venom
16-03-2004, 14:17:15
I'd rather get punched in the nuts 15 times than read it then.

QtFLW@Work
16-03-2004, 16:14:04
That can be arranged.

Venom
16-03-2004, 16:15:27
Stop thinking about how you can touch my balls.

QtFLW@Work
16-03-2004, 19:11:50
I said I'd arrange it, not do it.

Even I have limits. The eyestrain just from looking for them might kill a man.

The Bursar
22-03-2004, 23:30:28
I read it last week. It reads - as it was intended to - like it was written by a kid with Aspergers. Now ask yourself: would you expect a kid with Aspergers to write a good book? Quite.

King_Ghidra
23-03-2004, 12:57:44
i wouldn't have any expectations of the quality of a book produced by someone with asperger's, any more than i would have expectations of the quality of a book prodcued by someone who doesn't

what is your point?

The Bursar
24-03-2004, 00:07:55
Maybe 'good' was a poor choice of word.

a) a kid. I think its fair to say that in general a child would tend to produce a poorer book than an adult, no?
A child's (though an intelligent child's) writing style is used throughout. The sentences are short and uncomplicated. It is a simple book. This doesn't make it a bad book, but it gets pretty annoying.

b) with Aspergers. Ok, maybe I was unfair. But (to quote) "he doesn't understand people" - which would make writing with any level of subtly quite difficult. Characterisation is difficult because the only glimpses of people's character is through their actions within the very short timescale of the story. All judgements on emotion, feeling and lying are qualified with "I know this because...". He can't lie, so the plot feels rigidly realistic, the ending is wholly unsatisfactory because it has to be true. But also it means that it is written largely as a string of facts: the narrative is very straightforward.

Its quite an interesting writing style, but I'm glad it was a fairly short book, put it that way.

King_Ghidra
24-03-2004, 12:53:26
i'll admit, i was playing devil's advocate, that's what i hoped you meant

i saw a review which said very much what you have said

the only thing i can think of that is similar is the first part of The Sound And The Fury, which is written from the perspective of a retarded adult who has the mental age of a child.

Rodgers
24-03-2004, 14:17:07
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
the only thing i can think of that is similar is the first part of The Sound And The Fury, which is written from the perspective of a retarded adult who has the mental age of a child.


So that's what Beckham called his autobiography?

Noisy
24-03-2004, 16:09:20
c.f. 'Flowers for Algernon'

King_Ghidra@home
22-05-2004, 16:31:20
Got round to reading this book on holiday - brilliant. Leant it to the missus and she read it in one day - couldn't put it down, as they say.

I heartily recommend it.

If i had to say one thing about why it is so good without giving too much away, it is that after reading this, it is us 'normal' people and our behaviour that come across as absurd, not the behaviour of the asperger's sufferers. Very enlightening and thought-provoking.

BigGameHunter
22-05-2004, 18:11:15
"Catcher in the Rye" for modern times, eh?
Holden Caufield's mental state seemed to be in the 6-10 year old range.

Tizzy
23-05-2004, 12:37:53
Read this a couple of weeks ago and I thought it was brilliant too. It's the first book I've read in a while that I was actually disappointed to finish, I wanted to keep reading and find out what else happened.

Funko
16-08-2005, 09:09:59
I'm half way through and really enjoying it. :beer:

Nills Lagerbaak
16-08-2005, 10:11:02
Yeah, it's a great book! It's just supposed to be about a kid with emotional problems though. Doesn't specify what sort, and I thought he had elements of autism...

Either way the kid reminded me off my old buddy Mark Green.
I didn't think I'd react this way but at times I wanted to "beat some emotional sense" into the boy. I mean I did appreciate why "normal" peoples' behaviours can be confusing, but is that really any reason to 'start rocking back and forward doing that annoying thing he does......

See, I really never thought I'd make me react this way!

Funko
16-08-2005, 10:13:00
Aspergers is generally considered to be a more mild form of Autism...

Funko
16-08-2005, 10:13:53
And Mark Green definitely had it to some degree. Looking back on it he was textbook.

Nills Lagerbaak
16-08-2005, 10:16:04
Yeah, I agree. Without a doubt. I mean I went with him to see some child psychiatrist when I was little (think she wanted him to bring a friend kind of thing). They didn't really know what it was then but he was typical, definitely

Funko
16-08-2005, 10:19:33
In contrast to you I find myself getting more angry at the people who don't understand him not at him for being like he is, after all he can't help it.

Nills Lagerbaak
16-08-2005, 10:54:14
Yeah, I'd never get angry at him....

I'm not expert on all these things, but that bit in CIDN where he gets all confused and angry about the guy who says "quid" instead of "sterling" or something like that. Surely that's not an emotional matter, and can be learned like anything else.

To be honest it's been a while since I read it and I have forgotten most of it !

Venom
16-08-2005, 13:49:57
Ahhhhh Aspergers!!!!!

The Norks
17-08-2005, 00:17:06
Is Mark Green ginger mark? Or am I getting confused?

The Norks
17-08-2005, 00:32:22
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Yeah, I'd never get angry at him....

I'm not expert on all these things, but that bit in CIDN where he gets all confused and angry about the guy who says "quid" instead of "sterling" or something like that. Surely that's not an emotional matter, and can be learned like anything else.

To be honest it's been a while since I read it and I have forgotten most of it !

