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OldWarrior_42
27-02-2002, 07:14:06
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2850780,00.html

We'll see how this one pans out. AoE-AoK-Empire Earth etc...

:shrugs: Nothing conceptually new.

Shining1
27-02-2002, 07:24:23
Except they've stolen the resource model from Z:Steel Soliders. Or from CivIII. One or the other:).

And I am so unimpressed with smart peasants. Like the governor in SMAC, this sounds like units doing things you don't want in the name of reduced MM.

It could be quite good, perhaps, but up against AOM and War3, I don't think it has much of a shot unless something a lot more innovative turns up.

OldWarrior_42
27-02-2002, 07:43:48
Smart peasants... intelligent workers... whatever, in the name of less mm as you say. Also unlimited resources so you don't have to build loads of peasants and send them to chop wood or something. Just increase your borders and take in the resources in your sphere of influence. More elimination of mm so as to make you mm somewhere else instead like spies or scouts or your army.

Also AoM and WarIII probably cannot really bang out anything revolutionary to this type genre. I don't think from a conceptual point of view, that the genre has too many alternatives to turn to without completely eliminating some points and just focusing on others.

Just how much different can you make the way you build a stick house differ from each other... if you get my drift.

Don't get me wrong though, for I will probably pick up all three of the above mentioned games as they hit market. I enjoy this type of game... and simply for the different eras or armies or civs or whatever... will entice me to purchase. Just that I know there will be no groundbreaking or revolutionary ideas in these games. Just clones.

I want a good Civil War type game like this .... or Napoleanic Wars.

Shining1
27-02-2002, 08:00:39
Well, I don't think AoM will do anything particularly new - Ensemble has their style down pat and won't move too far from it. But it does have 3D, they've removed the feudal age era so you can do things better at the start, and they've got more variety in the unit abilities. So that should be good - a step above anything you've played before.

WarcraftIII is trying to go the other way - much more tactical combat, so things take 10-20 hits to kill something. Micromanagement of your combat units is emphasised over mass production of combat units. Also 3D, some nice abilities, and hopefully the style should be as fun as Warcraft2 was when it came out.

Brian = :p

Funkodrom
27-02-2002, 09:26:45
Warcraft III sounds worse and worse the more I hear about it. I like that the resourses don't run out but I still don't think it'll be as fun as the mad rush for land you get in Z: Steel Soldiers.

Nav
27-02-2002, 09:53:44
It seems like they're progressing the genre.. recent AoE style games have just added more content, 3D etc.. this looks more involved from a strategy/tactical pov. But we'll have to see!

But most importantly... It's got Nuclear Missiles !

Resource Consumer
27-02-2002, 10:24:18
I am a little disappointed. I was hoping for something a bit more innovative. This is AoK bis....

I, for one, am not keep on non-exhaustible resources. That was one thing that annoyed me a little about Cossacks (also working for a mining company makes me quite sensitive on that point).

I'm with Shining1 about the "smart peasants".

Smart? These will of course be equipped with a Reynolds AI which means they'll go round in circles for five minutes then try to farm a tree.

Shining1
27-02-2002, 10:28:27
Shell Oil and the Tree of Life:).

Are the Nukes infinite ranged, I wonder?:)

Resource Consumer
27-02-2002, 10:40:35
Brian will never escape his past.

One reason for buying it, though......

It won't have Sid's name on the box.

Shining1
27-02-2002, 10:44:32
Blizzsid:).

The Mad Monk
27-02-2002, 11:10:16
Resources that don't run out?

How Totally Annhilationish

Resource Consumer
27-02-2002, 11:33:18
I never run out of resources to consume, Brian will make sure of that.

Spartak
27-02-2002, 11:39:46
:shoot: Gotcha

Vincent Fandango
27-02-2002, 15:21:20
Wow, that's really sad!
An AOK clone.

Roland
27-02-2002, 15:49:10
Is there a difference between an AOK clone and a Siedler clone ?

MDA
27-02-2002, 17:11:57
Originally posted by OldWarrior_42
Just how much different can you make the way you build a stick house differ from each other... if you get my drift.


Use bigger, more colorful sticks.:p

Darkstar
05-03-2002, 08:07:46
Humm... so a retry at a previous click fest game? I am trying to remember the name of the game with 'smart peasants'. The workers would literally do what they think needed doing... you could tell them you wanted to emphasis 'Repair' more, or 'Harvest/Store more Food/resources/whatever', but...

Oh yeah! The last four RTS games with smart workers: Dungeon Keeper, Majesty, Empire of the Ant, and Startopia! The workers aren't completely free willed in those... which was one of the reasons they were better received then in the older RTS games with 'smart workers'.

