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View Full Version : Rock & Roll is dead.


paiktis22
30-08-2003, 10:30:38
Is there any band worth listening to anymore? Don't they all sound the same?
Now am I going to be bombarded with bands I never heard about and according to the author they are great?
Dance music! That's where it's at! Trance preferably. Bam, bam, bam non stop. The ripples of chromatic sonar flunctuations create the musical vortex of today's phantasm realities. All else is shite. Or heard of before. Some greek "artful" songs are also nice but propably because of the differantiation factor primarely.
OK I admit that maybe in some obscure record shop lay dusty wonders of rock'n' roll innovation. But what about what we hear every day from radio and TV. There is nothing there. I don't think it used to be like that. :shoot: :bounce:

Funkodrom
30-08-2003, 10:31:39
The Mars Volta!

Scabrous Birdseed
30-08-2003, 12:11:51
Typical symptom of you getting old, I'd say. ;)

For me, your generation in the early nineties produced nearly nothing of any value whatsoever, whereas this century so far is absolutely, unquestionably one of the truly great decades in music, rivalled only by the sixties IMO. Urban music is in a healthier state than ever, Jamaica is producing wonderful stuff yet again, Rock is back after the horrible, horrible 1990s, Indie is finally dying off, and there's a constant stream of great new artists and trends that I love.

paiktis22
30-08-2003, 12:52:39
It could be that I'm getting old. (reading that while listening to Out of Time certaintly made than impression ;) ) Or it could be that rock music has indeed been "exhausted". Big words I know. But it all feels like it's been done before, better and original. Of course every one can make a rock song that believes is the miracle-weaving, raw, quandressential musical manifestation of his soul. But to most of the others it will propably sound the same. I'm talking about rock music.

About rock and roll that breathes and lives. Certaintly there was the "swing" and a lot of other musical genres who still exist but as museum artifacts to be ressurected every now and then and give some of their past glory back. But there are not "here, now". They can't evolve anymore, they are exhausted as musical movements and that's why they stopped. Of course there will always be the new "easy - listening" rock song, the equivalant of a Chistina Aguilierea (or whatever) song. And I suppose there will still be gems being made but under general obscurity and disinterest.

I think that the rock and roll of today is dance music. Wild, unhintered and in perpetual motion and evolution. Like rock once was.
(I really liked the '90s BTW ;) )

I completely agree with you that urban music is in a very good state but I think it has moved to a different level.

Debaser
30-08-2003, 13:06:39
Originally posted by paiktis22
But it all feels like it's been done before, better and original. .......They can't evolve anymore, they are exhausted as musical movements and that's why they stopped.

I'll repeat what Mike said, only this time slowly and more clearly:-

Listen to THE MARS VOLTA.

paiktis22
30-08-2003, 13:10:00
I have already downloaded This Apparatus must be unearthed(?) as a sample, it didn't make an impression...

Debaser
30-08-2003, 13:15:25
You need to listen to the whole album really, but try downloading "Cicatriz Esp" for 12 minutes of Santana-esque prog/jazz wankery. "Intertiatic Esp" is very good too.

*End Is Forever*
30-08-2003, 13:19:15
Prog/jazz wankery doesn't sound very rock n roll...

Debaser
30-08-2003, 13:25:06
True, but these dudes used to be in At The Drive In. Lets not forget how rock n roll they can be when they want to.

Scabrous Birdseed
30-08-2003, 13:41:25
To me the "new rock 'n' roll" are all of the energetic, rhythm-and-groove-oriented musical styles that are growing up around the world. Not necessarily Dance music, I find it a bit too hookless and bizarrely difficult to dance to, but Dancefloor Hip-Hop, Dirty South, Crunk, Screw, Ghetto-Tech from the United States, Dancehall from Jamaica, Soca from the english-speaking caribbean, Zouk from the french-speaking caribbean, Carioca Funk from Brazil, Bhangra from India/Britain, East and south african Hip-Hop variants, the more Urban-flavoured bits of Arabian pop and Turkpop, etc. etc. Breakneck innovation, loads of dirty, dirty grooves, Massively fun.

But I don't think the Old Rock'n'Roll is doing THAT badly- The last White Stripes album was brilliant, for instance.

paiktis22
30-08-2003, 17:35:48
Funny that you should mention The White Stripes. I was listening to You're Pretty Good Looking and all those sparkles of microscopic innovation. It got old very soon. So did Seven Nation Army. I doubt they have, or anyone has anymore, what it takes to "save rock'n'roll" (sic).

When I talk about dance music, a broad enough statement, I mean particularly the DJ up on his decks mixing records and music to such an extend that it is something very unique and different enough to be personal. Maybe it is the equivalant of a "rocker" taking his guitar and start jamming. It is not static and secluded. It is forming right there in front of your eyes and may well be an one-time thing. So it also depends heavily upon who does the mixing and it is his soul on the table, changing all the time. It does have very intoxicating rythmes on a good night.


I don't know most of what you refered to, besides Arabian and Turkpop. I imagine they must be pretty close to some of the Greek ones, only a bit heavier. Perhaps you'll find that after a while they are all the same and a very cheap rip-off of long gone songs (which were indeed spectacular when left to their own devices) mixed with "western" major scales, then added beat and speed. They all basically have one standard "oriental" musical rythm backbone. Think belly dance music and you'll get the idea. Intoxicating, in itself. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing but the ones I know about are so fake, you don't know wether to laugh or get an allergic rush. They are the "other side" of the "artful" songs I talked about in my first post. They both have the same "oriental" roots (actually purely balkan) going back to the major urban centers of western Asia Minor. The then "upper class", mainly Greeks and Armenians, started giving birth to a veritable new urban music written in such a way that it could accomodate the artistic demands of the most diverse elements. Turkish Greek and Armenian folklore, French melodies, Venecian sonatas, older 12-scale Greek music and whatever population lived in those centers at that time.

