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Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
11-02-2002, 18:10:40
Hey folks, it's the official Angband Challenge #11 thread!

Starting today, I will provide a pre-rolled character for you to play and compete with the rest of the challengers.

Here are the rules:

1. NO CHEATING. This game is basically being run on the honour system. No-one can stop you making save-reload backups, but it is not part of the rules. If you die at CLevel 49 one turn before killing Morgoth, you'll have to start from CLevel 1 again. (Not that you'd need to, since you're almost guaranteed to win :) )

2. You have two weeks to get as far as possible. It is possible to win the game during this time period.

3. There are some options you are not allowed to change. Below I will list the ones that are forbidden for you to change during the challenge.


Auto-scum for good items
Generate dungeons with aligned rooms
Generate dungeons with connected stairs
Monsters chase current location (v. slow)
Monsters chase recent locations (v. slow)
Monsters behave more intelligently
Monsters act smarter in groups (v. slow)
Monsters learn from their mistakes
Monsters exploit players weaknesses
Any of the "Birth Options"
Any of the "Cheat Options"


The others you may change according to your preferences. Keep in mind that this is only the list for Angband v2.9.3. Other variants will have other options, and will have their own taboo list. I will probably stick this and other lists up on the web page sometime soon.



If you dispute any of the rules or option changes, post your objection, and we can all debate whether or not the rule should stand. Any suggestions for further rules will be welcomed.

The point of the challenges is to aid you in learning the game and different strategies for characters/races/classes you may not habitually play. The other point is to have fun, and lord it over your opponents when you win :)


Challenge #11 is Magilla, a human warrior. He is to be run ONLY in Angband v2.9.3. Post your Character Dumps (CDs) in THIS thread. Only post dead characters, winners, or your final live entry. Once two weeks have elapsed, a winner will be determined, and said winner will have the honour of deciding the variant and rolling the character for Challenge #12. Please limit your selection of variants to the most recent versions available on Thangorodrim.

Angband Challenge Page (http://www.geocities.com/qaj_stars/chal.html)

(Edited to remove the "Auto-haggle" option from the taboo list.)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
11-02-2002, 18:14:21
While I remember, here's some tips for posting your CDs.

You don't need to post the whole thing. If your CD is 10k long, and has your home inventory, or last 30 messages etc., try to prune any useless information so as not to clutter up the thread.

ALWAYS post your CD between [ code ] [ /code ] tags. But without those spaces. This should retain the formatting of the dump.

ALWAYS disable smilies in your posts! Some of the information converts to smiley faces and the like.

Darkstar
12-02-2002, 07:11:29
Got the character...

Just so you know, when I visited your page, I got 3 scripting errors. I will presume those were due to geocities trying to use crappy pop up ads, yes?

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
12-02-2002, 17:21:19
Yep. My page is the most basic HTML you can imagine, with no scripts. I got the same scripting errors a few times. It seems some of their ads work, some don't. Pretty shabby, but then I gets what I pays for.

Now, enough with the comments. Someone post a CD! :)

Greg W
12-02-2002, 21:36:45
Lol. I should just explain now that I probably won't be playing much - just too busy atm. Just in it more to learn the game, and have a bit of fun. I dare say once I pick it up I'll have a CD very shortly thereafter. :D

I'll try and d/l it tonight tho and give it a try.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
12-02-2002, 22:34:02
In my role as challenge organiser and rule maker, I would like to announce that the option, Auto haggle in stores, is no longer a taboo option. Feel free to change it to yes or no.

After playing Magilla a bit, and remembering back to a discussion that was had on Usenet, this option comes with it's own built-in pro and con.

Auto-haggle means that you will automatically get a semi-optimum price when buying and selling an item from the stores. Switching it off means that you are forced to haggle with the shopkeeper to get the actual optimum price.

For example: consider item foo. When auto-haggle is on, foo automatically sells to the shopkeeper for 40AU and you can buy one for 200AU.

When auto-haggle is off, you must manually haggle. The above item may, if you haggle correctly and talk the shopkeeper up/down to the max/min price, sell for 60AU and be purchased for 150AU. However, if you can purchase (or sell) enough different items to the shopkeeper, then the shopkeeper of a particular store regards you as a master haggler, and you will get improved auto-haggle (ie. the non-auto-haggle boundary prices) until your character dies or the shopkeeper cycles.

On the other hand, if you annoy the shopkeeper by making outrageous bids, he will insult you. Get a certain number of insults (it's different between each shopkeeper) and he'll kick you out of his shop and not let you in for a few thousand turns.

The pro: auto-haggle off has the capacity to get you more money from sales, and cheaper goods to buy (it's about 10%, I think, though don't quote me on that).

The con: it's very time consuming, and annoying if you get barred from a critical shop.


Ultimately, it's up to you. You decide whether you want a faster, more streamlined shopping experience, or if you want to micromanage your character for the extra cash. Indeed, there's nothing stopping you from swapping back and forth during the game as you see fit.


Challenge announcement: If you want to change the setting permanently for Magilla, or any other settings, and keep the settings for each time you play, you must ONLY change the options before re-saving the file - you may not play any actual turns before you save. It is then recommended you back up the save file so you can restore it after Magilla dies, eliminating the need to do so each time you restart the character.

Sir Penguin
13-02-2002, 04:23:14
I'm still trying to get the savefile to load in Linux. I think I've figured it out. The savefiles are saved in the format UID.Login, and are automatically loaded when a specific user loads the binary. However, I've got a level 21 Hobbit Rogue named Root (forgot to log out of my su shell before playing :eugh: ) going, so it may take a while :).

SP

Darkstar
13-02-2002, 19:22:15
Well... if it wasn't for the fact that I decided to keep EVERY potion of Speed I found, I'd have posted *2* CDs already.

Currently have Magilla up to 18th level.

One of my favorite games on the Amiga was Hack, a Rogue type game for the Amiga. Having experience with it, Nethack, and ADOM, when I started this game, I concentrated on making sure I knew every potion. Which was why I have been collecting Speed from the beginning... Identified it early on...

Got to say, I really hate the way it sucks down your character stats with traps. The third Room I ever went into into sucked out a Con point... Then the first room (Stair room!) I was in on level 2 sucked out Dex... I haven't a clue how many more points of Dex I'd have lost since then, but it's been at least 12!!! But I Identified a ring of Sustain Dex, so they haven't been to bad.

The Speed potions saved Magilla big time when I walked into a room, tripped a massive loose Strength trap (From 18/20 to 14 while carrying a good bit of 'loot'), and of course, a zoo full of Orcs popped out immediately... Went from 220 hit points to 60 in just under 4 moves... Yikes! Figured I was going to be posting a CD even with sucking down Speed to RUN AWAY very fast.

The other time I almost died, it was very similar... I walked through a door, hit a trap that stunned me... then a mass of orcs with a mix novice mages came pouring out... the mages kept STUNNING and CONFUSING me... (I had better AC and HP by then, so the orcs didn't waste me as bad though). First chance I got, I hit the Speed again, and went running. That trip, I burnt through 5 Speed potions just getting my butt to where I could take the time to quaff down some serious fix me ups...

So far though, the thing I really hate are the white louses... makes it a pain to cross through a room full of the buggers when the only STAIRS going the way you want is on the opposite side of the dungeon, and that room is the ONLY way through... sigh...

Other then that? Loads of fun! (Actually, getting the snot knocked out of me and running for the up stairs was fun.)

Oh yeah... be careful, new players, in town. A townsperson walked up to me when I started and knocked me down to 1 HP when I FIRST STARTED. That would have been a sad, sad, sad, CD. Magilla, Level 1, 0 XP, killed by a battle scarred mercenary in the town.

How many levels are there in the dungeon?

How do you get a dump of all the monsters and kills you know? Just in a character dump? Or what?

FYI - I didn't have to install Ansi.sys. I pulled down the Windows package, unzipped it, and ran the exe. Worked fine. Maybe W2K has Ansi set up in it already. Don't know. I know none of my 9x flavors did, and nor did my NT 4 workstation.

Sir Penguin
13-02-2002, 20:33:36
White lice are the reason some mage created the Stinking Cloud spell :).

Well, my rogue is dead (tried a healing spell when I should have read a PD scroll), so I'll get on to Magilla as soon as I can accept my grievous loss. Zangband spoiled me with its multiple towns; I had a hard time finding any C?W potions. And I couldn't find *any* artifacts, aside from the Phial. All I had that was of any use was a shield of resistance and a Defender weapon. But, I digress, this is the wrong thread :).

SP

Sir Penguin
13-02-2002, 20:35:55
You can find out what monsters you've killed, what uniques you've met, and what artifacts you've seen by pressing ~. You can see the description of a monster or unique that you've met by pressing the / key, typing the letter of the monster, and cycling through the results.

SP

Darkstar
13-02-2002, 22:54:05
No regular monsters in the ~ info. Just unique monsters.

