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View Full Version : Half-Life 2 half a year away again


Venom
25-09-2003, 16:16:06
Ok, not quite half a year away, but still further off than the end of this month. Getting to the point, Valve has made it official and announced that Half-Life 2 will not be making it's Sept 30 ship date. Instead they're aiming for a "holiday release" which means anything between the beginning of October and Christmas.

http://gamespydaily.com/news/fullstory.asp?id=5349 is just one of many links to get you the direct info.

fp
25-09-2003, 16:18:23
Doom 3 is gonna be pushed back too. Quite possible even a year later than originally planned.

Perhaps iD and Valve both finally realised that some people are gonna need technology capable of running their games before they spend money on them?

Venom
25-09-2003, 16:21:11
Doom 3 is probably at least 6 months away right now. Throw in your usual "event" game delays and it will be a year before Doom 3.

And here I thought Valve was actually going to pull it off, and be one of the first companies to actually release a highly anticipated game on time.

King_Ghidra
26-09-2003, 08:40:54
the whole fiasco with this steam thing is making me think valve isn't as clever or as savvy as i thought

Nav
26-09-2003, 10:36:44
I honestly can't think of a more stupid idea than launching one of the most anticipated games of the 21st century over the internet.... the internet will be brought to it's knees... (if it actually had knees that is)

Venom
26-09-2003, 12:11:31
Many an ISP will be crushed that day.

No longer Trippin
27-09-2003, 06:40:06
Doom 3 was on track until people started bitching about multiplayer not being included, then all of a sudden they hit mysterious problems and had to push it back. Valve was on track for a Sept. 30th release and that they said they dictated when the game would be released, not Vivendi, which wanted it pushed back to the holidays. Add in the Steam fuckups which they couldn't address until they got the game running on nvidia's shitty FX cards since nvidia owns the majority of the damned market (five times as much optimization time as ATI (true D9) ) - it's no wonder Steam was forgotten about since they thought it worked much better than it did.

They also have three damned copies coming out.
Single Player (40-50 bucks)
Single with Current Multiplayer (average gamer, 50-60 bucks)
Subscription (cheapest for short term, they say the best value for the long term - highly dubious there though - 9.95 a month, game will only work, even single player long as you are paying)

With the last two based on steam, the last one completely - I can see why it's been shoved back. They've only recently started truly checking the application over as they've only just now got the time. HL2 was available for DL for about an hour on Steam yesterday when troubleshooting - though you couldn't grab it as they were smart enough to lock it from generally DLing, but you could see it up. Seems like Steam is the damned reason and now Vivendi is happy because they are getting the release date they want.

Harry Seldon
30-09-2003, 18:30:06
For all the backpedaling, it had better not be a patch away from being a real game when it ships.

Venom
30-09-2003, 18:57:20
That's goddamn right.

Harry Seldon
30-09-2003, 20:12:00
And what is steam, anyway? An engine? A P2P network?

No longer Trippin
01-10-2003, 03:01:34
A lot of shit.

fp
01-10-2003, 08:25:54
Steam is basically Valve's version of the Stardock thing for GalCiv (if you're familiar with that).

Funkodrom
01-10-2003, 08:41:12
I'm not, brief description?

fp
01-10-2003, 08:49:23
Own goal?

fp
01-10-2003, 08:50:34
Info here:
http://www.galciv.com/sdcentral.html

Funkodrom
01-10-2003, 08:55:04
So it's like Battle.net then?

I don't even really know what GalCiv is. I don't play games any more.

fp
01-10-2003, 08:55:28
Maybe it's not quite the same thing. Fuck it, I don't care.

Funkodrom
01-10-2003, 08:58:20
I thought they were having problems with some kind of steam related graphical effect. :lol:

No longer Trippin
01-10-2003, 10:13:00
Steam functions in a couple ways for HL2.

The people who buy the game with multiplayer available (there is a non multiplayer launch as well) will use steam to connect (have to) and it makes minute code changes every now and then to keep hackers from making cheats, or at least limits them.

