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paiktis22
17-09-2003, 18:08:35
Went to the video store asked for Solaris (meaning of course the new version) and they gave me the old one. I must really change videoclub those folks are a bit behind the times and shrewd merchants. Anyway I realized it after I got out the door and I thought why not. Some obervations:

_ Those incomprehensible cyrilic characters at the beggining and the CCCP logo were cool.

_The film is sloooow. But instead of letting this put you off you should maybe simply view it as an alternative cinematographic style aimed to provide profound immersion. Eventually though I fell asleep (from too much immersion I guess) so I have only seen half of it.

It seems real hardcore science fiction and contains phrases never heard before such as (when the captain was explaining what he had saw and the others were trying to see if what he saw were mere hallucinations): "the matter around the planet could be provoking spontaneous thought generation directly into the brain tissue".

There's no music for most of the first part, something that immediately strikes you as odd and the scenery is very spartan (although I don't know when it was made to compare) but did the job. The acting is very good.

Scabrous Birdseed
17-09-2003, 18:27:17
It's much, much better than the new version. In every way. I love the "driving through futuristic city" (actually Tokyo) scene, and the cinematography in general.

BigGameHunter
17-09-2003, 20:28:06
I thought the new one was pretty good, actually, but I need to see the original now.
Was this all based on a book? If so, I may have to get that as well.
Clooney wasn't completely intolerable in the second one.

Scabrous Birdseed
17-09-2003, 20:39:51
It was, by Stanislaw Lem.

Darkstar
17-09-2003, 21:20:53
:lol:

the matter around the planet could be provoking spontaneous thought generation directly into the brain tissue

So... it's making people THINK? Oh, the horror! Those poor TV raised people must have been seriously freaking out. Actually thinking! :lol:

Sean
17-09-2003, 21:40:40
You can get the book in the UK from http://www.thebookplace.co.uk/ and seemingly nowhere else.

paiktis22
17-09-2003, 22:32:43
Originally posted by Darkstar
:lol:



So... it's making people THINK? Oh, the horror! Those poor TV raised people must have been seriously freaking out. Actually thinking! :lol:

Maybe the translation isn't adequate, I don't remember the wording exactly either. It meant that the matter around the planet could generate by itself thought directly on the brain cells. As something independent and definitely not volunterary by the person, something completely from the outside. I thought the idea of outside creation and projection of such an abstract concept as thought directly to the human brain was very sci-fi. Again maybe I don't do it justice with my translation, I don't recall the exact phrasing either. But in the whole context it was very revolutionary, as an idea and was presented very well.

Darkstar
17-09-2003, 23:15:08
You mean, it was causing hallucinations? How is that SF? That's so old school and over used... heck, Star Trek TOS had a couple of those, and NG had what... a dozen? two dozen?

I liked your phrasing. Something causing people to think. Very funny. Maybe it would work on Lurker? ;)

paiktis22
18-09-2003, 00:58:41
Again you don't get it :)

Thought, as something independent, not your own, moprhing and being created by afar directly into your brain cells.

Anyway, I saw the rest of the movie. It has got to be some of the greatest acting ever, at least on a science fiction film. The end left me a bit dissapointed -could be because I didn't pay too much attention at the beggining - and it could use a little speed up IMO. The atmosphere would have been even more captivating. The acting was really awesome.
Recommended but only if you're in the right state of mind: relaxed and not preoccupied. This film will not grasp you by the throat and force you to see it, it's not a videoclip, you have to make the effort.

Scabrous Birdseed
18-09-2003, 07:20:57
I saw it in a similar way to you (first half up to the arrival of the visitor, then the whole thing) and I did think the bit from then to the floating library section (which was great) wasn't nearly as atmospheric as the rest.

Soderbergh's Solaris (rightly) focuses specifically on this section which in theory could be the most interesting. Not that he succeeds in making it so.

I wrote a review of (Soderbergh's) Solaris the other month, unfortunately I've only got it in PDF format. http://www.snapcase.f2s.com/Johan1.pdf

paiktis22
18-09-2003, 21:45:46
Nicely written.
But that's all I can say since I haven't yet seen the new version.