Smart workers really aren't new.

RTS games started with unlimited resources. They switched to limited to make the game more challenging... otherwise, you just located the first source of resource X and made mess loads of workers to harvest it. One small cluster could end up as the 'motherlode' spot versus larger ones where the sides of the resource were 'blocked', meaning less workers harvesting the resources.

So... what's new? I read the BHG thingie. Didn't really see anything. They make it sound like either Empire Earth with unlimited resources, or Shogun depeding on the bits you paid attention to (saying, you could zoom into the tactical RT of a battle... does that mean the strategic, master level is TBS?).

Resource Consumer
05-03-2002, 12:28:00
The sweep and the canvas will be infinite...........just like the missiles.

Shining1
05-03-2002, 13:04:30
The Asian tileset looks EXACTLY like the AoK one. And both companies work for Microsoft. Hmmm...

Otherwise, it sounds like an RTS that Brian's taken all the hard bits he didn't like out of:). No rushing, no villager management...

Nav
05-03-2002, 13:36:37
I always found villager management annoyingly repetitive... :D

Shining1
06-03-2002, 00:14:04
The Warcraft peasants were pretty cool. Everything since then has just caused more trouble than fun.

Shining1
27-03-2002, 08:26:10
For thingy.

Sean
27-03-2002, 19:02:58
Shiny bumped a thread that mentioned TA!

Shining1
27-03-2002, 23:17:21
I loved TA:D.

Sean
27-03-2002, 23:24:52
Who didn’t? It was the only decent RTS out there until, hell, it is the best RTS out there.

Darkstar
27-03-2002, 23:30:08
You know, you still have to make the peasants to work the reasources. The things just don't run out. 10 peasants to a mine, max. Whee...

So you'll still be making peasants like crazy. And pissed off they aren't doing exactly what you want. So you just make more.

And according to the latest review... since they keep doing what you told them, how smart can they be? That must have taken a dive after they actually tried it. So lots and lots of MM on the way! Wheee!

I really don't see good odds for BHG's next thing being much fun. Just an Empire Earth copy cat with a bit of SMAC/Civ3 thrown in for flavor. Whee...

Shining1
27-03-2002, 23:56:51
Getting on top of the insane resource management demands of the modern RTS should be top priority for designers these days. Fix that, and suddenly people have time to scout around their base and expand and build early armies to stop rushes and such.

Darkstar
28-03-2002, 00:06:55
Actually, it should just catch you up to the GOOD RTS OE in SP. The Opponent Engine can constantly tweak stuff, but you have to look and find it in the first place. A OE that is truly tuned for it's game is generally rougher then most human opponents. But... I hear that they aren't taking the time to do that these days. SP is for basic training, and MP is where the real action is, exclusively.

Think about it... if the computer is a competent aide, you and your opponents are now all doing the same thing... telling it to leave you X amount of stuff so you can make your army, build your defenses, go scouting and raiding, etc... So it might be an advancement, but it's still only one brain per side. You just wouldn't have to spend the majority of your time building, assiging, and checking on villagers for the game duration. So... in the beginning, you'd get to watch the pretty animations more... same as at the end. ;) Other then that, you are too busy scouting/skirmishing/defending/attacking. Same as always.

Funkodrom
03-04-2002, 12:49:47
Sounds like they've nicked some of the ideas from Z: Steel Soldiers, which is good!

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=838610#post838610

Couple answers/responses to things that have come up--

* Getting resources (e.g. Metal from Mines) is definitely based on controlling territory. There is an ultimate limit on how fast you can gather metal from any one mine (based on the size of the mountain it services), and it doesn't do you any good building a bunch of mines next to the same mountain. If you want more metal, you'll need to go take over more territory.

* If you don't want to micromanage your workers, the Auto Peasants option is MUCH more advanced than what you're used to in most games. I often just pump out some peasants in a town, and let them figure out what kind of gathering to do.

* Villages and Forts are used to claim and control territory. If you just build up in one city, you won't control much territory. But of course undeveloped villages are pretty weak and easy to take over, so there's a tradeoff. The Russians have a fun ability (Russian Winter) that causes damage to all enemy units in their territory--a good nation if you don't like to get rushed, but of course you have to take over territory in order to have it cause people damage.

See ya,

Brian

I'm actually quite interested in this.

Resource Consumer
03-04-2002, 13:31:35
So, if I want to build a second golf course then I have to nuke someone or wait for General Winter?

Funkodrom
03-04-2002, 13:38:33
Only if you are playing as the Americans. :D

Venom
03-04-2002, 14:02:01
We do it because we can.