For the subscription service, you log on and get to play any of valve's games for 10 bucks a month, though you can't just subscribe for a month then quit after dling HL2 - it will need steam. The only version which won't is the single player only, and it will still use steam to get patches I'd imagine. Oh, and with steam, you don't get a choice of patches - they are automatically downloaded and installed in many instances - others just are untold (to you) minor code changes for anti-hacking. Mainly a way to make more and more money for less work. TFT 2 for example those who don't have the subscription service will have to pay for, CS 2 may or may not be included in the retail version to begin with. The only way you won't have to pay is with subscription, then you get all releases for that tenner a month.

Funkodrom
01-10-2003, 10:50:34
This subscription based thing is really shit for people like me who don't play games very much.

Venom
01-10-2003, 12:11:40
God that graduated pay rate pisses me off.

Darkstar
01-10-2003, 18:08:49
Funko... yep. But it's where all game companies WANT to be... steady money for doing almost no work. Imagine if Eidos could have ginked it so that to play Champ Man, you had to SUBSCRIBE for $10 a month? And if you stopped, boom! No more gaming!

Harry Seldon
01-10-2003, 19:48:53
I refuse to buy games that require subscriptions. If I buy a game, I should be able to play it however and whenever I want. That's fine if I can't MP on the internet but if I can't even duke it out at a lan party then fuck 'em.

No longer Trippin
01-10-2003, 20:22:34
It won't require a subscription.
-cheapest - SP only, no MP
-midrange - SP with MP, have to pay for new add-ons, like team fortress and SP add-ons
-long term swindling - have to pay 9,95 a month - nothing up front. Get access to all valves games long as you pay, once you stop, the games don't work. You obviously need broadband for this one.

fp
01-10-2003, 20:42:11
That long term swindling option really is an astronomically bad deal. I wonder how many suckers are going to fall for that one.

Venom
02-10-2003, 00:10:52
My bet is a whole lot. Considering how big Half-Life got, it's naturaly to assume HL2 will get just as modded.

No longer Trippin
08-10-2003, 04:41:37
But you can run the mods without paying for them - that is until Valve buys out the modders code and then charges you for it if you have the MP version without steam, then you'd need steam. TFT2 will be an add-on, not free, so steam will get you that along with the few SP add-ons that are ten minutes in length.

On the bright side, Vivendi and Vavle have announced that HL2 isn't shipping until well after christmas now due to 1/3rd the code of the game being stolen. How does copyrighted code being stolen translate into a huge delay after they already delayed the game? Sounds more and more like the game never was ready for Sept. 30th to begin with, then with Steam going tits up that pushes it back further as it can't be sold in one format without steam, and can't be played online at all until steam is working.

Man I'd hate to have been the sucker who preordered that one, next thing you know, it'll be like Duke Nukem forever at this rate.

Funkodrom
08-10-2003, 09:22:32
Originally posted by Darkstar
Funko... yep. But it's where all game companies WANT to be... steady money for doing almost no work. Imagine if Eidos could have ginked it so that to play Champ Man, you had to SUBSCRIBE for $10 a month? And if you stopped, boom! No more gaming!

Fair enough but if the customers don't want it then tough shit.

On the plus side at least they have to make games that people want to play. Maybe I can get Half Life, complete it in a month and get the game for $10.

Venom
08-10-2003, 12:09:32
I'm sure they'll set up a 4 month minimum subscription time.

Funkodrom
08-10-2003, 12:36:16
They can bite my shiny metal asshat then.

Harry Seldon
08-10-2003, 12:52:12
You know, if people would quit paying to play games they'd have to find a different way to do it. Everquest is one thing, but HL? I wish I could find somebody to pay me to sleep all day and watch TV, too.

Venom
08-10-2003, 13:16:45
I've been looking for that job all my life. So far the closest thing I came up with was Lab Rat.

Greg W
08-10-2003, 13:43:43
Heh, rumours are now pointing at a possible April release, with the recent theft of the source code... :bash:

Venom
08-10-2003, 13:59:00
So my headline was prophetic. Half a year away indeed.

Harry Seldon
08-10-2003, 18:08:42
I wonder if they'll try to bang it out quicker in order to beat the cheat or if they'll hold on to it to rearrange the code enough that the leak won't matter as much.