Bob
19-09-2003, 10:53:02
Tarkovsky is great. "Stalker" is even better, based on a Strugatskys book. Maybe even "slower"

Darkstar
19-09-2003, 16:43:44
Originally posted by paiktis22
Again you don't get it :)

Thought, as something independent, not your own, moprhing and being created by afar directly into your brain cells.

Nothing new there.

Look, it's either telepathy (the broadcasting of thoughts from exterior sources into your brain), or its hallucinations (brain is generating random thoughts/imaginings that are adnormal).

If something is broadcasting thoughts, that's telepathy. If you are having random thoughts and images that are not part of your normal thinking, that's hallucinations. And yes, telepathy would be halluncinations, but we consider it special since there is an implied purpose of communication included in telepathy, wherein you just hallucinating, that's considered mental illness.

Scabrous Birdseed
20-09-2003, 16:55:43
What the planet was doing was harvesting memories and physically recreating them. Possibly done "before" but probably not before 1961.

paiktis22
20-09-2003, 22:56:45
Yes. I mentioned the beggining where they were still guessing.

Telepathy transmits thought though doesn't it? Actually if I may be a balls breaking idiot it literally means "feeling from a far".

The initial hypothesis in the film (not what was finally proven) was that of thought created as you would have an electric field or something as a separate entity created by the matter of the planet. Imagine thought being able to exist "by itself" alone outside and then planted to the brain cells.

Resource Consumer
26-09-2003, 15:17:30
es, agree with both Bob and Scabby. The old Solaris has much more humanity than the cold new version.

But, also, Stalker is great as is Mirror.

- Big Tarkovsky fan -

MoSe
27-09-2003, 13:01:57
Originally posted by Bob
Tarkovsky is great. "Stalker" is even better, based on a Strugatskys book. Maybe even "slower"

:amazed:
I never imagined Bob could have a soul.
Then I realised he paints inspired watercolours. And now the above...

Tarkovskij.
Lem.
Masters.

Too bad it's passed so many years since when I watched 120 movies per year, seeking classic and "d'essai" ones.
The same for SciFi reading.

So I only have distant memories about Tarkovskij movies, and Lem's books (which are still in front of me on on the shelf behind the PC where I'm writing now @home)

I retained the feeling tho that Solaris book was MUCH weirder thatn the movie. I thought it was quite apart from any scifi I ever read.

Besides Solaris, I have Lem's "Back from the Universe" and "The Inquiry". Mind, these are my translation of italian titles, I know nothing of english titles. Oh, of course I can give you the orignial ones if you want: they're "Powrót z gwiazd" and "Sledztwo" respectively :D

Apart Stalker (which movie was one of the rare cases it might have been even better than the book), I also have read a Strugatskij novel (The Time Wanderers) and some short stories found in russian and eastern scifi antologies.
I barely rememebr anything, but I recall I liked them a lot, they were different both from the classic '40s-'50s US-based and from the new trends (I mean the new trends of 20 years ago, that is §:cute: )


hhhmmmmmm... I might have just found out what I will (re)read next, after I'll have finished Alex Zanardi's book...

MoSe
27-09-2003, 13:06:54
DS, you mean don't have read/seen Solaris???

Did NASA dissuade you from doing it, in the light of competition with USSR and the eastern block????

Darkstar
30-09-2003, 20:13:00
Nope. But after all this talk in the thread, I'll look for the original movie, and book. Thanks!

MoSe
01-10-2003, 09:01:01
Beware, at some points it was more like reading an essay than a novel tho ;)

Vincent
11-10-2003, 08:38:52
Lem wrote a lot of good stories and books, but also some very big and boring stories. I like his older works better, because the focus is more on the characters then on social theories. I always found "Return From the Stars" very moving.

Vincent
11-10-2003, 08:40:31
Originally posted by MoSe
:amazed:
I never imagined Bob could have a soul.
Maybe too much of it :(