I want a list, dammit! The whole list! I know it is tracking the info. SPIT IT OUT!

;)

It's so nice to review your kill list now and then...

Sir Penguin
13-02-2002, 23:20:26
Oh, sorry, it shows you all the objects, not all the monsters. The ~ menu in Zangband shows you all the monsters (and the dump shows the total).

SP

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
14-02-2002, 00:49:54
Just to clarify, DS, you don't have to post EVERY CD, just ones you're either proud of, or you're entering for comparison. Of course, there's no rule against it, but if you feel getting Magilla killed on DLevel 0 by a mercenary is something you feel compelled to share with everyone, go ahead :) :)

Darkstar
14-02-2002, 22:51:50
Well... not dead yet. Level 21... been getting bored, taking chances... hasn't made me pay for it yet.

If this wasn't a competition, I'd have already dived straight down as fast and as far as possible, to find out a bit about the depths, died, and started a new character. A character that cannot learn spells? Bleah. Where's the fun in that? You mean I have to go harvesting the correct magic items for deep survivability?

Well, at least characters in Angband have insanely fast heal times. Step - Heal five points - Step - Heal five more.

If only you didn't have stat droppers every freaking other room, it wouldn't be such a little bitch.

Now down to 12 strength. That means no armor. very little light. and no food. Only ONCE out of the 2 MILLION turns I've played so far has there been a strength recovery. Funny thing is... my con has been knocked down just as much, but there is ALWAYS a Restore Con potion or mushroom for sale at the surface, if I don't have a couple such items I stumbled across and kept for emergencies.

If this keeps up, I won't do another run of the character... what's the point? Keep it all in your head, go with light weight stuff... and spell the bastards to death. One way or the other.

(You can tell the honey moon period is over...)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
15-02-2002, 00:42:12
Have you experimented with Word of Recall scrolls yet, DS? :)

Darkstar
15-02-2002, 23:30:49
I have now... Just found a couple of dozen scrolls of recall last night for Magilla.

And playing Magilla the Gorilla forms bad habits. Yesterday, I played a few mages. Darn, you have to OPEN doors? Since when? Magilla just walks through anything less then granite. :D

That, and not worrying too much about poisons... thanks to Magilla getting over poisons in like 3 to 4 turns, even when at low levels.

Anyways... I tried out a few mages last night, died early and often, as proper for mages (most deaths due to poison traps or exceptional hits... wow. Didn't know so many of the early monsters HAD poison!). Then swapped back over to Magilla, so I didn't have to manually key in 'Open Door'. :D

I rarely use word of recalls to just go topside. Now, when you are running you ass away from a (currently) nasty unique who is practically keeping up with you when you are at +9 Speed and you have all of 30 or so HP left, yeah, they come in REAL handy. :D Hell, Phase Doors are real handy as well. Whatever it takes.

But going back up in general? I prefer to just walk the Gorilla up. That makes two chances to find lots of speed potions. Speed, speed, and more speed. Speed doesn't kill in Angband... Speed is life. ;)

Last night, after my venting here... guess what EVERY store started carrying? Potions of Restore Strength! I'm stocked now... and right after clearing the stores out, what are they trying to sell? Rings of Sustain Strength. Gee, that sure would have been handy for my first 2 million turns!

Still, for an older dungeon crawl, it's a lot of fun. :D Easiest dungeon crawl to survive I've ever seen... Hell, even my mages would still be alive if it wasn't for that weird glitch where you are just suddenly surrounded by monsters. No, not a trap, ambush, or anything else. Just 'glitch', and there's a monster around you in ever square. That's how all but one of my mages got poisoned (The last got poisoned off a dart trap)... and not getting over being poisoned in just a few turns means serious shit for a low level character.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
16-02-2002, 00:00:36
You'd really walk up to the surface from DLevel 40? :)

Magilla was intentionally picked to be easy to start off. Some of the more esoteric combinations in way-out variants might have put people off the game a bit.

Mages can walk into doors to open them too. Check your options (the = key) and look for the easy_open switch.

You can buy speed potions occasionally, but the easiest way to get them is to WoR up to the surface, and drop down to DLevel 1 or 2. That's the "natural level" for the speed potion. Better than speed potions, though, are items that will increase your speed intrinsically. Not to mention staves and rods :)

DS, if it's not too much bother, can you post your CD in a separate thread, appropriately labelled? I'd like to see how advanced your Magilla is right now.

Darkstar
16-02-2002, 00:31:28
Levels 1 or 2? I find speed potions mostly on 2 and 4, so far. Although I hit a nice batch on level 8 when I was getting low...

Sure, I'll post it this weekend, sometime.

40 levels? I was guessing it had 20 or 40... those are traditional in these old dungeon crawls, for some reason.

Yesterday, I found my first rod. Wasn't until after I sold it that I realized why those are so much nicer then wands. Interesting... was only light though, so no biggie.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
16-02-2002, 01:09:15
Hey, don't knock rods of light. They're grrrrreat! Well, if you come across a whole bunch of light sensitive creatures in a line they are. But you're right, there are a whole load of better ones.

There are actually 127 levels in Angband. I just picked DLevel 40 as a fairly deep one that would be majorly annoying to walk up from - esp. if you find yourself out of food :D

Greg W
18-02-2002, 21:01:32
Well, finally started a game last night. Almost got killed by thugs before I knew what I was doing. Was down to 2 hit points before I realised that the game stopped if I didn't move. :D

Anyway, do you know how hard it is to figure out that "I" + "G" is what you use to pick something up off the ground? Bloody help text files are useless - they just say you walk over something to pick it up. :rolleyes: Anyway, got clevel 2, but still wandering around on 50'.

Got to admit though - for a very simple game it is fairly addictive. Hope to give it a proper bash tonight with any luck.

Actually, dumb question #1. How do I identify items (short of selling them and thus (perhaps) discovering what they do? Tried the inspect command, but that does jack. All I got right now to inspect is a scroll, but I got ANFI how to discover what an "an se far" (no, that's not the name, I made that up) is. :clueless:

Sir Penguin
18-02-2002, 22:48:39
You buy Identify scrolls. Later on, you might buy or find staves of Perception, or you might find rods of Perception. For the first couple levels I usually sell all my scrolls/potions because I know that the RNG isn't nice enough to give me something really cool :). I find that I get more bad stuff (that the store can't resell) that I can sell for 12 AU than good stuff which I can sell for 50+ AU identified.

You can walk over something to pick it up (either pressing the Y key to confirm or not) by modifying the options (= key). If you inscribe ( { key ) something in your inventory with the text '=g' you'll pick up identical items automatically.

SP

Sir Penguin
18-02-2002, 22:52:15
If you've got an artifact or high-end ego-item (pseudo-IDed as {special} and {excellent}, respectively), you can buy/find *Identify* scrolls, which will give you a run-down on all the special properties of the item (things like stat boosts, what it is really good at killing, and so on).

SP

Greg W
19-02-2002, 00:43:29
So if I identify an "an se far" scroll and discover that it is a scroll of, oh, I dunno, "light healing", does that then mean that all further scrolls of "light healing" will be called "an se far", and also that all scrolls titled "an se far" are all scrolls of "light healing"? Or does each scroll just have a bunch of random words/letters, and thus need to be identified to be used/sold?

Sir Penguin
19-02-2002, 03:36:25
During a game, potion colour, scroll title, and wand/staff/rod/ring material are all kept mapped to one kind of item. So once you identify or sell the item in question, you will remember the mapping (your inventory says things like "A purple potion of Cure Light Wounds" or similar, and all further purple potions will be potions of CLW). On later levels, you might find potions or encounter monsters that make you forget everything, so that you have to identify everything again, but by then it shouldn't make much of a dent on your treasury.

Something sneaky that the game does (or at least used to do) is that it doesn't tell you the name of a scroll that's in a store, until you sell it that scroll. It only tells you the function of a scroll (It will say something like "A scroll of Magic Mapping" instead of "A scroll entitled 'kahr toba' of Magic Mapping").

SP

Sir Penguin
19-02-2002, 03:41:52
In other words, yes :). But you can sell stuff before you identify it, at a much lower price than you would if you identified it as something good. If you identify something as a bad item (negative effects), you can't sell it as long as you know that it's bad (this is true for {cursed} weapons and armour, too).

SP

Greg W
19-02-2002, 04:11:03
Minor clarification here: if I sell one (that I haven't identified), does it tell me what it is after I sell it, so it is auto-identified from then on and appears in the store's inventory fully identified? :clueless:

Funny, I have been sitting at work all day thinking about it - very addictive for such a simple(ish) game - in terms of graphics, sounds and storyline anyway. :D

Sir Penguin
19-02-2002, 05:05:06
Yes. :)

SP

Darkstar
19-02-2002, 19:57:53
Greg...

Yes. Starting out, I'd recommend selling everything you find for quick cash, so you can equip your character better.