Venom
08-10-2003, 18:12:24
They're going to rearrange the hell out of it I bet. Gamespy has an article on it, and apparently the game is being floated around already using E3 levels.

http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/fullstory.asp?id=5363

Lazarus and the Gimp
08-10-2003, 19:33:58
Anybody played it yet?

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
08-10-2003, 20:07:30
Originally posted by Venom
I've been looking for that job all my life. So far the closest thing I came up with was Lab Rat.

You need a governement job. There's a bloke here that does bugger all and watches soaps on the big screen projector in our board room.

Sean
08-10-2003, 20:12:29
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Anybody played it yet?
What, using the leaked source code? Without maps, models, and sounds?

No longer Trippin
08-10-2003, 20:20:06
Well they got a few maps, the models, and some sounds. There is a version floating around that is using the bit of code they stole along with stolen graphics which was released late last night. So there is more than the E3 version which I haven't heard being released.

Valve only said 1/3rd of the source was stolen, sounds like more than that if they already have a "beta" of sorts out with a few levels.

Venom
08-10-2003, 20:21:35
Valve is way full shit about 1/3 if they're holding it back to april and there's a beta of the game out there.

No longer Trippin
09-10-2003, 00:13:49
Deleted as I found something nicer below when surfing around and it seems to paint a nice clear picture straight from the hacker.

No longer Trippin
09-10-2003, 00:40:26
Just had to post this. Taken from www.planethalflife.com


I'm not sure if it's really a great idea to post this, but "Anonymous Leaker" -- the guy who is apparently responsible for releasing the slightly playable pre-Alphaish version of HL2 which is unfortunately in circulation -- has released a statement of sorts. Here's a snip:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all those saying HL2 was delayed because of the hacking action, ill just remind you that what was leaked is what Valve has, nothing more and nothing less, so its pretty good to understand it wasnt finished yet.
Also I'd like to point out the E3 [demo] was one big fake by Valve. Ever tried to kill that soldier in physicstown ? Notice the door will still get kicked ? No scripted sequences ?

To everyone saying this is no Beta: I'd like to point out that THIS is what you wanted Valve to release on 9/30/03, theres no such thing as a much better release in Valves network!

To Valve: I suggest you stop lying to your customers about how much was stolen/compromised, or I'll have to release everything just to prove my point. And you know what you got, as I do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yikes. WARNING, BRIEF EDITORIALIZING AHEAD!
I'm not going to sit here and say I completely agree with Valve's policies, because I've criticized them in the past regarding how they handled the original release date delay announcement, among other things. And judging by what this guy says about the status of the game and professional game developer's analysis of what has leaked so far, it does seem pretty clear that the game isn't really that close to being done and hasn't even reached solid Beta status.

If this assessment is true, that would contradict a whole bunch of things Valve has said in the past, and make their behavior regarding the whole 9/30 release date drama even more questionable. But even so, that doesn't give "Anonymous Leaker" the right to help distribute stolen property. Leaking pre-release content like this hurts the fans, it hurts Valve, and it only serves to cause further delays in Half-Life 2's development.

Again, we encourage you to steer clear of all this junky leaked content. Don't support the actions of retarded, lonely, socially inept children who want to be big shots on IRC.


Well take it for what you want to I suppose, but it's not a good sign since it seems to be true in several ways. If Valve doesn't change it's statement, well I'm sure we'll see everything from HL2 and Steam up on the net if it is the guy.

Venom
09-10-2003, 00:52:06
I guess he's seen it and it was legitimately not completed. Interesting stuff.

Venom
09-10-2003, 01:55:15
I just read a similar statement elsewhere where the Leaker said he was going to release everything. We might be watching the destruction of one of the most highly anticipated games of all time.

