View Full Version : Star Wars Despots vs Star Trek populists

20-11-2003, 10:57:47
Interesting article by David Brin.


20-11-2003, 17:33:48
I can't seem to take Star wars that seriously.

People always say it has hidden messages, to me, it's just a Sci-Fi movie series.

20-11-2003, 23:14:37
Somebody had WAY too much time on their hands.

21-11-2003, 01:31:35
"VERY" thought provoking.. True.

But is it relevant.

DO we need gods as rulers and politicians since the ones we have are doing such a pissant job..


21-11-2003, 03:16:56
That's not it at all. Lucas just wants a Big Brother to come along... a Hitler from a Good Universe to lead the world to a path of betterment and harmony. He's got no faith that democracy can ever do anything good, because it is all mob mind, lowest common denominator, and noone but the worst people, the ones that shouldn't be allowed near any responsibilty, are willing to do what needs to be done.

Immortal Wombat
21-11-2003, 18:25:12
I'm confused as to why Brin very definatly treats the Jedi as demi-gods, and then suggests that all the emotion/goodness/evilness of them is intended to be directly applicable to humans.

21-11-2003, 22:02:26
What's good enough for a god, is more then good enough for a spear chucker/target. And if something can ruin a god, then it will certainly ruin a walking target/torch carrier.

Immortal Wombat
21-11-2003, 22:26:46
Like having a tendon snipped? or a haircut? bollocks.

Demi-gods have their own weaknesses.

21-11-2003, 22:52:24
Star Wars is about good people going bad, and then being redeemed. And only 1 person in the literal TRILLIONS of TRILLIONS of beings is actually of value or imporatant. Didn't you pay attention?

Hercules weakness? Anger. Same as Vader. Born entitled/special, eventually makes up for what he did wrong.

Hero? No weakness. He was the first of a long line of many bastards Zues fathered on women he raped. He stood out so much, we call every man (and woman) that does something extraordinary by HIS name... Hero.

To the Greeks, to be a hero was to be half god. Special, unique, touched by the Cosmic forces that made up the Universe/existance, and to be above mere mortal law.

Immortal Wombat
21-11-2003, 23:15:31
Originally posted by Darkstar
[B]Star Wars is about good people going bad, and then being redeemed. And only 1 person in the literal TRILLIONS of TRILLIONS of beings is actually of value or imporatant. Didn't you pay attention?

It's about demi-gods going bad and then being redeemed. Brin very carefully makes that distinction, then disregards it later on.

Every story of any sort of epic scale only has one or two important people. The bigger the scale of the story the more out-of-proportion the greatness of the lead character becomes. Star Wars isn't any different.

22-11-2003, 08:49:58
The thing i never understood about the star wars series was that the jedi never really seemed that powerful, and yet we are constantly led to believe that their power is going to change the galaxy one way or the other.

Vader for instance, never achieves anything on any kind of scale. Beyond the ability to strangle his subordinates, his powers are basically a joke. Ignominiously blasted into space in the first film and singularly failing to retrieve the stolen plans. Neither he nor the emperor are capable of stopping the general rise of the rebellion, because they are so dependent on the actions of their subordinates. Yeah they might be hard individually but they are as much victims of the general passage of time and the scale of the galaxy as any other individual.

The real power in the star wars films is information. Information on the wherabouts of enemies, of their fleets, of their superweapons, etc.

I reckon the bothans are the most powerful force in star wars :D