If you identify scrolls of 'asdf fdsa' as being a Cure Light Wounds, your character will remember that from then all. All future scrolls of 'asdf fdsa' will ALSO say 'of Cure Light Wounds'.

When you sell your items, you learn what they are. It's the ONLY way to sell bad stuff, which is generally most of what you find starting out. Although I did find and sell a broken dagger of Slay Demons (+26, +15) that made the shopkeeper jump for joy for a few hours... Not that it was a big deal. I'd screwed him MANY times selling him unidentified bad weapons.

You cannot SELL a cursed item in Angband, Pengy. It won't even come up on the list of items sellable for the shop. Angband WILL mark the item, if unidentified, as {cursed} at that time. So, for Magilla, it is a good way to check if that shield you found is okay... if the shop keeper won't bid on it, it's cursed.

Greg... yeah, the Rogue family games were the ORIGINAL 'JOMT' games. And still have to best pull. :D

Commands to remember... 'R'. When nothing is around, and your hit points are low, you might want to Rest a bit for more HP. (That's a Capital R...)

The dungeon levels reset every time you change levels... Which sucks if you want to run straight for the surface from your current level... but is good for getting rid of explosively reproducing louses in overdrive when you want to check out all the level for more stuff to sell so you can get some decent armor or something... ;)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
19-02-2002, 19:58:08
Well, while I don't have a CD with me (it's at home) my first attempt to play Magilla ended at CLevel 14 when I got confused and pounded into submission. Stupid mages.

Anyway, I'll post it if I get the chance tonight, otherwise I'll bring the CD on disk with me tomorrow. Needless to say, I'll be going for another attempt - I have at least CLevel 21 to beat :D

Darkstar
19-02-2002, 20:13:16
C26... or 27. Magilla is close to being 27. Another room/stack of Uruks will do it.

I really screwed up though... I had just hit top side, dropped my current gear of 'items I don't care about but get good sell prices' and gotten some items I needed, as well as a great toy... and was utterly shocked, seeing the blacksmith selling som nice Bar Armor of Resist Acid... At least, I think I messed up. *I* don't care if Magilla loses tons of HP to acid... but I'm sick and tired of how much acid gets tossed about ruining my armor...

You'd think a +9 Cloak would protect most of your armor from acid... NO... and just this past Monday night, I discovered the joys of being ambushed by a gelantionus cube. Went from an AC of 62 to AC of 30 in just a couple of love taps from the beast. Just dressed in tatters after that...

Luckily, a stack of Uruks, Cave Orcs, Black Orcs, and Hill Orcs came by to show me the latest of men's combat fashion... Let me replace my useless Helm, Boots, Gloves, Shield, Cloak (they had one little acid tosser in their group, and wouldn't you know that would be the thing to knock my cloak down to -3... I got so ticked, I tossed a Rod of Light through the silly little thing, as all my arrows were scattered about by then).

Amazing... My 2Hder has been enchanted to +9, +9... it NEVER gets hurt hitting things. My Bow is no +9, +9... it never takes an acid hit. But your armor soaks it up...

And don't get me started on your backpack getting trashed along with your armors, while your cloak stays fine.

Gotten to REALLY love very huge rooms with o's in them... getting to hate acid spitting things VERY much... Do you know how expensive it is to have to buy new boots, gloves, shields, helms every trip (And new body armor ever 2)? And that the armorer rarely carries all those items. Sigh...

Well, if it's not one thing, it's another.

I am PRESUMING, despite the fact I've seen a few magic items at weapons at (+18, +36), that +9 is as far as you can enchant a weapon or armor yourself. Is that correct? Most of these games have it so that going to +10 makes the object go 'poof'.

MDA
19-02-2002, 20:49:49
It won't go poof, but the odds of getting one to +10 successfully are about 1 in 100 and less than that beyond +10. Not really worth the cost.

Darkstar
19-02-2002, 21:22:56
You sure? Wands go poof when you 'over' charge them. My experience with similar games is that if wands go poof when over charged, so will weapons and armor. And it does seem to have the 100% chance of success - (10% per +) already in it...

What's the deal with cost? You come back with 40K in your pocket, and the only thing the shops are selling that are interesting are the enchant weapoin to hit... what else are you going to do? :D

All I've got left is enchanting my shovel. I found a +4, +2 shovel a while back... and I've taken it to +5, just reading off a last scroll (didn't want to store it in my house), after pushing my sword and bow to +9. I rarely get ambushed when using the shovel, so I haven't worried about.

Humm... right now, my Magilla is turning into a serious Rod toting machine. Rods are nice... too bad I need to put a few 'Balls' back in storage. Just not reliable enough with the better damaging ones. I take it Rod use is affected by level, with a difficulty per rod type modifying it? Magilla's Fire Bolt works most of the time... Illumination always works (well, 19 out of 20 times), but not the more SERIOUS ones. Well, have to keep a few of the big wands then... for those serious inflict massive damage moments...

Greg W
19-02-2002, 21:41:39
Well, I did indeed play again last night. Was going pretty well too until I decided to try and head to the surface from 200'. Got up to 150' nps, but getting to 100' took me ages. Getting to 50' wasn't much better any by this stage I had run out of food. Ran around the entire floor (as far as I could tell) on 50' and could not find the stairs up for the life of me. Getting desperate (I was weak at this stage from hunger) I wenty back down to 100' and straight back up to 50', hoping that I'd get an easier level. Explored 3/4 of it before I died of starvation, still hadn't found the stairs up. :cry:

So, I'll post a CLevel 9 dump tonight. Worst thing was I found out that I had a potion of mold food (or something like that) as well as a scroll of some sort of food, but had never seen either before so I couldn't identify them. No scrolls of recall (or whatever teleports you to town) either.

That's the only thing that ticks me off somewhat about the game, is the levels changing every time you leave a level. I'd prefer it personally if they just reset every time you enter the dungeon, or provided some sort of express exit to the surface. :bash:

One thing I really want to try next time is treasure veins. Discovered a few this time but never managed to get a pick to dig some out.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
19-02-2002, 23:07:56
DS: You have 40k AU, and yes, expensive items are few and far between. But you'll be happy to have all that cash when you see that ring of speed [+10] for 1.5million AU :) Unless you don't have that much, in which case you'll curse the RNG :)

Weapons and armor will absolutely not go poof if you push them over +9. It's just, as MDA says, really really hard. If you're a mage (or is it priest?) you can enchant your stuff until the cows come home, but then, by the time you're that level you'll have some very nice equipment you won't be able to affect anyway :)

Resist Acid armor will only resist acid for that particular item, plus it'll make the character take 66% less damage from acid attacks. Your other equipment will still be damaged. The only way to protect ALL your equipment is by finding an item with acid *immunity*, and good luck on that, since it's RARE. I think only 2 or 3 items have it, and you'll probably only find one (or less!) each game.

Non-warrior characters aren't so bad once you get used to them. The whole thing about spells is that you can macro the keystrokes to cast common spells, and can engrave spellbooks so that you don't have to necessarily remember all the combos, or so when a dragon burns up your only copy of Raal's (thankfully non-living in Angband :) ) you don't end up accidentally casting a spell from Tenser's Transformations :)

Spell casters require different habits than warriors, and it's actually easier to win the game as a mage than as a warrior. Let's look at the mage for a second and see some of the things it can do. Find Traps, Satisfy Hunger, Globe of Invulnerability, a whole load of offensive spells, sleep, teleport, illumination, haste... the standard fare, but at least you're not toting around 15 or more items to give you this ability, instead you have a maximum of nine spellbooks. The rest of your kit is saved for loot, maybe ammo, and some spots to swap equipment in/out as needed.

The priest is a good one for testing out the magic classes, being generally a magic-savvy warrior.

Magic in some of the variants is a little easier to get to grips with. Zangband, for instance, comes with 7 realms of magic, each with only 4 spellbooks. There's also classes with innate magical ability, and even a "psychic" class with 12 "abilities" which is actually my favourite class (though a bit tricky to play).



Greg: if you're doing things right, you should be able to finance some Word of Recall scrolls after a few dives. I generally start using them at DLevel 5 (250') or so, as the trip up is tedious, and I can afford it (all it takes is a wand or two, or maybe a staff and you can buy two or three scrolls).

Always make sure you have enough food (6 rations or so should be enough). Restock after each trip down. As you go further down, be discerning in what you bring back to sell. Start ignoring {average} items after a while, then start ignoring {good} items after a while longer. You'll stay down longer, build up XP quicker, and the items you sell will be worth more. Plus they'll start becoming more common, too.

Don't be afraid to run away if you think you can't handle something. Chances are it could be an out-of-depth monster, or even a unique critter with extra toughness and abilities. Much better to run away and get the level regenerated than die :)

Darkstar
19-02-2002, 23:24:38
It's usually easier to win dungeon crawls with mage characters... when the other classes cannot cast spells. Always has been like that. In older dungeon crawls where everyone can learn spells, it's usually the guy that starts with the best food or the oddball class that is the easiest to win with.