No longer Trippin
09-10-2003, 06:06:15
I read some comments from the site from fanboys - they are saying since it is the Source engine this hacker who got through all this stuff, had a custom written keylogger and d/led GIGs of data without their knowledge didn't realize that Source stores everything in a database - so they are dreaming that this guy just got in a mistook that info as useless info yet grabbed the other stuff as it was easier to find (but it still uses source, so it still uses a database). I think someone who's that good, and was that involved with Valve (for a month) would know how Source works since it was released publicly how it works. The fanboys are dreaming otherwise and are still ready to shell out money for HL2. Me, screw it. If they would have said, hey, we are far from fucking done, look till later, then I'd be okay, but don't swear up and down on a date that you know is impossible even till the last minute only to pull out (I think they were inking the deal with ATI at the time for selling HL2 with their new cards most likely, so hence why he said it). There is to be a review in next months game mag PC Zone or something I heard, but it's common for them to get the whole machine shipped to them with the game installed and tweaked to run on it - and they review betas and such all the time. My guess is that review will be of a highly optimized alpha that looks better than it truly is - unless the reviewer states he installed it on his machine without Valve oversite, the review won't be worth the paper it is printed on at this moment IMO knowing how developers love to send machines designed to run special copies of the game.

Darkstar
09-10-2003, 20:37:58
News.Com ran a spot on this. According to what Valve told them, ALL their source trees were stolen. Every single bit of it... and what's out there is what they have in the shop.

He didn't steal source files... he duped their Source Control. All branches. All art. Every bit of it... and he got the stuff they licensed from other people. As well as the entire source for Steam, for instance.

Now, that's how you crack a shop. You rip their Source Controls.

So... if what's on the Net is really what Valve had, then the delay isn't because they just lost everything... it's because they aren't close to ready.

I'm inclined to believe they lost all their source, because they've been throwing around so many different figures from "a single file" to "half" to "one third". That tells me that they don't know or want to cover it up. If they have taken the time to review their data logs, then they know precisely what was stolen... which leads me to believe they are spinning... Heck, they wouldn't have even mentioned it, I'm sure, unless they got tipped (and verified for themselves) their source was showing up on the Net.

Note: Gamespot had a bit where Valve was claiming only 1/3 of their source to HL2 was stolen, but that they stole all the source code of Steam, and that the HL2 code "probably" contained Havok code... Now, if you KNOW what code was stolen, then you know what code that included... you can check your source, or, if that was deleted by the crooks, you can check your offline archives. So there should be ZERO guesswork involved in what was in what file. Guesswork is only around when you haven't checked your logs out to see what was accessed, and what was copied. Therefore, either Mr. Project Lead was spinning, or they don't really know what is in their code. My CorpoBS detector says: Spin.

King_Ghidra@home
09-10-2003, 20:51:06
Also I'd like to point out the E3 [demo] was one big fake by Valve. Ever tried to kill that soldier in physicstown ? Notice the door will still get kicked ? No scripted sequences ?

This is the bit that scares me. When i saw the E3 demo, my cowies were saying 'oh that bit where he knocks the pipe and then the pipe knocks the guys over was amazing', and i was saying well yeah that's great as long as that's improvised and being clever and not some crappy scripted bit , because that kind of thing has been done millions of times before.

Basically this clever physics engine is only interesting if it allows you to manipulate the world. Let's face it, if we haven't moved on from the days of unopenable 'doors' and bits of scenery that are destroyable one minute and invulnerable the next, then we haven't moved anyhwere.

Venom
09-10-2003, 22:04:15
I get the feeling that Valve was lying. This game was not ready to be released.

Darkstar
09-10-2003, 22:18:23
Well, to try and be fair, when you first get cracked, you often aren't sure the extent, so lots of people in your org say a lot of dumb things. However, unless your net is set to dump every log file to /dev/null, you generally have a lot of logs around to look through and find out how they got in, and what they did when they got in. So, Mr. Talker shouldn't be spouting off different figures everytime he talks about what was and was not copied.

The best answer when you don't know is to say "we are still investigating the extent at this time; however, at this point and time, it seems a more minor incident then rumors are indicating." Or some PR BS like that.

No longer Trippin
09-10-2003, 23:37:50
Well it would be okay to script an E3 demo in my opinion, as your only showcasing the engine - provided you can get the AI to do what your scripting (since you want a specific action to happen everytime else it could turn out lame with the AI noticing you and lying in wait behind the door so people think from the demo the AI is unresponsive. Scripting of demos is ok.

He has now released even more Valve material, but not to the general public from my understanding. This is NOT looking good for Valve.

