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View Full Version : Listen Without Prejudice 6 - Part 2


Scabrous Birdseed
10-03-2004, 20:10:15
http://www.counterglow.com/article.php?id=lwp6_2

Funkodrom
10-03-2004, 20:56:12
Silent Running is one of my favourite films too. I'll have to pick up the DVD.

protein
10-03-2004, 21:09:44
So the deadline had passed then. Nobody told me. :(

protein
10-03-2004, 21:12:25
Hey, you've seen the Wicker Man now! Cool.

protein
10-03-2004, 21:13:51
When you lot were talking about Silent Running I thought you meant that Jamaican bobsleigh film. :lol:

Scabrous Birdseed
10-03-2004, 21:14:25
Originally posted by protein
So the deadline had passed then. Nobody told me. :(

.
.
:rolleyes:
*beats head with plastic bottle*

protein
11-03-2004, 00:25:07
I got the CD about six months ago. I can't believe we set a deadline for the first one so far off into the future. It only takes a minute to realise whether you like a track so we could have done the whole thing in the first week.

Having said that, I've actually been to busy to listen to all the others, I've only listened to the first seven.

BigGameHunter
11-03-2004, 00:33:45
First of all, thanks for stopping by the music forum, Protein!
:)

Second of all, I feel perfectly vindicated in liking bands like Pavement et. al now, as I used to be perplexed and somewhat embarassed by the Euro disdain for this sound--but it is all completely clear to me know: YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE!
So much for thinking you were cool and hip and knowledgeable just because you're foreign!!! Hahahahahahahahaahbwhahaahahaha!
Not knowing who the Beatles are for Christ's sake? That's akin to US student knowledge of world geography: totally laughable and shameful!!!
If you don't know your past, how can you truly appreciate the present!?! My lord...a Swede and a Yank knew...horrible...simply horrible.

BigGameHunter
11-03-2004, 00:45:11
Laz...I may still give that band a go...just kind of didn't like the singer's voice all that much.

Debaser
11-03-2004, 00:58:13
*shocked*

What rock have you people been living under not to recognise one of the Beatles most famous tracks???

protein
11-03-2004, 01:09:41
Don't lump me in with all those people for god's sake. When I heard it on the CD I congratulated Gramercy Riffs on a fine choice of track but it turned out not to be his. Actually, neither did the MMJ track. hmm. I have no idea what he contributed.

It doesn't surprise me about the Beatles thang. Some people only listen to one or two types of music and anything old just isn't hip unless it's trashy Nu Noik bands.

When's the next deadline then peeps. I want back in if I'm allowed.

Debaser
11-03-2004, 01:16:58
The MMJ track was Dan's.

Jon Miller part Deux
11-03-2004, 01:34:14
I am a little out of the whole music thing

I have never really listened to the Beatles much, but have liked them when they were put on

(that reminds me, I was listening tos omething I had never heard before, said it was pretty good who is it, it was the Grateful Dead)

a little weird since my Dad was a beatles fan, but he did throw away all his records (he had them all) when I was like 2

JOn Miller

Funkodrom
11-03-2004, 10:45:37
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
Second of all, I feel perfectly vindicated in liking bands like Pavement et. al now, as I used to be perplexed and somewhat embarassed by the Euro disdain for this sound--but it is all completely clear to me know: YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE!

I'm crap on song names but I knew it was the Beatles and what album it was on.

Pavement... well... a lot of people here like Pavement and I bought Slanted & Enchanted in FOPP to see what the fuss was about. It takes me about half an album to get into the frame of mind where I can understand it.

That might be a good song if they weren't torturing that poor guitar and forcing it to make such hideous sounds. :(

King_Ghidra
11-03-2004, 15:14:01
given as i didn't get round to posting my reviews in...

well tomorrow never knows was always one of my favourite beatles tracks. But the best thing i ever heard about it was that when the chemical brothers played it at a DJ night they were doing several years ago during the rise of the 'big beat' phenomenon, people were coming up to them and asking them when they were going to release 'their new track' :D

and i really liked the pavement track

mike what exactly is it that you don't 'understand' about pavement? how to put the cd in the drive?

don't you just like, listen to it - and either like it or not?