40K won't do squat for getting you 1.5mAU, Qaj. So again, what else?

Then, yes, I screwed up. Armor that would ignore Acid is what I really need... But the armorer has only ONE OTHER TRIP had any magic armor whatsoever. I'm near Char Level 27, so that should clue you in how rare that is for me on my machine. Mr. Black Market usually has something, but in the light weight models, and his prices are VERY outrageous, so I haven't really worried much about him.

Closing in on 4 Million clicks for Magilla the Gorilla.

Macros? So you macro the spells? I remember reading SOMETHING about macros, but I'm just getting familiar with the game.

Why is it that my ~Artifacts shows I know of a few, when I've never actually SEEN them? Got the Phial and something else on my list... but I know I haven't ID'd any such thing... Unless they hide under 'Potion of Healing' or 'Empty Bottle' (which you cannot ID...). ;)

And I wouldn't call getting Identity in their 3rd book, and level 11 (or is it 13) early for a mage character. Most won't make it that long... Too many deaths to early traps and sudden ambushes...

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
20-02-2002, 01:07:42
The options for artifacts are not set to preserve. That means that, if an artifact is generated in the game, if you miss it, it's gone.

Switcing preserve on means that if you miss it, there's a chance it'll be generated later on in the game, provided that you haven't identified it or pseudo-identified it, and that it isn't in your possession, in your house, or you haven't sold it (which counts as IDing it).

Since maps regenerate every time you visit a level, it's more "realistic" to play with preserve off. Also, the level feeling you get when you first enter a level will be altered. Preserve off will give you a "You feel there is something special about this level" message if there is an artifact (and I think if there's a pit? Or is it a vault? Or BOTH?) wheras preserve on won't. That makes it a little more difficult to find artifacts in preserve on games, but not substantially.


40k is a pittance. You say it won't buy you anything, and that's true. At the moment. Keep an eye out for Potions of Strength/Con/Cha/Wis/Int/Dex. At about 30k a pop, these are worthwhile investments. And as you go deeper, you'll find that the items you find are worth more, meaning you'll get to that 1.5mil AU before you know it. It's only really in the late game when you've completed stat gain and you have a cool set of gear that money becomes irrelevant. But by that point you'll be looking only for other, better artifacts and equipment, and making sure you gear up for the final few battles before you win the game.


I don't know why you're having such a hard time with traps. Warriors can set off traps left and right and it tends not to kill them. Mages have a harder time, yes, but by level five(?) they get Detects Traps, which if you cast it every screen, keeps you SAFE. And Detect Monsters will help keep you away from anything too nasty. Detection is the key, play your mage cautiously and he'll live to tell about it.

Sir Penguin
20-02-2002, 05:47:36
Originally posted by Darkstar

You cannot SELL a cursed item in Angband, Pengy. It won't even come up on the list of items sellable for the shop. Angband WILL mark the item, if unidentified, as {cursed} at that time. So, for Magilla, it is a good way to check if that shield you found is okay... if the shop keeper won't bid on it, it's cursed.


The point is moot anyway, since with a warrior it's way easier just to pseudo-ID. I was pretty sure on that point, but I was probably assuming, because you can sell cursed rings. I tried to test it, but so far I've found exactly one {cursed} item (in 15 CLevels of a Dunadan warrior), and I was too far away from up stairs to get to the town before I pseudo-IDed it.

SP

Lady_of_Chicken
20-02-2002, 07:25:04
This is Qaj posting as his wife because he can't be bothered changing cookies... again!

Well, after over a week of the Challenge, here's the first official dump. Which means that I am solidly in the lead :) Still, there's plenty of time for Darkstar's character to die so he can post :D

Don't forget, the Challenge finishes 25-FEB-2002 06:10 PM Forum Time (what is that, GMT?)

Enough of that, on with the dump!


[Angband 2.9.3 Character Dump]

Name Magilla Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 18 STR: 15 +0 +5 +0 18/20
Race Human Height 70 INT: 13 +0 -2 +0 11
Class Warrior Weight 186 WIS: 12 +0 -2 +0 10
Title Mercenary Status 1 DEX: 16 +0 +2 +0 18
HP -3/206 Maximize Y CON: 16 +0 +2 +0 18
SP 0/0 Preserve N CHR: 11 +0 -1 +0 10

Level 14 Armor [27,+7] Saving Throw Good
Cur Exp 1232 Fight (+2,+3) Stealth Poor
Max Exp 1232 Melee (+4,+6) Fighting Superb
Adv Exp 1400 Shoot (+2,+0) Shooting Superb
Blows 2/turn Disarming Good
Gold 33 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Fair
Perception Poor
Burden 101.0 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Poor

You are one of several children of a Serf. You are the
black sheep of the family. You have hazel eyes, straight
blond hair, and an average complexion.



[Last Messages]

> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You are no longer bleeding.
> The Dark elven mage gestures in shadow.
> Darkness surrounds you.
> You feel a little better.
> The Dark elven mage hits you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Dark elven mage hits you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You are confused.
> There is a wall in the way!
> The Dark elven mage casts a stinking cloud.
> You die.


[Character Equipment]

a) a Dagger (1d4) (+2,+3)
b) a Light Crossbow (x3) (+0,+0)
c) a Moonstone Ring of Sustain Intelligence
d) an Alexandrite Ring of Slow Digestion
e) (nothing)
f) a Brass Lantern (with 13201 turns of light)
It provides light (radius 2) when fueled.
g) Chain Mail (-2) [14,+3]
h) a Cloak [1,+0]
i) a Large Leather Shield [4,+2]
j) a Metal Cap [3,+0]
k) a Set of Gauntlets [2,+0]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0]


[Character Inventory]

a) 4 Rations of Food
b) 6 Flasks of oil
c) a Metallic Purple Potion of Speed
d) 2 Gloopy Green Potions of Neutralize Poison
e) 4 Scrolls titled "blusat rhov" of Phase Door
f) 2 Scrolls titled "sefti garala" of Word of Recall {40% off}
g) a Scroll titled "yergite sefzun" of Satisfy Hunger
h) a Scroll titled "menin rokpet" of Darkness
i) a Scroll titled "glen ta sna" of Detect Invisible
j) a Brass Rod of Trap Location {@z1!k!d!v}
k) an Iron Rod of Slow Monster {@z5!k!d!v}
l) a Nickel-Plated Wand of Light (14 charges)
m) a Silver Wand of Stinking Cloud (6 charges)
n) an Aspen Staff of Cure Light Wounds (10 charges)
o) an Alexandrite Ring of Slow Digestion
p) Hard Leather Armour (-1) [6,+0]
q) 20 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) {@f1}


As you can see, pretty standard equipment for about DLevel 8 or so. Didn't find any artifacts, killed a few uniques etc. etc. Got confused by the Dark elven mage and was stinking clouded to death. Bah. Need confusion resistance.

I had even bought a nice XBow so I could ping those damn green jellies from afar, and all those other pesky acid creatures. Didn't even get to use it. Oh well! There's time for another crack or two at Magilla before the deadline.

This post was made by posting the dump between [ CODE ] tags and disabling smilies.

Sir Penguin
20-02-2002, 07:37:15
The forum time is determined by the user's options, so you might have a bit of conflict there :).

SP

Darkstar
20-02-2002, 08:59:11
Just RNG, I suppose.

I FIGURED that when it said 'there is something SPECIAL about this level' that meant there was an artifact about. I went looking in all the usual spots... centers of unusual rooms, etc... even dig in. Guess I should have just hung out and kept my teleport rings... Gee, I've missed a lot more the just 2 artifacts then. Interesting... so why do I know about them?

I've bought one strength potion, and found a couple of other stat bonus potions. That Strength potion has been the LAST Stat+ potion EVER OFFERED by any store. Bastards. Making me find them myself. Oh well.

I've got The Gorilla set for the moment. Need to rebuild his AC some, so I can just laugh and laugh at huge stacks of 'o's. That should be a couple to three dives...

I just had a rough time with getting mages to point they could survive that first trap. Got a mage going now, just to play with AngBand's magic and see how it works. That one is cruising along. Finally got enough levels worth of HP to survive those damn traps... Interesting happening with traps. Do they get generated like random monsters after the level is built? I've sprung a few with the mage where I know I've walked over that spot at least 6 times, and no worries. Or is there a luck factor tossed in, to see if you will trigger it? And I find it interesting that some types of traps will not TRIGGER for monsters, but others will. Very curious...