Oh, you can now play CS 1.5 and 1.6 along with the original HL with the Source engine - apparently it is so heavily based on the original code that it is that backwards compatible for him to tinker a bit and release it. Don't know if that one was released publically, but it has been released to a couple news sites for sure.

This guy is truly ripping Valve a new asshole.

DS: Source is the engine which runs the game as well, so when one speaks of source, you need to remember that it can be twisted 6 ways to sunday since it's name is Source as well.

Darkstar
14-10-2003, 18:35:02
Bah. Who would be silly enough to name their engine Source?

They are getting ripped apart and laughed at in the Game Developer community as well. Apparently, they have just earned the Fuckwits of the Year in the Game Developers forums. It is pretty funny to see the people that were nice to so many developer and shops (when no one else was), rip Valve apart.

No longer Trippin
15-10-2003, 04:45:12
Well considering how fucked up they fucked everything up, I can't see why they wouldn't rip Valve a new one. Valve and Vivendi being so tightlipped about everything only gives the hackers claims credulence. Why delay a game till april if the code was stolen? I've heard plenty of that, even from online game mags and a few people who actually program for a living. Hell, the code is copyrighted and they have a ton of press right now, so releasing the game (since they did say it was finished) would be logical. The only way for them to have a reason not is that it either wasn't finished (I think the game had to have been close to it to get the ATI deal inked unless they really fucked over ATI in showcasing the game to them to ship with the XT cards - in which case I'd smell lawsuit if it was anybody but valve or id which did it. The other reason would be that the Source engine doesn't fucking work with Steam, and that seems to be the most likely culprit since CS 1.5 and 1.6 have some problems with it in some cases and Valve only tested HL2 with steam on the network steam was running on - when they did the internet test, it was down within an hour. Most are saying that pretty much shows they couldn't get it to work as if you get it up and running, your going to do more than an hour of testing. So Steam needs some recoding and so does HL2's Source engine to work with Steam for those who use the prescription package seems to be the most common theory floating around since Valve won't say a word about it. Hell, planethalflife is a bunch of hl diehards who refuse to face the facts if you read the boards. It's rather funny actually. A hacker that competent didn't know Source was a database type engine thus missed it when basically D/Ling Valves entire network, hence the shitty alpha floating around? I seriously doubt that.

Greg W
15-10-2003, 06:13:11
so releasing the game (since they did say it was finished) would be logicalDude, please point out wherever Valve, Vivendi or otherwise ever stated that the game was finished? I'll be very surprised if you can, cos they never did.

What I will possibly agree to is that Valve made a huge fucking miscalculation when they gave out a September release. I will even give you that a Christmas release was only potentially possible, and that they quite probably had a reasonable idea that it would slip beyond that.

However that does not make them out to be as bad as anybody is painting them to be. Public opinion being the opinion of the mob, and sensationalism being the way of the mob, that's how this thing is getting ridiculous.

No longer Trippin
15-10-2003, 06:22:47
Gabe Newell said countless times up to TWO weeks before the Sept 30th. release date that it was on track to be released on te 30th. Consequently about 2 weeks before the intended release, it was seen up on Steam (though locked so it couldn't be d/l'ed) - it was up for about an hour and they took it down. He conly commented that it was up for testing purposes and didn't make any remarks as to that it would ship on the 30th and didn't make anymore remarks for the 30th afterwards either. Kinda hard to find an entry now seeing as it's a month since he said that and gaming mags aren't the best with archiving. But if you kept up with it at all, you'd recall him saying this constantly and Vivendi saying it was targetted for the holidays. Now it is april for the release. Also why would Valve say that a december or november release is pushed back to april because the code was stolen (it is copyrighted anyhow, so they get revenue if anyone else uses it for an engine that is sold). They went from the 30th, to the holidays, to after the hack to april.

Greg W
15-10-2003, 09:06:42
Well, it was the publisher that suggested the April release date not long after it all came to light, not Valve, and Valve have made absolutely no comment on the release date. Personally I'd trust a publisher's release date estimate about as far as I could throw the entire coding team (all at the same time).

Valve have only said that they want to look into everything properly before they comment on a release date (or much else for that matter).