Funkodrom
11-03-2004, 15:55:56
It's just really hard to listen to. Everything sounds wrong at first. Like Captain Beefheart.

Funkodrom
11-03-2004, 15:56:58
Mostly it's to much effort and I'd rather actually listen to something good.

King_Ghidra
11-03-2004, 16:28:48
note for future reference:
phrases like 'It takes me about half an album to get into the frame of mind where I can understand it.' are just euphemisms for 'it's shit, i only bought it because someone recommended it to me and i feel i should listen to it out of some desperate attempt to claw back the money i wasted on it'

Funkodrom
11-03-2004, 16:33:21
Yeah, Pavement is total shit unfortunately. Captain Beefheart is good though.

BigGameHunter
11-03-2004, 16:57:30
God give me the strength not to rolleyes.

Ever heard of Pedro the Lion? If you don't like them, I just don't understand.

Funkodrom
11-03-2004, 16:59:34
Is he a childrens entertainer?

Funkodrom
11-03-2004, 17:00:24
I really don't understand how anyone can listen to Pavement without adjusting their brain so it's not screaming "Why do they deliberately make everything sound shit!!! ARGH!!! THOSE BASTARDS!!!"

King_Ghidra
11-03-2004, 17:05:23
because for a lot of people, some meaningless concept of sound quality is less important than an appreciation of the interesting sounding music that results from it

King_Ghidra
11-03-2004, 17:06:41
and frankly the point at which you think shit like that is important is the point at which you have ceased to be rock on any acceptable level

The Shaker
11-03-2004, 17:11:31
that would ahve been 1992 then ;)

Funkodrom
11-03-2004, 17:17:24
Are you trying to say that you think that production is completely irrelevant to the quality of the music? I don't see how you can seperate the two. The production is as much an artistic statement as the chords or lyrics.

I said I thought it was a half decent song underneath, I just hate the way they produced it and, for me, it ruins the song and I have the same problem with all their stuff. But, if I spend a while tuning my brain to ignore all the grating annoyances with production I find that their tunes are actually pretty decent, which makes it even more annoying.

protein
11-03-2004, 17:45:52
The thing is that they would have recorded it all clean and then deliberately made it sound crap. Absurd if you ask me.

King_Ghidra@home
11-03-2004, 17:51:42
what i'm saying is yours and protein's definition of crap sounding is one which applies mainly to muso types like yourself who have lost sight of the fact that to a lot of people whether a sound is pleasing or displeasing is in no way connected to some absurd concept of 'clean'.

if you accept that production is an artistic choice then dismissing it as crap just means you're missing the whole point of that decision

protein
11-03-2004, 18:02:21
'Clean' is not an absurd concept, it is a production term. I mean that you put a microphone on something it will sound clean. Then you put it through a load of processors to fake an unclean and muddy sound.

It surely is absurd to say "let's try really hard to make this sound shit and like we are in a garage."

King_Ghidra@home
11-03-2004, 18:05:41
i'll take someone who is prepared to do something out of the ordinary over some plodding sheep-like tie-wearer who refuses to experiment with sounds any day

you call messing with the orthodox absurd - i call it the essence of rock

breaking the rules is fucking great, if people hadn't messed with the clean sounds of history then no one would ever have distorted a guitar and we'd all be up shit creek

Scabrous Birdseed
11-03-2004, 18:22:01
I'm sorry, how can you grunge fanboys even begin to talk about clean sound? Pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

Cleanness is achieved primarily through letting each instrument stand out and contribute to the overall experience. The pavement track does this to a much greater extent than most of your Nirvana-type music.

protein
11-03-2004, 18:22:04
That's not what I'm saying. I make filthy messy bleeping noises all the time. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing. It's just often the defence for messy sounding recording is that it is somehow more real than a clean recording and that clean recordings are somehow more processed.