The crux of Asperger's is that the people who have it can't detect or analyse emotional responses like other people, and they attach meanings and responses to things that other people don't. They form routines and habits that are frustrating to ther people because they seem nitpicky or dumb. Depending on how far they have Asperger's they can leran a certain amount but I think its a bit like always being the other side of a glass wall, they can never fully comprehend 'normalcy' and we can't comprehend why they do what they do.

The guy I know with it has certain tidying routines and always eats the same thing for dinner. He's pretty high functioning and you can barely detect it because he's so polite, its only when you get to know him that you realise he has all these weird obsessions (cars, films and porn) and habits (has to have his DVD's organised a particular way etc) and he behaves oddly. Like he compulsively lies about really stupid things. Its usually small stuff but when our dad died he told us a couple of weeks after that his dad had died, and was crying and everything- we found out about two weeks later it was bollocks as his dad turned up at his house, and then he couldnt explain why he said it. It drives us nuts sometimes but he's got better as he's got older. He doesn't understand social cues like when other people are talking you dont talk over them- he just talks louder and stuff like that. On the flipside he has a heart of gold and is a soppy sod, and one of the most truly funny people I've ever met when he's on form.

One of the leading experts in the field call's asperger's 'extreme male syndrome' because he argues that the symptoms like not understanding emotions and having obsessive collections or hobies etc, often based around numbers or machines, not being able to process multiple bits of info at once etc are extreme forms of typical male behaviour. He also says that by extension, all men may be somewhat autistic. He is investigating links to the Y chromosome. Its an interesting theory. Very few women have it.

he also reckons many highly intelligent people have or had it, like Einstein, because their minds develop to process complex bits of info the rest of us can't and they can see patterns and correlations we cant etc. The obsessive interest in their subject is also usually characteristic. I think it was Michaelangelo he says was a likely candidate, as when he was told his mother had died he barely responded and carried on with his work.

Funko
17-08-2005, 09:17:12
Originally posted by The Norks
Is Mark Green ginger mark? Or am I getting confused?

Nah, someone we were at school with that you don't know.

Ginger Mark was at school with Gareth and Austin at the posh rich kids school.

King_Ghidra
17-08-2005, 09:23:01
still it's funny that the norks thought he might have apserger's :lol:

Funko
17-08-2005, 09:24:36
:D

Actually that reminds me, he won a writing competition for the BBC and his prize was to get some time with someone there to help develop his idea into a short script.

I am supposed to be reading his latest draft and giving him feedback.

Fergus & The Brazen Car
17-08-2005, 10:11:05
Originally posted by Rodgers
So that's what Beckham called his autobiography?


'How I didn't Get Past Janet and John Book 1 But Still Made Millions Looking Like A Blond Thai LadyBoy Married To An Anorexic Talentless Tranny With An Obvious Boobjob'

Nills Lagerbaak
17-08-2005, 10:38:39
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
still it's funny that the norks thought he might have apserger's :lol:

Yeah, that is funny as hell! :lol:

Norks it's not Aspergers, just Gingitis (a subtle difference I admit...)


Thanks for the explanation Norks, it's very interesting that it's been nicknamed by some as extreme male syndrom, I never thought of it like that, and it makes a lot of sense!

Maybe like paranoid psychosis is extreme female syndrom :p

Gary
17-08-2005, 11:18:43
It's a children's book, no wonder it reads like a novel-length post by Jon Miller :D

Beta1
17-08-2005, 11:49:32
Originally posted by The Norks
He's pretty high functioning and you can barely detect it because he's so polite, its only when you get to know him that you realise he has all these weird obsessions (cars, films and porn)

well thats most of the male population then!

Lazarus and the Gimp
17-08-2005, 20:10:22
I was about to pick up on that too. Surely any degree of interest in that trio is entirely justified?

The Norks
18-08-2005, 00:24:14
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
still it's funny that the norks thought he might have apserger's :lol:

well actually I was thinking 'I never noticed anything weird about him' but then I only met him a couple of times lol. Hence the question.

The Norks
18-08-2005, 00:26:09
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Yeah, that is funny as hell! :lol:

Norks it's not Aspergers, just Gingitis (a subtle difference I admit...)


Thanks for the explanation Norks, it's very interesting that it's been nicknamed by some as extreme male syndrom, I never thought of it like that, and it makes a lot of sense!

Maybe like paranoid psychosis is extreme female syndrom :p

hey I didn't make it up, its a guy called Baron-Cohen who's the leading authority in this country on this subject (I'm guessing he's some relation to Ali G)

I just read up a lot about it out of interest. Blame Rain Man.

The Norks
18-08-2005, 00:34:18
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
I was about to pick up on that too. Surely any degree of interest in that trio is entirely justified?

well this is what Baron Cohen is saying isn't it? That normal 'male' hobbies are mildly autistic and/or that autism takes these interests to the extreme. its just one theory, but its certainly interesting. More so in women who have it I think because his theory seems a bit redundant there. He has a whole website about it.

Darren isn't interested to a degree, he's compulsively cataloguing stuff, which is different. He has an almost photographic memory for the details of films he's seen and things like that. He's a very borderline case I would think as he can function pretty much as a 'normal person' and its more his social side that you notice it in. But even so, half an hour with him and you know he's 'different' although it hard to locate how.

I have an autistic interest in autism lol

Immortal Wombat
18-08-2005, 00:41:14
Originally posted by The Norks
hey I didn't make it up, its a guy called Baron-Cohen who's the leading authority in this country on this subject (I'm guessing he's some relation to Ali G)
Uncle.