As an example take Misirlou. The instrumental soundtrack of Pulp Fiction. The song was written in the depths of time in the 1920's, by Roumbatis propably, about a rather wild girl in a little greek village which was called Misirlou, near Smyrna, now Izmir. The original song, which was a rebetiko (you can still tell by the frequent and sharp strockings of the strings even on an electric guitar) had lyrics and everything. It has been covered hundrends of times and unknownigly is the most known rebetiko song in the US.

Basically this is the source of most turkpop, greekpop, and balkanpop in general (in Serbia for example they are called "Turbo - Pop"). Which could have been evolved into something else. However, IMHO, the introduction of major scales over minor as well as the added beat and speed sound too "artificially" imposed. The original ones were better, more true. And they were rebetika. The new ones aren't. You can't say I say this because I'm getting old, I wasn't even born when they appeared for the first time ;) But, if we are talking about the same thing, you got it right, they derive from the first authentic 20th century "urban" musical movements of the region.

paiktis22
30-08-2003, 17:50:54
An example of succesful "transfiguration" of, traditional this time - not urban, music with western rock tradition is System of A Down IMHO. Especially songs like "Innervision". When I listened to it for the first time i went "bam is this a greek demotiko song? No, it is actually based on the Armenian provencial "lamentation songs" melodies. Yet major scales don't hurt those particular songs because they have been incorporated to the music from a within evolution not superimposed. Again, if we are talking about the same thing. You could well have something different in your mind.

Scabrous Birdseed
30-08-2003, 18:08:22
Of course some of the "flavour" will have travelled over the decades, but I think there's enough innovation to motivate the fountain of creativity label. I'm not that familiar with Arabian Pop either (although I'm trying to come up to speed, there's a set of CDs called Re:Orient Club 1, 2, 3 that are excellent from what I've heard), but take Bhangra, which is bascially oriental pop approached from the other side ie. northern India. It's got a reasonably stylised form of singing and maybe one or two essential instruments (Dhol, Tablas, both types of drum). After that, it's completely and utterly free- In my collection I've got eighties synth-Bhangra, neo-soul Bhangra, Garage Bhangra, Booty Bass Bhangra, Hip-Hop Bhagra (as per Mundian To Bach Ke, which I'm sure you've heard), Bollywood Bhangra, Ragga Bhangra, ever Roots Reggae Bhagra! Sure, you might claim that they're all just tacking Bhangra on top of existing music, but in every case the other music is subsumed and interlaced, creating a unique beat and a unique flavour. The creative act is really no different from when Missy borrowed a slight Bhangra touch for Get Ur Freak On... Combination can also be a highly artistic skill.

And these, of course, are the ones that still have tradition-bound pretensions. Soca, Dancehall, Carioca Funk etc. are entirely new, borrowing from each other and Hip-Hop and Bass and their predecessors but mostly just creating original content for themselves. I think it's great fun. It's like a great Urban world with different groups creating new content that the other groups then borrow, subsume, and change... Timbaland borrowing from the Middle East, Soca borrowing from Timbaland, Dancehall borrowing from Soca, Garage borrowing from Dancehall, Bhangra borrowing from Garage, the Middle East borrowing from Bhangra...

paiktis22
30-08-2003, 19:35:00
I completely agree about the brilliance of "exchangeability" of different genres. The more "un-sacred" the mix the better. I suppose I'm talking more of the "Madonnas" of the abovementioned genres and not the "Patti Smiths". Unfortunately the "Madonnas" make up for 90% of that type of music in its places of origin.

Debaser, thanks about the suggestions, I'll try to listen to them. But as EiF said, if it's prog/jazz, it isn't Rock'n' Roll ;)
As said I'm sure there are still brilliant bands out there. But I think that they/R'n'R are no longer the "norm", have the same wide exposure as before. For good reason if they are only few of them. I guess that's the main point of what I'm trying to say.

Asher
31-08-2003, 06:45:52
The problem with this thread is you (and Snapcase) have shite taste in music. :D

The rock so far this decade has been mediocre at best. The White Stripes seemed brilliant at first, but everyone gets tired of their music very fast. It's because there's no depth.

The 90s were great for rock and alternative, my bread and butter. :)

Lazarus and the Gimp
31-08-2003, 07:44:10
In the past few weeks, I've heard several things I thought were "new" and exciting- a load of stuff on a Rocket Girl sampler and a Nurse With Wound retrospective. These weren't drawing on traditional music forms for novelty but were drawing out the possibilities of tones, timbres and space in edits.

The inventive underground is not dead. In the 1990's "indie" went mainstream, but that just means that the real underground acts get pushed further into isolation, and quietly develop in their own weird way. The good stuff is out there, but you've got to look for it.

Sean
31-08-2003, 13:14:15
If the kids in some third-world country aren’t dancing to it, it’s not worth listening to.

Funkodrom
31-08-2003, 14:20:10
They are probably dancing to Justin Timberlake anyway. :)

Scabrous Birdseed
31-08-2003, 17:27:32
So? I like Justin Timberlake. ;)