You said "some meaningless concept of sound quality is less important" but infact they have worked hard to get their "bad" sound quality. It's not a new trick, it's a con.

I agree about breaking the rules. There are no rules. A producer is there to capture the sound of the band primarily but if he can improve it with trickery then great. I've recorded guitar amps in the back of cars, drums in sheds, stuck microphones to the ceiling, in the next room from the sound source. It's all great fun.

Debaser
11-03-2004, 18:29:50
Originally posted by protein
It's not a new trick, it's a con.

It's not a con, it's their prefered sound. So what if they worked hard to get it? They're not trying to pretend that they just stuck a shitty tape player in their practice room and pushed record you know. I think you're under the impression that bands like this deliberately sabotage their own recordings in some vain attempt to appear a bit edgy and cool, and like they don't even bother to try. Of course they don't (well, most), it's just their prefered style.

protein
11-03-2004, 18:45:15
To journos and fans they probably say "because we don't care about all this high tech stuff, we just want to play our music from the heart and keep it real" and tell the producer "We heard some recordings of a 70s band in a garage and thought that we should try and emulate that sound to make us appear edgy and cool, can you help?"

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to try to sound different just dumbing down and making yourself crap doesn't do it for me.

protein
11-03-2004, 18:53:39
I just listened to the track in question. It's a lovely clean recording. Crap voice but pretty good song. No wonder you're all defending it, it's well recorded. :rolleyes:

I thought we were talking about one of the hideous garage band's tracks. Must be one on the other CD I was thinking of.

protein
11-03-2004, 18:59:22
I was thinking about the absolutely fucking horrible track number five. Sounds like the unholy recordings.

Eklektikos
11-03-2004, 19:01:56
I really don't see what this argument is about. To me the sound quality seems no worse than that of most of the others on the compilation.

Scabrous Birdseed
11-03-2004, 19:06:10
Which one was track 5 again?

Eklektikos
11-03-2004, 19:09:26
The generic early 90s US alternative Kevin Smith film sounding thing

Scabrous Birdseed
11-03-2004, 19:11:07
That sounds like half the tracks on any LWP!

protein
11-03-2004, 19:11:25
The one with the horrible sound and droning vocals that sound like a miserable drunken brummie. The backing vocals are so un-enthusiastic they sound like people who were held in the garage against their will, beaten up and then forced to sing.

Scabrous Birdseed
11-03-2004, 19:15:41
Oh, that one.

I quite enjoyed that one.

Scabrous Birdseed
11-03-2004, 19:17:13
Is that Ghidras? 'Cause then I've got one of my connections guessed at least.

protein
11-03-2004, 19:24:57
I can't believe I was talking about a different track. How stoopid.

zmama
11-03-2004, 19:26:00
I went back and looked...it was Debaser's

Debaser
11-03-2004, 19:36:35
No 5's mine. It was recorded about 12 years ago by three 17yr old kids in Florida on a four track at one of thier houses. They were friends with Beck. No expensive 70s imitation garage recording there either, they just didn't have better stuff.

protein
11-03-2004, 20:02:31
Fair play, it sounds like a shitty four track recording done by a bunch of miserable teenagers because it actually was! I thought it might be part of the current droning garage rock band phenomenon which is what I was trying to get at - and rather badly.

One band that could be doing it but aren't are the White Stripes. I may not like their music but I really like the way the drums sound on their recordings. Really fat sounding. Loads of compression to compensate for the gentle tapping from the drummer but it ends up sounding like a five tonne monster is playing them. That's an example of a producer making a bad band sound better.

zmama
11-03-2004, 20:06:01
Now I like the White Stripes except for the drums...I hate the drumming and how it sounds...utter crap

protein
11-03-2004, 20:13:56
She can't drum for toffee but the producer polishes a turd and makes it sound loud.

I think I got all confused because we were talking about Pavement - a band I've heard of and are obviously released on labels and touring etc but I was remembering a goddam awful muddy track. Pavement's record company would put them into a recording studio and so I put two and two together and got 3.