And yeah, they may have said that it was on target for a Sept 30 release date. I bever ever believe a release date until a game has gonegold. Maybe something came up that we're just not aware of that massively setback a possible release. Maybe Steam is just so FUBAR that the publisher told them to delay the game until Steam is fixed 100%. Maybe it wa sin fact the Steam test that fucked the whole dates up.

I just refuse to completely crucify them when we obviously don't know the whole story. And I take anything that the hacker says with a huge grain of salt.

Darkstar
15-10-2003, 17:36:35
Eh. If I don't know the cracker, I won't believe them. Any hacker that talks isn't smart or isn't the guy that did the crack. Dumb guys occasionally do stumble on the truth (hey, look at me ;) ), but this guy showing off the code isn't someone I'd want to know. Since this was publicized, it's guaranteed that the FBI and others are closing in on him.

However, the developers piling on, that's something else. Those guys didn't pick on Derek Smart (more then a snide comment or two) when the world was dog piling Smart. They didn't say anything about so many "scandals" (like Civ3 MP being broken out as a pay for play patch, and then not being real "MP", just a patch for the SP). But this? They are dog piling it. That tells me that the gals and guys that do this for a living, that know that their next job might be with or for those people, think its such utter BS that even the most rabid fan boy is going to see through it quickly, and they need to come clean and stop making all developers look like super-morons living off Venom butt cheese.

No longer Trippin
15-10-2003, 20:31:40
Valve was the one that said they were going to have to push the release date back due to the hacker's code theft. Vivendi just said when. I think it was a kid that knew his shit that did it, just that he doesn't know to shut up.

Now you concede the 30th release date, but you don't believe it, even when it is said TWO weeks before the intended release? Hell, most games are about to be sent off to be stamped and boxed around that time, thus the developers know if it works or doesn't. Valve was in negotiations with ATI at the time for the card bundling coincidently. After the deal was inked was when Gabe actually acknowledged it needed to be pushed back. Sounds like they cared more about cash from ATI then they did about the fanbase that is so fanatical. What is ATI supposed to do now, delay the card - give a little coupon for a free game? Not nearly the same as getting the game. Hopefully ATI can wiggle out the deal if Valve is infact that far behind as they've strung together a ton of successes only to have this group of egotistical assholes drag them into a mess. Next year around the end of Q1 to mid Q2 they are due to release their next core, an 8 piped revised 9600 core most likely since it is their only chip on the .13 micron die, the 9800 is on the .15 as it's just a slightly revamped 9700 Pro which is also on the same die (hence the high heat generated by them), thus it was cheaper and smarter to test the new process on a 55 million transistor chip than one with 110 million transistors. So holding the XT back isn't an option.

Greg W
16-10-2003, 01:50:41
FYI, an interesting quote from Halflife.org.“ValvE lied to us”

I don’t ever remember anyone from ValvE making any official statements on or near 30 September that the game was nearly ready to be shipped.Personally, I really wasn't following all the hoopla regarding release dates to closely, so I can't be sure one way or the other what they did or didn't say. But that seems to directly contradict what you suggest Trip.

Would be interested in seeing if you can drag up these statements from two weeks beforehand that it was ready to ship.

Greg W
16-10-2003, 02:11:51
Heh heh, I do like this picture though.
http://www.auspantheon.com/rechl2art/security.jpg

No longer Trippin
16-10-2003, 15:59:17
As you said, you weren't following the release date, I happened to know plenty of people who were, I was following it a bit and followed a few links to INTERVIEWS sites had conducted with Gabe because of Vivendi saying holidays and Gabe would say that Vivendi has no control over the release (which is true for them as they are a large dev. house) and that they still on track to release the game Sept. 30th. Why do you think Steam came out so soon? Certainly not to appease players who've already have CS (as it is pissing quite a few off, some couldn't even get it to INSTALL) as they've made all the money they can off them until HL2 comes out. It was to test Steam, and Steam wasn't testing well, then they tested HL2 outside the network that runs steam and found out that HL2 isn't working well with Steam either - else their test wouldn't have lasted just an hour - as Gabe even said in a release to a site that they were testing HL2 and some might have seen it up while they were testing it - but people only saw it up for little over an hour.