For those that asked, I've dumped a current Magilla down in the other AngBand Challenge discussion thread. Wouldn't be proper here, as Magilla the Gorilla is still moving... ;)

Greg W
20-02-2002, 21:32:43
Wow, I must be coming 2nd so far. :D

[Angband 2.9.3 Character Dump]

Name Magilla Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 18 STR: 15 +0 +5 +0 18/20
Race Human Height 70 INT: 13 +0 -2 +0 11
Class Warrior Weight 186 WIS: 12 +0 -2 +0 10
Title Soldier Status 1 DEX: 16 +0 +2 +0 18
HP -4/144 Maximize Y CON: 16 +0 +2 +0 18
SP 0/0 Preserve N CHR: 11 +0 -1 +0 10

Level 9 Armor [28,+1] Saving Throw Fair
Cur Exp 296 Fight (+2,+3) Stealth Poor
Max Exp 296 Melee (+2,+3) Fighting Superb
Adv Exp 380 Shoot (+2,+0) Shooting Excellent
Blows 1/turn Disarming Fair
Gold 767 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Fair
Perception Poor
Burden 108.1 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Poor

You are one of several children of a Serf. You are the
black sheep of the family. You have hazel eyes, straight
blond hair, and an average complexion.



[Last Messages]

> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!
> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!
> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!
> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!
> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You faint from the lack of food.
> You are paralyzed!
> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You die.
> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!
> Illegal response to a 'more' prompt!


[Character Equipment]

a) a Broad Sword (2d5) (+0,+0)
b) a Sling (x2) (+0,+0)
c) (nothing)
d) (nothing)
e) (nothing)
f) a Brass Lantern (with 842 turns of light)
It provides light (radius 2) when fueled.
g) Chain Mail (-2) [14,+0]
h) a Cloak [1,-1]
i) a Large Leather Shield [4,+0]
j) an Iron Helm [5,+0]
k) a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+0]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0]


[Character Inventory]

a) 4 Flasks of oil
b) 2 Cyan Potions of Boldness
c) 3 Green Speckled Potions of Resist Heat
d) 2 Orange Speckled Potions of Resist Cold
e) a Bubbling Potion of Berserk Strength
f) 2 Dark Blue Potions of Cure Light Wounds
g) a Light Brown Potion of Apple Juice
h) an Icky Green Potion of Slime Mold Juice
i) 2 Scrolls titled "menin rokpet" of Darkness
j) a Scroll titled "see a kho" of Summon Monster
k) a Scroll titled "glen ta sna" of Detect Invisible
l) 3 Scrolls titled "barulk dok" of Object Detection
m) a Nickel-Plated Wand of Light (11 charges)
n) a Nickel-Plated Wand of Light (11 charges)
o) a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+0]
p) a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+0]
q) a Broken Dagger (1d1) (-1,-3)
r) a Broken Dagger (1d1) (-6,-7) {cursed}
It is cursed.
s) a Broken Sword (1d2) (-2,-4)
t) a Dagger (1d4) (+0,+0)
u) 17 Seeker Bolts (4d5) (-3,-2) {cursed}
It is cursed.
v) 32 Iron Shots (1d3) (+0,+0)
w) a Canine Skeleton


[Options]

Adult: Allow purchase of stats using points : no (adult_point_based)
Adult: Allow specification of minimal stats : yes (adult_auto_roller)
Adult: Maximize effect of race/class bonuses : yes (adult_maximize)
Adult: Preserve artifacts when leaving level : no (adult_preserve)
Adult: Restrict the use of stairs/recall : no (adult_ironman)
Adult: Restrict the use of stores/home : no (adult_no_stores)
Adult: Restrict creation of artifacts : no (adult_no_artifacts)
Adult: Randomize some of the artifacts (beta): no (adult_rand_artifacts)
Score: Peek into object creation : no (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation : no (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation : no (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else : no (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info : no (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death : no (score_live)

Greg W
20-02-2002, 21:33:49
Grr, double post. :mad:

Darkstar
21-02-2002, 00:01:58
Greg... I use a shovel to get them out. That was probably the single best purchase I made, early on. Sometimes, I think my Magilla was a miner that just moonlighted as an adventurer.

Yeah... I really dislike how every level regenerates. Pain in the rump, when you just want to go store side. But it's double profits, if you don't get into a food crunch.

Sir Penguin
21-02-2002, 08:24:51
I've got him up to level 21 so far today. I've found a spear of Westernesse (+1) (I found a Main Gauche of Extra attacks (+2) on the same level, but I'm getting 3 attacks now anyway). For artifacts, I've found the Phial, and the Cloak of Thorongil. But I get what I pay for, since I've only been down as far as 400' :). Now I'm off to try to find out what my sling of Extra Might (+2) does for me.

SP

Sir Penguin
21-02-2002, 08:35:13
Aha, it ads to the damage multiplier. Now, if only they made 1d4 sling ammo :).

SP

MDA
22-02-2002, 00:03:30
Not my best run - I got cornered by Brodda on a special level, thought I'd be picking up the Phial. I tried to run, cornered myself and had him down to one stinking asterisk to my zero (exactly zero) hit points. I swing and MISS, he swings, I die. - problem - no teleport or phase door scrolls, no speed potions, and my armor and stats had been beat to hell beforehand. Better to die at Brodda's hands than to be laid low by a white icky thing, I suppose. :)

Rest in peace, muchacho.

[Angband 2.9.3 Character Dump]

Name Magilla Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 18 Str: 15 +0 +5 +0 18/20 17
Race Human Height 70 INT: 13 +0 -2 +0 11
Class Warrior Weight 186 Wis: 12 +0 -2 +0 10 9
Title Veteran Status 1 DEX: 16 +0 +2 +0 18
HP -1/228 Maximize Y Con: 16 +0 +2 +0 18 12
SP 0/0 Preserve N CHR: 11 +0 -1 +0 10

Level 17 Armor [24,+2] Saving Throw Very Good
Cur Exp 2618 Fight (+13,+2) Stealth Poor
Max Exp 2618 Melee (+20,+11) Fighting Heroic
Adv Exp 2900 Shoot (+13,+4) Shooting Heroic
Blows 1/turn Disarming Good
Gold 737 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Good
Perception Fair
Burden 82.1 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Fair

You are one of several children of a Serf. You are the
black sheep of the family. You have hazel eyes, straight
blond hair, and an average complexion.



[Last Messages]

> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> Brodda, the Easterling misses you.
> You hit Brodda, the Easterling.
> It was a great hit!
> Brodda, the Easterling hits you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> Brodda, the Easterling hits you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> Brodda, the Easterling hits you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> Brodda, the Easterling hits you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You miss Brodda, the Easterling.
> Brodda, the Easterling hits you.
> You die.


[Character Equipment]

a) a Scimitar of Slay Undead (2d5) (+7,+9)
b) a Sling (x2) (+0,+4)
c) a Bronze Ring of Feather Falling
d) a Gold Ring of Searching (+2)
e) a Bone Amulet of Slow Digestion
f) a Brass Lantern (with 6862 turns of light)
It provides light (radius 2) when fueled.
g) Chain Mail (-2) [14,+1]
h) a Cloak [1,-1]
i) a Large Leather Shield [4,+0]
j) an Iron Helm [5,+0]
k) (nothing)
l) (nothing)


[Character Inventory]

a) 3 Pieces of Elvish Waybread
b) 3 Flasks of oil
c) 5 Cyan Potions of Boldness
d) 2 Viscous Pink Potions of Heroism
e) 6 Orange Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
f) a Metallic Red Potion of Slow Poison
g) a Gloopy Green Potion of Neutralize Poison
h) 4 Scrolls titled "sefti garala" of Word of Recall
i) 4 Scrolls titled "manion mon org" of Identify
j) a Scroll titled "unjo micdan" of Blessing
k) a Silver Wand of Stinking Cloud (8 charges)
l) a Redwood Staff of Detect Invisible (11 charges)
m) 4 Iron Shots (1d3) (+0,+0)


[Home Inventory]

a) 6 Pieces of Elvish Waybread

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
22-02-2002, 00:24:39
Seeing your home inventory, MDA, reminds me of the people on Usenet who collect Slime Molds and inscribe them with names like {Harry}, {Edward} and the like.

And if you'd just been wearing shoes, you would have beat Brodda :) Nothing like those critical hits to the toenail to ruin your day.

Sir Penguin
22-02-2002, 03:11:16
Darkstar: last night I sold a {cursed}, non-pseudo-IDed whip to the weapons shop :).

SP--has Magilla up to level 26 (700')

Sir Penguin
22-02-2002, 08:23:57
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
Darkstar: last night I sold a {cursed}, non-pseudo-IDed whip to the weapons shop :).

I keep on coming across special feeling levels, but I always finish them off without finding the artifact. I keep on getting bored and putting the special feeling down to the orc/jelly pit that comes with the level. I hope I haven't missed 5 artifacts, I really need some.

SP--has Magilla up to level 28 (at 900')

edit: Oops, wrong button!

SP

MDA
22-02-2002, 14:30:20
Originally posted by Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
And if you'd just been wearing shoes


You sound like my mother.:lol:

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
22-02-2002, 18:33:10
Heh :)

SP, check your artifact list under ~ to see if you've missed any.