Lazarus and the Gimp
11-03-2004, 20:28:59
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
Second of all, I feel perfectly vindicated in liking bands like Pavement et. al now, as I used to be perplexed and somewhat embarassed by the Euro disdain for this sound--but it is all completely clear to me know: YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE!
So much for thinking you were cool and hip and knowledgeable just because you're foreign!!! Hahahahahahahahaahbwhahaahahaha!


He's talking about some other "Pavement", right? Not the band that was actually pretty big in Britain and were massively influenced by British bands?


Not knowing who the Beatles are for Christ's sake? That's akin to US student knowledge of world geography: totally laughable and shameful!!!
If you don't know your past, how can you truly appreciate the present!?! My lord...a Swede and a Yank knew...horrible...simply horrible.

I'm not a Beatles fan, and I feel under no sort of cultural obligation to slavishly learn Beatles songs simply because they influenced a fad or two. I am not a musical snob. If I listen to a band it's because I like them, not because they're presumed to be important in some way.

If I'd failed to spot a Stones track, I'd be embarrassed, Not the Beatles. I'm just amused that I failed to identify a track I already own.

Lazarus and the Gimp
11-03-2004, 20:31:05
Scabby? Your Joan Baez review so funny that I shot coffee out of my nose. Nice one.

BigGameHunter
12-03-2004, 01:30:36
I just think it is highly odd/ironic/confusing that some of you spend massive amounts of time and energy dissecting what's wrong with current bands' music and then turn around and say "oooh...that's neat and cool and unique" to a song that basically set the stage for the current band you are not liking?!?
*sigh*
I'm afraid to ask, but what do you guys think of the Wipers--seminal Portland, Oregon punk/drone/garage band from the 70's and 80's? 'Cause to me, they are just the older uncle of bands like Pavement??????

King_Ghidra@home
12-03-2004, 08:11:41
you find it strange we don't talk about bands we've never heard of? yeah that is very strange...

so do you spend your life dissecting the bands that influnced your influential bands...

so some people didn't recognise 'tomorrow never knows' or something, get over it

Funkodrom
12-03-2004, 10:00:50
Pavement are still really popular here especially amongst musical types, I just don't like them.

Mr. Bas
12-03-2004, 11:42:32
Decent section, better than the last one in any case. I actually liked the pavement track, except for some of the annoying guitar parts. But it was really a pretty good song.

Re: the Wipers. I can't really make my mind up on them, a lot of their stuff is really good, and I intend to buy the box set as soon as I see it for a reasonable price. Probably directly ordering it from Zeno would be the best. Anyway, I first started listening to them after hearing Nirvana's versions of D-7 and Return of the rat, and especially their early stuff impressed me... But the only album I own by them (The herd) is rather unimpressive and completely lacks diversity. Nevertheless, I intend to hear more of their stuff.

Mr. Bas
12-03-2004, 11:47:28
Just checked my favourite online store, and they've more than halved the price for the box set. It should be on its way now, even though it'll take an expected 8 to 10 weeks. Woohoo! :beer:

Lazarus and the Gimp
12-03-2004, 17:14:56
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
I just think it is highly odd/ironic/confusing that some of you spend massive amounts of time and energy dissecting what's wrong with current bands' music and then turn around and say "oooh...that's neat and cool and unique" to a song that basically set the stage for the current band you are not liking?!?
*sigh*


Well I don't subscribe to the notion that one has to go through some sort of historical primer course before being entitled to voice an opinion on a genre of music. In any event, it's just a parlour game and I've heard more than enough mid-60's psychedelia to consider myself well-versed enough to satisfy myself as to my opinions.

Hell- take your own comments on Americana on your Pavement review. I'm not about to start testing your academic credentials by seeing if you recognise a Dock Boggs track when you hear it.

Stefu X
12-03-2004, 17:22:54
I'd like to thank Laz for strenghtening my eventual intention to purchase Marah's "Kids in Philly". I've heard stuff by Marah before and liked it.