Yes, pits give you a special feeling. It's unlikely but not impossible that you'd have both a pit and an artifact on the level. But clear it out anyway. Except for jelly pits - they're low in XP and you get very few rewards out of them. Not worth the effort. But make sure you scour the rest of the level for that artifact!


I currently have Magilla 3 up to 15th, and he's looking pretty good at the moment. I haven't been down past DLevel 6. It's nice to have a human warrior - they level FAST. But then, CLevel isn't everything. Without the right equipment (and the right strategies with certain monsters), even a CLevel 50 character is screwed.

Darkstar
22-02-2002, 22:06:34
SP... currently at CL28... Max depth was 18th level, and headed back down. You should pass me pretty soon...

Ah. So jelly rooms do give you that special feeling. None of the other zoos have. Wow. What fun.

Sir Penguin
22-02-2002, 23:50:04
Apparently I didn't miss any. Hurrah! I'd like to see more uniques; so far I've met mostly the ones I missed on the lower (higher?) levels.

So did you ever decide on the time zone in which to set the time when the challenge ends, Qaj?

SP

Sir Penguin
23-02-2002, 09:27:53
End of the day's results: Level 30, 1000'. No more artifacts :(. I really need the black market to come up with a potion of Strength. The difference between 3 hits/round and 2 hits/round for me is 18/30 - 18/20 STR.

SP

Darkstar
23-02-2002, 10:57:35
Well, you've passed me, SP. I'm just about to hit level 29.

So... can you train the animals to be your friends? How the heck do you get the dogs out to the farmer, since you can't talk, and they are right where they are supposed to be. Will Mr Unique Hobbit tell you how to harvest mushrooms then?

And why the heck doesn't Infravision work consistantly?

Sir Penguin
23-02-2002, 21:19:41
I know you can tame animals in Zangband, but I don't think you can in Angband (at least, there's no pet command). Just kill Farmer Maggot for his {good} item :).

SP

Sir Penguin
24-02-2002, 09:43:19
I'm up to level 33, at 1450 feet (getting into stat-gain depth!). I found a nice little set of artifact hard leather armour (coincidentally, it had the same name as my Zangband CL 50 character's mithril armour :)), and promptly destroyed it by finding out what a scroll of Curse Armour does. Which was too bad, because the armour brought my strength up enough to do 4 hits/round with my Defender rapier. I came across some artifact head gear with +2 to INT and WIS. It is also kind enough to give me telepathy :coolgrin:. I don't know what special properties any of my artifact/ego items have, because in the entire game I've come across exactly one *ID* scroll.

SP

Darkstar
25-02-2002, 07:23:30
[Angband 2.9.3 Character Dump]

Name Magilla Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 18 STR: 16 +0 +5 +0 18/30
Race Human Height 70 INT: 13 +0 -2 +0 11
Class Warrior Weight 186 WIS: 12 +0 -2 +0 10
Title Champion Status 1 DEX: 18 +0 +2 +0 18/20
HP 416/416 Maximize Y CON: 16 +0 +2 +0 18
SP 0/0 Preserve N CHR: 11 +0 -1 +0 10

Level 29 Armor [28,+26] Saving Throw Excellent
Cur Exp 74970 Fight (+2,+3) Stealth Poor
Max Exp 74970 Melee (+8,+12) Fighting Legendary
Adv Exp 75000 Shoot (+11,+9) Shooting Legendary
Blows 3/turn Disarming Excellent
Gold 86783 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Very Good
Perception Poor
Burden 150.1 lbs Infra 10 ft Searching Poor

You are one of several children of a Serf. You are the
black sheep of the family. You have hazel eyes, straight
blond hair, and an average complexion.



[Character Equipment]

a) a Battle Axe of Extra Attacks (2d8) (+6,+9) (+2 attacks)
b) a Long Bow (x3) (+9,+9)
c) a Mithril Ring of Sustain Dexterity
d) an Aquamarine Ring of Sustain Strength
e) a Bone Amulet of Slow Digestion
f) a Brass Lantern (with 5103 turns of light)
It provides light (radius 2) when fueled.
g) Chain Mail of Resist Acid (-2) [14,+7]
h) a Cloak [1,+4]
i) a Small Metal Shield of Resistance [3,+11]
j) a Metal Cap of Infravision [3,+4] (+1)
k) a Set of Cesti [5,-1]
l) a Pair of Soft Leather Boots [2,-1]


[Character Inventory]

a) 4 Flasks of oil
b) 7 Gloopy Green Potions of Neutralize Poison
c) a Metallic Purple Potion of Speed
d) 6 Smoky Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
e) 8 Scrolls titled "blusat rhov" of Phase Door
f) 9 Scrolls titled "sefti garala" of Word of Recall
g) 10 Scrolls titled "yergite sefzun" of Satisfy Hunger
h) 3 Brass Rods of Trap Location
i) 4 Magnesium Rods of Door/Stair Location
j) 4 Aluminum-Plated Rods of Illumination
k) 3 Nickel-Plated Rods of Light
l) a Runed Rod of Sleep Monster
m) a Silver Rod of Lightning Bolts
n) 2 Zirconium Rods of Fire Bolts
o) a Silver Wand of Stinking Cloud
p) a Cedar Staff of Perception (1 charge)
q) a Dagger (Defender) (2d4) (+10,+5) [+5] (+4 to stealth)
It might have hidden powers.
r) a Tulwar of Extra Attacks (2d4) (+9,+6) (+2 attacks)
s) a Spear (Defender) (1d6) (+7,+6) [+5] (+3 to stealth)
It might have hidden powers.
t) a Shovel (1d2) (+6,+2) (+1)
u) 38 Arrows (1d4) (+0,+0) {=g}


[Home Inventory]

a) 51 Flasks of oil
b) 17 Gloopy Green Potions of Neutralize Poison
c) 12 Metallic Purple Potions of Speed
d) 4 Silver Speckled Potions of Restore Life Levels
e) 2 Brown Potions of Restore Strength
f) 3 Clotted Red Potions of Restore Intelligence
g) 2 Shimmering Potions of Restore Dexterity
h) 3 Oily Yellow Potions of Restore Charisma
i) 4 Scrolls titled "sefti garala" of Word of Recall
j) 7 Scrolls titled "adok vivjo" of Recharging
k) 7 Scrolls titled "yergite sefzun" of Satisfy Hunger
l) 2 Titanium Rods of Acid Bolts
m) a Silver Rod of Lightning Bolts
n) a Gold-Plated Rod of Frost Bolts
o) a Nickel Rod of Cold Balls
p) a Cedar Staff of Perception (0 charges)
q) a Pearl Ring of Teleportation {uncursed}
r) Metal Brigandine Armour (-3) [19,+1]
s) a Large Metal Shield [5,+6]
t) a Set of Leather Gloves of Slaying (+2,+2) [1,+2]
u) a Rapier of Slay Dragon (1d6) (+9,+9)
v) a Short Sword of Freezing (1d7) (+8,+3)
w) a Two-Handed Sword (3d6) (+9,+9)


[Options]

Adult: Allow purchase of stats using points : no (adult_point_based)
Adult: Allow specification of minimal stats : yes (adult_auto_roller)
Adult: Maximize effect of race/class bonuses : yes (adult_maximize)
Adult: Preserve artifacts when leaving level : no (adult_preserve)
Adult: Restrict the use of stairs/recall : no (adult_ironman)
Adult: Restrict the use of stores/home : no (adult_no_stores)
Adult: Restrict creation of artifacts : no (adult_no_artifacts)
Adult: Randomize some of the artifacts (beta): no (adult_rand_artifacts)
Score: Peek into object creation : no (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation : no (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation : no (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else : no (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info : no (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death : no (score_live)


Still living. But it's past midnight locally here, making it the 25th.

If only I had known how to take the express elevator back DOWN earlier (I discovered that Friday night), I think I could have done better. Oh well.

Now... where's a nice little Roguelike game that lets a Mage/Wizard put spells into their own book? :D

And how come in ZAngband, a Vampire character cannot feed off the local warm blooded? It seems odd to have to worry about food...

Sir Penguin
25-02-2002, 08:12:49
Well, if that's the case, I might as well do mine, too. Just to stay legal :).


[Angband 2.9.3 Character Dump]

Name Magilla Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 18 STR: 16 +0 +5 +2 18/50
Race Human Height 70 INT: 13 +0 -2 +2 13
Class Warrior Weight 186 WIS: 16 +0 -2 +6 18/20
Title Hero Status 1 DEX: 18/43 +0 +2 +0 18/63
HP 468/468 Maximize Y CON: 18/18 +0 +2 +0 18/38
SP 0/0 Preserve N CHR: 18/97 +0 -1 +0 18/87

Level 33 Armor [32,+48] Saving Throw Superb
Cur Exp 245447 Fight (+3,+3) Stealth Excellent
Max Exp 245447 Melee (+13,+13) Fighting Legendary
Adv Exp 275000 Shoot (+14,+7) Shooting Legendary
Blows 4/turn Disarming Excellent
Gold 133205 Shots 2/turn Magic Device Excellent
Perception Excellent
Burden 121.7 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Excellent

You are one of several children of a Serf. You are the
black sheep of the family. You have hazel eyes, straight
blond hair, and an average complexion.