BigGameHunter
12-03-2004, 18:10:28
I guess I'm just a little thick on this topic--and I certainly don't mean to offend or insult, but, as you probably have noticed, I'm a bit of an asshole at times.

Anywho...it's all very confusing to me but I'll just take it at face value and leave it at that.

Lazarus and the Gimp
12-03-2004, 18:20:38
Keep arguing, you big poof. This is what LWP is all about. I demand that you stand your ground and diss me like a man.

BigGameHunter
12-03-2004, 18:32:14
Ha ha ha...it's just weird...the band's that I think are cool and different and interesting here seem like they are considered trite and bad by some of you. But KG's comments about their popularity are somewhat heartening.
I'll list some other genre bands...waddya think? (If you haven't heard of them you should check them out):

Pedro the Lion
Wilco
Built to Spill
Luna
Modest Mouse

*End Is Forever*
13-03-2004, 02:33:58
At least three of those bands are often lumped in with "emo", BGH, or at least listened to by the same people...

BigGameHunter
13-03-2004, 04:32:55
So I guess they aren't cool....?
Seems I've come full circle here...emo is lame and I like emo even though I don't know what it is!!!!

Lazarus and the Gimp
13-03-2004, 08:25:13
Wilco are exceedingly cool- Uncle Tupelo were practically worshipped here. Luna are also highly rated in the wake of their ancestors.

zmama
13-03-2004, 09:40:20
I went to see Wilco with great expectations...they were terrible. Maybe it was just a bad day, but I was very disappointed, I expected to really like them.

*End Is Forever*
13-03-2004, 20:36:32
Someone should add Pedro The Lion and Modest Mouse to the list of "terrible band names"...

Scabrous Birdseed
27-11-2005, 21:16:25
My GF just asked me, out of the blue, about a song she'd once heard by a band she thought might be called Marah with a bit of the "Be My Baby" chorus thrown in, that she couldn't find the name of.

The power of LWP! Why did we stop doing this?

Debaser
27-11-2005, 21:35:38
Apathy I believe.

Lazarus and the Gimp
28-11-2005, 21:24:00
Because too many idle bastards would demand CD's, then never give any feedback on them.

I'd certainly be up for doing it again.

Scabrous Birdseed
29-11-2005, 11:34:43
Can we do it properly then? Two songs each, two CDs?

Funko
29-11-2005, 11:48:50
I would be up for it.

Scabrous Birdseed
29-11-2005, 13:25:30
What themes? Black and White? Heaven and Hell? Spick and Span? Up and Down? Round and Round? Clean and Wholesome? Rock and Roll? Inappropriate and Offensive? Me and Bobby McGee? Rollin' and Tumblin'?

Okay, I'll stop.

Lazarus and the Gimp
29-11-2005, 20:21:48
"Wide-eyed" and "Legless".

Funko
30-11-2005, 09:20:03
:lol:

BigGameHunter
05-12-2005, 11:09:07
I'm up and this time I won't include any of that emo shit.

Scabrous Birdseed
05-12-2005, 11:11:55
I think I've got a good "Wide-eyed" track, but nothing "Legless" as of yet.

Oh, had we not settled on those categories?

Funko
05-12-2005, 11:15:07
They'll do for me. I hadn't started looking yet though.

BigGameHunter
05-12-2005, 11:19:14
Uh...is there any English to American translation needed for the theme?
Drunk? Sober?

King_Ghidra
05-12-2005, 13:18:16
i don't think so, legless is drunk and wide-eyed is well....errr...not sure...but even so, why not use some artistic license

actually if someone described someone as wide-eyed i'd say they were either shocked or coked up or naive

still, interpretation is the best thing here, it means what it means to you right

Funko
05-12-2005, 13:24:23
Yes, agree on wide eyed, also trying to decide what interpretation I'm going to take on that.

Fergus & The Brazen Car
05-12-2005, 14:53:37
Take a meteorological reading:

Andy Fairweather Low's "Wide Eyed and Legless."

I remember it from my first year at grammar school...