[Character Equipment]

a) a Rapier (Defender) (1d6) (+10,+10) [+1] (+4 to stealth) {@0!k!d!v}
It might have hidden powers.
b) a Light Crossbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+11,+7) (+1)
c) a Carnelian Ring of Strength (+2)
d) a Gold Ring of Searching (+6) {10% off}
e) a Pewter Amulet of Wisdom (+4)
f) The Phial of Galadriel
It provides light (radius 3) forever.
It might have hidden powers.
g) Chain Mail of Resistance (-2) [14,+19]
h) a Cloak of Aman [1,+12] (+1 to stealth)
It might have hidden powers.
i) a Shield of Deflection [10,+3]
j) The Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil [2,+10] (+2)
It might have hidden powers.
k) a Set of Gauntlets [2,+0]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0]


[Character Inventory]

a) 28 Orange Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
b) 8 Smoky Potions of Cure Critical Wounds {25% off}
c) a Dark Red Potion of Healing
d) 2 Silver Speckled Potions of Restore Life Levels
e) 35 Scrolls titled "blusat rhov" of Phase Door {10% off}
f) 5 Scrolls titled "wexsri ishwerg" of Teleportation
g) 9 Scrolls titled "sefti garala" of Word of Recall {!*, 50% off}
h) 4 Scrolls titled "yergite sefzun" of Satisfy Hunger {10% off}
i) a Brass Rod of Trap Location
j) a Zinc-Plated Rod of Teleport Other
k) 2 Gold-Plated Rods of Frost Bolts
l) a Copper Wand of Drain Life (5 charges)
m) a Cedar Staff of Perception (18 charges)
n) a Shovel (1d2) (+6,+2) (+1) {@0}
o) 13 Bolts (1d5) (+2,+3) {@f1=g}


[Home Inventory]

a) a Furry Mushroom of Restore Strength
b) 5 Brown Potions of Restore Strength
c) a Clotted Red Potion of Restore Intelligence
d) 2 Gold Speckled Potions of Restore Wisdom
e) a Shimmering Potion of Restore Dexterity {10% off}
f) 5 Vermilion Potions of Restore Constitution
g) an Oily Yellow Potion of Restore Charisma
h) 68 Scrolls titled "blusat rhov" of Phase Door {10% off}
i) 49 Scrolls titled "sefti garala" of Word of Recall {!*, 25% off}
j) 3 Scrolls titled "murlech" of Remove Curse
k) 21 Scrolls titled "yergite sefzun" of Satisfy Hunger {10% off}
l) a Brass Rod of Trap Location
m) a Nickel Rod of Cold Balls
n) a Cedar Staff of Perception (10 charges)
o) a Cedar Staff of Perception (4 charges)
p) an Ivory Amulet of Charisma (+2)
q) a Small Sword of Westernesse (1d6) (+4,+6) (+2) {@0!k!d!v}
r) 10 Bolts (1d5) (+6,+7) {@f1=g}
s) 10 Bolts (1d5) (+6,+3)
t) 26 Seeker Arrows (4d4) (+2,+3)


I would have liked a better amulet, but hey, saving throw isn't that bad a thing to have. More CCW potions would have been welcome. But it's all made up for by the Telepathy that that cap gave me :).

SP

Darkstar
25-02-2002, 08:47:50
I would STILL like to find an artifact in Angband. I downloaded Zangband, fired it up, and got the Phial right off... strange strange.

Next time, SP, I might be able to beat you. Now that I'm up to basic journeyman with Angband. :D

MDA
25-02-2002, 16:02:22
Darkstar - I think shift-u will activate the vampire's special "racial" attack - lifedrain - it adds to your food total IIRC

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
25-02-2002, 16:23:24
Silly me, I got distracted yesterday by some other game, or I might have had a chance to win this thing! Not that it would have mattered - since I rolled up this character, I can't roll up the next. I can only go for the prestige :)


[Angband 2.9.3 Character Dump]

Name Magilla Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 18 STR: 16 +0 +5 +4 18/70
Race Human Height 70 INT: 13 +0 -2 +0 11
Class Warrior Weight 186 WIS: 12 +0 -2 +0 10
Title Swordsman Status 1 Dex: 16 +0 +2 +1 18/10 16
HP 362/362 Maximize Y Con: 16 +0 +2 +1 18/10 18
SP 0/0 Preserve N CHR: 11 +0 -1 +0 10

Level 25 Armor [41,+39] Saving Throw Excellent
Cur Exp 13188 Fight (+1,+4) Stealth Poor
Max Exp 13188 Melee (+10,+13) Fighting Heroic
Adv Exp 17500 Shoot (+6,+0) Shooting Heroic
Blows 3/turn Disarming Very Good
Gold 13594 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Very Good
Perception Poor
Burden 100.6 lbs Infra 30 ft Searching Poor

You are one of several children of a Serf. You are the
black sheep of the family. You have hazel eyes, straight
blond hair, and an average complexion.



[Character Equipment]

a) a Dagger of Westernesse (1d4) (+9,+9) (+1)
b) a Light Crossbow (x3) (+5,+0)
c) a Carnelian Ring of Strength (+3)
d) a Rhodonite Ring of Protection [+11]
e) a Brass Amulet of Resist Acid
f) The Phial of Galadriel {floor, 200ft}
It provides light (radius 3) forever.
It might have hidden powers.
g) Shining Dragon Scale Mail (-2) [30,+10]
h) a Cloak [1,+5]
i) a Small Metal Shield [3,+4]
j) a Hard Leather Cap of Infravision [2,+2] (+3) {Wormtongue, 350ft}
k) a Set of Gauntlets [2,+2]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+4]


[Character Inventory]

a) 3 Pieces of Elvish Waybread
b) 3 Blue Mushrooms
c) a Dark Red Mushroom
d) a Light Blue Mushroom
e) a Green Mushroom
f) 2 Metallic Purple Potions of Speed
g) 5 Smoky Potions of Cure Critical Wounds {@q1!*}
h) a Purple Speckled Potion
i) a Chartreuse Potion
j) 20 Scrolls titled "blusat rhov" of Phase Door {@r1}
k) 7 Scrolls titled "sefti garala" of Word of Recall {!*@r2, 25% off}
l) a Scroll titled "tri umere"
m) 3 Brass Rods of Trap Location {@z1!k!d!v}
n) an Aluminum Rod
o) a Zinc-Plated Wand
p) a Mistletoe Staff of Slow Monsters (8 charges)
q) a Bone Amulet of Slow Digestion
r) a Dagger (1d4)
s) a Light Crossbow (x3) {good}
t) 25 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) {@f1}


[Home Inventory]

a) a Cedar Staff of Perception (11 charges)
b) a Cedar Staff of Perception (10 charges)
c) an Iron Helm [5,+5] {10% off}
d) a Steel Helm [6] {average}


The cap early on came in handy, allowed me to see at least warm-blooded invisible creatures. But then along came the dagger at some point, which gave me See Invisible. I should really swap in that steel helm I have back in my house, enchant it up a bit.

The dagger sucks as a weapon for base damage, but with the +9 bonus and three attacks per round, plus the bonus to dam from my strength, I was getting a fairly respectable 43.5 average damage, plus resists and stat gains.

The best find, though, was the armor, which I found on the floor at about 500ft. Shining Dragon Scale Mail, increase in AC of 40, light and dark resistance, and activate for breathe light or dark. The activation sucks, as it always has in Angband - low damage, high recharge times. But for such an early find, it's indispensable. For now :)

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
25-02-2002, 16:36:11
OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

The 11th Angband Challenge is about to end! If you haven't done so, and you're logged on, the cut off time is in about 2 hours (1 hour and 45 minutes or so at time of this post - the actual cut-off is 2002-Feb-25 1815 GMT) so get that character dump in.

If you're unsure how to dump your character, here's how (in Windows-based OSes):


Open Angband
Open your character
When the character has loaded, press shift-c to display your character information
Press f to dump the info to a file
Enter a filename (or press return to use the default)
Close Angband
Navigate to the $ANGBAND_ROOT\lib\user directory


The dump file is a regular text file you can copy and paste into a post between [ code ][ /code ] tags.

Posting a death dump is similar, just hit f at the tombstone and follow the last three steps above.


If no other posts are made by the cut-off time, the following shall stand as the official round 11 score.

Sir Penguin with CLevel 33 (alive)
Darkstar with CLevel 29 (alive)
Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm with CLevel 25 (alive)
MDA with CLevel17 (dead)
Greg W with CLevel9 (dead)

The scoresheet will be revised should further posts be made.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
25-02-2002, 18:21:49
Angband Challenge 11 is officially over. Congratulations to Sir Penguin, and thanks to all who participated.

Sir Penguin, as the winner, gets to choose both the variant for the next challenge, and also the character. My only advice to Sir Penguin is: don't make it too sadistically difficult :) I'd like to keep the characters easyish until about #15, let people get their feet wet without getting overwhelmed. But feel free to roll up a ZAngband Yeek Arcane High Mage after that :)

I would also like to schedule Challenge 12 to start about the same time next week (2002-MAR-04 1800GMT or thereabouts). As with #11, official notice will be posted by myself in a new thread with title ANGBAND: Challenge #12. Accept no substitutes :D

Sir Penguin
25-02-2002, 20:21:20
Hooray!

It's interesting to see the different philosophies with regard to inventory items. I put an emphasis on blinking/teleportation + healing, and Darkstar seems to like speed and healing. I'm not saying that one's better than the other, it's just interesting.

Hopefully, my character will be rolled in ZAngband 2.4.0 (or thereabouts). Unfortunately, I haven't found the Linux source code (or binaries, for that matter) yet. If I can't I'll just stick with Vanilla Angband 2.9.3. I dislike [Z] 2.6 that much :).

SP

MDA
25-02-2002, 20:47:08
One thing I find as a drawback to speed over teleportation - you can't outrun a ranged attack.

It points and curses...
you die!

Still, speed rocks when you're a melee heavy character, it turns Magilla into a human Cuisinart.:)

I have a really bad habit of forgetting about that scroll of teleportation I kept for hopeless situations.

Sir Penguin
25-02-2002, 20:52:13
On the other hand, you might teleport into the middle of an Ogre pit, or right next to the unique that just brought you down to 60 HP in three hits.

I just downloaded the [Z] 2.7.0 source. If it compiles and runs, maybe I'll force you guys to use it :D.

SP

Sir Penguin
25-02-2002, 20:59:51
Didn't even compile :).

SP

Goob
25-02-2002, 21:49:02
It has been enjoyable reading all your adventures.

Two others here at work and myself went through a Zangband TK kick last fall and played quite a bit, I think I got a 38th level warrior, then I found a GCV, greed and temptation overwhelmed me and so did some greater spider god. :(

SP, what Zangband 2.6 changes did you dislike so much again, just the wilderness settings?


I think I will be up for Angband challenge #12, though I'd prefer a Zangband dive I'd be game for anything, though I suppose I will have to lose my TK dependecy.

MDA
25-02-2002, 22:34:40
Did Tim Baker ever resurface to continue work on TK?

Sir Penguin
25-02-2002, 23:24:30
Actually I didn't get much past the wilderness before I lost interest in 2.6. I got annoyed by the fact that I couldn't just run in a straight line to get to the next town, I actually had to work to find towns, and I had to do even more work to keep track of what was where. In 2.4 the surface was very straightforward; I knew my way around, and I could remember where I'd put things from day to day.I've got the 2.6 source, so I'll give it another try. If I can manage to compile it. The ZAngband people have an arcane compilation procedure dealing with some counter-intuitively named makefile (which I haven't coerced into working yet). They don't have a configure script, so I have to go through the makefile to disable what the compile is choking on (main-xaw.c).

SP

Darkstar
26-02-2002, 00:01:51
With a fighter, I do prefer speed. Although I am not adverse to keeping a teleport of some form about... Speed is prefered because... I try to always keep in mind my retreat path. With a good high speed, you can clear out the odd minor blocking you and just run away to your retreat, or run far enough to down some good fix me ups, and then go into heavy Missile action, for instance... or wand and rod zapping... or whatever.

Phase Door and Teleport... they should only be used, in my play style, when your retreat is suddenly blocked by a new random that is currently 'too tough' for you to get through before that which you are running from finishes killing you. Mind you, I haven't dived the deep depths... it's just a carryover play style from all the other games. Speed generally the single most important key tactically... more attacks, able to disengange/withdrawl at will, able to open up range to make use of ranged attacks. Knowledge of the magic items and high carrying capacity is generally the key strategy in dungeon crawls... although the balance of spells usable and how often will shift that from strength to spell use...

I think I also engage my use of speed before most people would engage their use teleport... as I am quite happy to go crank, and stand toe to toe with the tough uniques in Angband until I'm down to 25% HP... If I have a heal, I'll go even further, quaff the Heal, and finish the bastard off. Unfortunately, Heals were very rare in my game. I found more stat potions then heals. And the black market, temple, and alchemist all sold more stat potions individually then they sold Heal together.

If I had realized early on that wands, staves, and rod use was based on Wisdom and Intelligence, I'd have bought all those Wisdom potions offered. There were at least 8 offerred. And at least 3 Intelligence potions that I can recall. I lost count of the Charisma potions.

I found several stat potions pretty shallow, compared to SP. What is their levels supposed to be?

And I still haven't found out what Slaying does. So what did my gloves of Slaying grant my Magilla? I found out what Freezing, Slay Undead, Blessed, Defender, and the others did.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
26-02-2002, 00:22:14
MDA, according to deja.com, Tim Baker disappeared off the Usenet Angband scene around May last year without saying why. He did maintain Vanilla Angband until the 5th of August 2001, and the Internet Archive shows that he last updated his Tk website on August 13 2001, presumably to link to the new release and post a list of fixes/enhancements.

Since then, he closed down his mailing list, his Yahoo! group, isn't answering his email and took down (or let lapse) his Web page.

A few people have talked about resurrecting Tk, but nothing seems to have ahppened since the last Tk release.

I think you're going to have to get used to playing the regular version again.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
26-02-2002, 00:43:58
Slaying is easy. It gives a + to-hit and + to-dam. That's it.

Speed is important for all the reasons Darkstar states, but you'll come to a sticky end when you fight something that can teleport to you, or you to it, and you're trying to run away. A nice teleport staff will get you out of a tight spot, and a few scrolls in case your staff is roasted by a dragon or something.

My personal favourite, of course, is Dimension Door, available to certain spellcasters in ZAngband. Especially when coupled with some high-powered offensive spells (ie. Sorcery and Death, or Mindcrafting's CLevel 25+ Mindwave).

Sir Penguin
26-02-2002, 00:54:47
I seem to recall that stat gain potions get (comparatively) common around 1500' and deeper. Charisma gain potions and stat restore potions appear earlier. Slaying just gives you the bonus to your to-hit and to-dam, as far as I know.

I've managed to get 2.4.0 compiled. I just had to mess around with the $LIBS flag to get rid of all the graphical stuff and termcap references.

So we'll be using ZAngband 2.4.0 for the next challenge. Those of you who are Windowsly inclined can download the install file from:

ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/Angband/Variant/ZAngband/zangband-240-win.exe

or any of the other mirrors listed on www.zangband.org. Anybody else probably has to get the source zip and install the damn thing yourself.

SP

Goob
26-02-2002, 15:30:05
I get my files from the FTP site: ftp://clockwork.dementia.org/angband/Variant/ZAngband/

SP 2.7 didn't compile on your machine? Is that because you are using Linux?

Sir Penguin
26-02-2002, 22:38:33
Actually I think it's because I didn't know what I was doing and tried to generate a config file and Makefile. I might be able to now if the package follows the same makefile structure as 2.4.0.

SP

Sean
26-02-2002, 22:49:59
I’ve been avidly following this thread and the related ones, but I don’t know why. Could someone tell me?

Sir Penguin
26-02-2002, 23:05:42
Perhaps you played Rogue in a past life?

SP

Goob
27-02-2002, 18:15:13
Or perhaps the word Angband arrouses you?

Or am I just projecting...:bounce:

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
28-02-2002, 17:13:39
SP, I hope you're working on the next character for the Challenge due to start on the 4th. *pester*

Sir Penguin
28-02-2002, 17:35:59
Actually, it's done, I just haven't been to the computer lab to email it to you yet :).

SP

Sir Penguin
02-03-2002, 20:11:23
So what's your email address, Qaj :)?

Of course, I could start the thread, and just attach the 5KB zip file, but then that would be unofficial :).

SP

Goob
04-03-2002, 16:42:54
Is today the beginning of Angband #12?

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
04-03-2002, 18:01:57
It should be :)

SP, send it to bogusantispam_ac@ausi.com

Without the antispam, of course :)

I'll put the official thread up sometime this afternoon, if I get it in time. But right now I've got some stupid IT meeting to go to. Bleah.

Sir Penguin
04-03-2002, 20:40:15
Character dispatched.

SP

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
04-03-2002, 21:07:42
Character received.

What's the ZAngband version? From your last posts, I'm guessing 2.4.0?

Sir Penguin
05-03-2002, 03:59:27
Yes, I'm using ZAngband 2.4.0.

SP